"Do The Math" Here Comes Notre Dame?

[meyers7]

Nah - IMO your opinion is not giving other great basketball teams their due. You say "granted they will be good" but for one thing a team like ND will probably be outstanding not just "good."

I'm giving them their due. They will be very good. There will be lot's of really good teams next year, especially compared to this year. ND, TN, Baylor, Texas, Maryland, even Duke should all improve and be good to really good next year. However not really really good like UCONN. They'll still be a step above.

Same with USC.

Not so sure about them. Don't know if they will be any better than they are this year. They lose 2 starters including kind of their heart in Welch. And don't bring anything in. They'll be good, but I don't know if any better than they are this year. They will probably be below ND (again) and TN next year.

Thus imo you are marginalizing their ability to play way above their heads. A team like Villanova did that vs GTOWN. In that one game that one day -- our team is still "kids" or another word- "amateurs." Even the best of the best pros such as LeBron James feels pressure.

Well sure, anybody on any given day. But were talking about likelihood here. I think UCONN will be a better team and less likely to be beaten next year than this year, even with the improvements in other teams.

And I'm wondering why you mentioned to me Maya's and DT's teammates vs Stewie's. Did you think when I first mentioned them to you that I was comparing Stewie next year as a sr. vs DT and Maya as freshmen? I just don't understand why you are comparing sr Stewie vs freshmen Maya and DT.

I wasn't. I was comparing Stewarts teammates when she is a SR to DT and Moore's teammates, when they were seniors.

My point was freshman Wilson from USC and freshman Turner from ND - whichever meet UCONN in the finals is much more apt to be like freshman Maya and freshman DT than be like the freshman Stewart. IMO it's absolutely rare to count on a frosh to be so huge when you are facing an experienced juggernaut. USC and ND have to rely a ton on their frosh. That's too much weight on their shoulders in a game with so much pressure. This this year - it's a learning experience for them.

Ok, but that really doesn't have anything to do with next year? Yea, they'll be better next year, we've already established that. But they are still not going to close the gap on UCONN. IMO. And even if they do, I think next years team with Stewart and Jefferson as Sr's (better leadership than this year - nothing against KML and Stokes, they are just not great leaders) there will be less chance of a dip in UCONN that some team can take advantage of (i.e. Stanford game).

As Lobe said this year - USC has no shot to beat UCONN. They can't beat us because they can't score enough. One more year together -- there is absolutely no reason to completely disregard both kids as being potential big time impact weapons. Nova wasn't close to GTOWN but had experience. Nova wasn't that good of a team while GTOWN was awesome - like UCONN. IMO there is no reason to believe a potential awesome team in ND or USC can't play unreal like Nova did. History in sports teaches us that. Sure frosh could - like our amateurs did play way above their heads and defeated Russia in Hockey. But overall that extra year I think allows the two super frosh a better chance to play that one super super game - and as said throw in the lousy refs - next year they have a better chance.

Disagree. This year is their chance. It's not a good one, and I doubt they will be able to beat UCONN, but next year the chance goes down. For the reasons I have stated. While other teams will improve, their chance of beating UCONN goes down.

 

[Tonyc]

meryers I gotta agree with you. Noody will beat UConn next season. Breanna is already at a phenomenal level. Next season she will be something that womens BB has never seem. I have been following Breanna since I heard about her in HS. Now add MoJeff who imo will be off the charts and UConn will be unbeatable. The laugher is you have Tuck Nurse and coming in Butler a big 6'5 presence and our terrific freshman class and no team will come close to UConn. Breanna Stewart is the a player that womens BB has never seen and during the NCAA UConn will be a highlight film. I will say again this is UConns greatest team of all time.

 

[CocoHusky]

DeShields has proven herself at the collegiate level. The others have not yet.

That's true.

Why do we keep sleeping on Butler as a proven collegiate level performer?

 

[DobbsRover2]

meryers I gotta agree with you. Noody will beat UConn next season. Breanna is already at a phenomenal level. Next season she will be something that womens BB has never seem. I have been following Breanna since I heard about her in HS. Now add MoJeff who imo will be off the charts and UConn will be unbeatable. The laugher is you have Tuck Nurse and coming in Butler a big 6'5 presence and our terrific freshman class and no team will come close to UConn. Breanna Stewart is the a player that womens BB has never seen and during the NCAA UConn will be a highlight film. I will say again this is UConns greatest team of all time.

