Dont want to hear it

[HuskyHawk]

The past 2 years have been "treading water"?

Sure...treading water while holding on to a large anchor.

 

[Pudge]

Did you talk to a player that said it was foolish? So interesting people with such strong takes on either side arguing from gut instincts...

This is BIGTIME College Basketball. You don't win a National Championship with poor strategy and coaching; and that does not diminish leadership one bit. Players do not coach. As I said: Kevin Ollie did a wonderful job. That does not excuse the mediocre product / team play we see today. Both things can be true.

 

[Pudge]

Geno recruits parents for a reason. If KO didn't see the Jackson train wreck, it is ON HIM! If Enoch was a stiff and he chose Enoch then it is ON HIM! Most coaches don't have a team collapse COMPLETELY due to the injury of ONE PLAYER. I don't want an unlucky coach. I want another lucky Irishman or an Italian that makes luck an offer it can't refuse.

ahhh ...

Here is the rub: Kevin Ollie is in his - 6th? - not very experienced in understanding that type of recruiting. The "Right Kind of Guy" stuff. Auriemma, Calhoun, Edsall, Penders ... all of them had years to develop that feel.

If Ollie made big mistakes, shame on us. We expected him to have this cold; the reality is that he started with limited years of evaluation on this component.

 

[DMIL]

Half of those you listed aren't shooters.

Purvis ended up kind of being a shooter but that wasn't the strong part of his game. The biggest knock on MAL during recruiting was his lack of outside shot. Ditto for Adams. Same for Gilbert - the kid is amazing at getting to the rim, but he's not close to being a shooter. Vance could shoot. Durham could step out and hit 15 footers, and had a decent stroke for a big man, but he's not a "shooter".

"Shooters" as I always understood it were guards/wings whose jump shot - almost specifically from 3 - was a major facet of their offensive game and enough to warrant constant attention from defenses on the perimeter.

Point is he has successfully recruited or looked for players that are multi-dimensional ( can play more than one position) and could shoot or develop into a shooter with coaching etc. In balance these are multiple guys that have, had the ability to add a higher level of shooting that we have now which is pretty much non-existent. I'm even including 3 point specialist but if we had one of those that would solve another problem for us. Certainly not trying to get down into a ton of weeds on this just stating that our Coach knows what we need and knows what a shooter is.

 

[polycom]

This is BIGTIME College Basketball. You don't win a National Championship with poor strategy and coaching; and that does not diminish leadership one bit. Players do not coach. As I said: Kevin Ollie did a wonderful job. That does not excuse the mediocre product / team play we see today. Both things can be true.

If you think KO did a wonderful job..you do realize we don't run anything different from when we won a NC...the difference is the players. Secondly you can absolutely win a NC with relative poor strategy/ coaching if you have players are incredibly dominate. Look at Cuse with Melo, UConn with Bazz, UK with Davis, none of those teams ran incredible stuff they had a player who was transcendent in college basketball for that year.

 

[KembaStepback]

Geno recruits parents for a reason. If KO didn't see the Jackson train wreck, it is ON HIM! If Enoch was a stiff and he chose Enoch then it is ON HIM! Most coaches don't have a team collapse COMPLETELY due to the injury of ONE PLAYER. I don't want an unlucky coach. I want another lucky Irishman or an Italian that makes luck an offer it can't refuse.

Please don't bring up Geno. It's apples and oranges. Geno has the luxury of getting whomever he wants. Men's Basketball isn't like that. It's just not. You really think luck is a thing? Yeah...that's a good reason to fire someone...

