Discouraging, But you Never Can Tell...

[buckaineer]

The Big XII offered partial membership. The Big XII got a big old Moon. And the Big XII opportunity for Notre Dame is gone. Thank you guys very much.

the BIG 12 has offered two schools membership recently- TCU and WVU. Both accepted. Notre Dame was never offered by the league and only the ACC offered ND the ability to keep its independence in football, take bowl games, exposure and revenues from its league for a minor payout increase which the ACC was desperate for.

 

[billybud]

Bucky does rant on about the ACC...it is his passion.

I spent half of my life as a fan with my team playing as an independent. Haven't, after 23 years, really gotten into the conference stuff.

As long as my team can do well...and it has,

I understand Notre Dame's feelings....It is all about how their team does, not other folks.

Saying that, the ACC has been good for FSU. Three national championships since joining...Only Alabama has won more in the BCS Era (3 to FSU's 2).

The Big 12 isn't a bad league...it just, other then Texas and Oklahoma, features flyover schools and WVU stuck way out east.

WVU is a great program and should be playing in the east. Maybe the Big 12 will put together an eastern pod and that would be interesting...

I have always thought that the ACC and SEC made an error by not picking up the Eers.

 

[NickyNewark]

Bucky does rant on about the ACC...it is his passion.

I spent half of my life as a fan with my team playing as an independent. Haven't, after 23 years, really gotten into the conference stuff.

As long as my team can do well...and it has,

I understand Notre Dame's feelings....It is all about how their team does, not other folks.

Saying that, the ACC has been good for FSU. Three national championships since joining...Only Alabama has won more in the BCS Era (3 to FSU's 2).

The Big 12 isn't a bad league...it just, other then Texas and Oklahoma, features flyover schools and WVU stuck way out east.

WVU is a great program and should be playing in the east. Maybe the Big 12 will put together an eastern pod and that would be interesting...

I have always thought that the ACC and SEC made an error by not picking up the Eers.

I also was never too big on conference because the team I follow was an Indy for half or more of my life also. I also agree on WVU except I don't think the SEC is natural for them but the ACC is outside of the fact they get a bad knock as an educational dud !?! My nephew received a fine education there and had a fair to good SAT score(1370)IMO. Almost heaven.

 

[btstimpy]

the BIG 12 is a national conference that spreads from. Texas through the northern midwest to the Ohio Valley/Western PA/Mid Atlantic region. its one of the most succesful conferences that have existed with more top four finishes than anyone other than the SEC by far. The BIG 12 had nine of ten in bowls the previous year for a historical record. the BIG 12 was the top revenue conference last year for all media rights and will continue to keep pace with the other leagues. Consistent success and continued success. Oklahoma didn't get the chance to play but clearly could have defeated FSU as they stomped everyone's season long Number one Alabama. The last two times OU and FSU played it wasnt close- just a couple of seasons back. OU won in a landslide.

The ACC had one good year in nearly twenty after being pumped up all season by their media partner. FSU despite being good for the ACC had the lowest sos of any team in a decade after playing in the fourth lowest rated conference last year-- which was a drastic move up for the ACC. The ACC is now a conference with BC on an island, SU on an island, Pitt on an island, soon UL on an island, Miami on an island, all separated by great distances from the rest of the conference mostly located in the southeast. The SEC and Big Ten dominate the television and fanbases in the majority of ACC " territory-by a wide margin. The ACC has the lowest payouts by far of all major conferences despite getting two increases in just a short period after turning over all media rights to their tv partner, who now has a year long "feel good" blitz going for that league. ACC is the only P5 league with a lawsuit attempting to keep other schools from leaving by punishing one that is leaving.

Talk about trash- no one from the ACC should be saying anything.

LOL. I didn't realize that there were so many islands on the east coast. But whatever, Syracuse can do a flyover to Boston College and be fine.

ACC schools will make more money than Big XII schools in TV money in 2013-2914. It will be around $23 milion for the ACC schools while $20 million for the Big XII. And with 11 bowl schools, the BCS National Champion, and the Orange Bowl Champion, there is a rather large bowl fund on top of that. You can keep saying that the ACC is the lowest, and you can continue to be incorrect. It's up to you.

 

[buckaineer]

Buddy plays an interesting game. When he thought FSU was going to leave the conference he now pretends not to care about, he ran all over the internet preaching and ranting how great his conference was and how it was the best place for FSU, blah, blah, blah. Now, suddenly when he realizes his school has been bamboozled he never cared--LOL. I am certain many of you have read his b.s. elsewhere and know of what I speak of.

