Did you people watch Calhoun UConn teams? | The Boneyard

Did you people watch Calhoun UConn teams?

August_West

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I seriously doubt any of you did.

Either that or you have severe selective memory.

In no way is what I write a ringing endorsement of Kevin Ollie. He owns most of this mess. For many reasons I'll get into. But it isn't for on the floor style of play or "ugly offense" that I see written here ad nauseam .

If I see one more post about " lack of offensive sets" or how " teams run so much more prettier offenses than UConn " I want to puke.

Because that was Calhouns case too. We never ran pretty offense. Ever. Never.

How did Calhoun become the greatest coach of all time with such a predictable offense?

He had the uncanny knack of making his teams tougher than everyone else. Our good teams were always tougher. When our offense wasn't pretty we had horses crashing glass and cleaning up messes. You saw witchita do that yesterday in 2nd half. Cleaning glass off misses erases a lot of bad looking offense.

On defense we were brutal to teams. alternately having teams that could really get into you on the perimeter or having devastating rim protectors where no team would ever get anything easy . How many times over the years would you see teams actually get near the rim realize there was an oak , thabeet, even Brimah and not even take a shot and bring the ball back out because of fear?

We made games ugly. They were rockfights . There was never anything easy.
Through defensive will, keying offense off of defense, some offensive rebounding toughness and players who consistently improved it was a formula for great success. Unparalleled.

But does anyone ever wonder why the one thing lacking on JCs awesome coaching resume is a consistent string of NCAA tourney appearances? There were quite a few years JC teams stayed home while teams at our elite level would go every year.

Because JC's coaching style demanded all in defensive buy in plus a dynamic player or two who found consistency. When we weren't the mentally and physically toughest teams in the country we suffered even on very talented teams ( see 2012, 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993)
It is much harder to build a team with a collective constant will to win. Playing in such a demanding system. JC couldn't always do it, but when he did we were very hard to beat.

What I'm getting at is that KO is a Calhoun disciple . He is trying to keep JC's style of UConn basketball.

I see it.

Isn't it funny that in the closer losses against teams way more talented than us this year ( mich state, zona, WSU) that I see people on here saying "oh we suck, those teams were just having " off nights" . No it wasn't off nights. It's not coincidence . We made the games ugly. We competed hard and paid attention to detail on the defensive end in ways that we don't against lesser teams.
It looked like traditional UConn winning basketball for big stretches of all those games. The problems were we couldn't sustain it. We don't have enough horses. It takes great effort to sustain that style of play and notice that under 10 minutes left in each of those games we are simply gassed. KO has had to take timeouts under 10 to just rest players.

Now problem number 1 with that, that I will hang on KO (but not entirely) is why can the players only get up and play with the effort required to make our system successful against top 10 teams? I mean I get that is human nature to get juiced for the big moments. But for the system to work we have to buy in as a team culture every minute of every game . We don't.

Also, and the buck stops with KO as head coach, but again not entirely:
We are stupid. I mean this is a situationally unaware just mind boggling stupid collection of players as far as making unforced mistakes . Whether it is Vital chucking ridiculous threes , multiple players travelling, and larrier and Adams being so loose with the ball, we don't ever go more than 2 consecutive trips without absolutely shooting ourselves in the foot. KO can't be on the floor. And it's not like he can bench guys for stupid, because on the bench he has people who just ratchet up the stupid if out on the floor.

And then here is where it gets so fun.
If we manage to avoid stupid on the offensive end and get a good shot, we can't hit it. The shooting is just abysmal. We were never going to be that great a shooting team, but we shouldn't be this bad.

I think people think our low assist numbers are due to poor offense. Not really we have never run a high assist number type of offense. Our assists numbers are so terrible because we can't make a frickin shot. Please someone tell me, who do you want Jalen or Terry throwing the ball to for a score?
Polley?
Carlton?
DO?
ANDERSON?
Cobb?
Whaley?
Vital who is a black hole inconsistent 3 chucker?

None of them have any offensive game. I don't care if you bring in Pete Carril to run the Princeton offense none of those guys at this point have any inkling on how to play within themselves and put a ball in the hoop.

