Discrepancies in the Bubble/Treatment of men vs women (merged)

[MSGRET]

I fumed about this for a while before drafting my reply. As a woman, I know all too well what it’s like to be treated as second-class. I’ve had male bosses tell me I would be more successful if I would dress sexier, smile more, or do more things to help them succeed. I’ve been told I should do a job for two or three years at a lower rate of pay and then they would consider paying me fairly for it. I’ve been told by a male boss that women cannot compete in business because they do not learn how to compete in sports. I‘ve spent a lifetime hoping that things will be better for the next generation. There was a story in a national media outlet the other day that implied that the woman who would benefit the most from the NCAA allowing players to profit from the images were the ones who are the prettiest or sexiest. 50 years after the failed attempt at ratifying ERA, women still are not valued equally as people. In my opinion, the only way we will get to equality is when both men and women decide they will accept nothing less. In the meantime, our institutions must do a better job of setting an example and showing leadership. I don’t believe that not one person in the NCAA considered that there would be some public outcry over the unequal treatment. I think it’s much more likely that they considered it and just didn’t care.

In the late 70's while stationed in Germany the Group XO, a Major had harassed one of my female enlisted soldiers. I confronted him on this and he stated that he's the XO and I'm a Sargent and it was none of my business. When I told my wife letting out my frustration on the issue she just tried to calm me down so I wouldn't get in trouble, I had a previous confrontation with the same XO.

Two days later I was called into the Group Commander's office, he asked me if what the incident was true, I stated that it was. He then asked how the female soldier was I said that she was shaken up about the incident, but doing okay. I inquired on how he found out and he stated that his wife heard about it and had addressed the issue with him when he got home from work the day before. There was a quick investigation by the command and the Major got a scathing reprimand put into his official file by the Commander.

I found out later that my wife had a scheduled outing with the Commander's wife the morning after the incident and had informed her of what I had stated the night before. My wife, who is German was acting as the translator for the planing of the Group Christmas party at one of the local fest halls. When I asked her about it she stated that Caroline had told her that if she ever had a problem adapting to the Military or the American lifestyle that she would be happy to help her. She asked her if it was proper for a Officer to ask inappropriate questions to a female private, Caroline had told her no and it went from there.

I found out later down the road that the Major was passed over twice for LTC and had to retire at 20 years, I hope that the letter and his attitude towards women in the military had something to do with his getting a forced retirement.

 

[willtalk]

I had better chow while going through basic training at Fort Ord than it appears the women are getting in San Antonio. How can that be? ?

Basic training chow halls are generally better than regular units. Plus everyone is hungery as hell so food always tastes better.

Interestingly enough, when I went through basic in the mid sixties at Ord we were put in a bubble as well. There had been a meningitis outbreak so we were restricted contact from everyone but our own unit. We also were to keep space between ourselves as well.

 

[MSGRET]

Basic training chow halls are generally better than regular units. Plus everyone is hungery as hell so food always tastes better.

Interestingly enough, when I went through basic in the mid sixties at Ord we were put in a bubble as well. There had been a meningitis outbreak so we were restricted contact from everyone but our own unit. We also were to keep space between ourselves as well.

The only reason why it was better is because of two things:

1. When you entered the chow hall you had to get your food and get out in less than 15 minutes,

2. Like you said you were hungry as hell so it tasted better, I believe that it tasted liks S..., but you needed food in you to get through basic.

 

[Ozimoto]

The NCAA needs an enema so it has room for a conscience!

And a brain...

 

[UcMiami]

My dad who enlisted before Pearl Harbor always claimed army food was great!
I think a lot of this is because the tournament had never done anything like this before and while they had plenty of time to really do it right, they were all focused on logistics and practice schedules and housing for 2000+ people in the 64 travel parties, and totally dropped the ball in other areas. They only ever had to worry about a four team tournament location before.

Swag bags - sorry, but it doen't look like the men's swag is anything to write home about so I'm not going to lose sleep about it. It's not like an Oscars swag bag with $20,000 worth of goodies. Looks sort of like a first class air travel gift bag!

But the weight room!!! That is completely unacceptable. And is just classic idiocy on the part of an NCAA that is 50 years out of touch with reality. That they still focus on landline phone calls in recruiting contact compliance is a classic example. I'm not sure they are aware that Ma Bell no longer has a monopoly on telecommunications.

 

[Stoli]

this MAY shed some light

 

[Carnac]

Basic training chow halls are generally better than regular units. Plus everyone is hungery as hell so food always tastes better.

Interestingly enough, when I went through basic in the mid sixties at Ord we were put in a bubble as well. There had been a meningitis outbreak so we were restricted contact from everyone but our own unit. We also were to keep space between ourselves as well.

