Delany on East Coast pre-expansion push: espn | Page 11 | The Boneyard

Delany on East Coast pre-expansion push: espn

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Fishy

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You said they'd be at the top of Lacrosse, well, the ACC would still dominate.

1) You misunderstood what he wrote.
2) Stop driving the thread off its rails.
3) Why the name change?
 
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1) I basically admitted to that
2) My bad
3) Because I believe in Rock. Also JLamb has been gone for years now.
 
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...Because the Ivy League is, perhaps, the one league that gives LESS THAN A about how much coin their athletic programs as an aggregate bring in. You can't tempt them with something they don't want.

I can tell you that the Ivies care very much about how and if they can bring in some money from their athletics programs. Remember the big Title IX case, Cohen v Brown? That was, at its core, all about money when the administration tried to trim some sports while still, somehow, trying to adhere to the Education Department's (insane) interpretation of Title IX.

So I totally could see some kind of scheduling alliance between the B1G and Ivy League. Or even a broadcast rights agreement. That's got to bring in more than whatever pittance NBCSN is paying.
 

Fishy

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3) Because I believe in Rock. Also JLamb has been gone for years now.

When Rock graduates or goes pro or otherwise leaves the reservation, you can ask for a name change - no need to register a new one.
 

UConnDan97

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I can tell you that the Ivies care very much about how and if they can bring in some money from their athletics programs. Remember the big Title IX case, Cohen v Brown? That was, at its core, all about money when the administration tried to trim some sports while still, somehow, trying to adhere to the Education Department's (insane) interpretation of Title IX.

So I totally could see some kind of scheduling alliance between the B1G and Ivy League. Or even a broadcast rights agreement. That's got to bring in more than whatever pittance NBCSN is paying.

With all due respect, Yale University could cover the budget for entire state of Connecticut for a full year with their endowment. The ENTIRE state! I'm not exaggerating; 3.6 million people's worth. Harvard could do it for a year and a half. They may pursue scheduling alliances and such, but if there is anyone out there that believes they are going to make big-time conference decisions based on the tv contract money, you're only kidding yourself...
 

justinslot

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But I mean, and it's rare, you can move for reasons other than money. A&M moving to get away from Bevo would be the best example of that. It's highly unlikely (and I'm only talking about it because the idea of Cornell moving up to the B1G entertains me--farewell Syracuse, for one) but I can envision a scenario where Cornell decides they've gone as far as they can being in a league whose members benefit greatly from being associated with but are also seen as lesser to Harvard-Yale-Princeton and they'd rather forge a more Stanford-like elite academic, big time sports identity.
 
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I actually agree with you, but the differnce is that you and I most likely aren't bowtie wearing academic wonks like the majority of B1G University Presidents and decision makers appear to be. Remember these are the same people that voted to accept Nebraska because they knew it would make them more money, and immediately turned around and voted to strip their AAU Membership.

While you or I can seperate the idea of an athletic conference from an academic consortium, I'm not as confident that the movers and shakers of the B1G can. They view it as one in the same. IMO as long as you are a legitimate Div 1 university that follows the same basic policies for governing athletics as my school does, then I don't mind if my team competes against yours in football or women's soccer. The only time I have an issue with academics governing athletics, is when you put out the idea that you want elite academic entities only as a reason to deny a school membership in the past, than do a complete 180 when circunstances dictate that you should.

While I don't believe anything that MH* , Tuxedo Yoda, or the Doosh of WV ever spout off about, the idea of Cornell as an associate member is at least interesting because it satisfys the academics of the conference while concurrently knocking out the continguous arguement against UConn. The B1G would grow their hockey league by adding these two and pump a good bit of money into Cornell's AD that they are likely not seeing in the ECAC. Sure Cornell is well off, but the money to fund athletics has to come from somewhere. Instead of taking it out of their general fund, or soliciting donations from alums, that funding can now be directed to academics. All of this is moot, as just like you I don't believe it will ever happen. Its still interesting to think about.

