Duke transfers - Azura Stevens, Angela Salvadores

[Kmoney]

Is it ethical for Dawn Staley to accept transfers from the players she coached for team USA?

I don't have a problem with it, but I can see where it could be called an unfair recruiting advantage. Maybe Vanderbilt will report it.

 

[CocoHusky]

You might be right w/ your measuring stick. And having won so many NC one can be forgiven for being giddy. I will take Geno at his words- Uconn makes it look easy, but it is very difficult to win. Were it not so you and I would be out there playing/coaching. CocoHusky, I think we are spoiled. Or, as the athletes say these days- we are just blessed (so the others must be sinners). I have no opinions regarding coach P. Most of what I have to say comes from statements about her throwing her players under the bus"-- not a strategy for improving team play/performance. Perhaps her paedogical skills are wanting. But, asking for her head when she consistently have her team in the top 10 and without the usual scandals might be unconvincing. Would we be asking for Geno's head (or his replacement) if the team drops out of the top 5 and not make the final 4 for a two seasons? I think we are so use to speaking from a position of dominance that we have forgotten that it is not reality. This is not an argument for settling for just anything.

Full disclosure: We are spoiled and we are probably all sinners too. I have very strong personal opinions (all negative) about coach JPM because I know players that have played for her and other players she has tried to recruit. JPM is incompetent enough that I have the luxury of putting those personal feelings aside to look strictly at her lack of results. Coach JPM is the poster child and proof positive of the Peter Principle. She reached her level of incompetence when she left the campus at Maine. That she has been able to cripple the program at Duke is because not enough people care about WCBB to demand higher standards-That hurts most of all.

 

[SCGamecock]

Is it ethical for Dawn Staley to accept transfers from the players she coached for team USA?

I don't have a problem with it, but I can see where it could be called an unfair recruiting advantage. Maybe Vanderbilt will report it.

Is it ethical when the senior women's national team practices at UCONN and is coached by Geno Auriemma? Is that a recruiting advantage?

Is it ethical when our Men's national soccer team practices/trials at Stanford? Is that a recruiting advantage for Stanford's soccer program?

I don't have a problem with either, but surely somebody probably does...

 

[CocoHusky]

Is it ethical when the senior women's national team practices at UCONN and is coached by Geno Auriemma? Is that a recruiting advantage?

Is it ethical when our Men's national soccer team practices/trials at Stanford? Is that a recruiting advantage for Stanford's soccer program?

I don't have a problem with either, but surely somebody probably does...

Not in relation to the National Team- Most NCAA players aren't contending for a spot and definitely not related to soccer-not my cup of team until World cup time but I'm really surprised this has not become more of an issue. The selection of national age group teams is almost always conducted during NCAA non-contact periods yet certain coaches are in Colorado during the team selection process and actually stay around to coach the teams. I'm sure the rule is no recruiting but I really surprised more schools aren't complaining. This past summer you had Cox ,undecided and still considering SC & Louisville, being coached by Dawn and Jeff Walz.

 

[Charliebball]

Is it ethical for Dawn Staley to accept transfers from the players she coached for team USA?

I don't have a problem with it, but I can see where it could be called an unfair recruiting advantage. Maybe Vanderbilt will report it.

I don't doubt for a second that coaching the best undeclared players in the country could be an advantage in recruiting. Has anyone ever proven it to be the case based on the coaches and where the players eventually landed? I'll leave that study to any of the more research oriented posters to conduct.

 

[Go/huskies]

If Rueck can land Ionescu (I think Oregon is the favorite), would be a big coup. Evina Westbrook would also be a key recruit (similar to Rebecca Lobo type recruit) if Oregon State wants to become a National power. Get back to the F4 with Westbrook/Ionescu, and that will show other CA kids that he is a good coach/can help them improve. What he has done with the recruits he has is pretty spectacular.

Ionescu and Westbrook are said to be a package deal, whoever get Ionescu will more then likly get Westbrook as well.

 

[ochoopsfan]

So maybe Duke won't convince him, and instead in 2-3 years he goes to another Pac-12 school with facilities et.al. By then, USC might be available again. Or my husband suggests Stanford when Tara retiring (while the rumor is that she has a successor on staff, who could compete with an accomplished head coach)...

Rueck is an OSU grad. His salary, with an anticipated raise probably makes him very well to do up there.
The Pac12 has 3 college town atmospheres in the conference(OU, OSU, and WSU---4 if you count Colorado in Boulder but it basically is a suburb of Denver)
Some kids who you recruit have no problem going to a college town, even with lousy but not horrid weather. I would rather go to school in Corvallis or Eugene than Minnesota. Rueck made Corvallis a place to be, if you want to be a team player. If you want the bigger city life there is LA, Nor Cal, Tempe, SLC, Tuscon or Seattle. to go too.

