"Do The Math" Here Comes Notre Dame?

[CocoHusky]

I go along with the folks who take Nurse over Loyd for our team. I would hate to give up the great defensive strength of Nurse for the just above average defense of Loyd. Loyd doesn't add anything to our team that we don't already have. Nurse as a freshman showed great ability to drive hard to the hoop and score or draw fouls and her three point shooting is more than adequate, she should improve in both areas next year. ND can keep Loyd, I'll take Nurse.

PalPa,
Sorry but I can't cosign Loyd for Nurse under any circumstances. I did not see anyone else advocating such either. The discussion was about pairs of players Loyd + Turner vs. Nurse + Tuck.

 

[Nuyoika]

You nailed it, CocoHusky. Loyd and Turner better than Stewart and Jefferson. Not on this planet. Not in this universe.

Would you watch that 2 v 2 match up? Stewie and Jefferson would slaughter them... I would love to see that.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think after you get past your top eight players, there really isn't any point in mentioning anyone else. The only time anyone beyond the top eight factor in is if there is a horrific injury situation. Okay, maybe the ninth and possibly the tenth roster person, if a team is extraordinarily unlucky but to go beyond that is almost silly. To mention the complete roster is beyond weird.

 

[Buzzyboy]

A common refrain and acceptable given the quality of the injured players.
1. The injuries made it possible for Diana Taurasi to get more minutes and she excelled.
2. Shea Ralph, by everyone's admission, was not having anywhere close to an AA season. Missed? Absolutely. A huge loss? Not when one can insert Ms Taurasi into the lineup.
3. UConn was up 12 at halftime and by as many as 16 in the game. Injuries aside, that is a game you are supposed to win.
4. Luck may have played a part because it was not as if Notre Dame's defense was forcing a lot of turnovers and bad shots. The shots just were not falling; Not only were they not falling for Taurasi, but they were not falling for Bird or Johnson either.
5. When it comes to winning, sometimes one would rather be lucky than good.

I don't agree with point number two at all. Having Shea in the game would have offered tremendous stability and balance and her grit would have prevented the type of collapse that UConn experienced in the second half. To compare her to Diana Taurasi that year, when Diana basically shot brick after brick after brick and contributed a great deal to the loss, is silly. No one doubts what her skill set was and who she evolved into but in that specific game, she stunk the joint out. How would Shea not have been a major asset???? To point one, Diana excelled???? That is easily in the top ten worst performances of her entire UConn career and she wasn't prepared for the big stage. To suggest she excelled is beyond words. How is Diana's bad game compensation for the loss of Shea and not even mentioned is the loss of Svet.

 

[Buzzyboy]

A common refrain and acceptable given the quality of the injured players.
1. The injuries made it possible for Diana Taurasi to get more minutes and she excelled.
2. Shea Ralph, by everyone's admission, was not having anywhere close to an AA season. Missed? Absolutely. A huge loss? Not when one can insert Ms Taurasi into the lineup.
3. UConn was up 12 at halftime and by as many as 16 in the game. Injuries aside, that is a game you are supposed to win.
4. Luck may have played a part because it was not as if Notre Dame's defense was forcing a lot of turnovers and bad shots. The shots just were not falling; Not only were they not falling for Taurasi, but they were not falling for Bird or Johnson either.
5. When it comes to winning, sometimes one would rather be lucky than good.

Those turnovers mentioned in point 4 likely would not have happened against the experience of both Svet and Shea. In actuality, it's likely the turnovers would have shifted dramatically from UConn to Notre Dame had our two girls healthy. I know it's all irrelevant but there is no way that Diana as a freshman was anywhere near capable of the type of game or games that were lost with Svet and Shea out. In fact, she did play extraordinarily badly and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn which was helpful in turning a big halftime UConn lead into a Notre Dame win.

 

[Aluminny69]

Unfortunately, the top four teams next year, UConn, ND, SC, and TENN, don't play each other enough for me. ND and SC don't play each other at all, and TENN won't play UConn, so that's two intra games each among the top four. And I don't think Baylor plays any of them. Any of those intra games would be exciting to watch, and great for WCBB.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Ivory Latta who is a assistant coach at UNC. Said this about DeShields "her abilites are totally amazing. She could play a year or two and play in the WNBA easily. You don't find many girls coming out of high school with that skill set." she Said this when Diamond was playing a UNC last year.