Cornell will never ever ever break off from its Ivy League brethren.

It simply will not happen.

Being IN the Ivy League is better than being in the SEC or any other conference. It's the gold standard of college conferences.
 
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When Rock graduates or goes pro or otherwise leaves the reservation, you can ask for a name change - no need to register a new one.
I like wiping the slate clean

ok back to the thread
 
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With all due respect, Yale University could cover the budget for entire state of Connecticut for a full year with their endowment. The ENTIRE state! I'm not exaggerating; 3.6 million people's worth. Harvard could do it for a year and a half. They may pursue scheduling alliances and such, but if there is anyone out there that believes they are going to make big-time conference decisions based on the tv contract money, you're only kidding yourself...

With all due respect, Yale and Harvard (and Stanford) are somewhat unique. I went to one of their peer institutions, and had a lot of contact with the folks at the AD's fundraising arm, and with some folks at our fellow Ivies.

What you have to understand is that those endowment funds aren't unencumbered. Most of them are actually legally directed to particular bugaboos for which they were given.

Here's a silly example from Harvard. Harvard's band turns out to have a very large endowment of its own (as these things go--when I worked with them a couple decades ago it was close to $10MM). As a result, they didn't get much funding from the student activities budget or the athletic department budget, which is fair. (They're not going to get any from the music department.) You'd think everything's paid for, right? Wrong. They never had money to pay for things like (legally) copying music in their library. Music to which they owned the copyright. They had lots and lots of money to buy instruments and stuff, but they had lots of instruments—more than they could ever use. So what they didn't spend stayed "in the bank" as it were. But they never had enough money to do things like purchase music, repair uniforms, or even copy music.

I can tell you that the biggest battle that our university's fundraisers (living saints, IMO) had was raising money for athletics that didn't have lots of strings attached. Instead of getting money to refurbish the football weight room, an alumnus will think it's a good idea to have a big, foreboding bell for the game day staff to ring down at the stadium (which they use only a few times per year). It drove the foundation people not to mention the athletic director and coaching staff absolutely nuts.

Now do I think that the Ivies would ever get a lot of TV money for their athletic programs? Heck no. But any new revenues they could get, that aren't encumbered would be seen by all as something of a godsend.
 
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With all due respect, Yale and Harvard (and Stanford) are somewhat unique. I went to one of their peer institutions, and had a lot of contact with the folks at the AD's fundraising arm, and with some folks at our fellow Ivies.

What you have to understand is that those endowment funds aren't unencumbered. Most of them are actually legally directed to particular bugaboos for which they were given.

Here's a silly example from Harvard. Harvard's band turns out to have a very large endowment of its own (as these things go--when I worked with them a couple decades ago it was close to $10MM). As a result, they didn't get much funding from the student activities budget or the athletic department budget, which is fair. (They're not going to get any from the music department.) You'd think everything's paid for, right? Wrong. They never had money to pay for things like (legally) copying music in their library. Music to which they owned the copyright. They had lots and lots of money to buy instruments and stuff, but they had lots of instruments—more than they could ever use. So what they didn't spend stayed "in the bank" as it were. But they never had enough money to do things like purchase music, repair uniforms, or even copy music.

I can tell you that the biggest battle that our university's fundraisers (living saints, IMO) had was raising money for athletics that didn't have lots of strings attached. Instead of getting money to refurbish the football weight room, an alumnus will think it's a good idea to have a big, foreboding bell for the game day staff to ring down at the stadium (which they use only a few times per year). It drove the foundation people not to mention the athletic director and coaching staff absolutely nuts.

Now do I think that the Ivies would ever get a lot of TV money for their athletic programs? Heck no. But any new revenues they could get, that aren't encumbered would be seen by all as something of a godsend.

The prestige associated with the Ivy League is worth a lot of money. Without it, Dartmouth is U. Rochester, Cornell is Syracuse, Brown University is Tufts. U. Rochester, Tufts and Syracuse are all good schools. But they are not on the level of Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth.
 