Still would feel a little more rosy about next season if there was assurance that UConn can shoot 750 3-pointers at 38-40% rate. Definitely possible, but not guaranteed.

Of the five top teams this year, UConn definitely loses the most with the departure of KML and Stokes, UTenn next with Harrison, Burdick, and Massengale going, then USCar with Welch, Ibiam and Gaines, and then finally ND's loss of Cable, Holloway, and Wright might be less than MD's loss of Mincey. How all the newcomers will gel with the established players and how each team's health will hold up is the great unknown.

 

[JoePgh]

Still would feel a little more rosy about next season if there was assurance that UConn can shoot 750 3-pointers at 38-40% rate. Definitely possible, but not guaranteed.

Of the five top teams this year, UConn definitely loses the most with the departure of KML and Stokes, UTenn next with Harrison, Burdick, and Massengale going, then USCar with Welch, Ibiam and Gaines, and then finally ND's loss of Cable, Holloway, and Wright might be less than MD's loss of Mincey. How all the newcomers will gel with the established players and how each team's health will hold up is the great unknown.

I believe it was stated that Madison Cable at Notre Dame has an additional year of eligibility because she was injured for one year. Is it known whether she will use that extra year?

 

[Orangutan]

I believe it was stated that Madison Cable at Notre Dame has an additional year of eligibility because she was injured for one year. Is it known whether she will use that extra year?

Not yet, though most suspect she'll return.

 

[stwainfan]

Why do we keep sleeping on Butler as a proven collegiate level performer?

Ivory Latta who is a assistant coach at UNC. Said this about DeShields "her abilites are totally amazing. She could play a year or two and play in the WNBA easily. You don't find many girls coming out of high school with that skill set." she Said this when Diamond was playing a UNC last year.

 

[PalPa]

I go along with the folks who take Nurse over Loyd for our team. I would hate to give up the great defensive strength of Nurse for the just above average defense of Loyd. Loyd doesn't add anything to our team that we don't already have. Nurse as a freshman showed great ability to drive hard to the hoop and score or draw fouls and her three point shooting is more than adequate, she should improve in both areas next year. ND can keep Loyd, I'll take Nurse.

 

[Orangutan]

I go along with the folks who take Nurse over Loyd for our team. I would hate to give up the great defensive strength of Nurse for the just above average defense of Loyd.

Loyd was on the (five player) ACC all defense team, as selected by the coaches.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Shea Ralph and Abrosimova were both out with injuries and did not play. Thwarted, I think not, lucky yes.

A common refrain and acceptable given the quality of the injured players.
1. The injuries made it possible for Diana Taurasi to get more minutes and she excelled.
2. Shea Ralph, by everyone's admission, was not having anywhere close to an AA season. Missed? Absolutely. A huge loss? Not when one can insert Ms Taurasi into the lineup.
3. UConn was up 12 at halftime and by as many as 16 in the game. Injuries aside, that is a game you are supposed to win.
4. Luck may have played a part because it was not as if Notre Dame's defense was forcing a lot of turnovers and bad shots. The shots just were not falling; Not only were they not falling for Taurasi, but they were not falling for Bird or Johnson either.
5. When it comes to winning, sometimes one would rather be lucky than good.

 

[triaddukefan]

Loyd was on the (five player) ACC all defense team, as selected by the coaches.

But.... but.... but..... they dont play defense in the ACC..... so thats not saying much

 

[JoePgh]

Not yet, though most suspect she'll return.

Hasn't ND had its Senior Night yet? Was Ms. Cable among the "seniors"? I know at UConn, people in her position have had to make their decision before Senior Night (or risk not being honored on that night if they left), because the program was not about to honor them twice as seniors.

 

[Orangutan]

Hasn't ND had its Senior Night yet? Was Ms. Cable among the "seniors"? I know at UConn, people in her position have had to make their decision before Senior Night (or risk not being honored on that night if they left), because the program was not about to honor them twice as seniors.

Cable was included among the seniors...chatter on the ND board was that ND athletes in other sports have been honored twice before.

 

[CocoHusky]

Ivory Latta who is a assistant coach at UNC. Said this about DeShields "her abilites are totally amazing. She could play a year or two and play in the WNBA easily. You don't find many girls coming out of high school with that skill set." she Said this when Diamond was playing a UNC last year.

I agree with Ivory. I would even agree with you if you said that Diamond is the " Most proven" of the players we are talking about. I disagree that she is the only proven. Butler was among best rebounders in all NCAA as a Freshmen -5th I believe.

 

[CocoHusky]

Not yet, though most suspect she'll return.

