DiMauro: Ollie did enough wrong to warrant his firing by UConn

[Deadrody]

Does the union have to bless any settlement? I remember hearing something about the union being able to force the full process if they want. Hate unions in their current incarnation.

No. They'd like to think they can, but they really have no actual power, other than standing in the eyes of the court. If Ollie agrees to a settlement, the union is not going to waste money fighting it any further, despite their grandstanding to the contrary.

 

[CL82]

The crux of the matter, however, is that UConn responded to violations under Calhoun's watch by adding the zero tolerance language to Ollie's contract.

Yeah, firing him for cause due to violations doesn't completely align with "past practices", but then, neither does his contract. Guaranteed that would be UConn's argument here. I don't doubt Ollie gets some part of his buyout, but I doubt it's even close to half of the buyout.

Actually the zero tolerance language is almost identical in Calhoun's last contract (2010, 2011 maybe.) Until I read it recently my thinking was the same as yours.

 

[Yardigan]

The crux of the matter, however, is that UConn responded to violations under Calhoun's watch by adding the zero tolerance language to Ollie's contract.

Yeah, firing him for cause due to violations doesn't completely align with "past practices", but then, neither does his contract. Guaranteed that would be UConn's argument here. I don't doubt Ollie gets some part of his buyout, but I doubt it's even close to half of the buyout.

Maybe there should be a pool thread, just to guess the amount paid...somewhere between jakk and $10M....

 

[krinklecut]

Yeah, but the NCAA isn't ruling on any of that until it's done which could take years.

And it's only going to raise the FBI's eyebrows if it involves the shoe companies. They couldn't care less about the players and their families. They just squeeze them to testify against the big boys.

Still though, the idea that the NCAA isn't going to review an allegation like this because "what review can they possibly do?" is a very small-thinking kind of idea when we're dealing with an organization like the NCAA.

 

[intlzncster]

Still though, the idea that the NCAA isn't going to review an allegation like this because "what review can they possibly do?" is a very small-thinking kind of idea when we're dealing with an organization like the NCAA.

Look, they can review all they want, but it's simply hearsay. And none of the potentially involved parties would admit to it, never mind talk about it.
And the Ncaa has no subpoena power. So what can they do? There's literally nothing there.

Now it could potentially come up in an associated fbi investigation I suppose, but that's probably unlikely.

 

[whaler11]

You people are unhinged.

Nobody is investigating an obvious lie from Glen Miller about some fantasy payment.

UConn isn’t even interested in pursing it. Now why might that be?

 

[whaler11]

Miller: You know, I heard later when we were discussing the terms of my being fired, you know, one of the mothers on the trip, she was lonely you know, and she told us, you know that Kevin Ollie was a serial murderer, you know.

NCAA: He was, is he still active, which serial killer was he?

Miller: I don’t know if he is still active, I recall being told by my wife that, I believe, you know that he is the Zodiac Killer


Boneyard: The FBI is not going to ignore a hot tip like that

 

[whaler11]

Of course another way of saying the same facts would be that Ollie:

• violated UConn and NCAA rules regarding recruit workouts (CL82 aside: This is one cringe worthy in my opinion. I wouldn't have included it, especially not first),
• facilitated booster contact with recruits in violation of NCAA rules,
• allowed UConn staff to work out players that were prohibited under NCAA rules, and
• paid for room and board for players to attend off season workouts in Atlanta which violates NCAA rules.
• While these violations were occurring, Ollie repeatedly represented to the university that he and the program were complying with NCAA.

Sounds worse that way doesn't it?

Yes if you are a naive fool those sound really scary.

How many fainting couches do you own?

How often do you get the vapors?

Do you ever take a step back and say - wow I used to fellate Coach Ollie constantly and now I’ve been reduced to trying to make a phone call seem like a big contractual violation?

Do you really not see how ridiculous it looks to go from fawning fanboy to clamoring that workouts in Atlanta are high crimes?

And that if they went to the Sweet Sixteen last year you’d be arguing the exact opposite.

You’d type de minimis so many times your ‘i’ key would wear out.