The meningitis concern was still prevalent when I got there in 1969. We were in the old barracks. We were restricted to our company street. That sucked because we were NOT on the hill in the newer barracks. We had nothing. No day room, no TV's, no vending machines...............nothing!! We roughed it. The food was great. Yes, at the end of the day, we were all hungry as hell and ate everything put on our plate, and looked around at everyone else's plate hoping there was something on their plate they didn't want.

Every platoon wanted to be first to go in so that after everyone had been served, if they called seconds, you could get more. You couldn't get more if you were still eating. Our company cook knew what seasoning was and how to use it. Two MAJOR newsworthy occurrences happened during my 8 weeks there. The 1st moon landing on July 20, and the Tate-LaBianca murders (Charles Manson) in Los Angeles a month later.

 

[Zinethar]

I was also in boot camp during the summer of '69 and had similar experiences. We were not allowed to watch TV until after the 5th week but one day we were required to go to the TV room. That was the day of the first moon landing! I still remember laughing when my then wife wanted to know why I was not getting a haircut before I left ?. The food didn't agree with me like it did for you and I lost 20 pounds in boot camp (back then I couldn't afford to lose that much). After that I was sent for electronics training on Governor's Island in NYC where the future chefs also had school. That food was outstanding. I had never had steak and potatoes (or grits) for breakfast before. The lobster boats got inspected every Friday so we had plenty of the rejects for dinner.

 

[huskyd]

I think you should reread the post you are disparaging. He inferred that the " kitchen help" would likely be too discerning to eat what the young ladies are being offered. I do not see the insult you have inferred. And young Oliver was not plaintively asking for something delicious, but just something to fill his stomach rather than please his palate. Tch,tch!

With respect 'Bama, Carnac is a self-confessed disparager of kitchen help. No amount of diversionary chit-chat can refute a man's heartfelt confession. And who, besides you and Bob Woodward, really knows what Oliver had in mind?

 

[Hedge]

It turns out that the NCAA is providing tests which are "cheaper and generally provides quicker results but is less sensitive and more likely to yield false negatives" than what they are providing to the men

Anger Erupts Over Disparities at N.C.A.A. Tournaments (Published 2021)

Officials apologized for providing inadequate facilities for the women’s basketball players, but later acknowledged they were also receiving cheaper, less sensitive coronavirus tests.

www.nytimes.com

 

[lebronfan23]

I just hope these players know at the end of the day they are there to win a National Championship and doesn’t lose sight on the bigger prize.

 

[Dokey]

It's been all over Twitter and Tik Tok about the differences for the women inside the bubble. They have one, yes one, tiny rack of dumbbells while the men have a weight room I can only dream about. It's also been said that some of the women have been skipping meals because the food is so bad. The NCAA had plenty of time to prepare. It's unacceptable; yet predictable.

So guess who entered the picture and got the women equipment—Dick’s Sports. It is nice to know there are still good guys out there. I buy all my sporting goods there. You should to.

 

[j66kicker]

So guess who entered the picture and got the women equipment—Dick’s Sports. It is nice to know there are still good guys out there. I buy all my sporting goods there. You should to.

I shop there too because Sports Authority went out of business. Dick's got called out nationally 4-5 years ago when an Arizona H.S. girl BB player raised a fuss about them not carrying much women's equipment, not showing many females in their catalogs & website, etc. They apologized and committed to improve their mix of female goods and exposure.

 

[chrissaran]

They're not women; they're girls, which is how many people see them. Geno always said he coaches basketball players. They're basketball players who deserve equal treatment. You would think we live in a country where women can't drive, or they have to walk behind men, or they can't get an education. What a load of @#&%$*!

 

[Bama fan]

With respect 'Bama, Carnac is a self-confessed disparager of kitchen help. No amount of diversionary chit-chat can refute a man's heartfelt confession. And who, besides you and Bob Woodward, really knows what Oliver had in mind?

I think the Artful Dodger knew. As for Carnac's intentions, they are hermetically sealed and indiscernible to my unpracticed eye. Go Huskies!

 

[j66kicker]

Just saw Jay Bilas interviewed on SportCenter regarding the NCAA tourney inequities. He blasted Mark Emmert for:

1) The inequitable situation to begin with,

2) Not doing anything about it,

3) Not saying anything about it until the NCAA got called out by players (entire AP All-American team), coaches (Dawn Staley), former players (Sabrina Ionescu), NBA players (Ja Morant, CJ McCollum), etc,

4) Throwing Lynn Holzman to the wolves by delegating the "We fell short" speech to her and not facing the world himself, and

5) Emmert's remarkable lack of leadership in general, as exemplified (once again) by the current situation.

Didn't mince words.

 

[UcMiami]

this MAY shed some light

That is an interesting insight. Still doesn't make any sense that the NCAA Women would have to wait 10 days for their weight room, but the fact that it was telegraphed and none of the school ADs brought up the issue. Great that Georgia read the small print in the 90 page manual and understood it and took steps to bring their own weight room with them. Would have been even better if they called the SEC and the NCAA offices and raised a holy stink about the situation.

