Discouraging, But you Never Can Tell... | Page 15 | The Boneyard

Discouraging, But you Never Can Tell...

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"Obvious reason?" Gee....speculate much? The truth is that you don't have any idea as to the ACC's strategy. This is your own speculation. Nothing more, nothing less. Just as is your contention that the ACC "stands to lose far more than they could ever gain...." Again, just your speculation...and it should not be confused with fact.

just my two cents.

What makes you think the ACC has a strategy? Louisville wasn't part of a strategy. It was a panicky reaction resulting in an abandonment of principle. Which strategic element had them accepting partial members?

BC, Syracuse, and Pitt represent what part of their strategy? Those three additions sound suspiciously like Col. Custer attempting to bolster his troops' morale at the Little Bighorn by saying, "Don't worry, men, we're going to surround them."
 
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The ACC continues to sue Maryland, and they stand to lose far more there than they could ever gain in that. That brings into question why? The obvious reason is the ACC doesn't believe other teams will be scared into not leaving the conference unless they somehow win that case or drag it out for an extended period of time.


The ACC only stands to lose more than they gain if the Maryland counterclaim has any validity at all and is not merely a legal ploy in negotiations, which I believe it is.

Your dislike of the ACC leads you to look for things that are not true. For instance, for months you argued that the ACC did not really sign a GOR. This, despite everyone but you saying that they did.
 
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Everybody speculates. ACC types speculate all the time that its case closed in terms of Maryland. No one knows what the courts will rule at this time. We do know though that the ACC continues to sue Maryland despite the fact that Maryland isn't staying. So then that leaves money? Except for the fact that Maryland is suing them with terms that include treble damages. Triple the $52 million--a lawsuit that is proceeding in court in NC, and can be continued in Maryland regardless of what happens in the NC case (on hold now) is serious financial risk to all ACC members--every bit the risk they think they are putting UMD under. There is also discovery happening right now. At least Pittsburgh and probably others are being subpoenaed for information that is sure to be of the damaging nature to the ACC.

And what can ACC schools gain from it? They've already withheld around $16 million from accounts--and Maryland is going to be out of the league by the end of June in just four or so months time. That means at best the ACC can withhold about the amount of the original increased buyout that was pushed through before UMD actually leaves. The chances they would be able to have the state of Maryland fork over anymore than that are pretty slim at best after July 1 2014. So why put all your schools in danger of losing huge sums and having to divulge conference and tv partners secrets in court?

Because you are concerned if you don't do it someone else is going to leave.


The ACC cannot legally just "self help" and withhold Maryland's payouts indefinitely without a judgment or settlement saying that they can.

That is the purpose of the ACC lawsuit, to be able to legally keep that money and maybe a bit more.
 

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I don't think that is the criterion. No school is likely to add incremental revenue from day 1, except perhaps Texas or North Carolina, but Texas would have to surrender the Longhorn network. These additions all need time to build revenue because it takes time for the B1G brand to build a local following. Yet transient losses of per-school revenue can be made up by giving a reduced payout to the new school for a period of time, as they've done for Nebraska, Rutgers, and Maryland.

If immediate revenue isn't the criterion, what are the criteria for B1G expansion? You would like to show that the TV revenue is not significantly reduced by adding the school as suggested by some combination of national brand and local market potential, and you have to believe that it adds strategic value in the long run. Strategic value is an amorphous thing but we know the B1G has identified two keys: (1) they see academic-athletic ties and want AAU research universities, and (2) the northeast megaplex is their key growth market and they want to strengthen their presence there. UConn is the best available property for #2 and if they believe we will be successful in Herbst's move toward #1 and if their TV networks tell them UConn provides enough value to maintain per-school revenues once its athletic program builds up stature, and if the lack-of-partner issue can be resolved (perhaps by the Swofford initiative to allow odd-numbered conferences to hold championships), then UConn has a chance.

