Do we need another Big

[BobbyJ]

Yeah, a game we actually were in danger of losing! The time to play those two is when you have a big lead and are in no danger of losing the game. I mean, it’s not like we are playing well enough this year where he can be confident that reinserting the starters will instantly right the ship.

Exactly. No matter what he throws out to the media about losses possibly being beneficial, he'll never do anything that could possibly lose a game unless it was a disciplinary issue.

 

[jchusky]

I've criticized Geno's recruiting strategy the past 5 years for not getting more true impactful bigs than can play post. The ratio of guards and small forwards to bigs is way too high. Imo, it's the main reason for not winning a title for so long. I can't see winning a title with ONO playing by the paint.

the biggest whiff in Geno's recruiting history will always be Boston, was the perfect player for this team. We would talking about 3-4 ntl titles if she had committed to Uconn

 

[Cuango]

When I hear people complain about the “big” situation I wonder if they are really looking at it objectively. First off, good bigs are much rarer than guards, wings etc. There simply are fewer women of that size. So, you have a smaller pool and more coaches trying to recruit them. Second, really good posts, good hands, good fundamentals, mobile, high motor, smart, ideal size, etc are even more rare. Third, (this one really limits Geno’s options Imo) even with all those attributes/skills they may not be what he is looking for in terms of character, attitude, comportment, responsibility, etc. then you have to deal with family loyalties, perhaps wanting to stay in a particular part of the country, Coach preference, (maybe she wants to play for a certain type of coach), parental wishes/pressure, possible friends she wants to play with etc.

Basically, you have a smaller pool from which to choose, then you add in all the disqualifiers, then you add in all the competing offers, and now the incontrovertible fact that there are simply more good teams for them to choose from, it really becomes obvious how rare a player like Boston, Lee, etc really are and how devastating Boston’s choice was for this program. There is little to no doubt in my mind that had Boston chosen to come here instead of SC, we would be attempting to win number 13 or 14 now rather than 12.

This is in no way critical towards her choice, merely an observation of how rare those kinds of players really are and how fine a line there often is between good, great, and dominant basketball teams. Currently, as far as I can tell, there are two truly physically dominant skilled posts in women’s college basketball! Boston and Lee. One, Boston was expected to be great while the other, Lee from Kansas State, was not even ranked as far as I can tell. It’s an inexact science for sure, and when you throw in all the variables, it becomes truly clear how fortunate we’ve been to have had players like Stewie, Charles, Dolson etc!

 

[CocoHusky]

When I hear people complain about the “big” situation I wonder if they are really looking at it objectively. First off, good bigs are much rarer than guards, wings etc. There simply are fewer women of that size. So, you have a smaller pool and more coaches trying to recruit them. Second, really good posts, good hands, good fundamentals, mobile, high motor, smart, ideal size, etc are even more rare. Third, (this one really limits Geno’s options Imo) even with all those attributes/skills they may not be what he is looking for in terms of character, attitude, comportment, responsibility, etc. then you have to deal with family loyalties, perhaps wanting to stay in a particular part of the country, Coach preference, (maybe she wants to play for a certain type of coach), parental wishes/pressure, possible friends she wants to play with etc.

Basically, you have a smaller pool from which to choose, then you add in all the disqualifiers, then you add in all the competing offers, and now the incontrovertible fact that there are simply more good teams for them to choose from, it really becomes obvious how rare a player like Boston, Lee, etc really are and how devastating Boston’s choice was for this program. There is little to no doubt in my mind that had Boston chosen to come here instead of SC, we would be attempting to win number 13 or 14 now rather than 12.

This is in no way critical towards her choice, merely an observation of how rare those kinds of players really are and how fine a line there often is between good, great, and dominant basketball teams. Currently, as far as I can tell, there are two truly physically dominant skilled posts in women’s college basketball! Boston and Lee. One, Boston was expected to be great while the other, Lee from Kansas State, was not even ranked as far as I can tell. It’s an inexact science for sure, and when you throw in all the variables, it becomes truly clear how fortunate we’ve been to have had players like Stewie, Charles, Dolson etc!

There is a series of unfavorable related events that have conspired to UCONN inability to secure a big that would have enable #12...