Your response to the post about Butler, an anthem about DeShields virtues, seems like an oxymoron. But, then again, for you it is entirely within keeping. This board's tolerance for your wearying homerism appears to be viewed by most as a virtue. You might want to occasionally sprinkle it with a little knowledge and interest in WCBB in general.

 

[hoophuskee]

[QUOTE="meyers7, post: 1265148, member: 343. However not really really good like UCONN. They'll still be a step above.

Well sure, anybody on any given day. But were talking about likelihood here. I think UCONN will be a better team and less likely to be beaten next year than this year, even with the improvements in other teams.

Ok, but that really doesn't have anything to do with next year? Yea, they'll be better next year, we've already established that. But they are still not going to close the gap on UCONN. IMO. And even if they do, I think next years team with Stewart and Jefferson as Sr's (better leadership than this year - nothing against KML and Stokes, they are just not great leaders) there will be less chance of a dip in UCONN that some team can take advantage of (i.e. Stanford game).


Disagree. This year is their chance. It's not a good one, and I doubt they will be able to beat UCONN, but next year the chance goes down. For the reasons I have stated. While other teams will improve, their chance of beating UCONN goes down.[/QUOTE]

Next year and this year's teams are a step above. The Stanford game is done. It's an anomaly. Might next year's team go undefeated? Sure. But from this point forward no one has a shot to beat this year's team other than a smidgen of Notre Dame. Next year Notre Dame, USC and Tennessee will be those smidgens. This year there is only one. USC and Baylor and Maryalnd whoever else- they aren't going to beat us no matter how close the score. Only ND has the smidgen this year. When you go against other great teams - there is a higher risk of the opponent playing out of their minds no matter how good UCONN is.

That's why player's like Turner and Wilson will become more of a threat next year. Freshmen can talk all they want and pretend like the pressure isn't that big of deal but we've seen Maya and DT wilt a little/a bit etc under it when a lot was expected as a frosh thus I expect whoever emerges between Wilson and Turner will be elated enough to be in the title game even though they won't admit it. This year imo will be a learning experience for them and next year they will play better despite not being as good as UCONN. There will be less mental mistakes. Better preparation etc. It's why we hear so often that many players get a huge jump from their frosh to soph years. That doesn't mean just vs. "the sisters of the poor."

As for USC - more of the offense will go towards Wilson. More offense goes to Wilson - that means a better offense. Mitchell will be better. Another year of maturity for Coates-- and Tina Roy is a fine player. Then the other guards has Cueavas who should get a nice soph jump, and Sessions will be a senior I expect she'llebe more solid and they get a highly rated pg recruit - her rating is 98. I know eric and I were some that said USC wouldn't be the toughest opponent this year - and I has said since day 1 USC can't beat us. Lobo said the same thing. It's their offense - a player like Welch is really good but can't impact us. That's why we're such an enormous favorite to win it all.

And I know there is the talk that there was no Turner vs ND. Well ND was fortunate that both Stewie and MoJeff didn't play well at all. At least not close to their capabilities. Is that going to happen again? So who is more trustworthy in a possible title matchup - Stewie and MoJeff playing well or Turner playing well? So I'll quote what you posted a simple comment I agree with - which imo applies a lot to these next 6 games - the statement you made was more for next year--

Well sure, anybody on any given day. But were talking about likelihood here

All likelihood this year - UCONN is winning it all. And with only one smidgen threat- next year there is at least 3.

 

[msf22b]

meryers I gotta agree with you. Noody will beat UConn next season. Breanna is already at a phenomenal level. Next season she will be something that womens BB has never seem. I have been following Breanna since I heard about her in HS. Now add MoJeff who imo will be off the charts and UConn will be unbeatable. The laugher is you have Tuck Nurse and coming in Butler a big 6'5 presence and our terrific freshman class and no team will come close to UConn. Breanna Stewart is the a player that womens BB has never seen and during the NCAA UConn will be a highlight film. I will say again this is UConns greatest team of all time.

