Dupree and DT Join - BG still being evaluated [merged thread]

[hoophuskee]

You are kidding right. I love sarcasm.

You're kidding right? You didn't see the Canada game did you? And you seriously expect her defense to have an impact on the more experienced pros? I'm all for homerism but . .

IMO if Steph gets in it's because of the package of her size and ability to pass the ball and because of a UCONN connection of famiiarity (which the connection is NOT a bad thing.). Not because of her "stellar" defense. Of which I don't think that supercedes Lavender at all. Of course Im notthere in pratcces nor as stated above not certain Lavender can shoot well but it seems like she can.

 

[phil sampieri]

You're kidding right? You didn't see the Canada game did you? And you seriously expect her defense to have an impact on the more experienced pros? I'm all for homerism but . .

IMO if Steph gets in it's because of the package of her size and ability to pass the ball and because of a UCONN connection of famiiarity (which the connection is NOT a bad thing.). Not because of her "stellar" defense. Of which I don't think that supercedes Lavender at all. Of course Im notthere in pratcces nor as stated above not certain Lavender can shoot well but it seems like she can.

Wow, didn't Stef win some sort of award this past year for her defense ? She's not Griner (who is ?) but not like you painted her. Not a homer's opinion either

 

[hoophuskee]

Come on- college and pros are completely different. Diggins has a terrible year in pros her 1st year overall. Why? The game is different.

And was she really "the number 1 defensive player" in wcbb? Because the vote says so? She's really better than expereinced pros such as Lavendar that competed agaisnt and did well vs other pros overseas?

 

[Icebear]

Nope, I watched Lavender for 4 years in the Big 10 and was sadly disappointed by her performance every time. BTW, it isn't Steph. You clearly were watching the wrong player if she was called Steph.

 

[alexrgct]

All I know is is give my right arm to see Sue, Maya, DT, Stewie, and Tina, on the court at the same time. That's the all-time UConn starting five once Breanna is done!

 

[VAMike23]

All I know is is give my right arm to see Sue, Maya, DT, Stewie, and Tina, on the court at the same time. That's the all-time UConn starting five once Breanna is done!

Good point - that would be amazing to see ! Never can be sure if Sue has a couple more USABB go 'rounds in her or if this is her last one. Could be the one and only time for this Fearsome Fivesome! (Hopefully not)

 

[geneticrex]

Lavendar can hit the 15-18 footer the little I saw of her. Which is part of the reason why I don't see Steph beating her out. I could be wrong but the little I saw from LA she showed she could hit outside shots a bit. And if she was as good as she was in Europe, I suspect she was also hitting them there. I could be wrong - maybe some people that watched her in LA could advise.

Oh yeah?!?!?!?!?

Well Dolson can hit the 16-19 footer.

 

[hoophuskee]

Nope, I watched Lavender for 4 years in the Big 10 and was sadly disappointed by her performance every time. BTW, it isn't Steph. You clearly were watching the wrong player if she was called Steph.

You are talking about COLLEGE. COLLEGE. Her game has expanded- she can face the basket. Again as stated I didn't see a lot of LA (maybe someone elee has and can advise a different opinion) but she is different than the super-slow inside only player from Ohio State.

So you didn't watch the canada game?. And if you read the threads you read some quotes how the defenders blew by her, right? And if you watched the game you would have heard Carolyn Peck critiicze the lack of interior defense. While a knock on Tina too and on BS and a knock on Lavendar - she didn't get the minutes. But Dolson got some and was struggling. And in the few games I saw her at Washington - she wasn't a WNBA all-defender like we saw dominate the college game.

I just don't see what you see. You'll say "I know." But the player I saw at UCONN is like the frosh SD I saw at UCONN. Not a USA Olympian caliber player at this point in her rookie year.

 

[Icebear]

Exactly, Stef was no worse than Lavender and she offers more skills.

 

[hoophuskee]

Exactly, Stef was no worse than Lavender and she offers more skills.

We can agree to disagree on the importance of your definition of "skills" and if you have a certain definition/importance placed on athleticism and the importance of experience when it comes to both. IMO Lavender is the better player right now and can fit in well enough. I'd take her first.

 

[phil sampieri]

You are talking about COLLEGE. COLLEGE. Her game has expanded- she can face the basket. Again as stated I didn't see a lot of LA (maybe someone elee has and can advise a different opinion) but she is different than the super-slow inside only player from Ohio State.

So you didn't watch the canada game?. And if you read the threads you read some quotes how the defenders blew by her, right? And if you watched the game you would have heard Carolyn Peck critiicze the lack of interior defense. While a knock on Tina too and on BS and a knock on Lavendar - she didn't get the minutes. But Dolson got some and was struggling. And in the few games I saw her at Washington - she wasn't a WNBA all-defender like we saw dominate the college game.