 

[KembaStepback]

I agree with you about Ollie totally. The thing that I realize is that people that don't aren't going to change their minds. I as a fanatical fan that would read anything about uconn found the bone yard and read but never posted until I heard from other media sources that Uconn fans wanted Ollie fired. Then I signed up. I am a Uconn fan and I don't want Ollie fired! Make sure my voice is heard as well. I have tried to sway others by telling them how stupid they are for wanting Ollie fired. Talk them off the ledge so to speak but then I realized I am arguing with people that I have a lot in common with. Everyone at my house thinks I'm crazy, wife four kids. At work everyone knows I am all about Uconn men's basketball more than any other sport that I am a fan of. I love every player and coach that we ever had since I've been a fa.n really followed every game since 1990 before that just what my father put on. I think it is ok to be critical of every player and coach that we have because I want them to win!! I just don't think Ollie or our program deserves a head coach firing. So no more putting my fellow Uconn crazies down because we disagree. I apologize for any negative statements(I don't think I have been too bad). We have to agree to disagree, but I am tired of everything turning into fire Ollie don't fire Ollie talk. I love the back and forth about what player you like better or what line up Ollie should be running, or play call without going to ... he should be fired because no no he should stay because. Go Uconn!

Look after the season if people want to discuss it, I'm fine with it. I just think Ive heard enough. Don't need to twist the knife more and more after every loss. Every bad thing that happens isn't always on Ollie. I am STRONGLY against a mid-season firing. That would be BEYOND dumb.

 

[Paesano]

ahhh ...

Here is the rub: Kevin Ollie is in his - 6th? - not very experienced in understanding that type of recruiting. The "Right Kind of Guy" stuff. Auriemma, Calhoun, Edsall, Penders ... all of them had years to develop that feel.

If Ollie made big mistakes, shame on us. We expected him to have this cold; the reality is that he started with limited years of evaluation on this component.

No, this is a skill he should have developed by now. It isn't specifically a coaching skill. It is a people skill. If you CAN read people, you will be able to do so by the time you are 30 or so. It takes working with and around other adults for a few years. Most people do not have it in them. And, if you don't, you can't develop it. Ollie clearly doesn't have it so he never will.

 

[notthestuff]

If you think KO did a wonderful job..you do realize we don't run anything different from when we won a NC...the difference is the players. Secondly you can absolutely win a NC with relative poor strategy/ coaching if you have players are incredibly dominate. Look at Cuse with Melo, UConn with Bazz, UK with Davis, none of those teams ran incredible stuff they had a player who was transcendent in college basketball for that year.

For an example of bad coaches who have won a championship you pick two of the most successful coaches of all time? Regardless of titles and how much I dislike them both, they win every year. If the goal is to win consistently, they do it better than just about anyone.

I'd love to know an example of a coach who wins consistently without great players solely on their unbelievable in game strategy.

 

[Paesano]

Please don't bring up Geno. It's apples and oranges. Geno has the luxury of getting whomever he wants. Men's Basketball isn't like that. It's just not. You really think luck is a thing? Yeah...that's a good reason to fire someone...

Stop being an insecure little boy. This specific reference has nothing to do with size, strength or athleticism. It has to do with reading people and knowing who will be toxic and who won't, who will be a leader and who won't, who will work hard and who won't. Geno doesn't always go after the higher ranked, more athletic, more skilled player. He has, and will, take a lesser player with a more team oriented mentality and a more positive attitude. You know who else does that? The coaches at Wichita State and Gonzaga. So did Brad Stevens at Butler. So does Coach K. So does Popavich. So do a lot of other coaches of every sport at levels from D3 to the pros. SO...DID...CALHOUN!!! You know, the GOOD coaches. People don't need to lose their ever *! minds every time someone mentions Geno. Take the apples and oranges and shove them.

 

[CL82]

That championship he won seems like a lifetime ago

Current Year: 2018
Last Natty: - 2014
Difference: 4 years.

That "last championship" is a lifetime ago, if you are preschooler.
(Come to think of it, that makes sense for the instant gratification crowd.)

Put me down in the "fire Ollie at the end of the season" if he fails to make the tournament, which certainly seems likely. I'm as unhappy with the teams execution and progress to date as anyone, but the whole it's been so long since we won a championship argument is silly, IMHO.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

The past 2 years have been "treading water"?

Its mind blowing that there are people on this board that still haven't grasped this. They look at this dumpster fire and say without it we'd all be cold.

 

[Chief00]

Ollie is soft. The team is soft. Forget shooting or offensive sets. Not completely but they are secondary.

