Dom Amore: If Big 12 calls, UConn will have to choose between Big East love and Power Five money.

[Billy Jack]

They don't need to and won't. It was the best conference the last two years. It loses UT but adds Houston, which has been better the last decade or so. Cinci is down but is historically strong, better than OU. Now, take that, and add UConn and Arizona. It just blows the doors off any league in the country. Now, if the people who see the ACC picked apart are right (I doubt it), there is potential to add Duke.

Houston has NOT been better than UT over the past decade according to Ken Pom. His average national rank for UT over the past decade has been 34.2 vs 51.3 for Houston.

When was Cinci better than Oklahoma? The 1960s? OU went to a Final Four just 7 yeas ago. Before that went to F4’s in 2002 and in 1988. They’ve consistently gone to the tournament in the open era - a total of 30 tournaments (6 Elite 8’s & 11 Sweet 16’s) in 45 years, starting in 1979.

In that same time Cinci’s been to one F4 - way back in 1992. Since 1979, they’ve been to 23 tournaments (3 Elite 8’s & 5 Sweet 16’s. Historically they had a great run in the 1950s & 1960s, but they have not been a stronger program than OU in more recent times.

 

[HooperScooper]

Their website says 32.

You're right, it does. But they have 30 teams listed on their athletics page - 15 men's and 15 women's. It's a great school but I guess they're not great at math. I'm guessing they dropped 2 sports relatively recently and they didn't update the page that says 32 sports.

 

[Billy Jack]

Many athletes on scholarship require not only academic assistance, but all require administration to track and report progress. This all costs a great deal of money.

So, you’re saying that it’s not the scholarships which cost money but the support services?

 

[Billy Jack]

I can't answer your major question. I wasn't responding to that part of your post.

But I don't think you understand how small elite liberal arts schools give financial aid. I happen to know a lot about it. I will leave it that and not respond any further.

Okay. Thanks for responding.

 

[ctchamps]

They have 30 listed on their athletics page. It's a great school but I guess they're not great at math.

More like they have a great marketing program!

 

[Billy Jack]

Yes, it absolutley should, but CR has blown it all up and it is only going to get worse. USC and UCLA will have to travel across 3 and 4 time zones to play everyone except each other. Oregon and Washington will likely be in a similar situation. Ideally UConn would end up in the Big 12 with other eastern programs joining later. But it has to make a move soon before other P5 programs grab all the seats.

Given that situation, the ACC would seem to be the best fit for

For the poster bringing up Williams College, they probably take buses to all away games so sure, it's a lot cheaper to run a D III program.

Yeah, I get the D III thing. I just threw that in to contrast a school running 32 sports teams without state support to a school running 22 teams with a $53 million deficit. New England & NY flagships are running their programs without such a deficit. None if them have our revenue. Something’s wrong somewhere.

 

[Kolumbo]

You're right, it does. But they have 30 teams listed on their athletics page - 15 men's and 15 women's. It's a great school but I guess they're not great at math. I'm guessing they dropped 2 sports relatively recently and they didn't update the page that says 32 sports.

Their website says 32.

Track & Field is split into 2 each for Men & Women, Indoor & Outdoor, but listed once each on its sports website.

Williams Ephs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Billy Jack]

Track & Field is split into 2 each for Men & Women, Indoor & Outdoor, but listed once each on its sports website.

Williams Ephs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks. Mystery solved.

 

[auror]

Houston has NOT been better than UT over the past decade according to Ken Pom. His average national rank for UT over the past decade has been 34.2 vs 51.3 for Houston.

This is one of those times where median is probably better than average due to outliers.

Houston - 15
Texas - 31

Houston had 1 200+ season in Kelvin's first year mixed in with 6 top 20 seasons. Texas was pretty consistently 20-40 but had their best season this past season (2 top 20 seasons).

 

[Kolumbo]

Given that situation, the ACC would seem to be the best fit for


Yeah, I get the D III thing. I just threw that in to contrast a school running 32 sports teams without state support to a school running 22 teams with a $53 million deficit. New England & NY flagships are running their programs without such a deficit. None if them have our revenue. Something’s wrong somewhere.

Sure we'd all prefer the ACC but it's on lockdown.

I don't know about anyone else's financials but in the case of Williams, it's like a very large high school with it's share of millionaires for alumni. I'm sure that helps. Maybe they save money by avoiding the mass pike.

 

[temery]

So, you’re saying that it’s not the scholarships which cost money but the support services?

 

[Billy Jack]

This is one of those times where median is probably better than average due to outliers.

Houston - 15
Texas - 31

Houston had 1 200+ season in Kelvin's first year mixed in with 6 top 20 seasons. Texas was pretty consistently 20-40 but had their best season this past season (2 top 20 seasons).

