Duke transfers - Azura Stevens, Angela Salvadores

[Dillon77]

Not to be outdone by throwing feathers in the wind, I would say SC. Dawn was quite popular this past summer; indeed, I worried about our own player after Dawn took her under her wings.


I have said it before and will say it again that the Boneyard dislike/hatred for coach P borders on personal. The reasons given by players/family members for leaving a school is not always complete. Diplomacy plays a strong role. Team chemistry, coaching style, distance, academics, student life and a sense of belonging in the student body, etc play on the student. I'm not going to judge a coach by the # of NC he or she has won.

↑
I have said it before and will say it again that the Boneyard dislike/hatred for coach P borders on personal.
You got us Boneyarders confused with the Duke inhabitants of the Devils Den. Those folks are downright mean!


As a WCBB enthusiast, Note Dame fan and active member of both The Boneyard and McGraw's Bench, I need to say that there is nothing different about postings about Coach P on the Boneyard that I have not seen elsewhere. In fact, I find the strongest anti-McCallie threads to be on the Devils Den. To wit:
- "Who's on Your Long and Short List to Replace Joanne McCallie?"
- "Step Up the Duke Program Has Crashed."
- "Change Requires Action: What Are You Willing To Do?"
The last one features e-mails about letter to AD White and possibly collecting money to help put against getting rid of her.
So, in short, Blue Devil fans don't have to travel to The Boneyard or McGraw's Bench to see dislike/hatred for Coach P.

That said, she's not a board favorite over at McGraw's bench and a lot of it has to deal with her treatment of players, both her own and others. Two examples:
- she'll call out/throw her players under the bus in pressers. Not all of it is personal and she will include the coaching staff, too. Yes, that's her style, but hearing that kind of disarming bluntness game-in, game-out...well, it gets wearing.
- she's also got this habit in pressers of referring to opposition players by their numbers only, as in "#22 got open too often for our own good."
This drives a lot of people crazy in that it dehumanizes the people involved or is a ploy to make players faceless. No, I don't buy that she is just reading numbers off the stat sheet...there's probably a name next to that number and after 4 years, she darn well knows #22 is Madison Cable. Or she should.
I've seen Geno and Muffet give credit where credit is due by name...sometimes with a fun adjective... but it's personal

Running a successful program manifests itself in a number of ways and winning national championships, league championships, and having winning records do count (to paraphrase Bill Parcells, how many "w's " you got?) . So does the people element of it...how do the young adults play the game, comport themselves on and off the court. And how do they live as alums. UConn and ND fans can feel good on these counts, but are not shy about offering up critiques. Coach P is treated the same way. She's just got to raise her game.

 

[UConnCat]

Stevens can also transfer to Uconn she has family ties out here in CT.

Yes she does. Azura's sister is Da'Shena Stevens who attended Trinity Catholic HS in Stamford CT and went on to play for St John's. Da'Shena is currently an asst coach at St John's. Azura was born in Rhode Island.

 

[UcMiami]

We talk about players and pressers and record, but I think one of the telling parts of Cam's excellent synopsis of Duke pre and post JPM is the list of assistants moving on in rapid succession and in parallel moves. That suggests an uncongenial work place (or if they are being pushed out a really bad evaluation process in hiring.)

If you look at successful coaches and programs you see great continuity in the coaching staff - Marisa is the 'baby' on the Uconn staff and has been there now seven years I think, Ivy at ND I believe is the most recent hire and is six years in (?), Dawn I don't think has had any turnover, Tara long term staff, etc. Duke is a turnstile and there is nothing in the location or I suspect the compensation that would jump as a reason to leave after a year or two.

 

[msf22b]

To follow up on Coco's post:

The Boneyard's distain for JPM is based on self-inflicted issues.
For example at her post-game pressers (especially losing ones)

1. Her absurd referring to other team's stars by identifying them by uniform number.
2. Her constant refrain of lessons to be learned from losses
3. Her blaming of her players for the lack of success.
4. Her refusal to accept any responsibility when things go South

These attributes have been remarked on for years, never change, and open her to scorn and ridicule.
Not even getting into overall team performance and player development.