(I doubt many coaches actually read the whole thing - that is a classic 'administrative' task that gets delegated. Some lowly administrators are probably on the hot seat for not bring this up when they read the book.)

 

[Wbbfan1]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/19/ncaa-womens-basketball-unequal/?utm_campaign=wp_sports&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Author was a Personal Friend of Pat Summitt and was the Ghost Writer for Pat's Book.

 

[UcMiami]

Not an overall fan of Sally, but that is a good article.

 

[HuskyNan]

Sad commentary, to say the very least. NCAA hierarchy is to blame. They had as much time to accommodate the women as they did the men. As a fan of WCBB I am appalled. The women have gained little to not much, over the span of time since Title IX. Hosts are what they are. The NCAA did their home work and declared "good enough".

Title IX isn’t about sports. It’s a law that requires equality of the genders in publicly funded institutions.

Title IX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MainefanSC]

Title IX isn’t about sports. It’s a law that requires equality of the genders in publicly funded institutions.

Title IX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, understood. BUT, it did "jump start" sports programs that girls did not previously have available to them.

 

[VaConnFan11]

Why are any of you surprised? The entity that brings in the money gets the perks. Simple fact of life. As someone posted, the men bring in 50 TIMES what the women bring in, so why would anyone expect the participants to be treated the same?

Then NBA and WNBA players are not treated the same. Why? MONEY!

 

[Carnac]

View attachment 66015

The simple answer here is to have ONE company or vendor supply swag bags for the men's and women's teams, with EXPLICIT instructions from the NCAA that ALL bags are to be exactly the same.....gender not withstanding. How hard is THAT?!? The NCAA has failed to insure equality on various levels so far. As has been mentioned, there was plenty of time to plan and make sure that all of the i's and t's were dotted and crossed.

It's clear here that there are SEVERAL administrators at the NCAA offices that just don't get it.!!! If they can get it right, all they have to do is bring (hire) some retired division one men's and women coaches (temporarily) to plan, coordinate and oversee the operations for both tournaments top to bottom. THEY would get it right. They know first hand what is needed, expected and desired. If WE (fans and interested observers) can figure out viable solutions to this on-going problem of disparity between the men's and women's tournament facilities and support infrastructure, why can't they?

The women have been in the back seat from day one, and continue to be. Emmert needs to step down or be fired. I wonder how a former female head coach with prior administrative experience and responsibilities would do at his post? There are a lot of them out there that could do a great job if given the opportunity. The buck stops on Emmert's desk, and he dropped the ball. He peed in the bed.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Because of the players exposing the disparities in their facilities and quality of food publicly, changes will be made immediately. The question is why couldn't those issues been addressed earlier? Insuring that both the men's and the women's facilities, food and COVID test are exactly the same. It's not rocket science. All it takes is attention to detail and some follow-up and follow through. This is embarrassing for the Mark Emmert and his staff. The thought here is (from the women's prospective) "Don't tell me you love me, SHOW ME you love me." The actions so far by the NCAA planners and administrators have shown how much they love and respect the women.......not much!!! I don't understand how they thought they could pull this off and people not see it for what is really is? SMH.

Brianna Turner summed it up best: The NCAA men's tournament vibe: "We're happy to have you here." The women's tournament vibe: "You should be happy you're here."

 

[UcMiami]

Why are any of you surprised? The entity that brings in the money gets the perks. Simple fact of life. As someone posted, the men bring in 50 TIMES what the women bring in, so why would anyone expect the participants to be treated the same?

Then NBA and WNBA players are not treated the same. Why? MONEY!

Well, cause unlike the WNBA and NBA my tax dollars pay a lot of money to colleges, and it is the law of the land. And, um, for a non-profit they sure obfuscate their finances when it comes to the WCBB tournament. They make sure they break out the men's tournament, but lump the women's with all the other sports - why not lump all the money losing championships in with their cash cow, and break out the other money making tournament - the WCBB tournament? Is it because then they might have to pay out a reasonable participation bonus to the participants instead of lining their pockets.

 

[LoTrader]

Annual revenue generated from NCAA basketball tournaments:

Men's - $1.8 billion
Women's - $35 million

Women’s March Madness Is Growing in Popularity—and Undervalued

The men’s NCAA tournament generates billions, but the women’s bracket remains an afterthought in the NCAA’s overall picture.

www.wsj.com

Revenue isn't profit. You have to INVEST to get a return. I'd say that there is quite a disparity between the $ amount invested in the Men's NCAA Tournament vs Women's NCAA Tournament. What would the Women's Tournament be today if the same $ were invested in the Women's Tournament as is invested in the Men's Tournament?