I just don't see what you see. You'll say "I know." But the player I saw at UCONN is like the frosh SD I saw at UCONN. Not a USA Olympian caliber player at this point in her rookie year.

I was at the game and only once was it Stef's fault when the very tall very slender person she was guarding took her off the dribble. the other times she tried to help aqnd her man got free with no weak side help.

 

[geneticrex]

Either way, I think it would be a mistake to not take 2 legitimate post players and instead try to spread it out amongst the "4s".

 

[geneticrex]

I was at the game and only once was it Stef's fault when the very tall very slender person she was guarding took her off the dribble. the other times she tried to help aqnd her man got free with no weak side help.

Hey Phil, you wouldn't have happened to play baseball with a Mike Sciortino would ya have???

 

[easttexastrash]

No kidding. Really? That wasn't my point.

Here is her input: "she's good a load to handle in the paint." But I am guessing Geno is aware of that.

 

[easttexastrash]

Grrrr, I actually agree with you.

Shame on you!

 

[easttexastrash]

Lavendar can hit the 15-18 footer the little I saw of her. Which is part of the reason why I don't see Steph beating her out. I could be wrong but the little I saw from LA she showed she could hit outside shots a bit. And if she was as good as she was in Europe, I suspect she was also hitting them there. I could be wrong - maybe some people that watched her in LA could advise.

Lavender has a very nice shot from 15 to 20 feet. That is actually one of her strengths.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Cambage is not going to beat the USA by herself and I don't believe Australia will be that strong this year given Jackson's absence. People are touting Spain and France as the best of the rest.

To be fair, that was what people said about the 2012 Olympics, when Penny Taylor could not play due to injury. And that team led the U.S. at the half.

But yes, Australia will not beat the U.S. without Lauren Jackson, just like it would not have defeated the U.S. without Penny Taylor. Nevertheless, the Opals can make a game interesting, and Australia is a heavy favorite to earn a medal.

 

[easttexastrash]

I think Lavender vs Dolson is a moot point as I believe BG will be approved to travel before the WCs begin. She should be able to step right in and play without too much of an adjustment period.

 

[Vowelguy]

I think Lavender vs Dolson is a moot point as I believe BG will be approved.

Is it moot? I view BG as someone recovering from an injury and thus she could still get reinjured. If I were on the committee, I still think I'd want a backup.

 

[pap49cba]

To be fair, that was what people said about the 2012 Olympics, when Penny Taylor could not play due to injury. And that team led the U.S. at the half.

But yes, Australia will not beat the U.S. without Lauren Jackson, just like it would not have defeated the U.S. without Penny Taylor. Nevertheless, the Opals can make a game interesting, and Australia is a heavy favorite to earn a medal.

Not disagreeing as I don't follow the Opals but they recently lost a scrimmage to Canada. Don't know who played and who didn't. The USA did not lose to Canada even though DT and Dupree were not available.

 

[UcMiami]

Looking at stats from this year in the WNBA they are quite similar - the things that stand out to me (even when regularized to 36 minutes) is that Lavender scored about 50% more while shooting a 30 points higher and fouled significantly less - Dolson had about 0.5 assists and 0.5 rebounds more and about 1 block more per 36 minutes but also had just under 1 TO more.
Dolson was not a starter and Lavender was so presumably Lavender spent more of her time playing against other starters than Dolson did, and Dolson played in the Eastern conference which only had one team over .500 which presumably means the competition was weaker though overall the centers in the Eastern conference might be better?
I can't say either of them fills me with a lot of confidence should they need to play extended minutes against a good team. Thank goodness Charles is healthy and BG is still possible. I feel the same way about the competition for the young guard - I don't think any off them is really ready for USA basketball.
Of course Sue Bird in 2002 scored 4.3 ppg on 33% shooting, had 3 assists, 6 steals, and 7 rebounds in total over the seven games played. Of course by the 2004 Olympics she was doing much better at 2.9 ppg on 30% shooting with 8 assists, 2 steals, and 6 rebounds in total over the same seven game stretch! But DT made a bigger splash in her debut in 2004 - 8.5 ppg at 38% shooting with 8 assists, 7 steals, 24 rebounds, AND 3 blocks total over the seven games.
I just put those numbers up there to remind us all that even the current stars of USA basketball took a few years on the team to get going. If we are depending on our back-up center, fourth guard, or third forward to win the WC, then the team is already in trouble.

 

[Dickers]

No intention to screw up this excellent Stef v Lavender debate, but has anybody been able to confirm that ESPN 3 will stream the USA v Australia game tomorrow at 11:30 AM??