I think Kelly Graves at Oregon said he liked OU as it was a small town appeal, as Gonzaga(in Spokane) was prior. I am sure he got offers from bigger schools in bigger cities. Some people dont like or need the glitter of the big cities.

 

[SCGamecock]

Boulder is one of my favorite college towns in the world... I visited once during undergrad for a leadership conference at CU and never wanted to leave. I seriously considered transferring there for at least 2 months after....

 

[UcMiami]

Is it ethical when the senior women's national team practices at UCONN and is coached by Geno Auriemma? Is that a recruiting advantage?

Is it ethical when our Men's national soccer team practices/trials at Stanford? Is that a recruiting advantage for Stanford's soccer program?

I don't have a problem with either, but surely somebody probably does...

Does Geno, and before him Tara and others derive benefit from being NT coach in the 'publicity' sense both for him, and when the team comes to practice in CT for the school - yes, though I am not sure it is much of a boost to already lofty levels of attention that Uconn/Stanford/____ and Geno/Tara/____ already had. But there are no players involved with the USA NT that have college eligibility left so that moves the discussion away from the actual participants. (I know Stewart was involved prior to her senior year, but that is VERY rare.) (Not sure how it works with other sports which may have more college players.)

There have been at least questions raised about college coaches involved with lower level USA teams. I think there was at least some controversy involving Pat early in her career when two USA players transferred to TN a year after a USA basketball team involving her for example, and especially with the young U16 and U17 teams that include mostly players pre-college-commitment there may be some grayish areas of propriety and certainly a huge advantage in access. (I believe USA specifically moved away from college coaches with the youngest teams specifically for this reason but might have that wrong.)

With the increased transfer rates amongst starting players on college teams the college level USA teams may come under more scrutiny in terms of those grayish areas. It really is shocking to see starters transfer especially when not associated with coaching controversy/change. If it continues or increases the number of those players associated with recent USA basketball teams will also increase. And the associations with players and or coaches on other college teams will be noted. I posted about Collier and Danger being teammates with Azura, and Samuelson was training with them as well though didn't play. Someone else noted another player connection from USA basketball, and the obvious connection to the HC is also being mentioned. You can't escape those 'connections' and increased scrutiny.

Do I think Dawn made any inappropriate overtures - absolutely not, nor do I think any of the players did either. I don't think anybody expected Azura to leave Duke a year ago and I doubt she was even contemplating it herself. But I don't think scrutiny of behaviors is a bad thing either, and putting everyone on notice that if this transfer of great starting players continues, more scrutiny will be associated with USA basketball participation is good. USA depends on good will of everyone in the basketball community at all levels - the last thing it wants to be involved in is a recruiting/tampering situation.

And if Azura does decide on SC will her USA basketball experience have had an influence - surely (simply put, if she didn't like Dawn she would consider SC) but the most important reason may be proximity or academics or teammates or any number of other reasons. But none of that is a 'mark' against Dawn, just happenstance.

 

[UConnCat]

Ionescu and Westbrook are said to be a package deal, whoever get Ionescu will more then likly get Westbrook as well.

Where did you hear they are a package deal? Westbrook has had a few home visits lately from schools that are not among Ionescu's final 3 schools. Louisville and Tennessee coaches visited within the past 2 weeks and I think both Notre Dame and South Carolina visited before the NCAA tournament began

 

[j66kicker]

Boulder is one of my favorite college towns in the world... I visited once during undergrad for a leadership conference at CU and never wanted to leave. I seriously considered transferring there for at least 2 months after....

Agree - although Boulder is growing like crazy, it is a definite "college town" and very separate from Denver. I would also argue for Tucson as a PAC 12 "college town."

 

[jonson]

Rueck is an OSU grad. His salary, with an anticipated raise probably makes him very well to do up there.
The Pac12 has 3 college town atmospheres in the conference(OU, OSU, and WSU---4 if you count Colorado in Boulder but it basically is a suburb of Denver)
Some kids who you recruit have no problem going to a college town, even with lousy but not horrid weather. I would rather go to school in Corvallis or Eugene than Minnesota. Rueck made Corvallis a place to be, if you want to be a team player. If you want the bigger city life there is LA, Nor Cal, Tempe, SLC, Tuscon or Seattle. to go too.

I think Kelly Graves at Oregon said he liked OU as it was a small town appeal, as Gonzaga(in Spokane) was prior. I am sure he got offers from bigger schools in bigger cities. Some people dont like or need the glitter of the big cities.

Just as an FYI from Eugene, it's UO, not OU. The latter = Oklahoma University. Corvallis is a tough place to recruit to (it is very small), but it once had a very strong tradition in men's basketball (think Gary Peyton, among others) and seems to be heading back in that direction at present. Eugene is much bigger (maybe 3x as big, I think, and more if you count the metropolitan area), but still feels like a college town. Graves was a very good get for UO, and I expect both schools to have strong women's teams in the years ahad.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

It's probably both an advantage and a disadvantage. It's a known fact that coaches use Dawn's tough style in recruiting against her so national team members who know it may know that they don't want to play for her in college. It works both ways.