Do you think the poor sap at the NCAA who had to sit through Glen Miller’s lies realized he was a stooge for leverage in a contract battle? I imagine he realized it right around the time when he asked Miller if the call with Allen happened and Miller couldn’t even bring himself to lie about it.

He must have been so pumped up. We have a disgrunted former employee who is going to rat out a NC winning coach - this is going to be YUGE. Then he goes home with a phone call, someone shooting baskets in slacks and workout in Atlanta where... they even paid for their food!!!

I think I liked the Boneyard better when they were mad that the kids didn’t get fed. HUNGRY HUSKIES!!!!1!!

I hope with all my heart that Miller’s fever dream was about Boatright’s mother. I just love the idea of your faux outrage being directed at someone who was so celebrated just because it’s another reminder that nobody would ever willingly get in a foxhole with a bunch of rat loving turncoats.

 

[Pudge]

OMG ... I agree with whaler11

 

[UCDaveD]

Nobody is investigating an obvious lie from Glen Miller about some fantasy payment.

Good thing we have our very own Columbo on the case.

 

[whaler11]

Good thing we have our very own Columbo on the case.

The best part is: IF IT WERE TRUE AND THE NCAA INVESTIGATED IT THAT WOULD BE A BAD THING FOR UCONN.

In your ongoing despiration to nail Kevin Ollie to a cross - you’ve lost the plot so badly that you want Glen Miller’s ridiculous lies to be true.

But keep celebrating the rat, who totally worked alone Lee Harvey Oswald style

 

[UCDaveD]

The best part is: IF IT WERE TRUE AND THE NCAA INVESTIGATED IT THAT WOULD BE A BAD THING FOR UCONN.

In your ongoing despiration to nail Kevin Ollie to a cross - you’ve lost the plot so badly that you want Glen Miller’s ridiculous lies to be true.

But keep celebrating the rat, who totally worked alone Lee Harvey Oswald style

A reply ascribing me things I’ve never said and positions I’ve never taken. On-brand Whaler.

Keep searching for those clues, Nicholas Cage. You can’t be far from finding the National Treasure.

 

[CL82]

Yes if you are a naive fool those sound really scary.

How many fainting couches do you own?

How often do you get the vapors?

Do you ever take a step back and say - wow I used to fellate Coach Ollie constantly and now I’ve been reduced to trying to make a phone call seem like a big contractual violation?

Anyone else ever notice what a huge bag of nothing Whaler is these days?
I remember back when he used to have something say. Now, after he starts dipping into the internet tough guy juice, all he's got is name calling.

It's pretty sad.

 

[Husky1972]

Anyone else ever notice what a huge bag of nothing Whaler is these days?

Yes, I did. With several other "contributors", as well.

Being busy and coming in a little late to the "Olliegate" chronicles consisting of several related threads with multiple pages, I have found that liberal use of the "Ignore" button results in much more fluid and interesting reading, and also reduces the # of pages significantly.

 

[ctchamps]

Actually the zero tolerance language is almost identical in Calhoun's last contract (2010, 2011 maybe.) Until I read it recently my thinking was the same as yours.

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

 

[whaler11]

If you are still trying to convince yourself it’s a wild conspiracy theory...

When did the news break? 90 minutes after their best game of the second half of the season.

Didn’t come from UConn according to Jacobs...

So now you have to additionally believe that Miller acting alone leaked to Jacobs to make the ‘investigation’ public. Glen Miller acting alone not only went full rat he leaked the news to Jacobs and just kept showing up at St Joe’s under the employ of Jim Calhoun.

Then he timed the leak as perfectly as possible for the AD - this is just another magnificient coincidence for Benedict/Herbst.

LOL.

 

[whaler11]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

Although Benedict being shot to the sun would make me very pleased, cut and run Suzie Lax can protect him because she resigned.

 

[ctchamps]

Although Benedict being shot to the sun would make me very pleased, cut and run Suzie Lax can protect him because she resigned.

Just the opposite. She will want to beg out of this as quickly as possible and head to her teaching gig. DB will not get a life raft from her. Be satisfied with a 2/3 victory. DB going down and the posters you consider hypocrites in this forum having to squirm over this.

