Does Coach K suck?

[Hey Adrien!]

He sucks and he blows.

 

[CL82]

Yes, of course he does.

He's also the greatest college basketball coach of his generation.

 

[JeepCSC]

He is the most accomplished coach this side of Wooden with a huge chunk of his record coming in a 9-year period from ‘86-‘94. His tourney record based on seed since 2000 is somewhere around Steve Alford and Herb Sendak.

Tourney Stats, PASE (Performance Against Seed Expectations) and PAKE

barttorvik.com

 

[Hogoff]

Does the pope poop in the woods?

You can’t be certain he doesn’t.

 

[tentoes4rings]

The guy who never could figure out how to pronounce Kevin Ol-EEE. Thank God he got fired, so we hopefully never have to hear Gillen butcher his name again.

Funny that you’re listing that over the 427 better reasons he should have been fired.

 

[HuskyHawk]

In 2019, I am watching Zion being announced as a basketball God. Transformative. Two other Duke players are expected to go in the top 10. Year after year K puts the best talent in college basketball on the floor. And year after year he comes up short. In 2018 he had three NBA first round picks. In 2017 he had four. You have to go back to 2010 to find a year where Coach K only had one first round pick in the NBA draft. Poor guy.

The embarrassment of riches on the Duke bench is an embarrassment to Coach K. Last time he made he Final Four 2015. In the last nine years he has made the Final Four once. This with a collection of talent that dwarfed the rest of college basketball.

This raises the question. Could a guy off the street do better? How about a marginally talented coach? Say Pete Gillen?

And please, don't tell me his real value is what a great recruiter Coach K is. Dick Vitale and ESPN have been his recruiters since the last century. K has just had to pick and choose.

Experience >>>> talent. Every time. K was better when he avoided the one and done players, or brought in only a few to mix with 4 year guys. Nothing is more important than junior and senior guards. It’s not a coaching issue. Any team of mostly freshmen is going to be amazing at times and meh and times. In a tournament that means you lose the one game you can’t lose.

 

[whaler11]

A thread so stupid it’s embarassing for Palatine.

His 563 ft HR.

 

[Dean Wormer]

Haters

And idiots

 

[tentoes4rings]

Experience >>>> talent. Every time. K was better when he avoided the one and done players, or brought in only a few to mix with 4 year guys. Nothing is more important than junior and senior guards. It’s not a coaching issue. Any team of mostly freshmen is going to be amazing at times and meh and times. In a tournament that means you lose the one game you can’t lose.

It’s really a double edged sword that he can’t avoid at this point. While he may know winning a title may be more difficult this way, nobody in his position would ever refuse all this high level talent. The Zions bring great attendance, huge ratings and a chance at March success, Duke will never retreat from this model now as long as it’s available.

 

[UconnU]

My junior year of high school our football team was supposed to be unbeatable. We returned 20 starters from a team that won our conference and made the the state championship the year before. We ended up losing a couple close games and missing the playoffs. Meeting high expectations is a really difficult task. Hard to criticize anyone or any team that is winning regardless of the talent level.

 

[zepfan]

Coach K does not suck. But he is not as good as Calhoun. Face to face in the final four: Calhoun = 2, Coach K. = 0.

 

[UConnSwag11]

In 2019, I am watching Zion being announced as a basketball God. Transformative. Two other Duke players are expected to go in the top 10. Year after year K puts the best talent in college basketball on the floor. And year after year he comes up short. In 2018 he had three NBA first round picks. In 2017 he had four. You have to go back to 2010 to find a year where Coach K only had one first round pick in the NBA draft. Poor guy.

The embarrassment of riches on the Duke bench is an embarrassment to Coach K. Last time he made he Final Four 2015. In the last nine years he has made the Final Four once. This with a collection of talent that dwarfed the rest of college basketball.

This raises the question. Could a guy off the street do better? How about a marginally talented coach? Say Pete Gillen?

And please, don't tell me his real value is what a great recruiter Coach K is. Dick Vitale and ESPN have been his recruiters since the last century. K has just had to pick and choose.