On the issues I mentioned above, she is a public relations nightmare

 

[BRS24]

↑

Running a successful program manifests itself in a number of ways and winning national championships, league championships, and having winning records do count (to paraphrase Bill Parcells, how many "w's " you got?) . So does the people element of it...how do the young adults play the game, comport themselves on and off the court. And how do they live as alums. UConn and ND fans can feel good on these counts, but are not shy about offering up critiques. Coach P is treated the same way. She's just got to raise her game.

Woo hoo! We've not even close to the semi games and we can start the Doris Burke drinking game already!!!!

 

[Fairfield Fan]

this is why i hate it when people compare Duke and TN. yes, they are struggling to win big games BUT TN has consisently gotten to the Elite 8 AND won several SEC titles over the past few years. Not only that, players don't usually leave TN for basketball reasons. Tucker left and that was pretty much it. i know we aren't near the top of rankings but overall the players love playing at TN and love the coaches and fans. the same can't be said for UNC or Duke. just my opinion though....

Seriously? Did you see the barely-concealed smirk by DD when Holly Wharlick patted her on the back at the pressure after their EE loss? If kids love playing there so much, why do they have just one recruit over the past two years?

Seems to me that the BY'er made a very compelling case why Coach McCallie's performance has been dramatically different from her predecessor.

 

[easttexastrash]

To follow up on Coco's post:

The Boneyard's distain for JPM is based on self-inflicted issues.
For example at her post-game pressers (especially losing ones)

1. Her absurd referring to other team's stars by identifying them by uniform number.
2. Her constant refrain of lessons to be learned from losses
3. Her blaming of her players for the lack of success.
4. Her refusal to accept any responsibility when things go South

These attributes have been remarked on for years, never change, and open her to scorn and ridicule.
Not even getting into overall team performance and player development.

On the issues I mentioned above, she is a public relations nightmare

My thoughts exactly.

 

[wes33]

I predict coach P will try to get a mutually fair buyout of course slanted in her direction.
The next three years for her is not going to be anything you would want on your most
hated coach.

 

[Gate81]

My thoughts exactly.

agreed, yet these are the micro examples. The big picture is the talent she gets and wastes huge amounts of talent. I have nothing personally against her -- just think it sad that she is wasting these students' basketball abilities -- regardless of national championships. Stanford hasn't won a national championship in over 20 years but the kids are definitely coached and learn to play both as individuals and as a team.

Geno at one extreme, JPM is the opposite. That's the real matter.

 

[Kibitzer]

Geno is 39 and 8 all time vs St. John's, that is not much of a "rivalry". Would Geno have waived the extra year if same player wanted to go to ND?

He would send her to purgatory for a year to atone for the most unforgivable sin!

 

[Wbbfan1]

Cam: Why is she safe? Is it really all about the Dollars they would have to pay if they fire her?

Mike Flynn has alleged abuses that has gone on in the Duke practices. Has that been investigated? Mike seems to think that it has not. Is the Duke AD office rallying around JPM and more or less saying we know better

Has Duke lowered their expectations for the WBB program and all that is required now is to have a winning record?

As requested...

Comparing predecessor Gail Goestenkors' last seven years at Duke with Joanne P. McCallie's eight-plus years (including this year) at Duke produces the following:

Overall record:
Goestenkors: 220-25 (89.79 percent)
McCallie: 243-64 (79.15 percent)

ACC record:
Goestenkors: 98-8 (92.45 percent)
McCallie: 107-30 (78.10 percent)

NCAA record:
Goestenkors: 23-7 (one NCAA runner-up, three Final Fours, five years at least making the Elite eight, all seven years at least making the Sweet 16)
McCallie: 18-8 (zero Final Fours, four Elite Eights, six years at least making the Sweet 16, two second round losses)

Against Top 5 Opponents:
Goestenkors: 14-14 (50.00 percent)
McCallie: 7-28 (20.00 percent)

Against Top 10 Opponents:
Goestenkors: 25-14 (64.10 percent)
McCallie: 19-36 (34.545 percent)