 

[CL82]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

Your first impression was the correct take.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

"Single Bully Theory" sounds about right, but I'm not sure who it applies to, or whether it's being shot down or propped up.
Any takers?

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

As a contrasting speculative view, I always found the timing of Calhoun's retirement surprising given his hyper-competitive nature and how few additional wins he would have needed to surpass Dean Smith, Adolph Rupp, and even Bobby Knight. Before the 2011-12 season, all of them must have been clearly in his sights.

Jim Calhoun may not have gotten the easy pass that's widely implied, nor is it unreasonable to imagine that the need for compliance moving forward would have been stressed to his hand-picked successor.

To repeat, it's a speculative view, one that I offer as no less valid than others I am reading. My lack of confidence in its 'truth' is more a measure of humility and a desire for healthy settlement than weakness of case or character.

 

[UConnNick]

Until I read this I thought KO should have taken any offer, if an offer was made, no matter how much less it was from his demand.

However if JC’s contract is similar to KO’s it appears to me the university is playing with fire in its approach to KO because JC was not fired following the apr penalties. Seems to me KO can claim “prejudicial “ treatment and win not only the $10 million but seek damages over and above this amount. I’m basing this on the posters in this forum who claim KO will not get a div I coaching gig because he did not leave quietly. KO’s lawyers will have a field day over this.

At least @whaler11 will get some satisfaction over this when DB gets fired because the boosters putting the squeeze on DB to pay zero (my conjecture) will not take the blame for their part in all of this.

The fact that the university chose not to strictly enforce any of Calhoun's contract terms should not result in Ollie being successful in arguing that waives any rights they have to enforce similar contract terms forever after. The contract establishes an employment at will relationship between the parties. Either party can terminate the contract subject to the provisions of the agreement. It would be a ludicrous result if an arbitrator or court ruled UConn will never again be allowed to enforce contract terms the same as or similar to Calhoun's because they chose not to enforce them in his case. If that's their ruling, the school might just as well never enter into employment contracts with coaches that contain those provisions, because they'll never be legally allowed to enforce those terms. If that's the best argument Ollie's lawyers can come up with, they better advise him to settle.

Frankly, it's likely more of a smokescreen than anything. His lawyers figure the threat of exposing a bunch of Calhoun era garbage will induce the school to make a more favorable settlement offer. It is sad to see the relationship between Ollie and Calhoun has degenerated to this extreme.

 

[ctchamps]

The fact that the university chose not to strictly enforce any of Calhoun's contract terms should not result in Ollie being successful in arguing that waives any rights they have to enforce similar contract terms forever after. The contract establishes an employment at will relationship between the parties. Either party can terminate the contract subject to the provisions of the agreement. It would be a ludicrous result if an arbitrator or court ruled UConn will never again be allowed to enforce contract terms the same as or similar to Calhoun's because they chose not to enforce them in his case. If that's their ruling, the school might just as well never enter into employment contracts with coaches that contain those provisions, because they'll never be legally allowed to enforce those terms. If that's the best argument Ollie's lawyers can come up with, they better advise him to settle.

Frankly, it's likely more of a smokescreen than anything. His lawyers figure the threat of exposing a bunch of Calhoun era garbage will induce the school to make a more favorable settlement offer. It is sad to see the relationship between Ollie and Calhoun has degenerated to this extreme.

Thanks for the explanation. I’m not sure a tactic by KO’s legal team tells us anything about the relationship of KO to JC. They would be negligent to not try to play this card.

As far as “at will” wasn’t there some disagreement among the legal members in this forum about the merits of that with KO’s contract?

 

[UConnDad]

I'm still unclear. Does the arbitrator only rule on the CBA? And KO's contract would be fought in court. Or do both come into play in both jurisdictions?

 

[8893]

As far as “at will” wasn’t there some disagreement among the legal members in this forum about the merits of that with KO’s contract?

It’s not “at will;” he could only be fired for just cause. That’s the whole point.

Of course they could dismiss him without cause at any time and pay him for the remainder of the contract term. Again, that’s not what “at will” means.