Did you people watch Calhoun UConn teams?

[Banta55]

I'm resigned to the fact KO will start the nexr year as coach. I look forward to some guys on this team moving on, mainly Jalen and Terry. They don't seem to compliment each other at all. We need some shooters, desperately. If you want to get guys like Diallo to come here, you better learn to run a more appealing offense or hire someone to help you with that. Recruits see us play and I doubt their salivating to play in the system they see.

 

[Banta55]

He will absolutely not be back.

 

[Stinger92860]

I seriously doubt any of you did.

Either that or you have severe selective memory.

In no way is what I write a ringing endorsement of Kevin Ollie. He owns most of this mess. For many reasons I'll get into. But it isn't for on the floor style of play or "ugly offense" that I see written here ad nauseam .

If I see one more post about " lack of offensive sets" or how " teams run so much more prettier offenses than UConn " I want to puke.

Because that was Calhouns case too. We never ran pretty offense. Ever. Never.

How did Calhoun become the greatest coach of all time with such a predictable offense?

He had the uncanny knack of making his teams tougher than everyone else. Our good teams were always tougher. When our offense wasn't pretty we had horses crashing glass and cleaning up messes. You saw witchita do that yesterday in 2nd half. Cleaning glass off misses erases a lot of bad looking offense.

On defense we were brutal to teams. alternately having teams that could really get into you on the perimeter or having devastating rim protectors where no team would ever get anything easy . How many times over the years would you see teams actually get near the rim realize there was an oak , thabeet, even Brimah and not even take a shot and bring the ball back out because of fear?

We made games ugly. They were rockfights . There was never anything easy.
Through defensive will, keying offense off of defense, some offensive rebounding toughness and players who consistently improved it was a formula for great success. Unparalleled.

But does anyone ever wonder why the one thing lacking on JCs awesome coaching resume is a consistent string of NCAA tourney appearances? There were quite a few years JC teams stayed home while teams at our elite level would go every year.

Because JC's coaching style demanded all in defensive buy in plus a dynamic player or two who found consistency. When we weren't the mentally and physically toughest teams in the country we suffered even on very talented teams ( see 2012, 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993)
It is much harder to build a team with a collective constant will to win. Playing in such a demanding system. JC couldn't always do it, but when he did we were very hard to beat.

What I'm getting at is that KO is a Calhoun disciple . He is trying to keep JC's style of UConn basketball.

I see it.

Isn't it funny that in the closer losses against teams way more talented than us this year ( mich state, zona, WSU) that I see people on here saying "oh we suck, those teams were just having " off nights" . No it wasn't off nights. It's not coincidence . We made the games ugly. We competed hard and paid attention to detail on the defensive end in ways that we don't against lesser teams.
It looked like traditional UConn winning basketball for big stretches of all those games. The problems were we couldn't sustain it. We don't have enough horses. It takes great effort to sustain that style of play and notice that under 10 minutes left in each of those games we are simply gassed. KO has had to take timeouts under 10 to just rest players.

Now problem number 1 with that, that I will hang on KO (but not entirely) is why can the players only get up and play with the effort required to make our system successful against top 10 teams? I mean I get that is human nature to get juiced for the big moments. But for the system to work we have to buy in as a team culture every minute of every game . We don't.

Also, and the buck stops with KO as head coach, but again not entirely:
We are stupid. I mean this is a situationally unaware just mind boggling stupid collection of players as far as making unforced mistakes . Whether it is Vital chucking ridiculous threes , multiple players travelling, and larrier and Adams being so loose with the ball, we don't ever go more than 2 consecutive trips without absolutely shooting ourselves in the foot. KO can't be on the floor. And it's not like he can bench guys for stupid, because on the bench he has people who just ratchet up the stupid if out on the floor.

And then here is where it gets so fun.
If we manage to avoid stupid on the offensive end and get a good shot, we can't hit it. The shooting is just abysmal. We were never going to be that great a shooting team, but we shouldn't be this bad.

I think people think our low assist numbers are due to poor offense. Not really we have never run a high assist number type of offense. Our assists numbers are so terrible because we can't make a frickin shot. Please someone tell me, who do you want Jalen or Terry throwing the ball to for a score?
Polley?
Carlton?
DO?
ANDERSON?
Cobb?
Whaley?
Vital who is a black hole inconsistent 3 chucker?

None of them have any offensive game. I don't care if you bring in Pete Carril to run the Princeton offense none of those guys at this point have any inkling on how to play within themselves and put a ball in the hoop.

