Dorka?

[Stymie]

What's the definition of "the best shot?" Liv taking 15 footers if she is wide open- is that "the best shot?" Dorka taking f/t's and making 50% of them, is that "the best shot?"

Why can't we assume teams would foul a 50% free throw shooter rather thna have Paige and Azizi get off shots?

In basketball, fouls area finite commodity.
Once your starters get in foul “ trouble” the game changes.
If they need to back off of their defensive assignments , the game changes.
If you need to sit them, the game changes.

This coming season, UCONN can afford to give some fouls and press aggressively as a result of team depth in the backcourt.
At the same time they can afford to give some fouls as a result of playing aggressively inside.

I look forward to observing how Coach utilizes team depth this year.
I expect that the proposition of starters playing 35-38 minutes a game isn’t in the offing.

 

[uconnever]

She's All-Big 10 two years running. She's bona fide. I'd be shocked if Ono gets more PT.

I loved Dorka even before she came here, but more playing time than ONO is a bit much, but I can see more playing time when it matters because I think she has a better offensive game and is good defensively compared to ONO who has not done too well when it mattered most and lacks in the offensive area. I believe ONO gets every chance to succeed this year and if it’s the same old same in the big games, she sits.

 

[Charliebball]

What's the definition of "the best shot?" Liv taking 15 footers if she is wide open- is that "the best shot?" Dorka taking f/t's and making 50% of them, is that "the best shot?"

Why can't we assume teams would foul a 50% free throw shooter rather thna have Paige and Azizi get off shots?

the most makeable shot a team can get within the time allowed is the best shot.........if other teams want to go into the bonus by continuously fouling UConn's posts so much the better........you're concern really only applies to a close end of the game scenario where you want your best fouls shooters on the line........it's up to the coach to mix and match players under those circumstances.....

 

[oldude]

I am pretty sure that Ohio State was ineligible for the NCAA Tournament in 2021 as a result of previous NCAA rules violations. They weren't included in any of Charlie Creme's mock brackets, presumably for that reason.

Otherwise, Ohio State would clearly have qualified for the tournament. It finished higher in the Big 10 than other teams which qualified.

That doesn't mean that Dorka will start for UConn, and in fact I doubt that she will. But she will get plenty of minutes, if only because of the foul proneness of both Liv and Aaliyah.

There were 7 teams from the Big10 in the NCAA tournament. 6 had better overall records than tOSU. MSU at 8-7 in conference, 15-9 overall was basically a tossup with tOSU’s 9-7 in conference, 13-7 overall. tOSU may have been selected for the tournament had they been eligible, but I wouldn’t venture that it was “clearly” the case.

 

[CocoHusky]

Sounds like you have already determined that Dorka will start. I haven’t. Dorka was one of the leading scorers for a 13-7 tOSU team that didn’t even make it to the postseason. She will need to find her roll at UConn.

Dorka is the second transfer to UConn who will be immediately eligible. You correctly cautioned me relative to the other one about inflated expectations. I’m returning the favor.

Let’s see what happens when the season rolls around.

I don't determine who starts. I predicted that Dorka will. I also previously cautioned you that it was "laughable" to compare Dorka and her accomplishments to Evelyn Adebayo yet there you go again. Murray State is not Ohio State. The basis of my expectations is documented accomplishments. I also previously mentioned that Dorka is comparable to Azura Stevens by position and her Duke stats. Before you jump the gun and point out that Azura did not start for UCONN let me just remind you that there were 2 returning AA players (KLS and Napheesa) and another player who would be named AA (Gabby) who kept her from doing so. Dorka doesn't have to start to help this team -Azura didn't. I have no hesitation in inflating my expectations for Dorka to be significantly above what Evelyn contributed at UCONN.

 

[PvP]

You might be right. Perhaps ONO is a better defender than Dorka, but as you say that is an assumption. That was never in question based on your original goalpost in the comment I quoted which was all about free throw percentages, was it not? Defensive play on the inside is not something that is reflected in easily available (read free) stats, and I've honestly never seen Dorka play that much, so I'm not going to make any assumption.

What I do know is that the decision will be up to Geno, based on what he actually sees in practice and in on the court. There will be no assumptions. I personally don't have an axe to grind or a favorite to champion or defend. I simply want the best playing when it matters. Right now, the position is ONO's to defend and someone is going to have to take it from her if they want it. Let's see how she does.