It's the Jalen and Terry show sink or swim. Unfortunately Jalen hasn't taken the next step that he should've for a kid with his tools junior year. He desperately needs to start draining that elbow jumper he can get any time he wants. It would open up the lane for drives, and dishing. And Terry looks like he's getting it and can be unstoppable except for the fact that he can't seem to ever get going in 1st half, and he has bad judgement putting the ball on the floor.

But to me bad offense is anyone but those 2 guys taking shots. Even with their flaws, and their flaws are hurting us right now.

We just don't have answers, our margin of error is so thin. We get something offensively we miss a shot. Good teams like the 3 I mentioned above if we have a single defensive breakdown after 5 excellent defensive trips by us , sink a three. Or get a board.

Now if you want to blame Ollie for having the players he has or players not getting better, or mind scratching lineups and substitution patterns, I get all that and fully agree.

But I don't blame him for trying to continue Jim Calhouns legacy and style and brand of UConn basketball. It brought us four titles.
And for good stretches against the best 3 teams we played this year, it proves to me that it can still work. We just don't have enough to make it work for 40 minutes. And we don't have the buy in to play that way consistently it is such a mentally fragile team.

Now that can entirely be KOs fault for not keeping his players engaged day in and day out, or some can hang on some players too. Don't care doesn't matter , end result the same and buck stops with coach.

But remember one thing. UConn basketball "style" as a brand is gone forever if KO can't find a way to make it work and we need to replace him.

And that makes me sad.

I don't know if he can do it or not off the floor. Because that's where our problems lie.
 
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Fair assesment. I am shocked but, hey, it's great.

I agree that we had some ugly years under Calhoun. But, they were never this ugly nor did we have so many in such a short time period. And we never heard the off court rumors we are hearing now. All that combined makes it tough to believe we will see the kind of bounce back season like Calhoun had. I wish it weren't this way. Sucks for all involved.
 

August_West

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Problem #1 - Stop comparing Calhoun to Ollie; for that matter stop comparing Calhoun to anybody. Aside from Kentucky, UNC, Duke and Kansas sustaining his level of success is not happening here again (or at 345 other schools).

I'm not comparing them. I'm saying Kevin Ollie is using Calhous system .
 
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Problem #1 - Stop comparing Calhoun to Ollie; for that matter stop comparing Calhoun to anybody. Aside from Kentucky, UNC, Duke and Kansas sustaining his level of success is not happening here again (or at 345 other schools).
He didn't say that nor did anyone else. Most of us would take a tourney team 3/4ths of the time withan occasional final four run with a legit shot at a championship.
 
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His offensive sets where ugly. I was one of those scratching my head at times. We did get more assists. One problem for KO is he has no distributor and not many to distribute it to. But it looks more ugly.
 

ConnHuskBask

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I'm not comparing them. I'm saying Kevin Ollie is using Calhous system .

And basically saying how he can't execute it. The "brand" of tough and gritty basketball isn't inherit to UConn or Calhoun and most certainly isn't lost if Ollie is fired. How in the hell is the UConn brand of basketball never going to return if Ollie canned. Most would say there is a better shot it's lost forever the longer KO is here..

He didn't say that nor did anyone else. Most of us would take a tourney team 3/4ths of the time withan occasional final four run with a legit shot at a championship.

That's literally what we had under Calhoun.
 
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I seriously doubt any of you did.

Either that or you have severe selective memory.

In no way is what I write a ringing endorsement of Kevin Ollie. He owns most of this mess. For many reasons I'll get into. But it isn't for on the floor style of play or "ugly offense" that I see written here ad nauseam .

If I see one more post about " lack of offensive sets" or how " teams run so much more prettier offenses than UConn " I want to puke.

Because that was Calhouns case too. We never ran pretty offense. Ever. Never.

How did Calhoun become the greatest coach of all time with such a predictable offense?

He had the uncanny knack of making his teams tougher than everyone else. Our good teams were always tougher. When our offense wasn't pretty we had horses crashing glass and cleaning up messes. You saw witchita do that yesterday in 2nd half. Cleaning glass off misses erases a lot of bad looking offense.

On defense we were brutal to teams. alternately having teams that could really get into you on the perimeter or having devastating rim protectors where no team would ever get anything easy . How many times over the years would you see teams actually get near the rim realize there was an oak , thabeet, even Brimah and not even take a shot and bring the ball back out because of fear?