Ollie built an NBA career by putting his head down, working hard, never complaining and never giving up. He was selfless, a great teammate. He didn't cause any trouble. He deferred to the leaders on his teams. He listened to coaches and was self motivated. He exemplified being a good pro. He was all about basketball and team all the time. He was selfless yet carried himself with class.

He now has a much different job. JC, Bobby Knight, Coach K, these guys are obnoxious. They are not likable. They yell, swear, complain, are demonstrative, they ride the refs, they get technical fouls and kicked out of games. Sometimes they pull the starters and put in walk ons. They go right to the line and bully players. They are not nice.

When was the last time Ollie used a technical foul to motivate his team or put a ref on notice? I can't recall ever. He only receives technicals when he loses his cool. When he can't control himself. He doesn't understand that technicals are tools. I don't recall Kevin ever grabbing a kid by the shirt to get his attention. Hell, I don't remember ever seeing him mad.

The things that made Kevin valuable in the NBA are not the things that will make him valuable as a college coach. The things that made him survive in the NBA, now make him look passive. Fighting quietly doesn't look like fighting at all. Being under control looks like lack of passion. Courtesy comes off as surrender. Respecting the refs is much less important than defending your players.

Unfortunately, the things that set an example as a player, send the wrong message as the coach. The players reflect his softness not his work ethic.

Can KO evolve as a coach? Become a mean, tough, SOB? Respect is great but fear is better, can he instill it? That will eventually determine his future success.

When we see an mean, tough SOB standing in front of the bench berating a ref, that will be progress to me.

Some good observations, I don’t agree with everything but it’s true different jobs require different competencies.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Geno doesn't always go after the higher ranked, more athletic, more skilled player. He has, and will, take a lesser player with a more team oriented mentality and a more positive attitude.

Just out of curiosity, who are the "lesser players" in this current iteration of the women's team, because looking at their bios, we must be working with different definitions of the word.

 

[PAHusky]

Point is he has successfully recruited or looked for players that are multi-dimensional ( can play more than one position) and could shoot or develop into a shooter with coaching etc. In balance these are multiple guys that have, had the ability to add a higher level of shooting that we have now which is pretty much non-existent. I'm even including 3 point specialist but if we had one of those that would solve another problem for us. Certainly not trying to get down into a ton of weeds on this just stating that our Coach knows what we need and knows what a shooter is.

I think KO obviously knows what a shooter is, but does he know what we need? Has he done a good job of getting it?

He's recruited multi positional players, I'll give you that. When you say "In balance these are multiple guys that have, had the ability to add a higher level of shooting that we have now which is pretty much non-existent" then you have to ask yourself - where are these guys? Who in this lineup has a high caliber of shooting? If there aren't any - which I would contend is true - then why aren't there any high level shooters on this team? Either he didn't recruit them successfully, or he didn't develop them successfully. It's an indictment of KO either way.

I think that KO has a general idea of what he's looking for, which you identified as athletic players who can play multiple positions. This recruiting hasn't really translated into success on the court. Do you think next year's recruiting class solves any of the issues from this year's team? Is it enough to put the program back on an upward trajectory?

 

[PAHusky]

I agree with you about Ollie totally. The thing that I realize is that people that don't aren't going to change their minds. I as a fanatical fan that would read anything about uconn found the bone yard and read but never posted until I heard from other media sources that Uconn fans wanted Ollie fired. Then I signed up. I am a Uconn fan and I don't want Ollie fired! Make sure my voice is heard as well. I have tried to sway others by telling them how stupid they are for wanting Ollie fired. Talk them off the ledge so to speak but then I realized I am arguing with people that I have a lot in common with. Everyone at my house thinks I'm crazy, wife four kids. At work everyone knows I am all about Uconn men's basketball more than any other sport that I am a fan of. I love every player and coach that we ever had since I've been a fa.n really followed every game since 1990 before that just what my father put on. I think it is ok to be critical of every player and coach that we have because I want them to win!! I just don't think Ollie or our program deserves a head coach firing. So no more putting my fellow Uconn crazies down because we disagree. I apologize for any negative statements(I don't think I have been too bad). We have to agree to disagree, but I am tired of everything turning into fire Ollie don't fire Ollie talk. I love the back and forth about what player you like better or what line up Ollie should be running, or play call without going to ... he should be fired because no no he should stay because. Go Uconn!