2016-17 Events: Morgan Tuck departed for WNBA + Azura Stevens transfers to UCONN and UCONN fails to submit a request for immediate eligibility.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season. Tuck or an eligible Stevens would have surely made up the difference.

2017-18 Events: Jessica Shepard transfers to ND and is immediately eligible + Natalie Butler transferred to George Mason
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season again. Kristina Nelson of ND played 11 minutes and scored 2 points in this game and UCONN had nobody to match up with her. Natalie Butler could have match up with her and given UCONN starters a few minutes rest. ND also had no match up for Stevens in this game and she should have played more minutes.

2017-18 Event: Hurricane Harvey causes Charli Collier to de-commit from UCONN + Azura Stevens departed early for the WNBA
Impact/Outcome: Christyn Williams and Megan Walker are pressed into starting duty. Megan becomes a PF and ONO becomes the 6th man. Having Azura Stevens and or Charli Collier would have prevented MW from having to play the PF. position.

2019- 20 Event: Megan Walker departs early for WNBA after an AA season in which she played PF + Boston commits to SC.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN was getting beat handily during this season by a few teams (Oregon , South Carolina, Baylor) I'm not sure it would have made any difference if UCONN had a rematch with those team in the tournament. I'll never be able to prove this just an opinion those events are related. IMO Megan walker was more likely to return if UCONN had secured a post player which would have allowed her to play her natural and WNBA future position as a wing.

2020-Present Event: Paige arrives without a returning AA on the roster and the only post player on the roster (ONO) not making a sophomore leap.
Impact/Outcome: Remarkably UCONN makes it to a FF and overlooks a hot Arizona team. I still don't think UCONN has a big good enough yet to secure #12 nor will they until Boston graduates or one of the incoming Post (Ice or Ayanna ) turn out to be as good or better than advertised.

 

[TCC Kid]

the biggest whiff in Geno's recruiting history will always be Boston, was the perfect player for this team. We would talking about 3-4 ntl titles if she had committed to Uconn

When Geno recruited Boston you couldn't pay them (NIL) to come to Uconn. Boston went where her mom was comfortable and that wasn't Uconn. All the ooos and ah's or hot darns won't change what is--is, Geno/Uconn isn't for many. Uconn has rigorous requirements that limits those that may or may not choose or be chosen. The truth be told, Geno missed nothing.

 

[TCC Kid]

There is a series of unfavorable related events that have conspired to UCONN inability to secure a big that would have enable #12...

2016-17 Events: Morgan Tuck departed for WNBA + Azura Stevens transfers to UCONN and UCONN fails to submit a request for immediate eligibility.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season. Tuck or an eligible Stevens would have surely made up the difference.

2017-18 Events: Jessica Shepard transfers to ND and is immediately eligible + Natalie Butler transferred to George Mason
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season again. Kristina Nelson of ND played 11 minutes and scored 2 points in this game and UCONN had nobody to match up with her. Natalie Butler could have match up with her and given UCONN starters a few minutes rest. ND also had no match up for Stevens in this game and she should have played more minutes.

2017-18 Event: Hurricane Harvey causes Charli Collier to de-commit from UCONN + Azura Stevens departed early for the WNBA
Impact/Outcome: Christyn Williams and Megan Walker are pressed into starting duty. Megan becomes a PF and ONO becomes the 6th man. Having Azura Stevens and or Charli Collier would have prevented MW from having to play the PF. position.

2019- 20 Event: Megan Walker departs early for WNBA after an AA season in which she played PF + Boston commits to SC.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN was getting beat handily during this season by a few teams (Oregon , South Carolina, Baylor) I'm not sure it would have made any difference if UCONN had a rematch with those team in the tournament. I'll never be able to prove this just an opinion those events are related. IMO Megan walker was more likely to return if UCONN had secured a post player which would have allowed her to play her natural and WNBA future position as a wing.

2020-Present Event: Paige arrives without a returning AA on the roster and the only post player on the roster (ONO) not making a sophomore leap.
Impact/Outcome: Remarkably UCONN makes it to a FF and overlooks a hot Arizona team. I still don't think UCONN has a big good enough yet to secure #12 nor will they until Boston graduates or one of the incoming Post (Ice or Ayanna ) turn out to be as good or better than advertised.