The growth of the B1G to 14 schools raises the importance of strategic objectives and diminishes the significance of immediate revenue. Suppose UConn brings in $14 million less than the average B1G school in a new contract. This only costs each school $1 million a year. If they believe there is strategic value to giving their universities an athletic presence in New England/New York City, they may still push for UConn. That may be worth more than the $1 million per year. Whereas when the league was small, the $14 million gets divided fewer ways and is more salient to each school.

It would help to have a successful football team and a Final Four appearance.

This is why I think the Big 10 doesn't expand unless UNC or Texas are in play.

UConn's problem isn't the quality of the programs - it's fairly easy to see that they could field a credible football team if they got an invite somewhere.

Louisville didn't get invited because they were having a good season. They got invited because they were operating like a school that took athletics (specifically football) seriously.

Anyone who attended UConn's spring game last year could see what a Mickey Mouse operation P was running.

I'll believe someone will run a 15 team football league when I see one.
 

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Billybud is the master of Kook Talk--you have seen it recently as he claimed he doesn't have any care about conferences, yet is here talking trash for just that. Bee Bee works the internet 24-7 for the ACC.

buckaineer, you can't be older than 22, you sound like 18 or 19. If Billybud is a kook, at least he's a civil, cultured kook. Why not try to cultivate that yourself? It feels like you're spitting through the Internet.
 
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buckaineer, you can't be older than 22, you sound like 18 or 19. If Billybud is a kook, at least he's a civil, cultured kook. Why not try to cultivate that yourself? It feels like you're spitting through the Internet.
Ouch, coming from a nice guy like you thats got to hurt though I'm starting to accept you're advise on stimpy as a pretty good guy despite our differences and billy's insight was always interesting and folksy w/o being condescending for the most part. My guess on Bucky though is he's probably in his mid/late 30s but takes his CFB with youthful emotion like a lot of us older guys?
 
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The ACC cannot legally just "self help" and withhold Maryland's payouts indefinitely without a judgment or settlement saying that they can.

That is the purpose of the ACC lawsuit, to be able to legally keep that money and maybe a bit more.

Thank you, Terry, for succinctly describing the rationale of the lawsuit. The ACC has a strategy and is being advised by top legal professionals in pursuing it. As is obvious, this poster hates the ACC and everything they do will be looked at by him through this bias.

I also remember this poster at first stating that the ACC would never sign a GOR and, after it was announced, claiming it was never signed. I honestly don't think he realizes how foolish he sometimes sounds.
 
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Thank you, Terry, for succinctly describing the rationale of the lawsuit. The ACC has a strategy and is being advised by top legal professionals in pursuing it. As is obvious, this poster hates the ACC and everything they do will be looked at by him through this bias.

I also remember this poster at first stating that the ACC would never sign a GOR and, after it was announced, claiming it was never signed. I honestly don't think he realizes how foolish he sometimes sounds.
Hey guys I'm not exactly crazy about the ACC for my own reasons but they seem to have rightened the ship and have at least in the east seem to have more juice than the Big 12 !?! It is what it is....isnt perception reality? I have no bone to pick with Big12 or their fan's and admit being unfamiliar with their payouts. This CR is really up the regional conference system and my enjoyment of CFB.
 

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Hey guys I'm not exactly crazy about the ACC for my own reasons but they seem to have rightened the ship and have at least in the east seem to have more juice than the Big 12 !?! It is what it is....isnt perception reality? I have no bone to pick with Big12 or their fan's and admit being unfamiliar with their payouts. This CR is really up the regional conference system and my enjoyment of CFB.

Mine too. They have been pursuing the good of individual conferences or players but the net effect is to sabotage college football as a whole.

I am almost beginning to come around to thinking the likeliest way to right the ship is for the AAC to develop into a power conference. It's not out of the question. UCF and USF may one day compete on near equal terms with FSU and Florida - all are major state universities, in fact UCF and USC have better local markets. Houston and SMU could return to the days when they could rival TCU and Baylor. UConn is a rising power. Temple and Cincy have the potential to be as good as Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Duke, Wake Forest, Louisville. ECU might be able to compete on the field with NC State and UNC. Navy and Army would bring national exposure. Tulane once upon a time was a major player in college football, and is in a fertile recruiting area. Not saying this is likely, but if the P5 do not condense to 4, there will be a push to grow the football playoffs to 8 teams so that all P5 conference champions get in, and if that happens, there is room for P5 to become P6.
 