Your level of fandom is commendable, and welcome to the Boneyard.

However, college hoops is a big time business. Everything turns into a fire/don't fire KO conversation because he's put a sub par product on the court for a few years now and this year isn't much better. Our program doesn't deserve a head coach firing? We don't deserve to be mediocre for years either. It's a difference in perspective.

Wanting KO fired doesn't mean you're any less of a fan of the program, nor does wanting to keep KO means that you have some sort of UConn loyalty that counts for more than any other fan

 

[Paesano]

Just out of curiosity, who are the "lesser players" in this current iteration of the women's team, because looking at their bios, we must be working with different definitions of the word.

I grant you, it is all relative. Whether you are taking #10 instead of #5 or #100 instead of #50, the reason you are making that choice is what matters. Differences in ability between similarly ranked players are bigger at the elite level than they are in the 50-100 range. In the end, you need to be able to spot "the right players" "that want to be here". It isn't just about raw physical ability.

 

[DMIL]

I think KO obviously knows what a shooter is, but does he know what we need? Has he done a good job of getting it?

He's recruited multi positional players, I'll give you that. When you say "In balance these are multiple guys that have, had the ability to add a higher level of shooting that we have now which is pretty much non-existent" then you have to ask yourself - where are these guys? Who in this lineup has a high caliber of shooting? If there aren't any - which I would contend is true - then why aren't there any high level shooters on this team? Either he didn't recruit them successfully, or he didn't develop them successfully. It's an indictment of KO either way.

I think that KO has a general idea of what he's looking for, which you identified as athletic players who can play multiple positions. This recruiting hasn't really translated into success on the court. Do you think next year's recruiting class solves any of the issues from this year's team? Is it enough to put the program back on an upward trajectory?

Well, we know part of the reason it has not translated on the court with those being the recruit transfers and core injuries 2 years in a row. The lack of having a true PG has forced a situation where KO has had to utilize key players out of the their natural position. Gilbert was supposed to be that rock. A healthy Gilbert increases our team shooting percentage. Larrier is basically a sophomore and isn't playing fully to his ability yet. His injury takes a couple of years to truly recover from. We are getting o.k. production from him now but not to his potential i.e. timing, feel etc. He is not to the point yet where he can take over a game. Again, the lack of a true PG being about to give him the ball within the natural flow of the game in his sweet spots is a another key factor for him. yes, the players that transferred out impact us right now; it's a multi year set back. The players we have coming in address needs at PG, Shooting and size. These guys are a fit for what we want to run. The 6' 10" guy specifically adds maturity, basketball IQ, shooting and passing out of the post to cutters and shooters.

 

[intlzncster]

No it wouldn't, it would just look like players making things work out of nothing. That isn't an NBA level offense.

It would like like an NBA offense from 10-15 years ago. Not from today.

It's not like they need to mirror an NBA offense. A lot of programs are running the same offenses and defenses they have for years.

This offense works in college--the defenses aren't remotely the same as the NBA--if you have the players to execute it. And the better your guys are, the more you can add to it.

KO's problem is that he hasn't adjusted to his personnel. He has who he has so you might as well tailor your offense to what you got. He's too stubborn.

I'm not advocating to keep this style of offense mind you; I'm just saying it would still work fine with the right guys. You're telling me that JC's offense, which used to crush Syracuse, couldn't do the same thing now with the right talent?

I'd rather shift to a more modern style, for recruiting as much as anything, but if they instituted that with this personnel, it wouldn't produce any better end result.