Agreed that it all

You might be right. Perhaps ONO is a better defender than Dorka, but as you say that is an assumption. That was never in question based on your original goalpost in the comment I quoted which was all about free throw percentages, was it not? Defensive play on the inside is not something that is reflected in easily available (read free) stats, and I've honestly never seen Dorka play that much, so I'm not going to make any assumption.

What I do know is that the decision will be up to Geno, based on what he actually sees in practice and in on the court. There will be no assumptions. I personally don't have an axe to grind or a favorite to champion or defend. I simply want the best playing when it matters. Right now, the position is ONO's to defend and someone is going to have to take it from her if they want it. Let's see how she does.

Agreed that it remains to be seen who Geno feels can best be trusted. The only impartial indications of skill on the court I would offer are the facts that in 3 years ONO has never been named to an all conference first team even while UCONN was in the very weak AAC while Dorka was twice named to the first team all Big Ten Conference which is hardly a patsy league. That tells me a lot.

 

[hoophuskee]

In basketball, fouls area finite commodity.
Once your starters get in foul “ trouble” the game changes.
If they need to back off of their defensive assignments , the game changes.
If you need to sit them, the game changes.

This coming season, UCONN can afford to give some fouls and press aggressively as a result of team depth in the backcourt.
At the same time they can afford to give some fouls as a result of playing aggressively inside.

I look forward to observing how Coach utilizes team depth this year.
I expect that the proposition of starters playing 35-38 minutes a game isn’t in the offing.

Who says if you are opposing team that you are going to get into foul trouble? How often do you think UCONN is going to dump the ball to Dorka vs wanting Paige, Azzi, and CWill to shoot? And as for inside- Edwards is pretty good too. SO even less shots for Dorka. And there's also a finite number of possessions. So there isn't enough possessions to have to rely on getting another very good defensive team in a tight game in foul trouble. Nor do I see why the opposing team "needs to back off." Why wouldn't they want a 50% f/t shooter taking free throws late in games rather than Paige or Azzi taking shots? The fouls don’t have to come just from the post player defending Dorka.


As far as press press press I'm not sold on that though maybe a bit more than a few weeks ago - ofc it depends on health and performance of Azzi and CWill imo. If these two are as good as I think they can be and are healthy-- I don't see how keeping your super players on the bench such as Paige makes UCONN better. Not to mention press press press risks cheap fouls on someone like Paige. But this is a bit off topic to Dorka. But if someone wants to put up a thread on team style - pace of play this upcoming year that would be cool to read. And -- I do expect Paige to get 35+ in big games that are close throughout the game this year- absolutely.

 

[oldude]

I don't determine who starts. I predicted that Dorka will. I also previously cautioned you that it was "laughable" to compare Dorka and her accomplishments to Evelyn Adebayo yet there you go again. Murray State is not Ohio State. The basis of my expectations is documented accomplishments. I also previously mentioned that Dorka is comparable to Azura Stevens by position and her Duke stats. Before you jump the gun and point out that Azura did not start for UCONN let me just remind you that there were 2 returning AA players (KLS and Napheesa) and another player who would be named AA (Gabby) who kept her from doing so. Dorka doesn't have to start to help this team -Azura didn't. I have no hesitation in inflating my expectations for Dorka to be significantly above what Evelyn contributed at UCONN.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion on Dorka. But what possible purpose does it serve to demean Liv in order to make your point?

We can go back and forth on this all day. I suggest we table the discussion until the season comes around. If Dorka ends up starting, feel free to say, “I told you so.”

 

[hoophuskee]

the most makeable shot a team can get within the time allowed is the best shot.........if other teams want to go into the bonus by continuously fouling UConn's posts so much the better........you're concern really only applies to a close end of the game scenario where you want your best fouls shooters on the line........it's up to the coach to mix and match players under those circumstances.....

Who says UCONN is going to continually get the ball to Dorka in which she is in such an advantageous position for a team to have to foul her against a very good defensive team in a game that is tight throughout? It takes time "to win position." As we know UCONN moves the ball around a lot. So against a very good defensive team in a tight game what makes us think Dorka is going to "win position" often to get the ball in a position to score a lot? And if UCONN is also trying to get shots for Paige, Azzi, CWill, and even Edwards- and ofc Evina is/can be pretty efficient-- how many opportunities is Dorka going to get?

Yes-- in part in bold was my point but then what are we arguing about? A few possessions before the last 5 minutes? How often will UCONN feature Dorka if they know she can't play at the end of the games because she can't hit free throws? I figure rather than dumping the ball down low to her late - she sets picks which ofc has lots of value too. And ofc UCONN wants to run—so how much is there “to dump the ball to Dorka?”