Except maybe next year's version will be better yet.

 

[msf22b]

I go along with the folks who take Nurse over Loyd for our team. I would hate to give up the great defensive strength of Nurse for the just above average defense of Loyd. Loyd doesn't add anything to our team that we don't already have. Nurse as a freshman showed great ability to drive hard to the hoop and score or draw fouls and her three point shooting is more than adequate, she should improve in both areas next year. ND can keep Loyd, I'll take Nurse.

Don't get me wrong, I love Kiah Nurse
But Loyd is other-worldly
And if you don't fancy her D
What do you think it would be like after Geno got into her head?

 

[VolFan]

Unfortunately, the top four teams next year, UConn, ND, SC, and TENN, don't play each other enough for me. ND and SC don't play each other at all, and TENN won't play UConn, so that's two intra games each among the top four. And I don't think Baylor plays any of them. Any of those intra games would be exciting to watch, and great for WCBB.

For Baylor, don't blame us. Mulkey replaced us with Ole Miss after she lost Griner.

 

[Rocklander]

UCONN has the better coach.

 

[meyers7]

Next year and this year's teams are a step above. The Stanford game is done. It's an anomaly. Might next year's team go undefeated? Sure. But from this point forward no one has a shot to beat this year's team other than a smidgen of Notre Dame. Next year Notre Dame, USC and Tennessee will be those smidgens. This year there is only one. USC and Baylor and Maryalnd whoever else- they aren't going to beat us no matter how close the score. Only ND has the smidgen this year. When you go against other great teams - there is a higher risk of the opponent playing out of their minds no matter how good UCONN is.

That's why player's like Turner and Wilson will become more of a threat next year. Freshmen can talk all they want and pretend like the pressure isn't that big of deal but we've seen Maya and DT wilt a little/a bit etc under it when a lot was expected as a frosh thus I expect whoever emerges between Wilson and Turner will be elated enough to be in the title game even though they won't admit it. This year imo will be a learning experience for them and next year they will play better despite not being as good as UCONN. There will be less mental mistakes. Better preparation etc. It's why we hear so often that many players get a huge jump from their frosh to soph years. That doesn't mean just vs. "the sisters of the poor."

As for USC - more of the offense will go towards Wilson. More offense goes to Wilson - that means a better offense. Mitchell will be better. Another year of maturity for Coates-- and Tina Roy is a fine player. Then the other guards has Cueavas who should get a nice soph jump, and Sessions will be a senior I expect she'llebe more solid and they get a highly rated pg recruit - her rating is 98. I know eric and I were some that said USC wouldn't be the toughest opponent this year - and I has said since day 1 USC can't beat us. Lobo said the same thing. It's their offense - a player like Welch is really good but can't impact us. That's why we're such an enormous favorite to win it all.

And I know there is the talk that there was no Turner vs ND. Well ND was fortunate that both Stewie and MoJeff didn't play well at all. At least not close to their capabilities. Is that going to happen again? So who is more trustworthy in a possible title matchup - Stewie and MoJeff playing well or Turner playing well? So I'll quote what you posted a simple comment I agree with - which imo applies a lot to these next 6 games - the statement you made was more for next year--

Well sure, anybody on any given day. But were talking about likelihood here

All likelihood this year - UCONN is winning it all. And with only one smidgen threat- next year there is at least 3.

Again, you have it backwards. You're not looking past talent. It's not necessarily the talent that separates next year.

 

[meyers7]

I will say again this is UConns greatest team of all time.

Thanks for agreeing, but I'm gonna have to disagree with this line. I don't think they have the leadership to qualify for that.

 

[VAUConnFan]

I don't agree with point number two at all. Having Shea in the game would have offered tremendous stability and balance and her grit would have prevented the type of collapse that UConn experienced in the second half. To compare her to Diana Taurasi that year, when Diana basically shot brick after brick after brick and contributed a great deal to the loss, is silly. No one doubts what her skill set was and who she evolved into but in that specific game, she stunk the joint out. How would Shea not have been a major asset???? To point one, Diana excelled???? That is easily in the top ten worst performances of her entire UConn career and she wasn't prepared for the big stage. To suggest she excelled is beyond words. How is Diana's bad game compensation for the loss of Shea and not even mentioned is the loss of Svet.