The BIG 12 is a national conference that has two major networks carrying its games coast to coast and internationally. The ACC is made up of four Carolina schools, an odd mix of tiny private schools and large public institutions spread in odd pockets around the east. There is a small pocket in Boston, a small pocket in upstate NY State, a small pocket in western PA, a giant leap to the rest of the conference, a small pocket in places like Miami and Atlanta, a portion of western South Carolina and NC and VA--much of the VA market though is the DC area where fans of many schools hail from.

I've always thought FSU was a good program. It's too bad that FSU's president kaibashed a move for them before the BIG 12 showed serious interest. Always thought it would have been good if the BIG 12 had saved FSU from its basketball centric conference dominated by UNC and Duke and filled with tiny privates that make up the weakest and lowest revenue conference of the majors.

 

[buckaineer]

LOL. I didn't realize that there were so many islands on the east coast. But whatever, Syracuse can do a flyover to Boston College and be fine.

ACC schools will make more money than Big XII schools in TV money in 2013-2914. It will be around $23 milion for the ACC schools while $20 million for the Big XII. And with 11 bowl schools, the BCS National Champion, and the Orange Bowl Champion, there is a rather large bowl fund on top of that. You can keep saying that the ACC is the lowest, and you can continue to be incorrect. It's up to you.

LOL! ACC schools won't get more from their conference than BIG 12 schools do. The ACC paid out more than $4 million less than the BIG 12 did last year and that will continue throughout the contracts--in fact it will likely get wider. The ACC's top dog FSU only made a little over $18 mil for 2013 from the ACC. The BIG 12 paid out more than $22 million last year, and the payouts grow throughout the contract. By 2015 the BIG 12 will be paying out over $30 million to members-not including tier 3 television rights schools control for themselves. The ACC's bowl revenues have to be split between 14 or 15 schools. You forget the BIG 12 also had bowls-which payout more than ACC bowls did and had two BCS reps as well. I haven't been uncorrect about the ACC's low

 

[btstimpy]

LOL! ACC schools won't get more from their conference than BIG 12 schools do. The ACC paid out more than $4 million less than the BIG 12 did last year and that will continue throughout the contracts--in fact it will likely get wider. The ACC's top dog FSU only made a little over $18 mil for 2013 from the ACC. The BIG 12 paid out more than $22 million last year, and the payouts grow throughout the contract. By 2015 the BIG 12 will be paying out over $30 million to members-not including tier 3 television rights schools control for themselves. The ACC's bowl revenues have to be split between 14 or 15 schools. You forget the BIG 12 also had bowls-which payout more than ACC bowls did and had two BCS reps as well. I haven't been uncorrect about the ACC's low

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. No idea. But keep talking. The Big XII had bowls paying out more than the ACC? Hardly. Not even close. And with Big XII only putting 6 teams in bowls against the ACC putting 11 teams in bowls including 2 BCS bowls, the ACC can handle the 14 members vs 10 members just fine.

 

[billybud]

Buck...all I have done is attempt to keep the "kooks" straight.

"Kooks" is the term that affectionately we use for the internet crazies (mainly WVU folks like the Dude, Buckaineer, mhver

I like the GT hipsters since they follow kookism...and even translate in kook.

Sample:

"Nice article from Teel with VT's new AD. Shows the visions he has for VT in the future and mentions at the end that he and Swofford have talked and Babcock feels that VT is and ideal fit in the ACC and hopes to become a top program not only in FB, but every sport in the conference."

[kook] If Babcock truly believed that the ACC was the right home for VT, then why does he feel the need to mention it publicly? Is VT really that insecure about both its place in the ACC and its confidence in the conference to support big-time, collegiate athletics? If VT was really happy, then why are they loading up their future schedules with BIG opponents? This is just smoke to mask a move to the BIG by 2015, 2016 at the latest. [/kook]

 

[HawkHusky]

Big 12/ACC/Notre Dame pissing match. Way to hijack a thread...

 

[billybud]

Yeah...Think I'll change my handle to DB Cooper.

 

[buddy]

Buddy plays an interesting game. When he thought FSU was going to leave the conference he now pretends not to care about, he ran all over the internet preaching and ranting how great his conference was and how it was the best place for FSU, blah, blah, blah. Now, suddenly when he realizes his school has been bamboozled he never cared--LOL. I am certain many of you have read his b.s. elsewhere and know of what I speak of.