It's the Jalen and Terry show sink or swim. Unfortunately Jalen hasn't taken the next step that he should've for a kid with his tools junior year. He desperately needs to start draining that elbow jumper he can get any time he wants. It would open up the lane for drives, and dishing. And Terry looks like he's getting it and can be unstoppable except for the fact that he can't seem to ever get going in 1st half, and he has bad judgement putting the ball on the floor.

But to me bad offense is anyone but those 2 guys taking shots. Even with their flaws, and their flaws are hurting us right now.

We just don't have answers, our margin of error is so thin. We get something offensively we miss a shot. Good teams like the 3 I mentioned above if we have a single defensive breakdown after 5 excellent defensive trips by us , sink a three. Or get a board.

Now if you want to blame Ollie for having the players he has or players not getting better, or mind scratching lineups and substitution patterns, I get all that and fully agree.

But I don't blame him for trying to continue Jim Calhouns legacy and style and brand of UConn basketball. It brought us four titles.
And for good stretches against the best 3 teams we played this year, it proves to me that it can still work. We just don't have enough to make it work for 40 minutes. And we don't have the buy in to play that way consistently it is such a mentally fragile team.

Now that can entirely be KOs fault for not keeping his players engaged day in and day out, or some can hang on some players too. Don't care doesn't matter , end result the same and buck stops with coach.

But remember one thing. UConn basketball "style" as a brand is gone forever if KO can't find a way to make it work and we need to replace him.

And that makes me sad.

I don't know if he can do it or not off the floor. Because that's where our problems lie.

Who is this Calhoun you write about?

 

[tentoes4rings]

I seriously doubt any of you did.

Either that or you have severe selective memory.

In no way is what I write a ringing endorsement of Kevin Ollie. He owns most of this mess. For many reasons I'll get into. But it isn't for on the floor style of play or "ugly offense" that I see written here ad nauseam .

If I see one more post about " lack of offensive sets" or how " teams run so much more prettier offenses than UConn " I want to puke.

Because that was Calhouns case too. We never ran pretty offense. Ever. Never.

How did Calhoun become the greatest coach of all time with such a predictable offense?

He had the uncanny knack of making his teams tougher than everyone else. Our good teams were always tougher. When our offense wasn't pretty we had horses crashing glass and cleaning up messes. You saw witchita do that yesterday in 2nd half. Cleaning glass off misses erases a lot of bad looking offense.

On defense we were brutal to teams. alternately having teams that could really get into you on the perimeter or having devastating rim protectors where no team would ever get anything easy . How many times over the years would you see teams actually get near the rim realize there was an oak , thabeet, even Brimah and not even take a shot and bring the ball back out because of fear?

We made games ugly. They were rockfights . There was never anything easy.
Through defensive will, keying offense off of defense, some offensive rebounding toughness and players who consistently improved it was a formula for great success. Unparalleled.

But does anyone ever wonder why the one thing lacking on JCs awesome coaching resume is a consistent string of NCAA tourney appearances? There were quite a few years JC teams stayed home while teams at our elite level would go every year.

Because JC's coaching style demanded all in defensive buy in plus a dynamic player or two who found consistency. When we weren't the mentally and physically toughest teams in the country we suffered even on very talented teams ( see 2012, 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993)
It is much harder to build a team with a collective constant will to win. Playing in such a demanding system. JC couldn't always do it, but when he did we were very hard to beat.

What I'm getting at is that KO is a Calhoun disciple . He is trying to keep JC's style of UConn basketball.

I see it.

Isn't it funny that in the closer losses against teams way more talented than us this year ( mich state, zona, WSU) that I see people on here saying "oh we suck, those teams were just having " off nights" . No it wasn't off nights. It's not coincidence . We made the games ugly. We competed hard and paid attention to detail on the defensive end in ways that we don't against lesser teams.
It looked like traditional UConn winning basketball for big stretches of all those games. The problems were we couldn't sustain it. We don't have enough horses. It takes great effort to sustain that style of play and notice that under 10 minutes left in each of those games we are simply gassed. KO has had to take timeouts under 10 to just rest players.

Now problem number 1 with that, that I will hang on KO (but not entirely) is why can the players only get up and play with the effort required to make our system successful against top 10 teams? I mean I get that is human nature to get juiced for the big moments. But for the system to work we have to buy in as a team culture every minute of every game . We don't.

