Don't mean to start a men vs women thing, but...

[OneTrickPony]

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Don't mean to piss off HuskyNan, but ... () how come women are such lousy sports fans?

In general, women are a small percentage of the live crowd. I'm talking across all sports. My current working hypothesis is that sports don't mean as much to women as it does to men (a substitute for war). And I don't think it is likely to change significantly in the future.

I thought the Cesspool was the substitute for war...?

 

[Waquoit]

Maybe Maya Moore will be the one with just the right mix of athleticism and personality to bring WBB into the public consciousness the way Olga Korbut and Nadia Comaneci did for gymnastics and Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill did for figure skating.

It already happened. It was Rebecca Lobo and the 1995 Huskies. She led the way to the establishment of the WNBA. But like the other sports you mentioned, interest has reached a peak.

 

[OneTrickPony]

It already happened. It was Rebecca Lobo and the 1996 Huskies. She led the way to the establishment of the WNBA. But like the other sports you mentioned, interest has reached a peak.

That was being said about both the NBA and MLB...why can't we can have multiple peaks, as well.

 

[Vowelguy]

OK, but what is your answer to the fact that ESPN said NOTHING about the women's game, while devoting plenty of minutes to the men's game, plus discussions by their talking heads about the upcoming men's game vs. Spain.

I thought that was far more egregious than the headline.

That seems like an easy one, as the men's team has super popular NBA stars like Kobe and Lebron. Not only is WBB a niche sport, I'm not sure how much of that niche overlaps with ESPN's target audience.

 

[Wonkster]

That was being said about both the NBA and MLB...why can't we can have multiple peaks, as well.

Talk about gender discrimination! Why is it that women get to have multiple peaks, but it's quite difficult for men to achieve?

 

[OneTrickPony]

Talk about gender discrimination! Why is it that women get to have multiple peaks, but it's quite difficult for men to achieve?

Darn Wonkster...I studiously avoid saying Twin Peaks and you have to go blow it!

 

[RadyLady]

"USA stuffs Turkey" would have been better.

THIS post I want to like a million times!!!!

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

 

[OneTrickPony]

THIS post I want to like a million times!!!!

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

Beat you to it, RadyLady!

 

[vtcwbuff]

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Don't mean to piss off HuskyNan, but ... () how come women are such lousy sports fans?

In general, women are a small percentage of the live crowd. I'm talking across all sports. My current working hypothesis is that sports don't mean as much to women as it does to men (a substitute for war). And I don't think the situation is likely to change significantly in the future.

Can I double like this. I have been saying that for years. If women spent 10% of their cosmetic budgets ( est 7-8 billion a year) supporting women athletes there wouldn't be the such a disparity.

 

[ursusminor]

Can I double like this. I have been saying that for years. If women spent 10% of their cosmetic budgets ( est 7-8 billion a year) supporting women athletes there wouldn't be the such a disparity.

Well, if women weren't judged so much on the way they looked, and pressured into imitating photoshopped supermodels, by an essentially patriarchal society, they wouldn't spend so much on cosmetics. They'd probably also have more time for going to sports events and spend less time at home taking care of things so that the men can go out.

I also find broad, sweeping generalizations about women fans to be veering dangerously close to rude and condescending. I'm the one who remembers to turn on the hockey game in our place, even though it's my husband who actually grew up a hockey fan. I go to volleyball and basketball games on the Maryland campus simply to be able to watch a game, even though I have no interest in which team wins or loses. The idea that sports mean less to me than the men in my family, with the possible exception of my uncle who pays to get NESN in Philly so he can watch the Red Sox lose, is utterly laughable.

 

[Waquoit]

The idea that sports mean less to me than the men in my family, with the possible exception of my uncle who pays to get NESN in Philly so he can watch the Red Sox lose, is utterly laughable.

No doubt many women are sports fans. I knew my mother was a fan of the old NY Football Giants and my dad was a Johnny Unitas fans. However, I just last year found out that that they almost broke up over the 1958 NFL Championship. If my mother wasn't such a good sport I wouldn't be here on this board!

The fact is, however that men overall are bigger sports fans and I've read they support women's sports in bigger numbers than women do. Figure skating is the only sport that has more female than male fans. Men are doing their part to support women's sports.

 

[Wonkster]

Well, if women weren't judged so much on the way they looked, and pressured into imitating photoshopped supermodels, by an essentially patriarchal society, they wouldn't spend so much on cosmetics. They'd probably also have more time for going to sports events and spend less time at home taking care of things so that the men can go out...