 

[Tonyc]

If Im in my Jr or Sr year and Ive proven myself and all that's left is a NC and I want a NC then I transfer to UConn. If that's not what I want then I go elsewhere and Im not a threat for a NC.

 

[Jim R]

Tony - Have to agree...kind of an easy choice, if "I want a NC then, I transfer to UConn"

 

[JordyG]

Full disclosure: We are spoiled and we are probably all sinners too. I have very strong personal opinions (all negative) about coach JPM because I know players that have played for her and other players she has tried to recruit. JPM is incompetent enough that I have the luxury of putting those personal feelings aside to look strictly at her lack of results. Coach JPM is the poster child and proof positive of the Peter Principle. She reached her level of incompetence when she left the campus at Maine. That she has been able to cripple the program at Duke is because not enough people care about WCBB to demand higher standards-That hurts most of all.

On the money.

 

[Vowelguy]

Is it ethical for Dawn Staley to accept transfers from the players she coached for team USA?

I don't have a problem with it, but I can see where it could be called an unfair recruiting advantage. Maybe Vanderbilt will report it.

It's funny to me the number of times that folks on this board will cast stones at other programs, when it is THINGS GENO HAS ALREADY DONE.

About 20 years ago Geno coached one of those junior teams -- U18 or thereabouts. Not only did an uncommitted Ann Strother get a lot of paying time even though I think she was a year younger than most of the team, but she later verbal led to UConn over Tenn. needless to say, the Summitt alleged unethical behavior.

So everyone who is going off on Dawn in this thread will be glad to know they share company with the Summitt posters.

 

[Vowelguy]

Based on the comments, I'd put betting money on her going to SC. Where else would she go if she's looking to go to a top flight program?

Given that her first college was 30 mins from home, it would seem unlikely to me that she would suddenly go far away. Assuming the ACC is out, her next closest set of schools would be the SEC, in particular SC.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

It's funny to me the number of times that folks on this board will cast stones at other programs, when it is THINGS GENO HAS ALREADY DONE.

About 20 years ago Geno coached one of those junior teams -- U18 or thereabouts. Not only did an uncommitted Ann Strother get a lot of paying time even though I think she was a year younger than most of the team, but she later verbal led to UConn over Tenn. needless to say, the Summitt alleged unethical behavior.

So everyone who is going off on Dawn in this thread will be glad to know they share company with the Summitt posters.

Yep. Pat did the same thing. I have to do some research but i am pretty sure she had a transfer to Tennessee after she coached them in they olympics.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Dawn's tough style in recruiting

?? Guess I'm a dunce. What's that?

 

[CocoHusky]

Where did you hear they are a package deal? Westbrook has had a few home visits lately from schools that are not among Ionescu's final 3 schools. Louisville and Tennessee coaches visited within the past 2 weeks and I think both Notre Dame and South Carolina visited before the NCAA tournament began

Package deal is definitely a strong words but according to a few messages on Cal message board Cal's top targets are #1 Inoescu '16, #1 Westbrook '17, and #1 DeAcosta '18. All three played on same AAU team they were national champions and there are quite a few articles out there saying how much they enjoy playing with each other. I would expect Cal's board to look exactly like that though-two (Inoescu and DeAcosta) of three are essentially staying at home.

 

[UConnCat]

Package deal is definitely a strong words but according to a few messages on Cal message board Cal's top targets are #1 Inoescu '16, #1 Westbrook '17, and #1 DeAcosta '18. All three played on same AAU team they were national champions and there are quite a few articles out there saying how much they enjoy playing with each other. I would expect Cal's board to look exactly like that though-two (Inoescu and DeAcosta) of three are essentially staying at home.

Westbrook has said that familiarity with players (i.e., AAU teammates) will not be a factor in her college decision.

 

[UcMiami]

I had forgotten about Strother back in 2001 - she was the youngest on that team by quite a bit.

I do think there is a difference between 'better access' with uncommitted kids which is just a happenstance of being named coach of a young team, and should it ever occur 'tampering' with either an already signed or already enrolled student - which is proscribed by the NCAA.

As for the Cal situation - Westbrook and DeAcosta are probably the top of a number of school's wish lists, and at this point Inoescu is by far the best remaining uncommitted player in her class. While message boards are not exactly good sources for factual data, in this case calling them a package deal as opposed to just great prospects that everyone would like to have is probably a more accurate assessment - and it is pretty hard to package any players over a three year non-overlapping signing period when dealing with teenagers. I believe early on Davis and DeShields were considered a possible package, and then they went in very different directions while still in HS.