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I like and have considered you're thought myself. I would think the AAC could grab or combine with the best of the MWC and become a truly national American conference adding strength and viewing power in 2 divisions creating national interest that couldn't be ignored esp with LasVegas/SanDiego/Boise and the military academies involved. How could they get locked out? 4 time zones and all day viewing power with coast to coast media involved.
 
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buckaineer, you can't be older than 22, you sound like 18 or 19. If Billybud is a kook, at least he's a civil, cultured kook. Why not try to cultivate that yourself? It feels like you're spitting through the Internet.


Well that just goes to show you don't know what you are talking about.

Not sure how exactly I have been anything other than civil. After all its billy who is acting like a kid name calling because he didn't like the facts I posted. How again does that make him "civil" and me not?
 
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Well that just goes to show you don't know what you are talking about.

Not sure how exactly I have been anything other than civil. After all its billy who is acting like a kid name calling because he didn't like the facts I posted. How again does that make him "civil" and me not?
FWIW I've found you to be civil at least IMO. WVU has some segment of NY/NJ esp NJ following.
 
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FWIW I've found you to be civil at least IMO. WVU has some segment of NY/NJ esp NJ following.


Not sure about anything I've written that someone else would find "uncivil". Perhaps they just don't like the information I've posted about.
 
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Well that just goes to show you don't know what you are talking about.

Not sure how exactly I have been anything other than civil. After all its billy who is acting like a kid name calling because he didn't like the facts I posted. How again does that make him "civil" and me not?

"Facts"? What "facts" have you posted?? IMO, this highlights the basic issue that some people have with your posts. You confuse fact with opinion/speculation. Do you even realize what the differences are?

In this thread, you stated that the ACC must be scared of losing other members because they have not settled the exit fee dispute. You also claimed that the ACC was at risk due to the countersuit. Terry, who IS an attorney, explained a logical legal strategy as to why the ACC may be continuing to litigate, as well as what the countersuit may or may not be.

We shall see how this all plays out, of course. In the meantime I would suggest you become better acquainted with the differences between facts and opinions.

FWIW, I think PJ's observations are on the mark. IMO (notice I am stating this as an opinion), younger folks sometimes have difficulty appreciating the differences between facts and their own opinions. I know I sometimes did.
 
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Well that just goes to show you don't know what you are talking about.

Not sure how exactly I have been anything other than civil. After all its billy who is acting like a kid name calling because he didn't like the facts I posted. How again does that make him "civil" and me not?

LOL. You haven't posted a fact yet. But you seem to be worked up pretty well with your fantasies. Keep on dreaming. You lost me when you were saying that the Big XII makes as much money as the B1G and will continue to. I can't keep up with you because you keep coming up with whopper after whopper, and I'm stuck back in reality. But carry on.
 
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It's not surprising that ACC fans who revel in telling "tall tales" wouldn't understand facts--facts such as FSU's actual earnings for broadcast/radio tier 3 rights rather than the whopping $6 million claimed, or the fact that the university of Maryland will be out of their league in four months and the ACC won't be able to withhold $52 million from them by that time. Facts like they altered the leagues previously proclaimed polices to allow in a partial member and a school that didn't meet criteria for inclusion. Not surprising considering the ACC has been telling such fables as they make as much as everyone else, no ACC team has ever left or will leave, they are more stable than the BIG 12 while at the same time they are suing to prevent members from leaving and have a school set to depart in months time, gems like the ACC network is "guaranteed" and the league won't have to buy any rights back to get it going.

ACC fans don't understand reality, facts--or civility for that matter so none of these responses comes as a surprise.
 