Against Ranked Opponents:
Goestenkors: 60-20 (80.00 percent)
McCallie: 58-49 (54.21 percent)

Against UConn:
Goestenkors: 2-1 (2-2 for her career; 2-1 against UConn over her last seven years; both wins in the State of Connecticut)
McCallie: 0-8 (and only one loss was less than 22 points, and that was by 16 points)

Against Tennessee:
Goestenkors: 4-3 (5-4 for her career; 4-3 against Tennessee over her last seven years)
McCallie: 1-1

Against Tennessee under Coach G, Duke won twice in Knoxville. And though it was not in the time frame discussed above, Duke defeated three-time defending national champion Tennessee in 1999 to reach the Final Four, ending the career of Chamique Holdsclaw and ending the seasons of Semeka Randall and Tamika Catchings.

Against UConn under Coach P, Duke has scored over 52 points in only one of those eight games, while scoring in the 40s in five of the eight. Duke has allowed between 74 and 87 points in seven of the eight games. Duke has lost those eight games by an average of 29 points, notwithstanding the fact that Duke was ranked in the Top 10 for every single one of those games (and in the Top 5 for four of the eight).

What was Coach P's solution to UConn? She decided to take the Huskies off the schedule!

As for recruiting, here is the list of Duke's McDonald's All-Americans from 2010 through 2014:
2014 - Sierra Calhoun, Lyneé Belton
2013 - Oderah Chidom, Kendall Cooper, Rebecca Greenwell
2012 - Alexis Jones, Sierra Moore
2011 - Amber Henson, Elizabeth Williams
2010 - Chelsea Gray, Richa Jackson, Haley Peters

Out of 120 MCDAAs from 2010-2014, 12 have gone to Duke - 10 percent.
*Note that this does not include players who were named Parade All-Americans or WBCA All-Americans.

Coach P inherited a roster with eight high school All-Americans (MCDAA) - Wanisha Smith, Abby Waner, Carrem Gay, Krystal Thomas, Jasmine Thomas, Joy Cheek, Bridgette Mitchell.

Since McCallie took over, Duke has had at least five recruiting classes (counting 2015) ranked #1 or #2. McCallie has led her teams to four Elite Eights in eight-plus seasons. In two of those Elite Eight games, her teams scored in the 40s; three of the losses were by 11+ points. By contrast, Duke made the Final Four four times in the ten previous years under her predecessor, while Duke has zero Final Four appearances during Coach P's tenure.

Since Coach P took over for the 2007-2008 season, here is the list of schools to have made the Final Four:

Multiple Appearances in the Final Four (since the fall of 2007)
- UConn (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
- Notre Dame (2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015)
- Stanford (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014)
- Louisville (2009, 2013)
- Oklahoma (2009, 2010)
- Maryland (2014, 2015)
- Baylor (2010, 2012)
- LSU (2007, 2008)

Single Appearances in the Final Four (since the fall of 2007)
- South Carolina (2015)
- California (2013)
- Texas A&M (2011)
- Tennessee (2008)
- LSU (2008)
- Washingotn (2016)
- Syracuse (2016)
- Oregon State (2016)

The overwhelming majority of these schools have had fewer McDonald's All Americans than Duke has had. In fact, some of these schools had either zero MCDAA players or only one such player. Yet their respective results have been significantly better.

With the elite talent being brought in, one would expect the results on a national stage to be better, even significantly better. And the overall records against Top 10 and Top 5 teams are frightening, to say the least (and even worse when factoring in the talent).

Now, injuries have certainly played their parts in recent years (2013-2014 and this year especially). But injuries are just used as excuses. Three of the past eight MCDAA players at Duke have transferred, which is a concern. This season, Duke lost to Wake Forest (after 44 straight wins) and to Georgia Tech in Cameron (last time was 22 years ago). Duke had more MCDAA players and more elite talent on their respective rosters. Both Wake and Georgia Tech lost their best players (Dearica Hamby and Kaela Davis, respectively). And both games demonstrate a Duke coach who is willing to do more with less (in terms of talent), who will not make adjustments, and who puts a product on the floor that very few people want to watch.