It is noteworthy that all 3 ND recruits this year play the same position as Madison.

 

[CocoHusky]

I go along with the folks who take Nurse over Loyd for our team. I would hate to give up the great defensive strength of Nurse for the just above average defense of Loyd. Loyd doesn't add anything to our team that we don't already have. Nurse as a freshman showed great ability to drive hard to the hoop and score or draw fouls and her three point shooting is more than adequate, she should improve in both areas next year. ND can keep Loyd, I'll take Nurse.

PalPa,
Sorry but I can't cosign Loyd for Nurse under any circumstances. I did not see anyone else advocating such either. The discussion was about pairs of players Loyd + Turner vs. Nurse + Tuck.

 

[Nuyoika]

You nailed it, CocoHusky. Loyd and Turner better than Stewart and Jefferson. Not on this planet. Not in this universe.

Would you watch that 2 v 2 match up? Stewie and Jefferson would slaughter them... I would love to see that.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think after you get past your top eight players, there really isn't any point in mentioning anyone else. The only time anyone beyond the top eight factor in is if there is a horrific injury situation. Okay, maybe the ninth and possibly the tenth roster person, if a team is extraordinarily unlucky but to go beyond that is almost silly. To mention the complete roster is beyond weird.

 

[Buzzyboy]

A common refrain and acceptable given the quality of the injured players.
1. The injuries made it possible for Diana Taurasi to get more minutes and she excelled.
2. Shea Ralph, by everyone's admission, was not having anywhere close to an AA season. Missed? Absolutely. A huge loss? Not when one can insert Ms Taurasi into the lineup.
3. UConn was up 12 at halftime and by as many as 16 in the game. Injuries aside, that is a game you are supposed to win.
4. Luck may have played a part because it was not as if Notre Dame's defense was forcing a lot of turnovers and bad shots. The shots just were not falling; Not only were they not falling for Taurasi, but they were not falling for Bird or Johnson either.
5. When it comes to winning, sometimes one would rather be lucky than good.

I don't agree with point number two at all. Having Shea in the game would have offered tremendous stability and balance and her grit would have prevented the type of collapse that UConn experienced in the second half. To compare her to Diana Taurasi that year, when Diana basically shot brick after brick after brick and contributed a great deal to the loss, is silly. No one doubts what her skill set was and who she evolved into but in that specific game, she stunk the joint out. How would Shea not have been a major asset???? To point one, Diana excelled???? That is easily in the top ten worst performances of her entire UConn career and she wasn't prepared for the big stage. To suggest she excelled is beyond words. How is Diana's bad game compensation for the loss of Shea and not even mentioned is the loss of Svet.

 

[Buzzyboy]

A common refrain and acceptable given the quality of the injured players.
1. The injuries made it possible for Diana Taurasi to get more minutes and she excelled.
2. Shea Ralph, by everyone's admission, was not having anywhere close to an AA season. Missed? Absolutely. A huge loss? Not when one can insert Ms Taurasi into the lineup.
3. UConn was up 12 at halftime and by as many as 16 in the game. Injuries aside, that is a game you are supposed to win.
4. Luck may have played a part because it was not as if Notre Dame's defense was forcing a lot of turnovers and bad shots. The shots just were not falling; Not only were they not falling for Taurasi, but they were not falling for Bird or Johnson either.
5. When it comes to winning, sometimes one would rather be lucky than good.

Those turnovers mentioned in point 4 likely would not have happened against the experience of both Svet and Shea. In actuality, it's likely the turnovers would have shifted dramatically from UConn to Notre Dame had our two girls healthy. I know it's all irrelevant but there is no way that Diana as a freshman was anywhere near capable of the type of game or games that were lost with Svet and Shea out. In fact, she did play extraordinarily badly and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn which was helpful in turning a big halftime UConn lead into a Notre Dame win.

 

[Aluminny69]

Unfortunately, the top four teams next year, UConn, ND, SC, and TENN, don't play each other enough for me. ND and SC don't play each other at all, and TENN won't play UConn, so that's two intra games each among the top four. And I don't think Baylor plays any of them. Any of those intra games would be exciting to watch, and great for WCBB.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Ivory Latta who is a assistant coach at UNC. Said this about DeShields "her abilites are totally amazing. She could play a year or two and play in the WNBA easily. You don't find many girls coming out of high school with that skill set." she Said this when Diamond was playing a UNC last year.