 

[Kibitzer]

Until this thread morphed into a Stef v. Lavender competition, it seemed tha Cambage was to be feared as the female reincarnation of Wilt or Kareem and some posters based their Boneyard projections of the USA roster with her as their focus.

In a different setting in an earlier era, Wilt and Kareem for all their 7'+ greatness, were beaten in NBA championship playoffs (best of seven) by teams with centers named Cowens and Russell, both about 4" shorter than their illustrious counterparts.

And long before auditioning for Secretary of State, Dennis Rodman outrebounded lots of taller guys.

My point? Ability to play team offense (fast break or half-court) and team defense overcomes size or scoring of any team with a couple stars of any size.

 

[UcMiami]

No intention to screw up this excellent Stef v Lavender debate, but has anybody been able to confirm that ESPN 3 will stream the USA v Australia game tomorrow at 11:30 AM??

Just checked ESPN3 and do not see anything listed for tomorrow.

 

[UcMiami]

Until this thread morphed into a Stef v. Lavender competition, it seemed tha Cambage was to be feared as the female reincarnation of Wilt or Kareem and some posters based their Boneyard projections of the USA roster with her as their focus.

In a different setting in an earlier era, Wilt and Kareem for all their 7'+ greatness, were beaten in NBA championship playoffs (best of seven) by teams with centers named Cowens and Russell, both about 4" shorter than their illustrious counterparts.

And long before auditioning for Secretary of State, Dennis Rodman outrebounded lots of taller guys.

My point? Ability to play team offense (fast break or half-court) and team defense overcomes size or scoring of any team with a couple stars of any size.

Good point - but Russell and Cowens were a lot stronger/heavier than say Bird or Havlicek who likely would have been overwhelmed by either Wilt or Kareem

 

[hoophuskee]

I was at the game and only once was it Stef's fault when the very tall very slender person she was guarding took her off the dribble. the other times she tried to help aqnd her man got free with no weak side help.

I don't agree with your take. I was watching the game -missed the 1sthalf ---and quite a bit what Carolyn Peck was talking in 2nd half was regarding the defense -was lack of interior defense. Anyone on the boneyard here that listened to the 2nd half couldattest to that. It sounds like what you're saying is - Dolson wasn't the problem it was everybody else." So the rookie got it all down, everyone else was messing up?

Nope - I don't see it that way. Secondly help and recover is also important. Bottomline Peck was saying our inside defense was the weaknest part - I didn't see great inside defense overall. And help and recover is also a key ingredient for "defense."

 

[VAMike23]

My point? Ability to play team offense (fast break or half-court) and team defense overcomes size or scoring of any team with a couple stars of any size.

I think that's generally true but it bears repeating that personnel can be key in particular matchups, as it was in the Olympics last time around. Putting the right body (Asjha Jones) on Cambage made a difference because AJ was able to do what was needed in the matchup against Cambage; namely, root her out of the post. It was a pretty simple equation. We got someone strong enough and experienced enough to do that (Tina also contributed a lot but AJ's contribution was decisive, IMO) and it wasn't so much of a defensive scheme or help defense that did the trick. Once Asjha got her away from the basket, she was less much less effective to begin with (go figure, she's 6'8") and also the rest of the defense had a better shot at giving help from that position. But the crucial 'chore' fell to the individual defender to get a tough job done.

My 2 cents only

 

[RadyLady]

Is it moot? I view BG as someone recovering from an injury and thus she could still get reinjured. If I were on the committee, I still think I'd want a backup.

Additionally when she gets in she's not having played with this group of players or under this coach, and not knowing the offensive sets and so forth and the defense that Geno asks for, she's got a bit of a learning curve ahead of her.

 

[UConnCat]

I think that's generally true but it bears repeating that personnel can be key in particular matchups, as it was in the Olympics last time around. Putting the right body (Asjha Jones) on Cambage made a difference because AJ was able to do what was needed in the matchup against Cambage; namely, root her out of the post. It was a pretty simple equation. We got someone strong enough and experienced enough to do that (Tina also contributed a lot but AJ's contribution was decisive, IMO) and it wasn't so much of a defensive scheme or help defense that did the trick. Once Asjha got her away from the basket, she was less much less effective to begin with (go figure, she's 6'8") and also the rest of the defense had a better shot at giving help from that position. But the crucial 'chore' fell to the individual defender to get a tough job done.

My 2 cents only

Actually, it was Tina who guarded Cambage; AJ guarded Lauren Jackson for the most part. I re-watched the game not too long ago. Cambage's ineffectiveness in the 2nd half (0 points) was a combination of fatigue and Tina putting her body on her before she could set up in the lane. AJ played 10 very effective minutes and contained LJ.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Tina has banged against Cambage, Stef and Jantel...I wonder what she's telling Geno?