Not prepared for the big stage? Diana Taurasi, IIRC, came into that game having just garnered the regional MOP award and was having a much better season than Shea Ralph, who, that season, was rather pedestrian. While that national semifanl was Taurai's worst performance, she also had a 2-14 game earlier in the tournament. but Taurasi was not the only offensive underperformer against Notre Dame and it would be grossly unfair to lay the loss solely at her feet; Sue Bird was 7-21, Kennita Johnson was 2-9, and Kelly Shumacher was 5-13. The team was 26-77. Take away Taurasi's numbers and they still went 25-62.

Despite the two injuries, what would become the great 2002 team was present in St. Louis on March 30, 2001. If the 2002 is among the greatest teams of all time if not the greatest, then they were good enough to win that game against Notre Dame the previous season.

 

[asuwish]

"In reality, Notre Dame is a team built for next year. The Irish, who have six McDonald’s All-Americans on the roster now, will have everyone back and will add three McDonald’s All-Americans next season. But, why not start the run to overtake UConn now?"

Here's a look at the local sentiment from northern Indiana:

Do the math: Can Notre Dame women's basketball overtake UConn? [LINK] to article.

------------------------------------

I see the potential of a Notre Dame/UConn championship game as a very real possibility (if not probability). If that happens, it may turn out to be a real nail-biter. Hopefully our math will add up better than theirs.

Next year I think at least 9 or 10 teams will be very deep. ND, MD, Baylor, NC, SC, TN, FL state, Duke, Uconn, and I'm sure I forgot someone will all be in the fight for the NC. team chemistry, style of play, and intangibles will determine who is left standing at the end of next year. The deepest cream at the top in many years.

 

[Tonyc]

ND is not going to beat UConn this season or next season. It just aint happenin. The main reason is Breanna Stewart. She is better then great. She is unstoppable and can score from anywhere. Shes a phenom. UConn as a team can put up huge numbers on ND and ND cant against UConn. Turner is good for ND however Stewart and Tuck one on one with Turner are better and Stokes is better defensively. ND has .shooters who come off the bench however they can dribble drive by UConn defenders so they are sitting out on the perimeter like robins on a perch and unless wide open cant do much damage. ND is Lloyd and Turner and depend on them for their scoring. UConn has 5 scorers who are virtually impossible to defend one on one. UConn by 20

 

[DobbsRover2]

Interesting to look back to a BY thread around this time last year and the teams that were predicted to be at the top, versus what happened. The OP's opinion was that UNC would be #2, which of course blew up when DD left a while later. Maryland was not seen among the top 10 teams by virtually anyone. Who knows what will transpire before next year's Tournament rolls around. And at least in a poll at that time, only 57% of the votes were that UConn would go undefeated this year.

 

[hoophuskee]

Again, you have it backwards. You're not looking past talent. It's not necessarily the talent that separates next year.

Nah -- I think you and I just have a different opinion on what we feel is beatable vs unbeatable. Simple as that.

For example you've said ot me more than once that I have it backwards in that I'm not looking past the talent. I believed I have addressed that the opposing teams will be better and thus there is more risk. And they'll be better not just because of talent. You just aren't buying it.

For me- I've said before you aren't giving the opposition their due. You said you are but I'm not buying that you are.

The good thing about our argument their is a supreme chance neither of us can "declare victory." Gonna be real hard to deny UCONN this year and next. Real hard.

 

[hoophuskee]

meryers I gotta agree with you. Noody will beat UConn next season. Breanna is already at a phenomenal level. Next season she will be something that womens BB has never seem. I have been following Breanna since I heard about her in HS. Now add MoJeff who imo will be off the charts and UConn will be unbeatable. The laugher is you have Tuck Nurse and coming in Butler a big 6'5 presence and our terrific freshman class and no team will come close to UConn. Breanna Stewart is the a player that womens BB has never seen and during the NCAA UConn will be a highlight film. I will say again this is UConns greatest team of all time.