In terms of "makeable shot" - during the season if Dorka is showing you she is a 50% free throw shooter then that’s part of "a makeable shot," is it not? So when she takes 6 free throws in a game the expectation is 3-6 -- not 4-6 or better. No more "makebale" than Liv taking outside jump shots. Okay maybe a little better but you get the point I think?

 

[Stymie]

Who says if you are opposing team that you are going to get into foul trouble? How often do you think UCONN is going to dump the ball to Dorka vs wanting Paige, Azzi, and CWill to shoot? And as for inside- Edwards is pretty good too. SO even less shots for Dorka. And there's also a finite number of possessions. So there isn't enough possessions to have to rely on getting another very good defensive team in a tight game in foul trouble. Nor do I see why the opposing team "needs to back off." Why wouldn't they want a 50% f/t shooter taking free throws late in games rather than Paige or Azzi taking shots? The fouls don’t have to come just from the post player defending Dorka.


As far as press press press I'm not sold on that though maybe a bit more than a few weeks ago - ofc it depends on health and performance of Azzi and CWill imo. If these two are as good as I think they can be and are healthy-- I don't see how keeping your super players on the bench such as Paige makes UCONN better. Not to mention press press press risks cheap fouls on someone like Paige. But this is a bit off topic to Dorka. But if someone wants to put up a thread on team style - pace of play this upcoming year that would be cool to read. And -- I do expect Paige to get 35+ in big games that are close throughout the game this year- absolutely.

I apologize for knowing nothing about basketball.
But if you don’t believe that the size upgrade on the UCONN front line will result in greater competition for rebounds and therefore more fouling, I’m sorry.
“Dumping the ball inside” is not a proposition that I suggested.
More size=more competition for rebounds=more contact = more foul calls.
(On both ends of the floor)

 

[MooseJaw]

And if they can't shoot /t's much better than what they've shown at UCONN and Ohio State, then you can't trust dumping the ball down low to them to score in close big games either unless they have a wide open layup.

A 50% f't shooter is not good enough to trust to score in tight, close, big games. Even if Dorka has the terrific skill/ability-- a very good defensive team in a tight game will not allow her to beat them with low post moves if she can't prove she can hit free throws. It doesn't matter that she has the skill - very good coaching from a very good defensive team in a tight game will more-than-likely will foul her (and some fouls will go uncalled.). thus reducing her effective fg% from normal to drastically worse.

So then I guess Liv can't be trusted in the same type situations. It is a big hope that both Dorka and Liv improve on FT's. Even the elite teams have weaknesses, if our weakness is free throw shooting by our 2 bigs we will survive, and thrive.

 

[Stymie]

So then I guess Liv can't be trusted in the same type situations. It is a big hope that both Dorka and Liv improve on FT's. Even the elite teams have weaknesses, if our weakness is free throw shooting by our 2 bigs we will survive, and thrive.

And every time they get to the line, the closer a competitor comes to sitting.

 

[MooseJaw]

While there is great anticipation for any transfer to the program, we should all be cautious in our expectations relative to Dorka. She has to get comfortable in UConn’s system. Even for a smart, experienced player, that can be a challenge. Hopefully Dorka can also regain her 3-pt shooting touch from two seasons ago, after a significant decline last season.

Personally, I will be very pleased if Dorka provides solid minutes off the bench backing up Liv. Anything more than that will be icing on the cake.

Expect a boat load of icing, what's your favorite?

 

[oldude]

Expect a boat load of icing, what's your favorite?

I’m a big fan of buttercream icing.

 

[hoophuskee]

I apologize for knowing nothing about basketball.
But if you don’t believe that the size upgrade on the UCONN front line will result in greater competition for rebounds and therefore more fouling, I’m sorry.
“Dumping the ball inside” is not a proposition that I suggested.
More size=more competition for rebounds=more contact = more foul calls.
(On both ends of the floor)

Who says you know nothing about basketball? Because we have a disagreement you are assuming that I think you know nothing about basketball? Please don't think that. I was hoping these are friendly arguments. Please if I suggested you know nothing or little or anything near that no way in hell. Hell I could be way way way way wrong.

For anyone reading my posts I am arguing in friendly terms - please don't ever take it any other way. It was my post that Charlie- who replied with class as he always does - we seemed to differ. I was just defending my post- with no malicious intent. Just having fun. I apologize if I offended? Not my intent.