We made games ugly. They were rockfights . There was never anything easy.
Through defensive will, keying offense off of defense, some offensive rebounding toughness and players who consistently improved it was a formula for great success. Unparalleled.

But does anyone ever wonder why the one thing lacking on JCs awesome coaching resume is a consistent string of NCAA tourney appearances? There were quite a few years JC teams stayed home while teams at our elite level would go every year.

Because JC's coaching style demanded all in defensive buy in plus a dynamic player or two who found consistency. When we weren't the mentally and physically toughest teams in the country we suffered even on very talented teams ( see 2012, 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993)
It is much harder to build a team with a collective constant will to win. Playing in such a demanding system. JC couldn't always do it, but when he did we were very hard to beat.

What I'm getting at is that KO is a Calhoun disciple . He is trying to keep JC's style of UConn basketball.

I see it.

Isn't it funny that in the closer losses against teams way more talented than us this year ( mich state, zona, WSU) that I see people on here saying "oh we suck, those teams were just having " off nights" . No it wasn't off nights. It's not coincidence . We made the games ugly. We competed hard and paid attention to detail on the defensive end in ways that we don't against lesser teams.
It looked like traditional UConn winning basketball for big stretches of all those games. The problems were we couldn't sustain it. We don't have enough horses. It takes great effort to sustain that style of play and notice that under 10 minutes left in each of those games we are simply gassed. KO has had to take timeouts under 10 to just rest players.

Now problem number 1 with that, that I will hang on KO (but not entirely) is why can the players only get up and play with the effort required to make our system successful against top 10 teams? I mean I get that is human nature to get juiced for the big moments. But for the system to work we have to buy in as a team culture every minute of every game . We don't.

Also, and the buck stops with KO as head coach, but again not entirely:
We are stupid. I mean this is a situationally unaware just mind boggling stupid collection of players as far as making unforced mistakes . Whether it is Vital chucking ridiculous threes , multiple players travelling, and larrier and Adams being so loose with the ball, we don't ever go more than 2 consecutive trips without absolutely shooting ourselves in the foot. KO can't be on the floor. And it's not like he can bench guys for stupid, because on the bench he has people who just ratchet up the stupid if out on the floor.

And then here is where it gets so fun.
If we manage to avoid stupid on the offensive end and get a good shot, we can't hit it. The shooting is just abysmal. We were never going to be that great a shooting team, but we shouldn't be this bad.

I think people think our low assist numbers are due to poor offense. Not really we have never run a high assist number type of offense. Our assists numbers are so terrible because we can't make a frickin shot. Please someone tell me, who do you want Jalen or Terry throwing the ball to for a score?
Polley?
Carlton?
DO?
ANDERSON?
Cobb?
Whaley?
Vital who is a black hole inconsistent 3 chucker?

None of them have any offensive game. I don't care if you bring in Pete Carril to run the Princeton offense none of those guys at this point have any inkling on how to play within themselves and put a ball in the hoop.

It's the Jalen and Terry show sink or swim. Unfortunately Jalen hasn't taken the next step that he should've for a kid with his tools junior year. He desperately needs to start draining that elbow jumper he can get any time he wants. It would open up the lane for drives, and dishing. And Terry looks like he's getting it and can be unstoppable except for the fact that he can't seem to ever get going in 1st half, and he has bad judgement putting the ball on the floor.

But to me bad offense is anyone but those 2 guys taking shots. Even with their flaws, and their flaws are hurting us right now.

We just don't have answers, our margin of error is so thin. We get something offensively we miss a shot. Good teams like the 3 I mentioned above if we have a single defensive breakdown after 5 excellent defensive trips by us , sink a three. Or get a board.

Now if you want to blame Ollie for having the players he has or players not getting better, or mind scratching lineups and substitution patterns, I get all that and fully agree.

But I don't blame him for trying to continue Jim Calhouns legacy and style and brand of UConn basketball. It brought us four titles.
And for good stretches against the best 3 teams we played this year, it proves to me that it can still work. We just don't have enough to make it work for 40 minutes. And we don't have the buy in to play that way consistently it is such a mentally fragile team.

Now that can entirely be KOs fault for not keeping his players engaged day in and day out, or some can hang on some players too. Don't care doesn't matter , end result the same and buck stops with coach.