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It's not surprising that ACC fans who revel in telling "tall tales" wouldn't understand facts--facts such as FSU's actual earnings for broadcast/radio tier 3 rights rather than the whopping $6 million claimed, or the fact that the university of Maryland will be out of their league in four months and the ACC won't be able to withhold $52 million from them by that time. Facts like they altered the leagues previously proclaimed polices to allow in a partial member and a school that didn't meet criteria for inclusion. Not surprising considering the ACC has been telling such fables as they make as much as everyone else, no ACC team has ever left or will leave, they are more stable than the BIG 12 while at the same time they are suing to prevent members from leaving and have a school set to depart in months time, gems like the ACC network is "guaranteed" and the league won't have to buy any rights back to get it going.

ACC fans don't understand reality, facts--or civility for that matter so none of these responses comes as a surprise.

p.s.--for a good laugh since you believe you are so knowledgeable about BIG 12 earnings--lets hear from you ACC geniuses again the "facts" of the BIG 12's future earnings.
 
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It's not surprising that ACC fans who revel in telling "tall tales" wouldn't understand facts--facts such as FSU's actual earnings for broadcast/radio tier 3 rights rather than the whopping $6 million claimed, or the fact that the university of Maryland will be out of their league in four months and the ACC won't be able to withhold $52 million from them by that time. Facts like they altered the leagues previously proclaimed polices to allow in a partial member and a school that didn't meet criteria for inclusion. Not surprising considering the ACC has been telling such fables as they make as much as everyone else, no ACC team has ever left or will leave, they are more stable than the BIG 12 while at the same time they are suing to prevent members from leaving and have a school set to depart in months time, gems like the ACC network is "guaranteed" and the league won't have to buy any rights back to get it going.

ACC fans don't understand reality, facts--or civility for that matter so none of these responses comes as a surprise.

Wow.......IMO, you sound like someone out of the Twilight Zone. You started off your posts by claiming as a "fact" that the ACC's decision to continue litigating the exit fees was proof that it was fearful of losing other members. You also claimed as fact that the ACC had a huge exposure with the countersuit. When you were called on both by other posters re: your so-called "facts", you respond by issuing a litany of new "facts", all having nothing to do in supporting what you first claimed about the ACC.

IMO, PJ's observations about you were right on the money.
 
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Wow..IMO, you sound like someone out of the Twilight Zone. You started off your posts by claiming as a "fact" that the ACC's decision to continue litigating the exit fees was proof that it was fearful of losing other members. You also claimed as fact that the ACC had a huge exposure with the countersuit. When you were called on both by other posters re: your so-called "facts", you respond by issuing a litany of new "facts", all having nothing to do in supporting what you first claimed about the ACC.

IMO, PJ's observations about you were right on the money.


The ACC is continuing to sue Maryland in order to stop other members from attempting to do the same. They rushed through the buyout against their own bylaws for this very reason. It certainly isn't to keep Maryland in the conference--they are gone.

It is a fact that the ACC has opened itself up to huge exposure via the countersuit. UMD has already subpoenaed one of the ACCs members. There are bound to be more subpoenaes if there haven't already been. ACC officials are required by law--and if it goes to trial -under oath to provide secrets of the conference and its tv partners. How anyone could claim that isn't "exposure" is very telling about who is making such statements.

I haven't been "called on both" as you erroneously claim, some of your comrades are claiming I haven't posted anything factual, they haven't seen anything factual from me at all posted. I proved them wrong by reiterating just a few of the facts I've posted. What I posted is simply a continuation of many of the facts I've been posting here.

As far as the other comments, it strikes me as interesting that I'm being called uncivil by ACC fans for discussing some facts that have been played loosely with by supporters, while at the same time they are calling me a liar, calling me names and attacking the veracity of my posts without providing anything real that remotely contradicts anything I've said.
 
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The ACC is continuing to sue Maryland in order to stop other members from attempting to do the same. They rushed through the buyout against their own bylaws for this very reason. It certainly isn't to keep Maryland in the conference--they are gone.