I suggest and to keep that dead horse buried, Megan would n't have stayed period. She was departing waving the second finger of her right hand. Megan wasn't a happy camper.

 

[SARG 2011]

Anybody else find themselves noticing good players while watching games and checking if they are a Sr. knowing they get that Covid year

 

[hoophuskee]

There is a series of unfavorable related events that have conspired to UCONN inability to secure a big that would have enable #12...

2016-17 Events: Morgan Tuck departed for WNBA + Azura Stevens transfers to UCONN and UCONN fails to submit a request for immediate eligibility.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season. Tuck or an eligible Stevens would have surely made up the difference.

2017-18 Events: Jessica Shepard transfers to ND and is immediately eligible + Natalie Butler transferred to George Mason
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season again. Kristina Nelson of ND played 11 minutes and scored 2 points in this game and UCONN had nobody to match up with her. Natalie Butler could have match up with her and given UCONN starters a few minutes rest. ND also had no match up for Stevens in this game and she should have played more minutes.

2017-18 Event: Hurricane Harvey causes Charli Collier to de-commit from UCONN + Azura Stevens departed early for the WNBA
Impact/Outcome: Christyn Williams and Megan Walker are pressed into starting duty. Megan becomes a PF and ONO becomes the 6th man. Having Azura Stevens and or Charli Collier would have prevented MW from having to play the PF. position.

2019- 20 Event: Megan Walker departs early for WNBA after an AA season in which she played PF + Boston commits to SC.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN was getting beat handily during this season by a few teams (Oregon , South Carolina, Baylor) I'm not sure it would have made any difference if UCONN had a rematch with those team in the tournament. I'll never be able to prove this just an opinion those events are related. IMO Megan walker was more likely to return if UCONN had secured a post player which would have allowed her to play her natural and WNBA future position as a wing.

2020-Present Event: Paige arrives without a returning AA on the roster and the only post player on the roster (ONO) not making a sophomore leap.
Impact/Outcome: Remarkably UCONN makes it to a FF and overlooks a hot Arizona team. I still don't think UCONN has a big good enough yet to secure #12 nor will they until Boston graduates or one of the incoming Post (Ice or Ayanna ) turn out to be as good or better than advertised.

Natalie Butler was not good especially at the end,. No way UCONN lost because they didn't play Butler. Not even close.

The UCONN guards struggled mightily in 16-17 and 17-18. It had extremely extremely little to do with Nelson.

 

[BobbyJ]

the biggest whiff in Geno's recruiting history will always be Boston, was the perfect player for this team. We would talking about 3-4 ntl titles if she had committed to Uconn

You call it a whiff. What should Auriemma have done to get Boston to go to UConn?

 

[TeamFirst!]

I really think our situation will miss ONO badly but I feel very good about the addition of Ice and Ayanna. The bottom line is rebounding and both should be able to help in that regard. I think ICE can contribute more offensively but Ayanna is going to be a force as a rebounder and should be a strong defender as well. We will see but I love a team with great outside shooting and strong rebounding. Even as good as SC is, they are still rather one dimensional except for Henderson. Henderson is the cream of the crop for their guards.

 

[CocoHusky]

Natalie Butler was not good especially at the end,. No way UCONN lost because they didn't play Butler. Not even close.

The UCONN guards struggled mightily in 16-17 and 17-18. It had extremely extremely little to do with Nelson.

