DiMauro: Ollie did enough wrong to warrant his firing by UConn

[UCDaveD]

The best part is: IF IT WERE TRUE AND THE NCAA INVESTIGATED IT THAT WOULD BE A BAD THING FOR UCONN.

In your ongoing despiration to nail Kevin Ollie to a cross - you’ve lost the plot so badly that you want Glen Miller’s ridiculous lies to be true.

But keep celebrating the rat, who totally worked alone Lee Harvey Oswald style

A reply ascribing me things I’ve never said and positions I’ve never taken. On-brand Whaler.

Keep searching for those clues, Nicholas Cage. You can’t be far from finding the National Treasure.

 

[Husky1972]

Anyone else ever notice what a huge bag of nothing Whaler is these days?

Yes, I did. With several other "contributors", as well.

Being busy and coming in a little late to the "Olliegate" chronicles consisting of several related threads with multiple pages, I have found that liberal use of the "Ignore" button results in much more fluid and interesting reading, and also reduces the # of pages significantly.

 

[ctchamps]

Actually the zero tolerance language is almost identical in Calhoun's last contract (2010, 2011 maybe.) Until I read it recently my thinking was the same as yours.

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

 

[whaler11]

If you are still trying to convince yourself it’s a wild conspiracy theory...

When did the news break? 90 minutes after their best game of the second half of the season.

Didn’t come from UConn according to Jacobs...

So now you have to additionally believe that Miller acting alone leaked to Jacobs to make the ‘investigation’ public. Glen Miller acting alone not only went full rat he leaked the news to Jacobs and just kept showing up at St Joe’s under the employ of Jim Calhoun.

Then he timed the leak as perfectly as possible for the AD - this is just another magnificient coincidence for Benedict/Herbst.

LOL.

 

[whaler11]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

Although Benedict being shot to the sun would make me very pleased, cut and run Suzie Lax can protect him because she resigned.

 

[ctchamps]

Although Benedict being shot to the sun would make me very pleased, cut and run Suzie Lax can protect him because she resigned.

Just the opposite. She will want to beg out of this as quickly as possible and head to her teaching gig. DB will not get a life raft from her. Be satisfied with a 2/3 victory. DB going down and the posters you consider hypocrites in this forum having to squirm over this.

 

[CL82]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

Your first impression was the correct take.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

"Single Bully Theory" sounds about right, but I'm not sure who it applies to, or whether it's being shot down or propped up.
Any takers?

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

As a contrasting speculative view, I always found the timing of Calhoun's retirement surprising given his hyper-competitive nature and how few additional wins he would have needed to surpass Dean Smith, Adolph Rupp, and even Bobby Knight. Before the 2011-12 season, all of them must have been clearly in his sights.

Jim Calhoun may not have gotten the easy pass that's widely implied, nor is it unreasonable to imagine that the need for compliance moving forward would have been stressed to his hand-picked successor.

To repeat, it's a speculative view, one that I offer as no less valid than others I am reading. My lack of confidence in its 'truth' is more a measure of humility and a desire for healthy settlement than weakness of case or character.

 

[UConnNick]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

The fact that the university chose not to strictly enforce any of Calhoun's contract terms should not result in Ollie being successful in arguing that waives any rights they have to enforce similar contract terms forever after. The contract establishes an employment at will relationship between the parties. Either party can terminate the contract subject to the provisions of the agreement. It would be a ludicrous result if an arbitrator or court ruled UConn will never again be allowed to enforce contract terms the same as or similar to Calhoun's because they chose not to enforce them in his case. If that's their ruling, the school might just as well never enter into employment contracts with coaches that contain those provisions, because they'll never be legally allowed to enforce those terms. If that's the best argument Ollie's lawyers can come up with, they better advise him to settle.

Frankly, it's likely more of a smokescreen than anything. His lawyers figure the threat of exposing a bunch of Calhoun era garbage will induce the school to make a more favorable settlement offer. It is sad to see the relationship between Ollie and Calhoun has degenerated to this extreme.