It is a fact that the ACC has opened itself up to huge exposure via the countersuit. UMD has already subpoenaed one of the ACCs members. There are bound to be more subpoenaes if there haven't already been. ACC officials are required by law--and if it goes to trial -under oath to provide secrets of the conference and its tv partners. How anyone could claim that isn't "exposure" is very telling about who is making such statements.

I haven't been "called on both" as you erroneously claim, some of your comrades are claiming I haven't posted anything factual, they haven't seen anything factual from me at all posted. I proved them wrong by reiterating just a few of the facts I've posted. What I posted is simply a continuation of many of the facts I've been posting here.

As far as the other comments, it strikes me as interesting that I'm being called uncivil by ACC fans for discussing some facts that have been played loosely with by supporters, while at the same time they are calling me a liar, calling me names and attacking the veracity of my posts without providing anything real that remotely contradicts anything I've said.
Whether it was in accordance with the bylaws is what part if the lawsuit is all about. You have reached a conclusion that it was done wrong and state that as a fact. It is not a fact. Until it is decided by the courts, it is not clear if there was a bylaw violation. The ACC is suing MD to assert what it believes are its right to collect on a withdrawal fee that was passed by the league appropriately. MD says that it was not done appropriately and is suing the ACC for that along with the arguing that the amount is unfair. Can we agree on the basis of the lawsuits?

Clearly you have never been sued or sued a business. You subpoena everyone and everything looking for a thread you can pull. Think the ACC hasn't done the same to UMD and quite possible the B1G? The "secrets", if there are any, are probably well known to MD and I guess the question what "secrets" MD might have should also factor into this. Everyone on the MD side will also be under oath, too. They will be compelled to spill "secrets" of teh B1G and how they got there.

Out of 13 pages of posts, the only facts that I see are that you are a UWV fan, there is UVA fan, an ND fan, BC fan, FSU fan and Uconn fans that have posted. Part of me just thinks you are pissed that UWV had to buy their way out of the BE for an early exit instead of being able to walk away for almost nothing like BC, VT, Miami, Pitt Cuse and Lville did. That the Big XII fronted that money is probably impacting the UWV AD right now. Hopefully the rifle team is fully funded. That and Huggins legal budget. Be happy that you are in a conference of the haves. But stop asserting that you only post facts.
 
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Whether it was in accordance with the bylaws is what part if the lawsuit is all about. You have reached a conclusion that it was done wrong and state that as a fact. It is not a fact. Until it is decided by the courts, it is not clear if there was a bylaw violation. The ACC is suing MD to assert what it believes are its right to collect on a withdrawal fee that was passed by the league appropriately. MD says that it was not done appropriately and is suing the ACC for that along with the arguing that the amount is unfair. Can we agree on the basis of the lawsuits?

Clearly you have never been sued or sued a business. You subpoena everyone and everything looking for a thread you can pull. Think the ACC hasn't done the same to UMD and quite possible the B1G? The "secrets", if there are any, are probably well known to MD and I guess the question what "secrets" MD might have should also factor into this. Everyone on the MD side will also be under oath, too. They will be compelled to spill "secrets" of teh B1G and how they got there.

Out of 13 pages of posts, the only facts that I see are that you are a UWV fan, there is UVA fan, an ND fan, BC fan, FSU fan and Uconn fans that have posted. Part of me just thinks you are pissed that UWV had to buy their way out of the BE for an early exit instead of being able to walk away for almost nothing like BC, VT, Miami, Pitt Cuse and Lville did. That the Big XII fronted that money is probably impacting the UWV AD right now. Hopefully the rifle team is fully funded. That and Huggins legal budget. Be happy that you are in a conference of the haves. But stop asserting that you only post facts.


The ACC isn't suing Maryland to determine whether or not it was ok via their bylaws to collect $52 million from Maryland.

The ACC sued Maryland to stop any other schools from attempting to leave the conference by showing they will indeed sue to try and enforce the buyout.