Well, if you want to rate Sampson, then your median makes perfect sense. But if the point is to rate the University of Houston’s basketball program, then it’s the Sampson years that are the outlier. Let’s not look just at the past decade but let’s look at the 2 decades before that as well, in which Houston had only 9 seasons with a winning record. Before Sampson got them to the NCAA tournament in 2018, Houston had gone 25 years with just one tournament appearance.

The idea that Houston has been a better program than Texas in any reasonable time frame is just ludicrous unless we’re going back almost 40 years to Phi Slama Jama and beyond. Texas has been to 29 NCAA tournaments in the last 35 years. Houston has been to 8. Both have been to 1 Final Four, but Texas has been to 5 Elite 8’s and Houston has been to 2.

 

[auror]

Well, if you want to rate Sampson, then your median makes perfect sense. But if the point is to rate the University of Houston’s basketball program, then it’s the Sampson years that are the outlier. Let’s not look just at the past decade but let’s look at the 2 decades before that as well, in which Houston had only 9 seasons with a winning record. Before Sampson got them to the NCAA tournament in 2018, Houston had gone 25 years with just one tournament appearance.

The idea that Houston has been a better program than Texas in any reasonable time frame is just ludicrous unless we’re going back almost 40 years to Phi Slama Jama and beyond. Texas has been to 29 NCAA tournaments in the last 35 years. Houston has been to 8. Both have been to 1 Final Four, but Texas has been to 5 Elite 8’s and Houston has been to 2.

If you don't think a decade is a reasonable timeframe, then we're not going to find common ground.

 

[Billy Jack]

If you don't think a decade is a reasonable timeframe, then we're not going to find common ground.

But it’s not even a decade. Houston has been a top program for 6 years. That’s it. Six years. Before that, it drops off a cliff. One NCAA tournament in 25 years.

What this says to me is that Sampson is a great coach, not that Houston is a great program. I have confidence that Hiuston will continue to excell as long as Sampson is the coach. But Sampson will be 68 at the start of next season, so his days/years are numbered.

The decision re conference membership is not about the current coach but whether the school shows any indication that it can sustain success over time. Houston has not shown that.

Joining the Big XII if that’s offered is probably the right decision - but not because Houston is a great program.

 

[auror]

But it’s not even a decade. Houston has been a top program for 6 years. That’s it. Six years. Before that, it drops off a cliff. One NCAA tournament in 25 years.

What this says to me is that Sampson is a great coach, not that Houston is a great program. I have confidence that Hiuston will continue to excell as long as Sampson is the coach. But Sampson will be 68 at the start of next season, so his days/years are numbered.

The decision re conference membership is not about the current coach but whether the school shows any indication that it can sustain success over time. Houston has not shown that.

Joining the Big XII if that’s offered is probably the right decision - but not because Houston is a great program.

Houston has finished ahead of Texas every year for 7 straight years on KenPom. Historically they have double the number of FInal Fours and more Sweet 16s.

Houston is a good program now with a bright future. It's in a fertile recruiting area with 2 strong periods of history and the same number of Final Fours as us. It's bankrolled by a billionaire basketball fan that owns an NBA team. And when I say bankrolled, I don't mean like "he likes the program and donates occasionally", I mean he's the Chairman of the Board of Regents for the University. His name is on the arena courtesy of the renovation they did 6 years ago. The facilities are top notch. Officially, they spend a similar amount on basketball as us. Unofficially, they got a nice transfer haul this year including a top 5 transfer.

Houston has shown that when they're not banished into Conference USA due to the Southwest conference breaking up, they're a good program. The city's population has doubled in the last 30 years. They're in the #7 media market. 38k undergrads. They're a very good addition to a basketball league with eyes on the now and the future. In the short term, they're going to be better than Texas (I don't think Terry is all that great), and it's not like they have a high bar to clear to equal Texas' impact historically. We're not talking about replacing Duke or Kentucky here. Before this past year, Texas hadn't made a Sweet 16 in the last 14 years.

 

[freescooter]

I agree with all you’ve said here. Doesn’t the university at some point have to consider the fact that these are full time students? When 9 of the other 12 opponents are west of the Mississippi and in a different time zone, is traveling to these road games compatible with being a full time student? One opponent is 2000+ air miles and 2 time zones away. None are in the Northeast. The Bug East includes only one opponent west of the Mississippi and only 3 in a different time zone.

LOLOLOL. Like anyone at any D1 athletic department is worried about academics of “full time students.” With the portal, even the athletes don’t care. When you follow players now they don’t say X graduates this year. They say X used up his eligibility.