In regards to dumping it in the post- that's what started the argument with Charlie and I and the 1st post you replied to me I had a made a statement -- "And if they can't shoot f/t's much better than what they've shown at UCONN and Ohio State, then you can't trust dumping the ball down low to them to score in close big games either unless they have a wide open layup." - You replied to this along with other comments that I made. So I see now if that wasn't your point and it was the other -- okay. But my comment was included in your reply that's why I thought as I did.

Anyway, I don't know about the italics. I was just focused on "dumping the ball down low to Dorka" comments that charlie made and I thought you jumped in with agreement because that was part of my post you replied to.

Got to run. You are an excellent poster.

 

[MooseJaw]

We have bear our gums nearly to death on this subject, I suggest the following.
!. Geno is loyal to his players, Liv has started 3 years even if Dorka turns out to have the same talent or is a slightly better player Liv will start.
2. While Liv starts if Dorka is better, Dorka plays significant minutes.
3. During the regular season there will probably be only 2 teams where our above debate even matters, the Gcocks and the big trees. In those games I can see where it may be necessary to have our three bigs in the game at times.
4. I would like to see Liv and Dorka play full tilt 100% of the time, if so 20 minutes give or take a few minutes for both would float my boat.
5. Against both teams mentioned in point 4 it may well come down to, Does our guard play dictate game tempo and style our do one or both teams try and smother us with the big power game. In my mind I think Dawn will try and big us to death. Not so sure what T.V. will do with her line up.

 

[CocoHusky]

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion on Dorka. But what possible purpose does it serve to demean Liv in order to make your point?

We can go back and forth on this all day. I suggest we table the discussion until the season comes around. If Dorka ends up starting, feel free to say, “I told you so.”

I don’t think I demeaning Liv by pointing out that her development has been disappointing. If that were the case them surely you would have to include Geno in the demeaning because he’s pointed out that Liv is in for a
long senior season if she does not improve. I’ve made several predictions about UCONN players that turned out to be wrong. Right or wrong you will not be hearing from me. What I really want to know is why you are so unwelcoming of Dorka by: stating that Geno would never be interested in her, comparing her to Evelyn and relegating her to be a back up to Liv when Dorka has accomplished far more as a basketball player.

 

[oldude]

I don’t think I demeaning Liv by pointing out that her development has been disappointing.

Really? Your post strikes me as a sarcastic criticism of Liv for not making 1st team all-conference. How does that have anything to do with her development as a player. UConn has had many players who never made 1st team all conference, and they were very good nonetheless.

Yea Liv could really really use a quality back! Perhaps a player that was 2X first team all Big 10 especially considering Liv was not even 1st team after playing three full seasons in the Big East and the American.

 

[CocoHusky]

Really? Your post strikes me as a sarcastic criticism of Liv for not making 1st team all-conference. How does that have anything to do with her development as a player. UConn has had many players who never made 1st team all conference, and they were very good nonetheless.

Keep crying wolf about me demeaning players and ignoring the obvious if you must. This thread is about Dorka. If Liv had developed as projected, a BY thread about Dorka would not be necessary. Clear enough?

 

[oldude]

Keep crying wolf about me demeaning players and ignoring the obvious if you must. This thread is about Dorka. If Liv had developed as projected, a BY thread about Dorka would not be necessary. Clear enough?

Who exactly projected Liv’s development? You? It amazes me that someone on a fan forum, who thinks he knows something about basketball, has the audacity to sit in judgment on a player of Liv’s ability.

 

[Stymie]

If I may.
Whatever level Liv played at when she came to UCONN and however far one may feel she has progressed, you (and she) cannot be satisfied with the way she performed in the final two games of last season.
Running the table in the AAC and Big East doesn’t mean diddly if you can’t up your game in the tournament.
Unless Conference Trophies are your primary goal....
We’ll see how she responds soon enough.

 

[oldude]

If I may.
Whatever level Liv played at when she came to UCONN and however far one may feel she has progressed, you (and she) cannot be satisfied with the way she performed in the final two games of last season.
Running the table in the AAC and Big East doesn’t mean diddly if you can’t up your game in the tournament.
Unless Conference Trophies are your primary goal....
We’ll see how she responds soon enough.

I appreciate all the young ladies who play for UConn, win or lose. Liv owes nothing to me or any other fan. Whether she is satisfied with her play is all that really matters in the end.

 

[Jingo]

Liv is a sure lottery pick .. she has the whole package especially length, height & athleticism which you can't teach, eh?

 

[Stymie]

And every time they get to the line, the closer a competitor comes to sitting.

Exactly.

 

[oldude]

Exactly.

So I just want to point out that you’re commenting on your own post……not that there’s anything wrong with that…….