Your response to the post about Butler, an anthem about DeShields virtues, seems like an oxymoron. But, then again, for you it is entirely within keeping. This board's tolerance for your wearying homerism appears to be viewed by most as a virtue. You might want to occasionally sprinkle it with a little knowledge and interest in WCBB in general.

 

[hoophuskee]

[QUOTE="meyers7, post: 1265148, member: 343. However not really really good like UCONN. They'll still be a step above.

Well sure, anybody on any given day. But were talking about likelihood here. I think UCONN will be a better team and less likely to be beaten next year than this year, even with the improvements in other teams.

Ok, but that really doesn't have anything to do with next year? Yea, they'll be better next year, we've already established that. But they are still not going to close the gap on UCONN. IMO. And even if they do, I think next years team with Stewart and Jefferson as Sr's (better leadership than this year - nothing against KML and Stokes, they are just not great leaders) there will be less chance of a dip in UCONN that some team can take advantage of (i.e. Stanford game).


Disagree. This year is their chance. It's not a good one, and I doubt they will be able to beat UCONN, but next year the chance goes down. For the reasons I have stated. While other teams will improve, their chance of beating UCONN goes down.[/QUOTE]

Next year and this year's teams are a step above. The Stanford game is done. It's an anomaly. Might next year's team go undefeated? Sure. But from this point forward no one has a shot to beat this year's team other than a smidgen of Notre Dame. Next year Notre Dame, USC and Tennessee will be those smidgens. This year there is only one. USC and Baylor and Maryalnd whoever else- they aren't going to beat us no matter how close the score. Only ND has the smidgen this year. When you go against other great teams - there is a higher risk of the opponent playing out of their minds no matter how good UCONN is.

That's why player's like Turner and Wilson will become more of a threat next year. Freshmen can talk all they want and pretend like the pressure isn't that big of deal but we've seen Maya and DT wilt a little/a bit etc under it when a lot was expected as a frosh thus I expect whoever emerges between Wilson and Turner will be elated enough to be in the title game even though they won't admit it. This year imo will be a learning experience for them and next year they will play better despite not being as good as UCONN. There will be less mental mistakes. Better preparation etc. It's why we hear so often that many players get a huge jump from their frosh to soph years. That doesn't mean just vs. "the sisters of the poor."

As for USC - more of the offense will go towards Wilson. More offense goes to Wilson - that means a better offense. Mitchell will be better. Another year of maturity for Coates-- and Tina Roy is a fine player. Then the other guards has Cueavas who should get a nice soph jump, and Sessions will be a senior I expect she'llebe more solid and they get a highly rated pg recruit - her rating is 98. I know eric and I were some that said USC wouldn't be the toughest opponent this year - and I has said since day 1 USC can't beat us. Lobo said the same thing. It's their offense - a player like Welch is really good but can't impact us. That's why we're such an enormous favorite to win it all.

And I know there is the talk that there was no Turner vs ND. Well ND was fortunate that both Stewie and MoJeff didn't play well at all. At least not close to their capabilities. Is that going to happen again? So who is more trustworthy in a possible title matchup - Stewie and MoJeff playing well or Turner playing well? So I'll quote what you posted a simple comment I agree with - which imo applies a lot to these next 6 games - the statement you made was more for next year--

Well sure, anybody on any given day. But were talking about likelihood here

All likelihood this year - UCONN is winning it all. And with only one smidgen threat- next year there is at least 3.

 

[msf22b]

meryers I gotta agree with you. Noody will beat UConn next season. Breanna is already at a phenomenal level. Next season she will be something that womens BB has never seem. I have been following Breanna since I heard about her in HS. Now add MoJeff who imo will be off the charts and UConn will be unbeatable. The laugher is you have Tuck Nurse and coming in Butler a big 6'5 presence and our terrific freshman class and no team will come close to UConn. Breanna Stewart is the a player that womens BB has never seen and during the NCAA UConn will be a highlight film. I will say again this is UConns greatest team of all time.

Except maybe next year's version will be better yet.

 

[msf22b]

I go along with the folks who take Nurse over Loyd for our team. I would hate to give up the great defensive strength of Nurse for the just above average defense of Loyd. Loyd doesn't add anything to our team that we don't already have. Nurse as a freshman showed great ability to drive hard to the hoop and score or draw fouls and her three point shooting is more than adequate, she should improve in both areas next year. ND can keep Loyd, I'll take Nurse.

Don't get me wrong, I love Kiah Nurse
But Loyd is other-worldly
And if you don't fancy her D
What do you think it would be like after Geno got into her head?