UConnDan97

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With all due respect, Yale and Harvard (and Stanford) are somewhat unique. I went to one of their peer institutions, and had a lot of contact with the folks at the AD's fundraising arm, and with some folks at our fellow Ivies.

What you have to understand is that those endowment funds aren't unencumbered. Most of them are actually legally directed to particular bugaboos for which they were given.

Here's a silly example from Harvard. Harvard's band turns out to have a very large endowment of its own (as these things go--when I worked with them a couple decades ago it was close to $10MM). As a result, they didn't get much funding from the student activities budget or the athletic department budget, which is fair. (They're not going to get any from the music department.) You'd think everything's paid for, right? Wrong. They never had money to pay for things like (legally) copying music in their library. Music to which they owned the copyright. They had lots and lots of money to buy instruments and stuff, but they had lots of instruments—more than they could ever use. So what they didn't spend stayed "in the bank" as it were. But they never had enough money to do things like purchase music, repair uniforms, or even copy music.

I can tell you that the biggest battle that our university's fundraisers (living saints, IMO) had was raising money for athletics that didn't have lots of strings attached. Instead of getting money to refurbish the football weight room, an alumnus will think it's a good idea to have a big, foreboding bell for the game day staff to ring down at the stadium (which they use only a few times per year). It drove the foundation people not to mention the athletic director and coaching staff absolutely nuts.

Now do I think that the Ivies would ever get a lot of TV money for their athletic programs? Heck no. But any new revenues they could get, that aren't encumbered would be seen by all as something of a godsend.

Well then, let's put it this way: Let's say that only a meager 5% of Yale's endowment is "unencumbered". Well....that only leaves them 1 billion to play with... :confused:
 

The Funster

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When Colgate begins to be seriously discussed as a B1G candidate the CR board has officially jumped the shark.

I mean we've read about secret discussions on aircraft carriers, have witnessed the effects of crystal meth on some hillbillies from WV and have gotten far too much of a glimpse into the inner workings of nelsonmuntz's and HFD's tormented minds. We've been spit on and on, fawned over, condescendingly dismissed, lectured and scolded. We've been lifted up and depressingly dropped on our collective heads. To be fair, we have had some very friendly posters and some genuinely interesting discussions but the Colgate could/would/should make it to the B1G discussion may be more of a death knell for the CR board than Fishy's proclamation that there will be no B1G offer for the next 5-7 years.
 
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I actually agree with you, but the differnce is that you and I most likely aren't bowtie wearing academic wonks like the majority of B1G University Presidents and decision makers appear to be. Remember these are the same people that voted to accept Nebraska because they knew it would make them more money, and immediately turned around and voted to strip their AAU Membership.

While you or I can seperate the idea of an athletic conference from an academic consortium, I'm not as confident that the movers and shakers of the B1G can. They view it as one in the same. IMO as long as you are a legitimate Div 1 university that follows the same basic policies for governing athletics as my school does, then I don't mind if my team competes against yours in football or women's soccer. The only time I have an issue with academics governing athletics, is when you put out the idea that you want elite academic entities only as a reason to deny a school membership in the past, than do a complete 180 when circunstances dictate that you should.

While I don't believe anything that MH* , Tuxedo Yoda, or the Doosh of WV ever spout off about, the idea of Cornell as an associate member is at least interesting because it satisfys the academics of the conference while concurrently knocking out the continguous arguement against UConn. The B1G would grow their hockey league by adding these two and pump a good bit of money into Cornell's AD that they are likely not seeing in the ECAC. Sure Cornell is well off, but the money to fund athletics has to come from somewhere. Instead of taking it out of their general fund, or soliciting donations from alums, that funding can now be directed to academics. All of this is moot, as just like you I don't believe it will ever happen. Its still interesting to think about.
What contigenous argument? Is not FF county still in the NY/NJ market and Connecticut? I dont see the argument except from naive outlanders? UConn is already contigenous!!! Cornell ? Helps UConn get contigenous but SU who was never a serious B1G candidate would'nt?
 