The BIG 12 is a national conference that has two major networks carrying its games coast to coast and internationally. The ACC is made up of four Carolina schools, an odd mix of tiny private schools and large public institutions spread in odd pockets around the east. There is a small pocket in Boston, a small pocket in upstate NY State, a small pocket in western PA, a giant leap to the rest of the conference, a small pocket in places like Miami and Atlanta, a portion of western South Carolina and NC and VA--much of the VA market though is the DC area where fans of many schools hail from.

I've always thought FSU was a good program. It's too bad that FSU's president kaibashed a move for them before the BIG 12 showed serious interest. Always thought it would have been good if the BIG 12 had saved FSU from its basketball centric conference dominated by UNC and Duke and filled with tiny privates that make up the weakest and lowest revenue conference of the majors.

Billybud is not "Buddy". I am the one and only "Buddy"

 

[buckaineer]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. No idea. But keep talking. The Big XII had bowls paying out more than the ACC? Hardly. Not even close. And with Big XII only putting 6 teams in bowls against the ACC putting 11 teams in bowls including 2 BCS bowls, the ACC can handle the 14 members vs 10 members just fine.

I have no idea what im talking about, but you think The ACC makes more money than the BIG 12 on a per school basis? You better prepare yourself for severe shock and depression over the next several years, unless the delusion through which you post goes away. The BIG 12 s payouts are higher and will continue to be higher than the ACCs.

 

[buckaineer]

Billybud is not "Buddy". I am the one and only "Buddy"

Apologize for that--- certainly didnt intend any insult.

Big 12/ACC/Notre Dame pissing match. Way to hijack a thread...

i came here because i saw UConn fans discussing expansion no hijack intended on my part. the WVU boards have been overrun by ACC trolls like billybud to the point discussion cant be had about WVU anymore. I see they are attempting to take over your boards in the same manner.

 

[Fishy]

Eh, they're not trolls.

Stone crazy in one instance, but perfectly pleasant individuals otherwise and they're welcome here.

 

[btstimpy]

I have no idea what im talking about, but you think The ACC makes more money than the BIG 12 on a per school basis? You better prepare yourself for severe shock and depression over the next several years, unless the delusion through which you post goes away. The BIG 12 s payouts are higher and will continue to be higher than the ACCs.

Yes Sir. You have ZERO idea what you are talking about, and the ACC payouts are higher than the Big XII going forward. Book it!

 

[Fishy]

Nah.

The ACC payout is less now and they've sold the rights to everything right down to the dustbunnies under their beds. The Big 12 payout is for only for tier one and two rights.

The schools themselves retain their tier three rights and that is big money.

 

[billybud]

Tier 3 isn't big money yet...WVU got about $7.5 million for everything not Tier 1 and 2 when they put it out to bid.

And Tier 3 is defined as everything not covered by tiers 1&2.

The Pac 12 hasn't yet made a dime off of their network yet.

UNC gets $11 million for their tier 3 radio/media rights...FSU gets $6.6 on a 15 year old contract. To be upgraded in 2015 upon expiration to around $10 million, according to the scuttlebutt.

It is the BGN that seems to be the world wide leader in terms of tier 3 monies...and they have been working on it longest.

I suspect that it will be the SECN and BGN that will be the moneymakers for the next decade.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

You think it's about adding quality content? Are you familiar with Rutgers at all?

If the Big Ten wanted UConn it's one phone call. The idea they are sitting around debating or considering UConn is silly.

BTW. the BTN is available in New England, I watched Nebraska and Michigan State today on that very network.

Go figure out how UConn adds $75 million to the Big Ten conference revenue a year - literally nothing rlse matters.

Of course it's about quality content. Figure out yourself how any team reels in $75 million/yr. for a conference with no quality content. We all understand why Rutgers was added. Quality can't provide maximum value if outlets are limited. BTW, the BTN being AVAILABLE wherever you were in New England is hardly the same as universal, basic access carriage in all of New England.

Are you familiar with "Rome wasn't built in a day" at all? The idea the B1G isn't debating and considering UConn is what's silly. The B1G not calling UConn TODAY isn't the same as UConn not being in their future eastern expansion plans.

 

[billybud]

I am sort of ambiguous about the $$$ aspect of networks....I do understand the importance of the arms race...paying coaches, keeping up with the Joneses, and all of that.

But what I, as a fan, want, is access. I thought about this yesterday afternoon as I watched the Seminoles play Georgia in baseball by streaming the game. The production was top notch, the streaming seamless.