Also, and the buck stops with KO as head coach, but again not entirely:
We are stupid. I mean this is a situationally unaware just mind boggling stupid collection of players as far as making unforced mistakes . Whether it is Vital chucking ridiculous threes , multiple players travelling, and larrier and Adams being so loose with the ball, we don't ever go more than 2 consecutive trips without absolutely shooting ourselves in the foot. KO can't be on the floor. And it's not like he can bench guys for stupid, because on the bench he has people who just ratchet up the stupid if out on the floor.

And then here is where it gets so fun.
If we manage to avoid stupid on the offensive end and get a good shot, we can't hit it. The shooting is just abysmal. We were never going to be that great a shooting team, but we shouldn't be this bad.

I think people think our low assist numbers are due to poor offense. Not really we have never run a high assist number type of offense. Our assists numbers are so terrible because we can't make a frickin shot. Please someone tell me, who do you want Jalen or Terry throwing the ball to for a score?
Polley?
Carlton?
DO?
ANDERSON?
Cobb?
Whaley?
Vital who is a black hole inconsistent 3 chucker?

None of them have any offensive game. I don't care if you bring in Pete Carril to run the Princeton offense none of those guys at this point have any inkling on how to play within themselves and put a ball in the hoop.

It's the Jalen and Terry show sink or swim. Unfortunately Jalen hasn't taken the next step that he should've for a kid with his tools junior year. He desperately needs to start draining that elbow jumper he can get any time he wants. It would open up the lane for drives, and dishing. And Terry looks like he's getting it and can be unstoppable except for the fact that he can't seem to ever get going in 1st half, and he has bad judgement putting the ball on the floor.

But to me bad offense is anyone but those 2 guys taking shots. Even with their flaws, and their flaws are hurting us right now.

We just don't have answers, our margin of error is so thin. We get something offensively we miss a shot. Good teams like the 3 I mentioned above if we have a single defensive breakdown after 5 excellent defensive trips by us , sink a three. Or get a board.

Now if you want to blame Ollie for having the players he has or players not getting better, or mind scratching lineups and substitution patterns, I get all that and fully agree.

But I don't blame him for trying to continue Jim Calhouns legacy and style and brand of UConn basketball. It brought us four titles.
And for good stretches against the best 3 teams we played this year, it proves to me that it can still work. We just don't have enough to make it work for 40 minutes. And we don't have the buy in to play that way consistently it is such a mentally fragile team.

Now that can entirely be KOs fault for not keeping his players engaged day in and day out, or some can hang on some players too. Don't care doesn't matter , end result the same and buck stops with coach.

But remember one thing. UConn basketball "style" as a brand is gone forever if KO can't find a way to make it work and we need to replace him.

And that makes me sad.

I don't know if he can do it or not off the floor. Because that's where our problems lie.

August, while I agree JC's offenses weren't always pretty, I disagree that they were as rudimentary as what KO runs. JC was a master at finding something to exploit and making the other team bleed once he found it. I remember him finding a great mismatch with Lamb in the 2011 Kentucky game and getting a few huge baskets from it. He also called great plays out of timeouts.

What stands out more though was how beautifully we ran the fast break, especially during the 90s. With Sheffer, Ricky, Donyell, Donny, Rip etc it was a work of art how well we rebounded, threw great outlet passes, spaced the floor and ran teams into the ground the last 10 minutes of the game.

JC teams didn't always need to run a great half court offense because we routinely had a big advantage in free throw attempts, something we now are typically at a big disadvantage from. We run a very poor fast break these days, don't get to the line much, turn the ball over too much, which makes the poor half court planning and execution really stand out.

 

[Stinger92860]

Try reading what he wrote. Seriously.

I'm reading it one chapter at a time, with a break for New Year's Eve.

 

[superjohn]

August, while I agree JC's offenses weren't always pretty, I disagree that they were as rudimentary as what KO runs. JC was a master at finding something to exploit and making the other team bleed once he found it. I remember him finding a great mismatch with Lamb in the 2011 Kentucky game and getting a few huge baskets from it. He also called great plays out of timeouts.

What stands out more though was how beautifully we ran the fast break, especially during the 90s. With Sheffer, Ricky, Donyell, Donny, Rip etc it was a work of art how well we rebounded, threw great outlet passes, spaced the floor and ran teams into the ground the last 10 minutes of the game.

JC teams didn't always need to run a great half court offense because we routinely had a big advantage in free throw attempts, something we now are typically at a big disadvantage from. We run a very poor fast break these days, don't get to the line much, turn the ball over too much, which makes the poor half court planning and execution really stand out.