And the coaching staff turnover has been an area of concern, especially when you consider their respective destinations:

• Samantha Williams (Assistant Coach, Louisville)
• Joy Cheek (Assistant Coach, Ohio State)
• Shannon Perry (Assistant Coach, UCLA)
• Trisha Stafford-Odom (Assistant Coach, UNC)
• Candice Jackson (Head Coach, College of Charleston)

Five African-American female assistant coaches have left in eight-plus years, but only one left for a head coaching position. And one was a former McCallie player at Duke who chose to take a lateral position at a school to which she had zero ties, rather than enduring Coach P. If Al Brown is gone as an assistant coach after this year as well, that would make six assistant coaches in nine seasons. And this is not counting the departures of Lauren Rice, Robert Brickey, etc.

Our once proud program has gone from national title contender and perennial Final Four participant to a national punchline.

 

[kat0189]

If Duke actually bit the bullet (financially) and canned Joanne P. McCallie, then SOMEHOW lured Oregon State's Scott Rueck, I am telling you that would be perhaps THE BIGGEST potential game changer in the major WCBB landscape in a decade.

Rueck his PERFORMED MIRACLES with Oregon State since day 1 (I follow Pac-12 quite closely being on the West Coast). In fact, his early exit last year losing to Colorado in the Pac-12 tournament then Gonzaga in the NCAA 2nd round are BY FAR the biggest blemishes on his record, including his two losing record years (1st & 3rd years at Oregon State, the 3rd year being his current seniors' freshmen season).

 

[kat0189]

If Duke actually bit the bullet (financially) and canned Joanne P. McCallie, then SOMEHOW lured Oregon State's Scott Rueck, I am telling you that would be perhaps THE BIGGEST potential game changer in the major WCBB landscape in a decade.

Rueck his PERFORMED MIRACLES with Oregon State since day 1 (I follow Pac-12 quite closely being on the West Coast). In fact, his early exit last year losing to Colorado in the Pac-12 tournament then Gonzaga in the NCAA 2nd round are BY FAR the biggest blemishes on his record, including his two losing record years (1st & 3rd years at Oregon State, the 3rd year being his current seniors' freshmen season).

I say "SOMEHOW lured" b/c Scott Rueck seems to be very loyal to Oregon State, his alma mater. AND despite "just being Oregon State," they have actually demonstrated an admirable amount of support for their WBB program. They fired or did not renew Judy Spoelstra (HC from '95-'05) despite decent success at times (Pac-12 COY in 2000), and hired LaVonda Wagner who, ironically, was an assistant at Duke and considered an up-and-coming coaching star from the Goestenkors coaching tree AT THE TIME. Wagner showed early promise, just barely missing the NCAA tournament one season IIRC after a great non-conference performance before losing steam in conference play. Wagner then became an overnight nightmare in terms of player relations and PR controversy, but still had a fair amount of time left in her contract IIRC, yet Oregon State seemed to bite the bullet financially and she was canned right then after that season.

Oregon State will do EVERYTHING they can to keep Rueck, IMHO. I believe his current salary (base?) is maybe 350k? My impression is that Oregon State will find a way to AT LEAST double that. AT LEAST. But if a school comes in offering $1 million or $1.5 million (which I BELIEVE would put him on at the top 5 nationally in terms of coaching salaries?) Oregon State simply might not be able to match it...BUT THEY WILL TRY! And I believe it would take a big "an offer he can't refuse" to lure Rueck, NOT simply just any salary bonus.

Again, he seems very loyal to his alma mater, AND he managed to significantly improve Oregon State's recruiting (IIRC, latest class has 1 top 25, 1 top 50, and 1 top 70 player. For comparison, his current starting 5 has 1 top 50 player and 1 top 80 player, then 3 unranked players).