Huh???

How are you agreeing with Meyers when it was me that has said I don't give anyone much of a chance this year? I'm the one calling this team more of a lock to win than Meyers.

Though I agree with Meyers that for me this team isn't GOAT. Each onw has their own opinions on what GOAT is. For me - it starts with going undefeated.

 

[HuskiesU]

I'll say no the college game is all about the coaches and we do have the best in Geno. Best player in Stewie Best pg in Mojeff Morgan Tuck tore them apart this year. Kia and Gabby more experience as Ekmark shall be healthy plus our 3 new studs coming in. We will be a deeper team with size. And I've been watching some games today ND and South Carolina UConn is on another level from these other schools and it starts with COACHING

 

[Sonny44]

Ot

I'll take Geno and the incoming 4 next year, and take my chances.

It's axiomatic.

 

[Sonny44]

I believe it was stated that Madison Cable at Notre Dame has an additional year of eligibility because she was injured for one year. Is it known whether she will use that extra year?

How could that matter? She's never been a factor against us.

 

[hoophuskee]

Not prepared for the big stage? Diana Taurasi, IIRC, came into that game having just garnered the regional MOP award and was having a much better season than Shea Ralph, who, that season, was rather pedestrian. While that national semifanl was Taurai's worst performance, she also had a 2-14 game earlier in the tournament. but Taurasi was not the only offensive underperformer against Notre Dame and it would be grossly unfair to lay the loss solely at her feet; Sue Bird was 7-21, Kennita Johnson was 2-9, and Kelly Shumacher was 5-13. The team was 26-77. Take away Taurasi's numbers and they still went 25-62.

Despite the two injuries, what would become the great 2002 team was present in St. Louis on March 30, 2001. If the 2002 is among the greatest teams of all time if not the greatest, then they were good enough to win that game against Notre Dame the previous season.

1--- For me- I guess it depends on what "not prepared"means. If you have an awful game it can be said you weren't prepared. We've heard many times from CD when she speaks of freshmen that a she states to paraphrase "they aren't pepared for the rigors of college basketball and realize how hard it is." Thogh I wouldn't call it "nt prepared" - I'd call it "being a freshman."

2-- As far as Ralph "being pedestrian" I disagree big time. We can argue about "pedestrian" which I don't think possible with a team like UConn - and it being Ralph and we're top 3 etc. With all that said Raplh had her greatest year passing the basketball. her assist to turnover ratio was outstanding. Her game evolved into being more of a passer. Thus those statatistics that you mention -- extremely doubtful they would have been near the same with Ralph as such as an able passer. Ralph was a fine post passer and as a result you'd have gotten a lot more inside-out action too.

4-- You mentioned on another post about luck. I agree in the three games vsND that year there was one lucky game. It was the game in which UCONN has the home advantage and Sue Bird had to hit a buzzer-beater to beat ND. And in the 1st half she hit that halfcourt 3pt shot. That win was luck. We were unlucky in that game as Ralph got hurt. DT was nothing but a scorer her frosh year. Look at her assist to turnover ratio. WIth Dt UCONN had one option to win and it was "hope the freshman can keep scoring." The option with Ralph was that you can get more player's involved.

5--- As far as saying "UCONN was up by 12 so they should have won." -- ND could have said "we blew then out one time, came from behind in their own building and they had to win on a buzzer beater 2nd shot- so no reason why we can't come behind this time and beat them. They won't be home this time."

6--- And the difference between 00-01 and 01-02 is that 4 seniors improved and one of the greatest players ever DT got the soph jump and became much more than just a scorer. Her assist to turnover ratio-outstanding so as evidenced by BOTH DT and Bird shooting awful vs Oklahoma then next year in title game- yet UCONN was able to win in a different way. Not just by the guards scoring but overall having TWO excellent passing guards. Different ways to win can make a team that much greater. Ralph's passing excellence in 00-01 probably made a big difference why UCONN was so downright awful in scoring efficiency in the ND title game.