We used to get buckets all the time without the ball ever touching the floor in the 90's, Auggie clearly just discovered Uconn basketball in 2004 or so.

 

[tentoes4rings]

We used to get buckets all the time without the ball ever touching the floor in the 90's, Auggie clearly just discovered Uconn basketball in 2004 or so.

Remember the show they used to have on with JC and Bob Picozzi? There was a drill they ran, where the ball was sent from the rebounder like Doron or Jake to a guard, off to the cutter without the ball touching the floor and it all seemed to take about 3 seconds? KO played in that system and has wiry athletes. Why doesn't he run super successful things his teams ran as an undergrad?

 

[August_West]

We used to get buckets all the time without the ball ever touching the floor in the 90's, Auggie clearly just discovered Uconn basketball in 2004 or so.

You dope. Those 94-96 teams were a fastbreak thing of beauty. Because of scheffer mostly. But our 1/2 court sets were exactly the same as they've always been and not very effective at all and quite frankly ugly. Which is why we never won crap then .

Go watch the Miss St sweet 16 game and tell me how pretty we looked.

 

[August_West]

Remember the show they used to have on with JC and Bob Picozzi? There was a drill they ran, where the ball was sent from the rebounder like Doron or Jake to a guard, off to the cutter without the ball touching the floor and it all seemed to take about 3 seconds? KO played in that system and has wiry athletes. Why doesn't he run super successful things his teams ran as an undergrad?

Because we have no rebounders or outlet passers. Simple.

When Calhoun didn't have scheffer he didn't play that way either.

 

[SubbaBub]

Calhoun had sets, not a lot of them but he did have them. In the NC against Butler he took his high ball screen set and ran it from the sideline when it became clear that it wasn't working from the top of the key.

He ran the high post and low block triangle until Boeheim cried uncle even Josh Boone could run it.

Forget the pick and roll, pick and pop, the double screen and circle sets that beat Duke in 99 and everyone in the Big East from 1990 until 2009.

Not to mention the list of inbound plays and defensive sets.

KO runs straight pick and roll, NBA isolation without the talent to make it work. On D, he can't get his guys to play either man or zone consistently.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Because we have no rebounders or outlet passers. Simple.

When Calhoun didn't have scheffer he didn't play that way either.

Why doesn't he have rebounders or outlet passers?

 

[Palatine]

I seriously doubt any of you did.

Either that or you have severe selective memory.

In no way is what I write a ringing endorsement of Kevin Ollie. He owns most of this mess. For many reasons I'll get into. But it isn't for on the floor style of play or "ugly offense" that I see written here ad nauseam .

If I see one more post about " lack of offensive sets" or how " teams run so much more prettier offenses than UConn " I want to puke.

Because that was Calhouns case too. We never ran pretty offense. Ever. Never.

How did Calhoun become the greatest coach of all time with such a predictable offense?

He had the uncanny knack of making his teams tougher than everyone else. Our good teams were always tougher. When our offense wasn't pretty we had horses crashing glass and cleaning up messes. You saw witchita do that yesterday in 2nd half. Cleaning glass off misses erases a lot of bad looking offense.

On defense we were brutal to teams. alternately having teams that could really get into you on the perimeter or having devastating rim protectors where no team would ever get anything easy . How many times over the years would you see teams actually get near the rim realize there was an oak , thabeet, even Brimah and not even take a shot and bring the ball back out because of fear?

We made games ugly. They were rockfights . There was never anything easy.
Through defensive will, keying offense off of defense, some offensive rebounding toughness and players who consistently improved it was a formula for great success. Unparalleled.

But does anyone ever wonder why the one thing lacking on JCs awesome coaching resume is a consistent string of NCAA tourney appearances? There were quite a few years JC teams stayed home while teams at our elite level would go every year.

Because JC's coaching style demanded all in defensive buy in plus a dynamic player or two who found consistency. When we weren't the mentally and physically toughest teams in the country we suffered even on very talented teams ( see 2012, 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993)
It is much harder to build a team with a collective constant will to win. Playing in such a demanding system. JC couldn't always do it, but when he did we were very hard to beat.

What I'm getting at is that KO is a Calhoun disciple . He is trying to keep JC's style of UConn basketball.

I see it.