But remember one thing. UConn basketball "style" as a brand is gone forever if KO can't find a way to make it work and we need to replace him.

And that makes me sad.

I don't know if he can do it or not off the floor. Because that's where our problems lie.
Well I know of one person who clearly didn't watch UConn basketball in the 90's.
 
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Here we go. Another thread making excuses for KO. He’s as good as gone, waiting till March is just a formality at this point.
Isn't it still a $10M buyout (I don't follow this as much as others, so maybe I'm wrong)? Where's that coming from? Plus money for a new coach?

This team is better than where I thought it'd be in the immediate aftermath of the transfers, and worse than I thought it'd be in October. The team is bad, but no coach was turning this batch of players into much. Now, the assortment of players is on KO, but I'd be surprised if we don't have him through 2018-2019.
 

August_West

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The 2004 team ran some pretty solid sets off of Gordon and Okafor. We didn't need to "muck" up the game. We would just wear you down from the tip.

We were still elite defensively. That was our calling card . Ben Gordon and Oak made a Calhoun offense look good. Shabazz giffey and Daniels made Kos offense look good.

Funny how that works.
 

uconnphil2016

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I remember as a kid when we lost to St. Bonaventure in 2001. I would have been 8 years old, and even then I remember how crushing and embarrassing that loss felt. We now lose to teams worse than those Bonnies on a regular basis. You're right that our offenses have never been great with the exception of when we had BG and Emeka together. But we won and we rarely felt embarrassed. I feel embarrassed watching this team in pretty much every single game.
 
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Calhoun's teams were not beat up so consistently on the boards. But offensively Calhoun's teams were not lights out. Unless he had future pros shooting....which he frequently did.

I would also note that Calhoun never had a third of the team transfer out. I would argue that nobody has. Except KO. Unless the coach was let go.

If we have anymore than one person transfer this off season everyone should be off the KO band wagon. Even one transfer will raise some eyebrows if it's someone expected to play next year.
 

UConnDan97

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I remember as a kid when we lost to St. Bonaventure in 2001. I would have been 8 years old, and even then I remember how crushing and embarrassing that loss felt. We now lose to teams worse than those Bonnies on a regular basis. You're right that our offenses have never been great with the exception of when we had BG and Emeka together. But we won and we rarely felt embarrassed. I feel embarrassed watching this team in pretty much every single game.

With all due respect, if you were a kid in 2001, then you've only seen the very best basketball that UConn has had to offer. And even after having said that: if I see two kids next to each other named "George" and "Mason", I immediately smack them both, no questions asked... :eek:
 
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Isn't it still a $10M buyout (I don't follow this as much as others, so maybe I'm wrong)? Where's that coming from? Plus money for a new coach?

This team is better than where I thought it'd be in the immediate aftermath of the transfers, and worse than I thought it'd be in October. The team is bad, but no coach was turning this batch of players into much. Now, the assortment of players is on KO, but I'd be surprised if we don't have him through 2018-2019.

To be honest I’m not sure how much more of this KO can take either. My guess is a reduced buyout will be negotiated and KO can leave gracefully and get an assistant NBA job.
 
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I mean I agree under Calhoun we for the most part weren't known for great half court offense and that's not what made him a great coach. But Ollie doesn't seem to me to be trying to continue Calhoun's style, he's just failing.
 
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I'm not comparing them. I'm saying Kevin Ollie is using Calhous system .
I agree with most of what you say and mean in the OP but not with this kind of side point.

Jim Calhoun was not a point guard for 13 seasons and 11 teams in the NBA. I think we do and should expect a little more offensive proficiency from KO’s professional experience. The real issue is that this is his first head coaching job, at a top-flight program, and he is in over his head; there is no debating he is. He may be better fit at a program with more average expectations right now.
 

August_West

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Fair assesment. I am shocked but, hey, it's great.

I agree that we had some ugly years under Calhoun. But, they were never this ugly nor did we have so many in such a short time period. And we never heard the off court rumors we are hearing now. All that combined makes it tough to believe we will see the kind of bounce back season like Calhoun had. I wish it weren't this way. Sucks for all involved.

You can very well be right.

But it's why I say this battle is not on but off the " game" court with player development , player retention , and player motivation.

Those to me are KO's glaring weaknesses that give me pause.
 
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