So you're saying women weren't competitive with each other over men before supermodels and Photoshop first appeared in world history?

My ex was a great sports fan - it was one of the many things that were distinctive about her. I often wondered why more girls weren't clever enough to see that possibility and fake interest in sports; they'd have twice as many male pursuers. I should add that girls in Ohio seem to have learned this lesson. On a trip to the Buckeye State last year I observed slews of girls watching football on TV and vigorously participating in football discussions with guys. I was amazed.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Well, if women weren't judged so much on the way they looked, and pressured into imitating photoshopped supermodels, by an essentially patriarchal society, they wouldn't spend so much on cosmetics. They'd probably also have more time for going to sports events and spend less time at home taking care of things so that the men can go out.

I also find broad, sweeping generalizations about women fans to be veering dangerously close to rude and condescending. I'm the one who remembers to turn on the hockey game in our place, even though it's my husband who actually grew up a hockey fan. I go to volleyball and basketball games on the Maryland campus simply to be able to watch a game, even though I have no interest in which team wins or loses. The idea that sports mean less to me than the men in my family, with the possible exception of my uncle who pays to get NESN in Philly so he can watch the Red Sox lose, is utterly laughable.

Your "dangerously close to rude and condescending" comes across as defensive. Do you really think that women spend money on cosmetics because they are driven to do so "by a patriarchal" society ? Women are pressured by other women. In general women don't dress for men they dress because they know they are being judged by other women.

My comment about the lack of women supporting women's athletics was a generality and not directed at anyone. If you support women's sports well bully for you, but you are in a minority. The main reason why women's sports struggle in the marketplace is because most women have little if any interest in sports.

 

[vtcwbuff]

...since I've already started down that path with the Opals thread, why, I'll just keep going.

I was on the USABasketball.com site this morning and was struck by these two headlines:

USA Men's Fast Start Paves Way To 86-80 Win Against Argentina
USA Women Pluck Win From Upset-Minded Turkey

Which team was it that won by 19?

Well, ya' did!

 

[ursusminor]

Your "dangerously close to rude and condescending" comes across as defensive. Do you really think that women spend money on cosmetics because they are driven to do so "by a patriarchal" society ? Women are pressured by other women. In general women don't dress for men they dress because they know they are being judged by other women.

You're right, I am defensive. Women are pressured by society, and indeed mostly other women, to conform to a standard of appearance that is based on what a male would find attractive - because this is still a patriarchal society. I don't think implicitly criticizing cosmetic spending contributes anything to the discussion of sports fans; shall I look up how much money the (mostly male) consumer market spends on adult entertainment, and suggest their money is better spent elsewhere?

Women have less interest in sports at least partly because, even still, there are parts of this country where girls are criticized for being "unladylike" at best for picking up a ball.

 

[ursusminor]

So you're saying women weren't competitive with each other over men before supermodels and Photoshop first appeared in world history?

No, I was commenting that the modern cosmetics industry is largely driven by that type of marketing. Before that they were competitive with each other because convincing a man to marry them and not some other girl was literally the only reliable way to secure a decent living.

 

[UConnChapette]

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Don't mean to piss off HuskyNan, but ... () how come women are such lousy sports fans?

In general, women are a small percentage of the live crowd. I'm talking across all sports. My current working hypothesis is that sports don't mean as much to women as it does to men (a substitute for war). And I don't think the situation is likely to change significantly in the future.

I love the fact that I don't fit into generalities. In my house, I am the sports fan. I watch 100% more ESPN than my husband or two sons. The males in my family don't give a hoot about most sports - except my Yellow Jacket who has been known to go all in as a Georgia Tech football fan.

BTW - he also spends a lot more on hair and makeup than I do:

 

[VAUConnFan]

Can I double like this. I have been saying that for years. If women spent 10% of their cosmetic budgets ( est 7-8 billion a year) supporting women athletes there wouldn't be the such a disparity.

Whether it was intended or not, this thread has become a men vs women thing. One cannot help but appreciate the boldness of comments that might easily find a married man relegated to the couch.

 

[VAUConnFan]

No, I was commenting that the modern cosmetics industry is largely driven by that type of marketing. Before that they were competitive with each other because convincing a man to marry them and not some other girl was literally the only reliable way to secure a decent living.

For what it's worth, I feel that far too many razors are being sold to women these days.

 

[ursusminor]

vtcwbuff: You touched upon, very broadly, a subject that I do get vocal and defensive about. In the future, I will try to be less defensive and more ... eloquent as to why it bothers me. Can't make any promises.