Isn't it funny that in the closer losses against teams way more talented than us this year ( mich state, zona, WSU) that I see people on here saying "oh we suck, those teams were just having " off nights" . No it wasn't off nights. It's not coincidence . We made the games ugly. We competed hard and paid attention to detail on the defensive end in ways that we don't against lesser teams.
It looked like traditional UConn winning basketball for big stretches of all those games. The problems were we couldn't sustain it. We don't have enough horses. It takes great effort to sustain that style of play and notice that under 10 minutes left in each of those games we are simply gassed. KO has had to take timeouts under 10 to just rest players.

Now problem number 1 with that, that I will hang on KO (but not entirely) is why can the players only get up and play with the effort required to make our system successful against top 10 teams? I mean I get that is human nature to get juiced for the big moments. But for the system to work we have to buy in as a team culture every minute of every game . We don't.

Also, and the buck stops with KO as head coach, but again not entirely:
We are stupid. I mean this is a situationally unaware just mind boggling stupid collection of players as far as making unforced mistakes . Whether it is Vital chucking ridiculous threes , multiple players travelling, and larrier and Adams being so loose with the ball, we don't ever go more than 2 consecutive trips without absolutely shooting ourselves in the foot. KO can't be on the floor. And it's not like he can bench guys for stupid, because on the bench he has people who just ratchet up the stupid if out on the floor.

And then here is where it gets so fun.
If we manage to avoid stupid on the offensive end and get a good shot, we can't hit it. The shooting is just abysmal. We were never going to be that great a shooting team, but we shouldn't be this bad.

I think people think our low assist numbers are due to poor offense. Not really we have never run a high assist number type of offense. Our assists numbers are so terrible because we can't make a frickin shot. Please someone tell me, who do you want Jalen or Terry throwing the ball to for a score?
Polley?
Carlton?
DO?
ANDERSON?
Cobb?
Whaley?
Vital who is a black hole inconsistent 3 chucker?

None of them have any offensive game. I don't care if you bring in Pete Carril to run the Princeton offense none of those guys at this point have any inkling on how to play within themselves and put a ball in the hoop.

It's the Jalen and Terry show sink or swim. Unfortunately Jalen hasn't taken the next step that he should've for a kid with his tools junior year. He desperately needs to start draining that elbow jumper he can get any time he wants. It would open up the lane for drives, and dishing. And Terry looks like he's getting it and can be unstoppable except for the fact that he can't seem to ever get going in 1st half, and he has bad judgement putting the ball on the floor.

But to me bad offense is anyone but those 2 guys taking shots. Even with their flaws, and their flaws are hurting us right now.

We just don't have answers, our margin of error is so thin. We get something offensively we miss a shot. Good teams like the 3 I mentioned above if we have a single defensive breakdown after 5 excellent defensive trips by us , sink a three. Or get a board.

Now if you want to blame Ollie for having the players he has or players not getting better, or mind scratching lineups and substitution patterns, I get all that and fully agree.

But I don't blame him for trying to continue Jim Calhouns legacy and style and brand of UConn basketball. It brought us four titles.
And for good stretches against the best 3 teams we played this year, it proves to me that it can still work. We just don't have enough to make it work for 40 minutes. And we don't have the buy in to play that way consistently it is such a mentally fragile team.

Now that can entirely be KOs fault for not keeping his players engaged day in and day out, or some can hang on some players too. Don't care doesn't matter , end result the same and buck stops with coach.

But remember one thing. UConn basketball "style" as a brand is gone forever if KO can't find a way to make it work and we need to replace him.

And that makes me sad.

I don't know if he can do it or not off the floor. Because that's where our problems lie.

I watched all of Calhoun's, Perno's and Rowe's teams.

With JC, we scored on inbounds plays very regularly.

Many of his teams were brick layers. But many could shoot the lights out. The offenses varied but on fast breaks the kids always knew where their lanes were.

The defenses were always pretty darn good.

He was tough on his teams. He was very, very tough on the refs.

 

[superjohn]

You dope. Those 94-96 teams were a fastbreak thing of beauty. Because of scheffer mostly. But our 1/2 court sets were exactly the same as they've always been and not very effective at all and quite frankly ugly. Which is why we never won crap then .

Go watch the Miss St sweet 16 game and tell me how pretty we looked.

284 wins 85 losses, 6x regular season Big East champs, 4x Big East tournament champs, 7 sweet 16's, 4 elite 8's, and a National Championship.

You're right UConn basketball didn't run any offense and didn't win anything in the 90's.