I love streaming, I can watch almost all baseball games and basketball games no matter where I am as long as I can access the net.

I don't know how future technology will develop, but I think that the internet will be involved.

 

[buckaineer]

Yes Sir. You have ZERO idea what you are talking about, and the ACC payouts are higher than the Big XII going forward. Book it!

The AJC and the university of Maryland have discussed openly what the payouts to ACC members will be.

You clearly don't know, and you have 0 idea of what the BIG 12's payouts are or will be. BIG 12 payouts only include tiers one and two and they are ahead of the ACC's payouts. They also are renewed years before the ACC's payouts.

 

[buckaineer]

Tier 3 isn't big money yet...WVU got about $7.5 million for everything not Tier 1 and 2 when they put it out to bid.

And Tier 3 is defined as everything not covered by tiers 1&2.

The Pac 12 hasn't yet made a dime off of their network yet.

UNC gets $11 million for their tier 3 radio/media rights...FSU gets $6.6 on a 15 year old contract. To be upgraded in 2015 upon expiration to around $10 million, according to the scuttlebutt.

It is the BGN that seems to be the world wide leader in terms of tier 3 monies...and they have been working on it longest.

I suspect that it will be the SECN and BGN that will be the moneymakers for the next decade.

Again ACCspin from someone who pretends to not really care about a conference.

BIG 12 tier 3 television money is significant. Tier 3 television money isn't defined as everything not covered by tiers 1 & 2--thats what ACC types want you to believe--actually I think they want their own membership to believe it because they still fear schools like FSU looking elsewhere.

FSU --top dog for revenues from the ACC and biggest football name by far--made $355,000 for broadcast, tv, radio, and internet rights. They didn't make anywhere near $6.6 million. This isn't from me, its from FSU's published fiscal report. That's what the ACC is calling their "tier 3" for the year ended June 30 2013. The university of Texas, the top revenue earner for the BIG 12 makes over ten million per year for their tier 3 TELEVISION. They also make revenues higher than FSU for those same radio and internet rights and all that. Other BIG 12 schools are doing the same--making money on both the televised games they can market and other broadcast, radio, internet rights.

WVU originally got a tier 3 contract including televised games guaranteed for over $9 million per year. After a local WV media provider raised issues on the process used in the bidding, it was redone and is now in the $7 million per year range. However WVU left several revenue generating sums out of the second bid and controls them themselves now outside the IMG contract. The $7 million is also just guaranteed money--not total money that can be paid based on performance. IMG has already reported they earned much more than anticipated in just the first year of the contract.

With their lucrative tv contracts and tier 3 television deals -along with other revenue streams all conferences get--BIG 12 schools will maintain conference payouts per school on par with the other top conferences such as the Big Ten and SEC, while ACC revenues per school do not escalate at anywhere near the same type of numbers.

 

[buckaineer]

Of course it's about quality content. Figure out yourself how any team reels in $75 million/yr. for a conference with no quality content. We all understand why Rutgers was added. Quality can't provide maximum value if outlets are limited. BTW, the BTN being AVAILABLE wherever you were in New England is hardly the same as universal, basic access carriage in all of New England.

Are you familiar with "Rome wasn't built in a day" at all? The idea the B1G isn't debating and considering UConn is what's silly. The B1G not calling UConn TODAY isn't the same as UConn not being in their future eastern expansion plans.

Living in Big Ten country and being around when realignment was being considered, UConn certainly came up from time to time in the sports media and talk about expansion candidates. I do believe they have evaluated UConn and their addition into the conference.

 

[Adios]

Living in Big Ten country and being around when realignment was being considered, UConn certainly came up from time to time in the sports media and talk about expansion candidates. I do believe they have evaluated UConn and their addition into the conference.

We are aware that the B1G has had us on their radar for a while. It's being done to break down the psyche of traditionalist B1G fans.

 

[whaler11]

Of course it's about quality content. Figure out yourself how any team reels in $75 million/yr. for a conference with no quality content. We all understand why Rutgers was added. Quality can't provide maximum value if outlets are limited. BTW, the BTN being AVAILABLE wherever you were in New England is hardly the same as universal, basic access carriage in all of New England.

Are you familiar with "Rome wasn't built in a day" at all? The idea the B1G isn't debating and considering UConn is what's silly. The B1G not calling UConn TODAY isn't the same as UConn not being in their future eastern expansion plans.

UConn hardly gets them all of New England. If they did they would already be in the league. From their viewpoint it gets them 7 counties in Connecticut.