 

[VolFan]

Unfortunately, the top four teams next year, UConn, ND, SC, and TENN, don't play each other enough for me. ND and SC don't play each other at all, and TENN won't play UConn, so that's two intra games each among the top four. And I don't think Baylor plays any of them. Any of those intra games would be exciting to watch, and great for WCBB.

For Baylor, don't blame us. Mulkey replaced us with Ole Miss after she lost Griner.

 

[Rocklander]

UCONN has the better coach.

 

[meyers7]

Next year and this year's teams are a step above. The Stanford game is done. It's an anomaly. Might next year's team go undefeated? Sure. But from this point forward no one has a shot to beat this year's team other than a smidgen of Notre Dame. Next year Notre Dame, USC and Tennessee will be those smidgens. This year there is only one. USC and Baylor and Maryalnd whoever else- they aren't going to beat us no matter how close the score. Only ND has the smidgen this year. When you go against other great teams - there is a higher risk of the opponent playing out of their minds no matter how good UCONN is.

That's why player's like Turner and Wilson will become more of a threat next year. Freshmen can talk all they want and pretend like the pressure isn't that big of deal but we've seen Maya and DT wilt a little/a bit etc under it when a lot was expected as a frosh thus I expect whoever emerges between Wilson and Turner will be elated enough to be in the title game even though they won't admit it. This year imo will be a learning experience for them and next year they will play better despite not being as good as UCONN. There will be less mental mistakes. Better preparation etc. It's why we hear so often that many players get a huge jump from their frosh to soph years. That doesn't mean just vs. "the sisters of the poor."

As for USC - more of the offense will go towards Wilson. More offense goes to Wilson - that means a better offense. Mitchell will be better. Another year of maturity for Coates-- and Tina Roy is a fine player. Then the other guards has Cueavas who should get a nice soph jump, and Sessions will be a senior I expect she'llebe more solid and they get a highly rated pg recruit - her rating is 98. I know eric and I were some that said USC wouldn't be the toughest opponent this year - and I has said since day 1 USC can't beat us. Lobo said the same thing. It's their offense - a player like Welch is really good but can't impact us. That's why we're such an enormous favorite to win it all.

And I know there is the talk that there was no Turner vs ND. Well ND was fortunate that both Stewie and MoJeff didn't play well at all. At least not close to their capabilities. Is that going to happen again? So who is more trustworthy in a possible title matchup - Stewie and MoJeff playing well or Turner playing well? So I'll quote what you posted a simple comment I agree with - which imo applies a lot to these next 6 games - the statement you made was more for next year--

Well sure, anybody on any given day. But were talking about likelihood here

All likelihood this year - UCONN is winning it all. And with only one smidgen threat- next year there is at least 3.

Again, you have it backwards. You're not looking past talent. It's not necessarily the talent that separates next year.

 

[meyers7]

I will say again this is UConns greatest team of all time.

Thanks for agreeing, but I'm gonna have to disagree with this line. I don't think they have the leadership to qualify for that.

 

[VAUConnFan]

I don't agree with point number two at all. Having Shea in the game would have offered tremendous stability and balance and her grit would have prevented the type of collapse that UConn experienced in the second half. To compare her to Diana Taurasi that year, when Diana basically shot brick after brick after brick and contributed a great deal to the loss, is silly. No one doubts what her skill set was and who she evolved into but in that specific game, she stunk the joint out. How would Shea not have been a major asset???? To point one, Diana excelled???? That is easily in the top ten worst performances of her entire UConn career and she wasn't prepared for the big stage. To suggest she excelled is beyond words. How is Diana's bad game compensation for the loss of Shea and not even mentioned is the loss of Svet.

Not prepared for the big stage? Diana Taurasi, IIRC, came into that game having just garnered the regional MOP award and was having a much better season than Shea Ralph, who, that season, was rather pedestrian. While that national semifanl was Taurai's worst performance, she also had a 2-14 game earlier in the tournament. but Taurasi was not the only offensive underperformer against Notre Dame and it would be grossly unfair to lay the loss solely at her feet; Sue Bird was 7-21, Kennita Johnson was 2-9, and Kelly Shumacher was 5-13. The team was 26-77. Take away Taurasi's numbers and they still went 25-62.

Despite the two injuries, what would become the great 2002 team was present in St. Louis on March 30, 2001. If the 2002 is among the greatest teams of all time if not the greatest, then they were good enough to win that game against Notre Dame the previous season.