 

[tentoes4rings]

284 wins 85 losses, 6x regular season Big East champs, 4x Big East tournament champs, 7 sweet 16's, 4 elite 8's, and a National Championship.

You're right UConn basketball didn't run any offense and didn't win anything in the 90's.

What about the double screens he ran shooters like Rip and Ray off? Those guys never stopped running, they didn't sit on the perimeter for 30 seconds without moving.

 

[noeynox]

You dope. Those 94-96 teams were a fastbreak thing of beauty. Because of scheffer mostly. But our 1/2 court sets were exactly the same as they've always been and not very effective at all and quite frankly ugly. Which is why we never won crap then .

Go watch the Miss St sweet 16 game and tell me how pretty we looked.

We'd run screen sets for shooters and they'd nail them. Ollie hasn't recruited any

 

[CL82]

Good post ADub, but I'm going to disagree a little with the core premise. You or I could try to coach a team primarily using iso offensive sets but that does mean that our teams are playing "UConn basketball."

What Jim Calhoun did exceptionally well was understand his players strengths and weaknesses and then he'd put them in a position to succeed. It wasn't a one size fits all offense. When he didn't have the talent Calhoun pressed. When he had guys who were lower percentage shooters, he had them focus on in your face tough defense so that opponents shooting percentage went down as well. He not only put his players in a position to succeed, he took away what the other teams needed to do to win. Sometimes it was shutting down their leading scorer but sometimes it was as simple as limiting them to one shot. During the game his adjustments were often brilliant. When there was nothing else, that fiery, salty SOB just willed his teams to win and his teams took that determination out onto the court with him.

I'll also say a lot of current woes are based fundamentals or lack there of. How many times have you seen guys take shots when they aren't squaring. Is there any wonder their shooting percentages are low? How about boxing out? How many guys seal their man before looking for a rebound? Is it surprising then that we are getting killed on the offensive glass? If a whole team lacks fundamentals, who do you lay the blame on their high school coaches?

So yeah your point is valid that Ollie looks to be trying run the same offense that Calhoun used at the end of his career is accurate. He's just not doing it particularly well. Some of that is on the players, but the bulk of it falls squarely on KO and his staff.

 

[Walker11]

When you on to KO discuss how he wants to play on offense it doesn't sound a ton like JC.

 

[Hoophound]

JC figured things out. I’ll never forget how he shocked Duke (and UConn fans) in 93’ or 94’ in an early season game by using back door cuts and a beautiful motion offense to catch them completely off guard. We looked like Princeton for a day. JC looked for weaknesses and attacked them. He was willing to adapt when he felt it made sense.

 

[jibsey]

Rock fights yes, but how many of Calhoun’s teams give up 12 3’s? The other thing is that early Calhound teams scratched and clawed to be competitive, then they got players, good and great players. don’t see that here.

 

[Austin316]

Yeah I watched JCs teams... there’s no comparison to KO &co.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I also don't get the narrative that our success has been entirely from a lunch-pail, blue-collar, ugly style of basketball. We weren't Pitt.

What made JC's teams great was that he got that buy-in, attitude, and toughness from players who were recruited and coached to put the ball in the basket. It wasn't an either/or thing where we had to have ugly offense in order to have toughness on both ends. We used to routinely score in the 80's or even 90's. Now we're lucky to break 60.

 

[superjohn]

I also don't get the narrative that our success has been entirely from a lunch-pail, blue-collar, ugly style of basketball. We weren't Pitt.

What made JC's teams great was that he got that buy-in, attitude, and toughness from players who were recruited and coached to put the ball in the basket. It wasn't an either/or thing where we had to have ugly offense in order to have toughness on both ends. We used to routinely score in the 80's or even 90's. Now we're lucky to break 60.

Calhoun won all sorts of different ways with all different styles of play.

 

[Athlete94]

I seriously doubt any of you did.

Either that or you have severe selective memory.

In no way is what I write a ringing endorsement of Kevin Ollie. He owns most of this mess. For many reasons I'll get into. But it isn't for on the floor style of play or "ugly offense" that I see written here ad nauseam .

If I see one more post about " lack of offensive sets" or how " teams run so much more prettier offenses than UConn " I want to puke.

Because that was Calhouns case too. We never ran pretty offense. Ever. Never.

How did Calhoun become the greatest coach of all time with such a predictable offense?

He had the uncanny knack of making his teams tougher than everyone else. Our good teams were always tougher. When our offense wasn't pretty we had horses crashing glass and cleaning up messes. You saw witchita do that yesterday in 2nd half. Cleaning glass off misses erases a lot of bad looking offense.