If UConn is in a long term expansion plan the worst way to go about it would be to let them twist in the AAC wind. Every day in the league makes the program less valuable.

Clearly it's not about quality programming it's about money. Nebraska happens to be valuable because of quality of programming. Rutgers is the exact opposite of quality.

Delany made it very clear - so I'm not sure why it's ignored.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

UConn hardly gets them all of New England. If they did they would already be in the league. From their viewpoint it gets them 7 counties in Connecticut.

If UConn is in a long term expansion plan the worst way to go about it would be to let them twist in the AAC wind. Every day in the league makes the program less valuable.

Clearly it's not about quality programming it's about money. Nebraska happens to be valuable because of quality of programming. Rutgers is the exact opposite of quality.

Delany made it very clear - so I'm not sure why it's ignored.

I imagine we're largely in agreement. UConn doesn't deliver all of New England today. The point is, the B1G isn't looking to expand in the east based on the revenues they'll collect next month. Gaining and exploiting a dominant position in the northeast megalopolis is a 20-year proposition.

Yes, its about money. More than that, it's about maximizing money. You maximize revenues by delivering quality, not crap. Whatever Rutgers has been and currently is, I doubt that's the plan for the future. The B1G surely knows there are serious risks in their latest undertaking. They also have to realize Rutgers being Rutgers is a big component of those risks. Risky, multi-decade endeavors aren't entered into whimsically.

I believe any invitation to UConn will be held up until the affects of the Rutgers/Maryland acquisition are better understood. If the B1G finds out they can't move the dial on college sports in NYC, there will be a pull back without an invitation to UConn. If their experience over the next few years convinces them the can achieve significant success here, I believe a UConn invite is inevitable because NYC is too large for one team to deliver and hold.

 

[Fishy]

UConn would bring the parts of New England anyone would care about - no one stays awake wonder if Vermont or Maine is going to tune into their sports programming.

UConn is a draw in Connecticut, western Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Long Island, New York City and the Hudson Valley. But a P5 invite is anything but inevitable - we 'look' like an ACC school and are hoping for a Big Ten invite....that's thin ice.

 

[metsfan2323]

Every day in the league makes the program less valuable.

This has been the prevailing theory on this board, but to date there has been zero evidence that it is true. The AAC has to date surpassed reasonable expectations.

and before you say attendance drop off at the Rent, that was P's doing and it would have happened even without the destruction of the Big East. When you can't beat Towson a number of fans are going to stay home.

The energy at the Michigan game showed we belong and that won't go away if we are stuck in the AAC for a while.

 

[billybud]

Again ACCspin from someone who pretends to not really care about a conference.

BIG 12 tier 3 television money is significant. Tier 3 television money isn't defined as everything not covered by tiers 1 & 2--thats what ACC types want you to believe--actually I think they want their own membership to believe it because they still fear schools like FSU looking elsewhere.

FSU --top dog for revenues from the ACC and biggest football name by far--made $355,000 for broadcast, tv, radio, and internet rights. They didn't make anywhere near $6.6 million. This isn't from me, its from FSU's published fiscal report. including televised games guaranteed for over $9 million per year. After a local WV media provider raised issues on the process used in the bidding, it was redone and is now in the $7 million per year range. .

Bucky you Kook!! I keep having to correct you.

"ISP Sports has acquired the exclusive marketing rights to Florida State University athletics with a 10-year deal that will pay the Seminoles $6.6 million per year in guaranteed money"

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...Take-Over-Seminoles-Rights.aspx?hl=And 1&sc=0y."

 

[billybud]

Bucky:

ISP Sports’ top deals
SchoolValueLength
Arkansas$73 million10 years
Arizona State$70 million10 years
Florida State$66 million10 years
South Carolina^$59 million9 years
Auburn$51.3 million9 years
^ Extension
Source: SportsBusiness Journal research

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...ISP-Deal-Would-Put-Georgia-Into-Top-Tier.aspx

 

[Fishy]

Bucky you Kook!! I keep having to correct you.

"ISP Sports has acquired the exclusive marketing rights to Florida State University athletics with a 10-year deal that will pay the Seminoles $6.6 million per year in guaranteed money"

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2007/02/20070212/This-Weeks-News/ISP-Sports-To-Take-Over-Seminoles-Rights.aspx?hl=And 1&sc=0y."

That's not tier 3.

UConn marketing and multimedia rights are worth almost $2M a year more than Florida State's. ($80M over ten.)

So nyah, nyah.