It might take a little time (or an initial hire of an assistant with established "Duke caliber" recruiting prowess in "Duke recruiting territory") to get Duke's recruiting (which really hasn't been the problem though) back where it was at the height of the Goestenkors era. But I have held this opinion for a long time: the man MIGHT just be a coaching genius, and I honestly can't for sure say he is not already a more impressive/productive coach than even the legendary Tara Vanderveer within the Pac-12.

 

[UcMiami]

Mike Flynn has alleged abuses that has gone on in the Duke practices. Has that been investigated? Mike seems to think that it has not. Is the Duke AD office rallying around JPM and more or less saying we know better

I am not sure anyone needs to answer to accusations thrown out by Mike - he is driven by his own agenda. Sometimes he does good, like getting coaches to grant releases, but a lot of time he is subject to a lot of conflict of interest issues. He is the one 'voice' of WBB that I truly distrust when he starts ranting.

 

[bballnut90]

Based on the comments, I'd put betting money on her going to SC. Where else would she go if she's looking to go to a top flight program?

If you look at the teams projected to be elite squads in the next 2 years, you have:
South Carolina-White just left and Coates will be gone, creating the perfect spot for Stevens to step into a star studded lineup of Wilson/Gray/Davis. She's played for Staley and there are already reports of her showing interest. She also should be able to have her degree and jump to the next level if she decides to after 2017-18.

Connecticut-The only other program that seems like a feasible option. If Butler doesn't pan out, UCONN has big holes in the post in the next few seasons. She could step up and be the force inside to compliment UCONN's slew of wings/forwards and make them a heavy title favorite in 2017-18. She'll also get a year or 2 of coaching under Geno and would be a top pick in the 2018 or 2019 WNBA draft. UCONN is reluctant to take transfers though, so I don't think it's a slam dunk by any means.

Ohio State-this could be another option, and boy would the program be insanely stacked if she transfers in. In 2017-18, OSU will have Mavunga and Alexa Hart as seniors. I think she beats out Hart, but she doesn't slide in as nicely here, and it appears there will already be somewhat of a jam for playing time with both posts, and then a slew of really good guards (Mitchell, Harper, Holland, Calhoun).

Baylor-they are already too loaded with posts, she doesn't go here

Texas-she'd fit in nicely alongside Holmes, but Texas would be a far commute, and the program is still a ways away from being a consistent top threat.

Notre Dame/Louisville/Florida State-All in conference. Louisville could be a great destination for her though if she only had to sit out 1 year.

Oregon State-Great coaching, very very far from home. Who knows if Rueck gets poached by another top program after this year.

Maryland-another viable option where she slides in nicely, but after a year with Lexi Brown who just transferred from MD, I don't see her going there. Also, far from home.

 

[msf22b]

I say "SOMEHOW lured" b/c Scott Rueck seems to be very loyal to Oregon State, his alma mater. A

Aside from the big money, why not stay?
A great program can start anywhere...any cow pasture...Storrs Ct, for example.

 

[j66kicker]

Aside from the big money, why not stay?
A great program can start anywhere...any cow pasture...Storrs Ct, for example.

Big money can be very persuasive. If you're making $350K, I imagine $1m+ per year could be life changing for you and your family, and very hard to ignore.

 

[Vowelguy]

Aside from the big money, why not stay?

Recruiting to the Northwest is not super easy. There is a fairly small set of local talent; after that you're looking at CA and CO -- more players but also more competition. You are not going to get a lot of players from the east or south.

Sure you can still be successful but any coach would rather be situated in a talent rich area.

 

[UcMiami]

Recruiting to the Northwest is not super easy. There is a fairly small set of local talent; after that you're looking at CA and CO -- more players but also more competition. You are not going to get a lot of players from the east or south.

Sure you can still be successful but any coach would rather be situated in a talent rich area.

Well - look at TN, they seemed to have mined the NW for quite a few - players that probably would be better for having stayed home and gotten better coaching.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Well - look at TN, they seemed to have mined the NW for quite a few - players that probably would be better for having stayed home and gotten better coaching.

Absolutely. I suspect Tenn can save the airline miles to this region for a while.