Maryland isn't staying, and from a legal standpoint it is highly doubtful the ACC is going to get $52 million extracted from Maryland and they surely know this. They are taking monies now--and UMD hasn't disputed that they could withhold monies, but that the league didn't follow its rules in when it began withholding. Further, that some of the money is actually Maryland's money from the NCAA, not the ACC's at all.

Maryland never said they wouldn't pay any buyout, they've claimed the amount is excessive and punitive-as has FSU. UMD will be out of the league by the end of June and the ACC isn't taking $52 million from them by then. The Maryland side of the lawsuit threatens the ACC with a loss of $157 million. To continue at this point is meaningless and even dangerous. And since the ACC claims they have a GOR, what is the point to continue unless they feel that if they lose other schools may depart (which several have discussed i.e. the letters obtained from UNC). To hold schools in is the entire purpose of the excessive buyout.

UMD presented the ACC bylaws in their original suit in the state of Maryland and in those bylaws it showed a timeline required for both notification of and change to the bylaws--which this new buyout is--a change. You and other ACC homers act as though it is some sort of longstanding bedrock of the conference. It's not--they changed it as a requirement of getting Notre Dame to sign on as a partial member-and after they had knowledge of schools looking elsewhere-just before UMD announced they were moving. Of course courts will rule on the matter, but the language is certainly in the bylaws produced as part of the suit and its well documented the ACC is claiming the buyout change became immediately effective.

As for your "secrets" theory, news reports show that Maryland subpoenaed Pitt, they don't show the ACC has done this to anyone. UMD was very open about the entire process and their reasons for moving and the entire account has been published in national news reports. The ACC on the other hand has had dealings whereby they destroyed the Big East conference by taking numerous teams, have changed buyouts with no justification repeatedly against members wishes, and have apparently along with their tv partner conspired to also harm the conference UMD was planning to move to. There are certainly damaging points that no ACC leader is going to want out in the open.

As far as facts, what I can see is that ACC fans have a very difficult time dealing with reality. Whenever facts come forward that show the ACC in anything other than a sunny light, ACC fans freak out and start lobbing all manner of venom including personal attacks, rather than discussing things rationally. Attack me, attack WVU, attack the BIG 12--but at some point you'll have to deal with the issues that are many and real in the ACC.
 
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Yada, yada, ....ACC is doomed...yada, yada.
An example of kook posting...

But I really don't much care.

FSU is in a very good place right now.

A much better place then some.

A Heisman QB, a National Chaampionship, a probable top five preseason ranking coming up and another top recruiting class...a baseball team ranked #2 by Baseball America, and a bright future.

Come to think of it though, the ACC is doing pretty decent...

National Champion in Football- FSU

A second BCS bowl win- Clemson over Ohio State

2 teams in Mens Hoops top 5 nationally

#1 and #2 ranked baseball team in Baseball America .
 
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Aaah yes, more uncivil ACC fan behavior above.

In the new season, a top five preseason ranking doesn't mean anything. The playoff committee will be ranking all top 25 schools and won't begin until sometime in October.

The ACC has less BCS bowl wins than any other P5 conference by far despite being gifted two BCS teams two years in a row for the first time in the conferences history.

In basketball the ACC stands as the number 5 conference nationally. Teams are ranked not because they defeated good teams or good OOC opponents, but because they have lots of wins against lighter competition.

The #1 basktball conference in the country is the BIG 12 conference in case anyone was wondering.
 
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I get it Bucky...you have a well tended neurosis that involves ACC hate.

If anyone posts something positive about that conference, it sets you off.
 
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I get it BeeBee ...you have a well tended neurosis that involves BIG 12 hate, WVU hate and a critical need to spread lies about the ACC in order to make yourself feel better.

This is a realignment board and I'm here to discuss real things that are happening, unlike you who is here to play childish name calling games, smear anyone who doesnt' agree with your ACC propoganda based on nothing, and disparage other schools and conferences. Grow up.
 
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