On defense we were brutal to teams. alternately having teams that could really get into you on the perimeter or having devastating rim protectors where no team would ever get anything easy . How many times over the years would you see teams actually get near the rim realize there was an oak , thabeet, even Brimah and not even take a shot and bring the ball back out because of fear?

We made games ugly. They were rockfights . There was never anything easy.
Through defensive will, keying offense off of defense, some offensive rebounding toughness and players who consistently improved it was a formula for great success. Unparalleled.

But does anyone ever wonder why the one thing lacking on JCs awesome coaching resume is a consistent string of NCAA tourney appearances? There were quite a few years JC teams stayed home while teams at our elite level would go every year.

Because JC's coaching style demanded all in defensive buy in plus a dynamic player or two who found consistency. When we weren't the mentally and physically toughest teams in the country we suffered even on very talented teams ( see 2012, 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993)
It is much harder to build a team with a collective constant will to win. Playing in such a demanding system. JC couldn't always do it, but when he did we were very hard to beat.

What I'm getting at is that KO is a Calhoun disciple . He is trying to keep JC's style of UConn basketball.

I see it.

Isn't it funny that in the closer losses against teams way more talented than us this year ( mich state, zona, WSU) that I see people on here saying "oh we suck, those teams were just having " off nights" . No it wasn't off nights. It's not coincidence . We made the games ugly. We competed hard and paid attention to detail on the defensive end in ways that we don't against lesser teams.
It looked like traditional UConn winning basketball for big stretches of all those games. The problems were we couldn't sustain it. We don't have enough horses. It takes great effort to sustain that style of play and notice that under 10 minutes left in each of those games we are simply gassed. KO has had to take timeouts under 10 to just rest players.

Now problem number 1 with that, that I will hang on KO (but not entirely) is why can the players only get up and play with the effort required to make our system successful against top 10 teams? I mean I get that is human nature to get juiced for the big moments. But for the system to work we have to buy in as a team culture every minute of every game . We don't.

Also, and the buck stops with KO as head coach, but again not entirely:
We are stupid. I mean this is a situationally unaware just mind boggling stupid collection of players as far as making unforced mistakes . Whether it is Vital chucking ridiculous threes , multiple players travelling, and larrier and Adams being so loose with the ball, we don't ever go more than 2 consecutive trips without absolutely shooting ourselves in the foot. KO can't be on the floor. And it's not like he can bench guys for stupid, because on the bench he has people who just ratchet up the stupid if out on the floor.

And then here is where it gets so fun.
If we manage to avoid stupid on the offensive end and get a good shot, we can't hit it. The shooting is just abysmal. We were never going to be that great a shooting team, but we shouldn't be this bad.

I think people think our low assist numbers are due to poor offense. Not really we have never run a high assist number type of offense. Our assists numbers are so terrible because we can't make a frickin shot. Please someone tell me, who do you want Jalen or Terry throwing the ball to for a score?
Polley?
Carlton?
DO?
ANDERSON?
Cobb?
Whaley?
Vital who is a black hole inconsistent 3 chucker?

None of them have any offensive game. I don't care if you bring in Pete Carril to run the Princeton offense none of those guys at this point have any inkling on how to play within themselves and put a ball in the hoop.

It's the Jalen and Terry show sink or swim. Unfortunately Jalen hasn't taken the next step that he should've for a kid with his tools junior year. He desperately needs to start draining that elbow jumper he can get any time he wants. It would open up the lane for drives, and dishing. And Terry looks like he's getting it and can be unstoppable except for the fact that he can't seem to ever get going in 1st half, and he has bad judgement putting the ball on the floor.

But to me bad offense is anyone but those 2 guys taking shots. Even with their flaws, and their flaws are hurting us right now.

We just don't have answers, our margin of error is so thin. We get something offensively we miss a shot. Good teams like the 3 I mentioned above if we have a single defensive breakdown after 5 excellent defensive trips by us , sink a three. Or get a board.

Now if you want to blame Ollie for having the players he has or players not getting better, or mind scratching lineups and substitution patterns, I get all that and fully agree.

But I don't blame him for trying to continue Jim Calhouns legacy and style and brand of UConn basketball. It brought us four titles.
And for good stretches against the best 3 teams we played this year, it proves to me that it can still work. We just don't have enough to make it work for 40 minutes. And we don't have the buy in to play that way consistently it is such a mentally fragile team.