I want to expand on what I mentioned in my last reply, which is actually tangentially related to both your cosmetics comment and the actual thread topic as a whole. For various reasons, girls and women participation in sports is not generally as high as men. I believe that people used to think (and I don't have a source to cite handy) that women couldn't physically run long distance - certainly not, say, a marathon - because it would damage their uterus.

One article I've found suggests that roughly equal numbers of girls and boys play organized sports in elementary school, but as kids become teens, there are more boys playing than girls. Some studies suggest that this is because playing sports is not seen as "feminine" and girls feel pressure to quit playing in order to fit in. Joan Benoit Samuelson, who won the world's first gold medal for women's marathon at the 1984 Olympics, has commented that when she was a kid, "girls just didn't run in public". A study in Britain showed that young girls are less active than young boys. One private school in Arizona chose to forfeit a state baseball championship rather than play a team that had a girl player (she played baseball because her school has no softball team). I can cite where I found most of this information if people are interested.

This is a long-winded way of saying that perhaps the shortage of female fans is related to the lack of female athletic opportunities in the past. I am certainly such a fan of sports because I played, and I'm the biggest fan of the specific sports that I most enjoyed playing. As gender equality in youth athletics has and continues to improve, perhaps we will also see more women sitting in the stands, cheering athletes on and talking happily of their glory days on the court and field in high school.

 

[Wonkster]

Anyone who has spent an entire lunchtime with HuskyBill is no milquetoast!

Probably certifies the party in question as a masochist!

 

[blackbird]

...since I've already started down that path with the Opals thread, why, I'll just keep going.

I was on the USABasketball.com site this morning and was struck by these two headlines:

USA Men's Fast Start Paves Way To 86-80 Win Against Argentina
USA Women Pluck Win From Upset-Minded Turkey

Which team was it that won by 19?

to be fair to the men, Argentina actually is supposed to have a shot at beating them.

 

[JS]

The fact is, however that men overall are bigger sports fans and I've read they support women's sports in bigger numbers than women do.

FWIW, the last time we took a census it showed 60-65 percent of posters on this board were men.

 

[Wonkster]

... perhaps the shortage of female fans is related to the lack of female athletic opportunities in the past. I am certainly such a fan of sports because I played, and I'm the biggest fan of the specific sports that I most enjoyed playing. As gender equality in youth athletics has and continues to improve, perhaps we will also see more women sitting in the stands, cheering athletes on and talking happily of their glory days on the court and field in high school.

I think that's entirely likely. My sportsfan ex played field hockey in high school. This notion has been used before in the following fashion:

"Why does my husband watch so much football?"
"What would you rather he do?"
"Take me to the ballet."
"Why do you like to watch ballet?"
"I took ballet lessons almost all the way through grammar school. I love to watch talented dancers who perform so exquisitely well."
"Do you think your husband might like to watch football players who play at a level far beyond what he was able to reach?"

My oldest daughter had a natural talent for running. When I could no longer catch her in a chase around the house after some piece of mischief, I suggested that she consider trying out for her high school track team. After several such suggestion/reminders, I asked her why she had not applied. Her answer? "I don't want to get all sweaty." However, when her friends made the same suggestion, she soon tried out for the team. She wound up first team All Suffolk County in cross country, and in college made women's crew. I told her I was really proud of her.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I can't imagine why on earth women (who actually will out number men, viewing the Olympics) aren't better fans of women's sports.

It couldn't have anything to do with history - what with, for example, women's competitive high school basketball being wiped out in the mid-30's. I mean, if THAT doesn't tell women to watch women's sports, I don't know what does?

It couldn't have anything to do with what's on TV - what with, for example, the majority of sports broadcast being of the male type. I mean, why wasn't every woman a UConn fan BEFORE Rebecca Lobo got on TV?

It couldn't have anything to do with coverage -- I mean, if you look hard enough you'll find a blog or two that covers women's athletics. Sure, ESPN won't send Mechelle Voepel to cover the US team, but really, won't you be just as satisfied with AP Doug? He's pretty good. And working hard will keep him out of trouble.

It couldn't have anything to do with missing role models. I mean, women have had forty years of Title IX, fer cryin' out loud. Granted, most universities and high schools aren't in compliance, but honestly, how long does it take to catch up to 100+ years of men's athletics?

It couldn't have anything to do with free time. I mean, really, I understand that in most (hetero) couples both work full time jobs and the woman is still does the greater part of the childcare and housekeeping, but really, if the WANTED to be sports fans they'd find the time.