In her last season in a UCONN uniform UCONN played 10 ranked teams (#12 FSU, #2 Baylor, #15 DePaul, #15 Texas, #2 ND, #12 Ohio State , #4 Maryland, #20 USF, #6 South Carolina, #23 Temple) prior to the tournament NCAA tournament. The teams in bold are the ones that had a significant tall/large front lines. (23, 20, 20, 26, 8, 12, 14, 19, 7, & 17) were the minutes logged by Natalie Butler against those 10 ranked teams. There is no way Geno gives Natalie that many minutes against ranked teams unless she was being productive and most of the times she was very productive as a rotation player. The rotation was only 7 deep with Natalie and Crystal coming off the bench. FF to the NCAA tournament where UCONN would play Albany, Syracuse, UCLA, Oregon and Mississippi State. (15. 8, 0, 10, & 6) were the minutes logged by Natalie Butler in the NCAA tournament. Zero minutes against UCLA can be explained by that be a very bad matchup for Natalie specifically in the form of the UCLA big which was Billings and would have run circles around Natalie. Only 6 minutes in MSU game was all in the 2nd quarter of the game and can be explain by Natalie being not very good. So if that is what you mean by Natalie being not good especially at the end- meaning her last game- I would still have to disagree with you. Natalie was a productive part of the rotation in her last season at UCONN and IMO would have been even more productive if she had returned for her senior campaign. Consider that Natalie would lead the nation in rebounding after transferring to George Mason and UCONN was lacking bulk on the frontline. My point is that Natalie might have helped UCONN because she was a better matchup against Jessica Shepard than anyone UCONN had on the roster. Why do I believe this? I'm glad you asked- it turns out that Natalie Butler wearing a UCONN uniform had actually matched up against Jessica Shepard before when Shepard was wearing a Nebraska uniform. Dig up the box score or the replay and you tell me who got the best of that matchup. Give Natalie 10 minutes in that game to get Gabby Williams 5 minutes of rest and I think you could have a different outcome.

 

[CocoHusky]

Anybody else find themselves noticing good players while watching games and checking if they are a Sr. knowing they get that Covid year

Maybe we can exchange list sometime.

 

[Skeets]

I really think our situation will miss ONO badly but I feel very good about the addition of Ice and Ayanna. The bottom line is rebounding and both should be able to help in that regard. I think ICE can contribute more offensively but Ayanna is going to be a force as a rebounder and should be a strong defender as well. We will see but I love a team with great outside shooting and strong rebounding. Even as good as SC is, they are still rather one dimensional except for Henderson. Henderson is the cream of the crop for their guards.

We will sorely miss Liv and we'll be in a world of hurt if Dorka does not come back for another year. Will Piath and/or Amari be ready to be the starting center? No sign of that so far. I hope ICE and Ayanna turn out to be really good, but come on, these are high school kids that will be entering big time D1 basketball at the highest level. If Geno a can find a good and experienced center in the portal he has to go all out to get her.

 

[freshler40]

There is a series of unfavorable related events that have conspired to UCONN inability to secure a big that would have enable #12...

2016-17 Events: Morgan Tuck departed for WNBA + Azura Stevens transfers to UCONN and UCONN fails to submit a request for immediate eligibility.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season. Tuck or an eligible Stevens would have surely made up the difference.

2017-18 Events: Jessica Shepard transfers to ND and is immediately eligible + Natalie Butler transferred to George Mason
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season again. Kristina Nelson of ND played 11 minutes and scored 2 points in this game and UCONN had nobody to match up with her. Natalie Butler could have match up with her and given UCONN starters a few minutes rest. ND also had no match up for Stevens in this game and she should have played more minutes.

2017-18 Event: Hurricane Harvey causes Charli Collier to de-commit from UCONN + Azura Stevens departed early for the WNBA
Impact/Outcome: Christyn Williams and Megan Walker are pressed into starting duty. Megan becomes a PF and ONO becomes the 6th man. Having Azura Stevens and or Charli Collier would have prevented MW from having to play the PF. position.

2019- 20 Event: Megan Walker departs early for WNBA after an AA season in which she played PF + Boston commits to SC.
Impact/Outcome: UCONN was getting beat handily during this season by a few teams (Oregon , South Carolina, Baylor) I'm not sure it would have made any difference if UCONN had a rematch with those team in the tournament. I'll never be able to prove this just an opinion those events are related. IMO Megan walker was more likely to return if UCONN had secured a post player which would have allowed her to play her natural and WNBA future position as a wing.

2020-Present Event: Paige arrives without a returning AA on the roster and the only post player on the roster (ONO) not making a sophomore leap.
Impact/Outcome: Remarkably UCONN makes it to a FF and overlooks a hot Arizona team. I still don't think UCONN has a big good enough yet to secure #12 nor will they until Boston graduates or one of the incoming Post (Ice or Ayanna ) turn out to be as good or better than advertised.