Now that can entirely be KOs fault for not keeping his players engaged day in and day out, or some can hang on some players too. Don't care doesn't matter , end result the same and buck stops with coach.

But remember one thing. UConn basketball "style" as a brand is gone forever if KO can't find a way to make it work and we need to replace him.

And that makes me sad.

I don't know if he can do it or not off the floor. Because that's where our problems lie.

Man, I stopped reading after line 2.. you have way too much time to write a novel like that. Oh and yes, please stop with the Ollie to jc comparison.

 

[Athlete94]

I'm not comparing them. I'm saying Kevin Ollie is using Calhous system .

Ollie is using his own system, hence the 3 to 4 guard. Sets. Calhoun used his wings and bigs way more.. this is not Calhoun’s mess or system

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Go watch the Miss St sweet 16 game and tell me how pretty we looked.

A very ugly game, but Ricky was injured.

Your post, in the main, was good enough to gain some agreement, some disagreement, and a good number of thoughtful & intelligent posts from people I ignore. All of that is a good thing.

That said, in the latter JC years, I would often txt, "First team to [XX] wins." There were many games won by simply shutting down the other team at the end - not so much outscoring the other team as making certain they scored fewer points. Best example is probably Duke in the 2004 semi-final.

Yesterday, at 58-55, I said, "First team to 60 wins," basically thinking that the only path to a victory would finish up at, say, 64-61, with no missed free throws. Pure nostalgic fantasy. Wichita immediately hit a basket, sealing their vicyory, and then they went on forb 12 more points, pretty much like Arizona closed out. Too few horses.

 

[UCweCONN]

A very ugly game, but Ricky was injured.

Your post, in the main, was good enough to gain some agreement, some disagreement, and a good number of thoughtful & intelligent posts from people I ignore. All of that is a good thing.

That said, in the latter JC years, I would often txt, "First team to [XX] wins." There were many games won by simply shutting down the other team at the end - not so much outscoring the other team as making certain they scored fewer points. Best example is probably Duke in the 2004 semi-final.

Yesterday, at 58-55, I said, "First team to 60 wins," basically thinking that the only path to a victory would finish up at, say, 64-61, with no missed free throws. Pure nostalgic fantasy. Wichita immediately hit a basket, sealing their vicyory, and then they went on forb 12 more points, pretty much like Arizona closed out. Too few horses.

They have horses, we have giraffes

 

[August_West]

Calhoun won all sorts of different ways with all different styles of play.

Yup he did. But if you ever think that he had a book of offensive sets that KO doesn't have you don't know basketball past playing horse on a playground. Calhoun ran what worked for the roster. Agreed.
So does ko.

Remember how people in this thread are talking about how ko offense looks simple compared to complicated sets Calhoun ran for Ray or rip? Well KO doesn't have Ray or rip not does he have the players who could run those sets and get the guys the ball.
Guess who a month ago recommended sets be simplified for this team?

D'Oh? Jim Calhoun? Color me shocked .

 

[fgbrault]

A difference I see is Calhoun's willingness to yank a player when he did something really stupid and it seems to me Ollie waits far too long to call a time-out when things are going bad.

There simply was more discipline under Calhoun.

 

[uconNYC]

Analyze all you want. snow aint working with KO.

 

[WhiteDressWes]

August, while I agree JC's offenses weren't always pretty, I disagree that they were as rudimentary as what KO runs. JC was a master at finding something to exploit and making the other team bleed once he found it. I remember him finding a great mismatch with Lamb in the 2011 Kentucky game and getting a few huge baskets from it. He also called great plays out of timeouts.

What stands out more though was how beautifully we ran the fast break, especially during the 90s. With Sheffer, Ricky, Donyell, Donny, Rip etc it was a work of art how well we rebounded, threw great outlet passes, spaced the floor and ran teams into the ground the last 10 minutes of the game.

JC teams didn't always need to run a great half court offense because we routinely had a big advantage in free throw attempts, something we now are typically at a big disadvantage from. We run a very poor fast break these days, don't get to the line much, turn the ball over too much, which makes the poor half court planning and execution really stand out.

With Ricky's injury and Doron's groin pull, we got really slow and lost to an inferior Mississippi State. a hobbling Doron is more point guards than we have now. That JC team performed about like KO's now.

If KO has point guards and is still losing, then he needs to go. Comparing a JC team with them to a KO team without them is insulting to this former, popular point guard.