 

[DMIL]

Well, we know part of the reason it has not translated on the court with those being the recruit transfers and core injuries 2 years in a row. The lack of having a true PG has forced a situation where KO has had to utilize key players out of the their natural position. Gilbert was supposed to be that rock. A healthy Gilbert increases our team shooting percentage. Larrier is basically a sophomore and isn't playing fully to his ability yet. His injury takes a couple of years to truly recover from. We are getting o.k. production from him now but not to his potential i.e. timing, feel etc. He is not to the point yet where he can take over a game. Again, the lack of a true PG being about to give him the ball within the natural flow of the game in his sweet spots is a another key factor for him. yes, the players that transferred out impact us right now; it's a multi year set back. The players we have coming in address needs at PG, Shooting and size. These guys are a fit for what we want to run. The 6' 10" guy specifically adds maturity, basketball IQ, shooting and passing out of the post to cutters and shooters.

Also because we don't have tru upper class man that can also teach the young recruits it compounds the situation quite a bit. That lack of leadership jumps out even more so and it is painful to watch. But if you step back and really evaluate the vision and how all of these pieces between classes work together you can clearly see the holes and why our product looks as bad as it does. It looks horrible but it's not really as bad as it looks. Once the holes are addressed then we can build some depth at key positions. Right now we have some good role players but they are young so they will be inconsistent.

 

[Pudge]

If you think KO did a wonderful job..you do realize we don't run anything different from when we won a NC...the difference is the players. Secondly you can absolutely win a NC with relative poor strategy/ coaching if you have players are incredibly dominate. Look at Cuse with Melo, UConn with Bazz, UK with Davis, none of those teams ran incredible stuff they had a player who was transcendent in college basketball for that year.

Baloney

You are what you produce ... and to denigrate a National Championship is a foolish task.

KO did a great job. The last 40 games I’ve watched? I’m SAD. There are aspects of coaching he’s not good at.

 

[polycom]

Baloney

You are what you produce ... and to denigrate a National Championship is a foolish task.

KO did a great job. The last 40 games I’ve watched? I’m SAD. There are aspects of coaching he’s not good at.

So, KO went from NC coach to not being able to get above .500 in 5 seasons, if that is what you choose to believe thats cool.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Baloney

You are what you produce ... and to denigrate a National Championship is a foolish task.

KO did a great job. The last 40 games I’ve watched? I’m SAD. There are aspects of coaching he’s not good at.

So, KO went from NC coach to not being able to get above .500 in 5 seasons, if that is what you choose to believe thats cool.

He had two good seasons, one of which was great. For both of those seasons he had JC attending all the practices and experienced former head coaches on the bench. Coincidence? Since those coaches are gone, and JC stopped helping, the team has been pretty bad. Coincidence? He also had players almost entirely recruited by Calhoun those two seasons. Coincidence?

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not like they need to mirror an NBA offense. A lot of programs are running the same offenses and defenses they have for years.

This offense works in college--the defenses aren't remotely the same as the NBA--if you have the players to execute it. And the better your guys are, the more you can add to it.

KO's problem is that he hasn't adjusted to his personnel. He has who he has so you might as well tailor your offense to what you got. He's too stubborn.

I'm not advocating to keep this style of offense mind you; I'm just saying it would still work fine with the right guys. You're telling me that JC's offense, which used to crush Syracuse, couldn't do the same thing now with the right talent?

I'd rather shift to a more modern style, for recruiting as much as anything, but if they instituted that with this personnel, it wouldn't produce any better end result.

Mostly agree, but there are two points. 1. I don't agree with the bolded part. I think they could have been much better. 2. Even with the talent Calhoun had, I think that, in general, his later teams would have been more successful on offense running a different system. Teams like 2004 and 1999 were too loaded to be anything but great and the game hadn't yet shifted.

 

[Pudge]

I don’t know that WE can assume that Calhoun isn’t intimately involved these days. Practices. An ear? If it was me - my legacy - I’m there. Plus it’s Kevin. Something is wrong; kicking Glen Miller out (after Karl Hobbs left) didn’t solve it.

We have a culture. It’s clear to me that there still are good players ... but they aren’t developing as well nor playing well together. And they aren’t dominating boards or getting 50/50 balls.

This. The buyout tells me that UConn can’t do it. The LEGACY tells me that we will get important change.