 

[ctchamps]

The fact that the university chose not to strictly enforce any of Calhoun's contract terms should not result in Ollie being successful in arguing that waives any rights they have to enforce similar contract terms forever after. The contract establishes an employment at will relationship between the parties. Either party can terminate the contract subject to the provisions of the agreement. It would be a ludicrous result if an arbitrator or court ruled UConn will never again be allowed to enforce contract terms the same as or similar to Calhoun's because they chose not to enforce them in his case. If that's their ruling, the school might just as well never enter into employment contracts with coaches that contain those provisions, because they'll never be legally allowed to enforce those terms. If that's the best argument Ollie's lawyers can come up with, they better advise him to settle.

Frankly, it's likely more of a smokescreen than anything. His lawyers figure the threat of exposing a bunch of Calhoun era garbage will induce the school to make a more favorable settlement offer. It is sad to see the relationship between Ollie and Calhoun has degenerated to this extreme.

Thanks for the explanation. I’m not sure a tactic by KO’s legal team tells us anything about the relationship of KO to JC. They would be negligent to not try to play this card.

As far as “at will” wasn’t there some disagreement among the legal members in this forum about the merits of that with KO’s contract?

 

[UConnDad]

I'm still unclear. Does the arbitrator only rule on the CBA? And KO's contract would be fought in court. Or do both come into play in both jurisdictions?

 

[8893]

As far as “at will” wasn’t there some disagreement among the legal members in this forum about the merits of that with KO’s contract?

It’s not “at will;” he could only be fired for just cause. That’s the whole point.

Of course they could dismiss him without cause at any time and pay him for the remainder of the contract term. Again, that’s not what “at will” means.

 

[Paesano]

Thanks for the explanation. I’m not sure a tactic by KO’s legal team tells us anything about the relationship of KO to JC. They would be negligent to not try to play this card.

As far as “at will” wasn’t there some disagreement among the legal members in this forum about the merits of that with KO’s contract?

Actually, if the choose to play this card instead of negotiating a settlement, THAT would be negligent!

 

[8893]

I'm still unclear. Does the arbitrator only rule on the CBA? And KO's contract would be fought in court. Or do both come into play in both jurisdictions?

It appears he can choose to go either to arbitration or to court, but not both. If he goes to arbitration the arbitrator is limited to the terms of KO’s contract, which includes the CBA.

If it goes to court, those claims will be considered “de novo,” meaning without any deference to Benedict’s or Herbst’s decisions in their reviews. And you can bring other claims in court too.

 

[CL82]

It’s not “at will;” he could only be fired for just cause. That’s the whole point.

Of course they could dismiss him without cause at any time and pay him for the remainder of the contract term. Again, that’s not what “at will” means.

He could be fired at anytime. Firing for just cause just removes terminates the contract and eliminates future payments.

 

[CL82]

It appears he can choose to go either to arbitration or to court, but not both. If he goes to arbitration the arbitrator is limited to the terms of KO’s contract, which includes the CBA.

If it goes to court, those claims will be considered “de novo,” meaning without any deference to Benedict’s or Herbst’s decisions in their reviews. And you can bring other claims in court too.

The union has 15 days to file for arbitration, so we should know what they plan to do relatively quickly.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

It appears he can choose to go either to arbitration or to court, but not both. If he goes to arbitration the arbitrator is limited to the terms of KO’s contract, which includes the CBA.

If it goes to court, those claims will be considered “de novo,” meaning without any deference to Benedict’s or Herbst’s decisions in their reviews. And you can bring other claims in court too.

Where's the language that says it's either party's option to choose contract litigation or arbitration after the hearing with Benedict and the review by Herbst? I haven't seen that,though I have wondered where the abridged Civil rights argument was grounded when first reported as raised by KO's legal team.

Also, I'm assuming that any Arbitration award, if that's the route, would be final and non-appealable except under very narrow grounds not likely applicable. Agree?

Ugh, just settle...

 

[8893]

He could be fired at anytime. Firing for just cause just removes terminates the contract and eliminates future payments.

Yes. That’s not at will. At will means no contract and no cause.

 

[huskymedic]

Where's the language that says it's either party's option to choose contract litigation or arbitration after the hearing with Benedict and the review by Herbst? I haven't seen that,though I have wondered where the abridged Civil rights argument was grounded when first reported as raised by KO's legal team.