Thanks for the history and insight. There are more and better teams growing in the women's game these days, more TV coverage and youngsters committing to one sport, basketball at a tender age. All great for their futures and the game. It's clear that we need to adjust to this "now" world or become a member of the pack.

 

[NU2BY]

2017-18 Events: Jessica Shepard transfers to ND and is immediately eligible + Natalie Butler transferred to George Mason
Impact/Outcome: UCONN got beat in OT in the FF after having an undefeated regular season again. Kristina Nelson of ND played 11 minutes and scored 2 points in this game and UCONN had nobody to match up with her. Natalie Butler could have match up with her and given UCONN starters a few minutes rest. ND also had no match up for Stevens in this game and she should have played more minutes.

2017-18 Event: Hurricane Harvey causes Charli Collier to de-commit from UCONN + Azura Stevens departed early for the WNBA
Impact/Outcome: Christyn Williams and Megan Walker are pressed into starting duty. Megan becomes a PF and ONO becomes the 6th man. Having Azura Stevens and or Charli Collier would have prevented MW from having to play the PF. position.

Good recounting of events, but we can't have Stevens not playing enough in the final in 2017-18 and departing in the same season. Kristina Nelson was insignificant in this game. Had Stevens been in there when she definitely should have been UConn wins the game easily. Stevens was the single most reason UConn got back into this game. Then for some mind-blowing, dumbfounding reason, she's left on the bench. Unbelievable move!

 

[NU2BY]

the biggest whiff in Geno's recruiting history will always be Boston, was the perfect player for this team. We would talking about 3-4 ntl titles if she had committed to Uconn

She didn't come ... get over it. If all the absolute best players were easy to obtain, the NC titles wouldn't be worth much.

 

[Tonyc]

UConn and Geno attract players. I believe alot of great players want to play for UConn and Geno. However when a great player goes elsewhere there is nothing we can do about it. Its there choice. Kids know what UConn offers and what Geno offers and if they go elsewhere they do and Geno goes on to the next recruit.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

The team Geno considers his most talented, 2000-2001, lost two players during the season, one late. Svet ruptured her Achilles’ tendon during the regular season then Shea to an ACL injury late. Despite a remaining team of Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Swin Cash, Asjha Jones, Tamika Williams, Kelly Schumacher, and Kennitra Johnson, the team lost to ND in the Final Four

The Huskies we’re pretty lucky to have avoided injuries to key players until that year. Unfortunately they couldn’t ultimately overcome the loss of two senior team leaders

Not only did UConn lose two All American starters to injury, it took Diana Taurus's having the worst game of her life against Notre Dame (shooting 1 for 15) for MM and ND to secure their first of just two national championships.

So let's recall Coach Geno's quote that he's "pretty sure that eleven is more than two!"

 

[hoophuskee]

In her last season in a UCONN uniform UCONN played 10 ranked teams (#12 FSU, #2 Baylor, #15 DePaul, #15 Texas, #2 ND, #12 Ohio State , #4 Maryland, #20 USF, #6 South Carolina, #23 Temple) prior to the tournament NCAA tournament. The teams in bold are the ones that had a significant tall/large front lines. (23, 20, 20, 26, 8, 12, 14, 19, 7, & 17) were the minutes logged by Natalie Butler against those 10 ranked teams. There is no way Geno gives Natalie that many minutes against ranked teams unless she was being productive and most of the times she was very productive as a rotation player. The rotation was only 7 deep with Natalie and Crystal coming off the bench. FF to the NCAA tournament where UCONN would play Albany, Syracuse, UCLA, Oregon and Mississippi State. (15. 8, 0, 10, & 6) were the minutes logged by Natalie Butler in the NCAA tournament. Zero minutes against UCLA can be explained by that be a very bad matchup for Natalie specifically in the form of the UCLA big which was Billings and would have run circles around Natalie. Only 6 minutes in MSU game was all in the 2nd quarter of the game and can be explain by Natalie being not very good. So if that is what you mean by Natalie being not good especially at the end- meaning her last game- I would still have to disagree with you. Natalie was a productive part of the rotation in her last season at UCONN and IMO would have been even more productive if she had returned for her senior campaign. Consider that Natalie would lead the nation in rebounding after transferring to George Mason and UCONN was lacking bulk on the frontline. My point is that Natalie might have helped UCONN because she was a better matchup against Jessica Shepard than anyone UCONN had on the roster. Why do I believe this? I'm glad you asked- it turns out that Natalie Butler wearing a UCONN uniform had actually matched up against Jessica Shepard before when Shepard was wearing a Nebraska uniform. Dig up the box score or the replay and you tell me who got the best of that matchup. Give Natalie 10 minutes in that game to get Gabby Williams 5 minutes of rest and I think you could have a different outcome.