 

[The Yakk]

This is one of those times where median is probably better than average due to outliers.

Houston - 15
Texas - 31

Houston had 1 200+ season in Kelvin's first year mixed in with 6 top 20 seasons. Texas was pretty consistently 20-40 but had their best season this past season (2 top 20 seasons).

The guy you are quoting never fails to cherry-pick the exact stat that supports his feelings.

Do you remember when he proved the reffing at PC's home games was perfectly fair?

If Houston and UT had played home-and-home the last ten years, Houston wins 75% of those games.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The guy you are quoting never fails to cherry-pick the exact stat that supports his feelings.

Do you remember when he proved the reffing at PC's home games was perfectly fair?

If Houston and UT had played home-and-home the last ten years, Houston wins 75% of those games.

Exactly. I work with a group of people that are almost half UT grads. So many of them have Longhorn football helmets behind them on zoom calls, or autographed footballs or jerseys or whatever. It’s a football school.

While several such schools, like Michigan, Ohio State, Florida, UT, Tennessee, LSU and Bama have had basketball success, none of them have sustained it except for Michigan. Penn State had a nice season and the coach bailed. Likewise the historically strong hoops programs occasionally have good football teams, but struggle to sustain it.

 

[mussels]

LOLOLOL. Like anyone at any D1 athletic department is worried about academics of “full time students.” With the portal, even the athletes don’t care. When you follow players now they don’t say X graduates this year. They say X used up his eligibility.

Pretty sure the majority of Division 1 athletes care a great deal. Almost none of the women’s sports and of the majority of mens sports don’t offer a viable realistic path to play professionally. They actually have to study and graduate.

 

[superjohn]

I grew up in Stamford, a city unique in that it had some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the world and a number of housing projects. Having culture commonality requires far more than merely living in a relative geographic proximity.

The Cove (where I grew up) was (to be kind) blue collar during the 1960's and 1970's (I was born in 1960). I described my ethnicity earlier in this thread. Basically the entirety of the Cove at that time was of similar background.

We had far more in common on nearly every level with African Americans who lived in the projects and whose families migrated from the South from the mid 1950's through the early 1960's than we did with the white kids from Shippan or the upper Ridges.

If you think that because Georgetown is in DC and Nova is just outside Ohilly their student bodies would have tremendous similarities to UConn's you're missing quite a bit.

You think UConn and CT has more in common with Baylor and Waco than it does with G'Town/Nova DC and Philly?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You think UConn and CT has more in common with Baylor and Waco than it does with G'Town/Nova DC and Philly?

I will state without question that the run of the mill UConn undergrad would have very little in common with the run of the mill Georgetown or Villanova undergrad.

Baylor would be an outlier when looking at the members of the B-12 due to it being a private, faith led school but there are far more private, faith led schools in the BE than there are in the B-12.

 

[UCann]

Heard some interesting information from someone who attended an event with DH: Apparently, he is not a fan of the Big East and would prefer the Big12 in a major way. Primary reasons include weak leadership within the Big East (the conference itself as well as many of the lower tier schools) and a lower quality of teams, especially at the lower tiers which hurt competition and where losses disproportionately hurt our ranking (compared to a loss to a lower tier Big12 school). He does not think recruiting would be impacted. And on that note, also heard that the target is to raise $3.5M per year to support NIL for just men's bb.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Heard some interesting information from someone who attended an event with DH: Apparently, he is not a fan of the Big East and would prefer the Big12 in a major way. Primary reasons include weak leadership within the Big East (the conference itself as well as many of the lower tier schools) and a lower quality of teams, especially at the lower tiers which hurt competition and where losses disproportionately hurt our ranking (compared to a loss to a lower tier Big12 school). He does not think recruiting would be impacted. And on that note, also heard that the target is to raise $3.5M per year to support NIL for just men's bb.

Idk if any of this is true, but don’t tell that to the pro Big East people. They really think B12 basketball is somehow worse.

 

[noeynox]

Heard some interesting information from someone who attended an event with DH: Apparently, he is not a fan of the Big East and would prefer the Big12 in a major way. Primary reasons include weak leadership within the Big East (the conference itself as well as many of the lower tier schools) and a lower quality of teams, especially at the lower tiers which hurt competition and where losses disproportionately hurt our ranking (compared to a loss to a lower tier Big12 school). He does not think recruiting would be impacted. And on that note, also heard that the target is to raise $3.5M per year to support NIL for just men's bb.

You are going to make a lot of BB 1st fans VERY angry with this post.

 

[Bongo Fury]

Big 12 has more visibility and should check first but imagine have more teams selected to the tournament?