 

[MuchoDogYears]

If K has 1 Final Four appearance in the last 9 years then the OP has a case.

 

[MrSheldrake]

In 2019, I am watching Zion being announced as a basketball God. Transformative. Two other Duke players are expected to go in the top 10. Year after year K puts the best talent in college basketball on the floor. And year after year he comes up short. In 2018 he had three NBA first round picks. In 2017 he had four. You have to go back to 2010 to find a year where Coach K only had one first round pick in the NBA draft. Poor guy.

The embarrassment of riches on the Duke bench is an embarrassment to Coach K. Last time he made he Final Four 2015. In the last nine years he has made the Final Four once. This with a collection of talent that dwarfed the rest of college basketball.

This raises the question. Could a guy off the street do better? How about a marginally talented coach? Say Pete Gillen?

And please, don't tell me his real value is what a great recruiter Coach K is. Dick Vitale and ESPN have been his recruiters since the last century. K has just had to pick and choose.

There is a simple explanation for this, and that is Koach K is the worst game coach since Lute Olson.

 

[JeepCSC]

Experience >>>> talent. Every time. K was better when he avoided the one and done players, or brought in only a few to mix with 4 year guys. Nothing is more important than junior and senior guards. It’s not a coaching issue. Any team of mostly freshmen is going to be amazing at times and meh and times. In a tournament that means you lose the one game you can’t lose.

K has had multiple upperclassmen led teams with consensus All-Americans and NPOYs fail to get past the S16. Both their Lehigh and Mercer games only saw 1 freshman starter. K’s March schizophrenia this century can’t be explained simply by experience and talent.

 

[TheChamps990411]

So glad to see posters here keeping it real on Coach K. To say Coach K sucks is every bit as stupid as saying "Jim Calhoun was a decent coach but not all time great". Youre asking to not be taken seriously in anything you say.

 

[navery12]

This thread was a poor troll attempt, until people started agreeing

 

[Fishy]

In 2019, I am watching Zion being announced as a basketball God. Transformative. Two other Duke players are expected to go in the top 10. Year after year K puts the best talent in college basketball on the floor. And year after year he comes up short. In 2018 he had three NBA first round picks. In 2017 he had four. You have to go back to 2010 to find a year where Coach K only had one first round pick in the NBA draft. Poor guy.

The embarrassment of riches on the Duke bench is an embarrassment to Coach K. Last time he made he Final Four 2015. In the last nine years he has made the Final Four once. This with a collection of talent that dwarfed the rest of college basketball.

This raises the question. Could a guy off the street do better? How about a marginally talented coach? Say Pete Gillen?

And please, don't tell me his real value is what a great recruiter Coach K is. Dick Vitale and ESPN have been his recruiters since the last century. K has just had to pick and choose.

You have to be a straight-up lunatic to even pose the question.

You, of course, are a straight-up lunatic.

 

[BrassBonanza]

He is the most accomplished coach this side of Wooden with a huge chunk of his record coming in a 9-year period from ‘86-‘94. His tourney record based on seed since 2000 is somewhere around Steve Alford and Herb Sendak.

Tourney Stats, PASE (Performance Against Seed Expectations) and PAKE

barttorvik.com

Jamie Dixon's number are UNBELIEVABLE

 

[Husky68]

You have to be a straight-up lunatic to even pose the question.

You, of course, are a straight-up lunatic.

Not so fast. Looked at the link provided for how teams have done vs. seeding 2000 to 2019, which is how the site loads (doesn't have stats any further back).
Out of 374 coaches listed, Coach K is 369th. This is using the PASE, which is Performance Against Seed Expectations. That does suck.

A potential explanation is that NCAA group vastly over seeds Duke and coach K is a magician to even get to 369th PASE with this giant disadvantage (unrealistic expectations). Offsetting that, It could also be that if Duke was ranked lower (assuming it was over ranked) it might have lost earlier in the tournament due to playing "better" opponents earlier.