Also, I'm assuming that any Arbitration award, if that's the route, would be final and non-appealable except under very narrow grounds not likely applicable. Agree?

Ugh, just settle...

Here:

From AAUP Contract link above:
View attachment 32321

... and here:

They will use the American Arbitration Association and this is the applicable contract language:

AAUP Article 10: Authority of the Arbitrator (pg 6)

“The arbitrator shall hear and decide only one (1) grievance in each case. The arbitrator shall neither add to, subtract from, modify not alter the terms and provisions of this agreement. Arbitration shall be confined solely to the application and/or interpretation of this agreement and the precise issue submitted for arbitration. The arbitrator shall have no authority to determine any other issues. The arbitrator shall refrain from issuing statements of opinion or conclusion not essential to determining the issue submitted. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding subject to statutory provisions”

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Here:

... and here:

Thanks. While it's already beensaid that we'll know in 15 days if Arbitration is chosen, I can't see why Ollie's counsel would pursue this avenue. The way it has been so widely referred to since the beginning, I hadn't gotten that it wasn't mandatory.

Do I have the ability to wait this out for a couple of weeks? I can't see much downside in doing so. Maybe the loss of a few laughs versus less distraction.

 

[Waquoit]

I give credit to DiMauro for writing this column. He could have easily piled on.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Ollie really hasn’t denied any of the alleged violations. His defense seems to be along the lines of “other guys did similar stuff and didn’t get fired.” Or a variation “Well it wasn’t that bad.”

My sense is that Ollie was way over his head and neither understood nor cared to learn about the NCAA rules. Sort of figured they were chicken crap and no biggie if you played fast and loose with them. In other words he approached it like he approached other aspects of his coaching.

I do not now, nor have I ever thought he was particularly bright. Good basketball IQ? Sure. But outside of that? I’ve seen no evidence of it. That he is in challenging financial circumstances despite earning plenty of money tends to confirm it.

 

[whaler11]

That he is in challenging financial circumstances despite earning plenty of money tends to confirm it.

I like that chief said something so many times it became true even with no actual evidence beyond Chief saying it.

Like when Jmick and SJ hint at all sorts of sorted personal dirt enough times that people assume UConn is holding back to protect Kevin and if he doesn’t cower they are going to bury him with it. LOL - they sure have waited a long time.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I like that chief said something so many times it became true even with no actual evidence beyond Chief saying it.

Ahem. A lot of people here have this tendency.

 

[pj]

if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties.

The only person who should have been fired following the APR penalties was Mark Emmert.

 

[JMick]

I like that chief said something so many times it became true even with no actual evidence beyond Chief saying it.

Like when Jmick and SJ hint at all sorts of sorted personal dirt enough times that people assume UConn is holding back to protect Kevin and if he doesn’t cower they are going to bury him with it. LOL - they sure have waited a long time.

That's a completely disingenuous summary and you know it.

 

[Mokum]

I do not now, nor have I ever thought he was particularly bright. Good basketball IQ? Sure. But outside of that? I’ve seen no evidence of it. That he is in challenging financial circumstances despite earning plenty of money tends to confirm it.

My sentiments as well. Ollie should be set for life. He is not. I guess
If you are a total materialistic buffoon, you can spend money very quickly. If I had a couple years
Worth of Ollies money, I would never worry about money again. But my desire for materialistic things is pretty low. I have everything I need. And I don't owe any money to anyone. George Carlin did a great routine once about the aquisition of material wealth. I love George Carlin , he was so thought provoking and funny as hell.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

That's a completely disingenuous summary and you know it.

Yes, but it got a Like.

 

[CL82]

My sentiments as well. Ollie should be set for life. He is not. I guess
If you are a total materialistic buffoon, you can spend money very quickly. If I had a couple years
Worth of Ollies money, I would never worry about money again. But my desire for materialistic things is pretty low. I have everything I need. And I don't owe any money to anyone. George Carlin did a great routine once about the aquisition of material wealth. I love George Carlin , he was so thought provoking and funny as hell.

Still funny.