 

[MarieYLee]

If Rueck can land Ionescu (I think Oregon is the favorite), would be a big coup. Evina Westbrook would also be a key recruit (similar to Rebecca Lobo type recruit) if Oregon State wants to become a National power. Get back to the F4 with Westbrook/Ionescu, and that will show other CA kids that he is a good coach/can help them improve. What he has done with the recruits he has is pretty spectacular.

 

[JordyG]

If Duke actually bit the bullet (financially) and canned Joanne P. McCallie, then SOMEHOW lured Oregon State's Scott Rueck, I am telling you that would be perhaps THE BIGGEST potential game changer in the major WCBB landscape in a decade.

Rueck his PERFORMED MIRACLES with Oregon State since day 1 (I follow Pac-12 quite closely being on the West Coast). In fact, his early exit last year losing to Colorado in the Pac-12 tournament then Gonzaga in the NCAA 2nd round are BY FAR the biggest blemishes on his record, including his two losing record years (1st & 3rd years at Oregon State, the 3rd year being his current seniors' freshmen season).

And if I could go back 30 years and commit myself to piano lessons. If Geno could somehow coach another 25 years. If the top 3 MCDAA would commit to UConn every year. If if's were skiffs we'd all be sailing.

 

[bballnut90]

Recruiting to the Northwest is not super easy. There is a fairly small set of local talent; after that you're looking at CA and CO -- more players but also more competition. You are not going to get a lot of players from the east or south.

Sure you can still be successful but any coach would rather be situated in a talent rich area.

I can't imagine Oregon State is an easy place to recruit to. If you're selling the west coast/Pac 12 to a recruit, I'd think they'd be more likely to be interested in the California schools, U of O in Eugene which is a great college town, or UW which is beautiful and in the heart of Seattle. Academically, the school is fine but pales compared to the other Pac 12 programs. I think he could maintain a great program at OSU but it would be more difficult to maintain a national powerhouse there. If he went to a school with better facilities, better resources, a larger fan base (although OSU's is growing) and a school that is easier to recruit to, he could build the program into a monster. That said, the turnaround job he has done at Oregon State is remarkable. I think the next step is either jumping to a different program, or figuring out how to maintain excellence. The job he's done thus far is immensely impressive:

2010–11 Oregon State 9-21 2-16 10th
2011–12 Oregon State 20-13 9-9 T-5th WNIT 3rd Round
2012–13 Oregon State 10-21 4-14 T-11th
2013–14 Oregon State 24-11 13-5 T-2nd NCAA Second Round
2014–15 Oregon State 27-5 16-2 1st NCAA Second Round
2015–16 Oregon State 32-4 16-2 1st NCAA Final Four

 

[Gate81]

So maybe Duke won't convince him, and instead in 2-3 years he goes to another Pac-12 school with facilities et.al. By then, USC might be available again. Or my husband suggests Stanford when Tara retiring (while the rumor is that she has a successor on staff, who could compete with an accomplished head coach)...

 

[hjoerring]

I don't think it's personal at all. JPM has quantifiable failure, and epic underachievement in her time at Duke. In 2014 Duke a #2 seed lost to #7 Depaul in the second round of the NCAA tournament-ON DUKE's HOME COURT!
IMO NC is a fine way to judge a coach, but of course that standard wouldn't apply to coach JPM would it?

You might be right w/ your measuring stick. And having won so many NC one can be forgiven for being giddy. I will take Geno at his words- Uconn makes it look easy, but it is very difficult to win. Were it not so you and I would be out there playing/coaching. CocoHusky, I think we are spoiled. Or, as the athletes say these days- we are just blessed (so the others must be sinners). I have no opinions regarding coach P. Most of what I have to say comes from statements about her throwing her players under the bus"-- not a strategy for improving team play/performance. Perhaps her paedogical skills are wanting. But, asking for her head when she consistently have her team in the top 10 and without the usual scandals might be unconvincing. Would we be asking for Geno's head (or his replacement) if the team drops out of the top 5 and not make the final 4 for a two seasons? I think we are so use to speaking from a position of dominance that we have forgotten that it is not reality. This is not an argument for settling for just anything.