Now statistics can be manipulated to some degree so its good to see if there is some rime or reason to some of the other results. Here it seems there is. Examples:

Calhoun - #8. Out of 374 coaches that is very high and kind of expected. Surprised Boehiem has same score and listed as #7.
Cronin - #367. Ahead of coach K. Cronin being this low is hard to do as his teams are not likely to be "over" seeded but seems to make sense with "anecdotal" view of his coaching performance at Cincinnati.
Jamie Dixon -#374. Last. This, like Cronin seems to make sense with his Pittsburgh NCAA team performances.

If coach K had "too high seeding" disadvantage or just a disadvantage at being a high seed (hard to beat expectations of a #1 seed and getting into a lot of tournaments you can't just have an outlier tournament like a Shaka or Ollie to keep this stat high for you) then Williams, Calipari would expect to also be low. Not the case. Calipari is #2 and Williams is #3.

So "Does coach k suck", not sure that is the case in the most general coaching sense. But if you mean:

When looking at 2000 to 2019 coaching W/L performance in the NCAA tournament vs. seeding expectations how did Coach K perform; and this original post seems to be asking that sort of question by stating:

"Year after year K puts the best talent in college basketball on the floor. And year after year he comes up short."

To that question being #369 out of 374 does in fact really, really, really suck. You are looking up at MICK CRONIN!

 

[freescooter]

The freshman thing is really what hurts him in the tourney. Hurts lots of teams. Like Kentucky. You load up on 1-done and you win lots of games but the pressure of the tourney is different and upperclassmen are a necessity to succeed.

 

[Palatine]

Yes, of course he does.

He's also the greatest college basketball coach of his generation.

At best Coach K is an underachiever. Calhoun was better. Give Calhoun his team as and JC hangs twice as may banners.

 

[CL82]

At best Coach K is an underachiever. Calhoun was better. Give Calhoun his team as and JC hangs twice as may banners.

Fully agree, but K got them not JC.

 

[uconndogs]

Fully agree, but K got them not JC.

This! Coach K built Duke to what it is today - wins, talent, exposure, etc.

..........and you simply don't win that many games if you aren't pretty good with Xs and Os.

Now, as a UCONN fan do I a get a kick out of referring to him as "Rat Face"? Of course I do. But, the guy is a terrific coach, among the best ever.

 

[navery12]

Not so fast. Looked at the link provided for how teams have done vs. seeding 2000 to 2019, which is how the site loads (doesn't have stats any further back).
Out of 374 coaches listed, Coach K is 369th. This is using the PASE, which is Performance Against Seed Expectations. That does suck.

A potential explanation is that NCAA group vastly over seeds Duke and coach K is a magician to even get to 369th PASE with this giant disadvantage (unrealistic expectations). Offsetting that, It could also be that if Duke was ranked lower (assuming it was over ranked) it might have lost earlier in the tournament due to playing "better" opponents earlier.

Now statistics can be manipulated to some degree so its good to see if there is some rime or reason to some of the other results. Here it seems there is. Examples:

Calhoun - #8. Out of 374 coaches that is very high and kind of expected. Surprised Boehiem has same score and listed as #7.
Cronin - #367. Ahead of coach K. Cronin being this low is hard to do as his teams are not likely to be "over" seeded but seems to make sense with "anecdotal" view of his coaching performance at Cincinnati.
Jamie Dixon -#374. Last. This, like Cronin seems to make sense with his Pittsburgh NCAA team performances.

If coach K had "too high seeding" disadvantage or just a disadvantage at being a high seed (hard to beat expectations of a #1 seed and getting into a lot of tournaments you can't just have an outlier tournament like a Shaka or Ollie to keep this stat high for you) then Williams, Calipari would expect to also be low. Not the case. Calipari is #2 and Williams is #3.

So "Does coach k suck", not sure that is the case in the most general coaching sense. But if you mean:

When looking at 2000 to 2019 coaching W/L performance in the NCAA tournament vs. seeding expectations how did Coach K perform; and this original post seems to be asking that sort of question by stating:

"Year after year K puts the best talent in college basketball on the floor. And year after year he comes up short."

To that question being #369 out of 374 does in fact really, really, really suck. You are looking up at MICK CRONIN!

A lot of words to just say I don't know basketball