I looked back at stats- Natalie wasn't on the team in 17-18 - so she wasn't available vs ND. She transferred. on April 26th in 2017 she announced she was going to George Mason.

As for the 16-17 season, as the season progressed Geno gave her less minutes in big games/ or games that were close because it appears he lost confidence in her.

In games vs Top teams through December 4th - there were 3 - Fla State, Baylor, and Texas she got 23, 20 and 26 respectively.

After December 4th and leading up to Miss State UCONN played 7 big games/ or games that would be close- two of the 4 games in which she got 10 minutes or more they were eventual blowouts. One game they were desperate-- Nurse got hurt and yet she only played 11. And as you point out with Miss State she got so few minutes- Geno lost confidence in her as the season progressed.

Notre Dame played on 12/7 She played 7
Ohio State on 12/19 she played 12 (game was a blowout by 1st half)
Maryland on 12/29 she played 14.
South Carolina on 2/13 she played 7
Tulane on 2/18 (close game came down to end. With Nurse hurt.) she played 11
UCLA Sweet 16 on 3/25 she Did not Play.
Oregon E8 on 3/27 she played 10 (game was a blowout in 1st half)

 

[CocoHusky]

I looked back at stats- Natalie wasn't on the team in 17-18 - so she wasn't available vs ND. She transferred. on April 26th in 2017 she announced she was going to George Mason.

As for the 16-17 season, as the season progressed Geno gave her less minutes in big games/ or games that were close because it appears he lost confidence in her.

In games vs Top teams through December 4th - there were 3 - Fla State, Baylor, and Texas she got 23, 20 and 26 respectively.

After December 4th and leading up to Miss State UCONN played 7 big games/ or games that would be close- two of the 4 games in which she got 10 minutes or more they were eventual blowouts. One game they were desperate-- Nurse got hurt and yet she only played 11. And as you point out with Miss State she got so few minutes- Geno lost confidence in her as the season progressed.

Notre Dame played on 12/7 She played 7
Ohio State on 12/19 she played 12 (game was a blowout by 1st half)
Maryland on 12/29 she played 14.
South Carolina on 2/13 she played 7
Tulane on 2/18 (close game came down to end. With Nurse hurt.) she played 11
UCLA Sweet 16 on 3/25 she Did not Play.
Oregon E8 on 3/27 she played 10 (game was a blowout in 1st half)

I not sure how this is any different than what I wrote. Clearly she was not on the team in 17-18 to help against ND. This is what I wrote regards to that. "Natalie was a productive part of the rotation in her last season at UCONN and IMO would have been even more productive if she had returned for her senior campaign".

 

[hoophuskee]

I not sure how this is any different than what I wrote. Clearly she was not on the team in 17-18 to help against ND. This is what I wrote regards to that. "Natalie was a productive part of the rotation in her last season at UCONN and IMO would have been even more productive if she had returned for her senior campaign".

I missed that. My bad.

But we are different in that Geno lost confidence in Natalie. You don't think so?

 

[CocoHusky]

I missed that. My bad.

But we are different in that Geno lost confidence in Natalie. You don't think so?

Geno definitely lost confidence in Natalie in the Miss St. game-deservedly so. But I don't think the lost of confidence was permanent and could have been recovered in the following season. Remember Gabby Williams in her Freshman year in the Championship game against ND? Gabby played nervous , admitted she was nervous but she recovered to be a PT starter as a sophomore and AA as a junior.