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SubbaBub

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I'm surprised the Harvard band has figured out money laundering. Buy new instruments every year and selling last years on ebay. They now have unencumbered funds.
 
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If there is any discussion between the Big Ten and the Ivy League regarding athletics, I suspect it is limited to a scheduling alliance: Big Ten-Ivy League Hockey Challenge and/or Big Ten- Ivy League Lacrosse Challenge similar to the forthcoming Big Ten-Big East Gavitt Tipoff Games or ACC-Big Ten Challenge. It gives the BTN potential programming as you mentioned and it allows Delany to claim additional "presence" for the Big Ten in the East.

This would not move the needle even an inch. Filler sports are not going to help the BTN. They are necessary so that the channel doesn't go dark, but they won't aid in negotiations with cable.
 
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What contigenous argument? Is not FF county still in the NY/NJ market and Connecticut? I dont see the argument except from naive outlanders? UConn is already contigenous!!! Cornell ? Helps UConn get contigenous but SU who was never a serious B1G candidate would'nt?


I'll cut you some slack because you posted this at 2 AM. That said there has always been the perception real or imagined that like AAU Status, the B1G desires schools situated in contiguous states. My opinion is that both are important but not necessary for inclusion. The idea is that a partial Cornell Membership eliminates a potential obstacle placed in front of UCONN.
 
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I'll cut you some slack because you posted this at 2 AM. That said there has always been the perception real or imagined that like AAU Status, the B1G desires schools situated in contiguous states. My opinion is that both are important but not necessary for inclusion. The idea is that a partial Cornell Membership eliminates a potential obstacle placed in front of UCONN.
As I said....no offense but if anyone who understands the eastcoast can't figure this one out I don't know what else to say? Delany from my neighborhood in North Jersey understands!! That's why he's JD!!! As Ive said Ldandy im not just being cute as i like you're views.....just doubt this point on so called "perception" that UConn faces this silly "obstacle" except by those with little knowledge of our megalopolis here. Thats why the DC to Boston atlantic coast market is so vital in CR. Forget the upstate "outliers"....irrelevant small potatoes to the B1G and JD IMO. Lets not create false perception barriers in this conversation....UConn is contigenous!!
 
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NN, I'll assume that you live on the East Coast based off of your name, so your thoughts on UCONN will be different than persons living in the heart of Big 10 Country. While I am 100% behind bringing in more Eastern Teams, a large portion of the Midwest Base favors no expansion, contraction, or Western expansion. The handful of fans that visit here are not indicative of the majority viewpoint. If you remove the AAU and Contiguous arguments, it gives these people one less arrow in their quiver against Eastern expansion. JMO.
 

SubbaBub

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upstater said:
This would not move the needle even an inch. Filler sports are not going to help the BTN. They are necessary so that the channel doesn't go dark, but they won't aid in negotiations with cable.

I'm not so sure, the Ivies have a lot of alumni, important alumni, east coast alumni. Filling hours dedicated to the 1947 M/OSU, could be better spent with replays of ivy league hockey games or the H/Y FB game if that's the tipping point or grease gun for BTN market penetration.
 
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I'm not so sure, the Ivies have a lot of alumni, important alumni, east coast alumni. Filling hours dedicated to the 1947 M/OSU, could be better spent with replays of ivy league hockey games or the H/Y FB game if that's the tipping point or grease gun for BTN market penetration.

The Ivies actually don't have that many alumni. Most Ivies are around 5,000-$7,000 undergrads. Nor do they have a sports culture at those schools.
 
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Do any other UConn fans shudder when they hear "affiliate" or "partial" member?

The transition period here from 2013-2015 with the AAC until Navy joins as a football only member, will be the only time since 1978 that UCONN athletics has been entirely housed in a single conference with all it's other members playing the same sports together.

yes - I shudder at thought. I'm tired of it. I want to be all 22 sports in, on the Big 10.
 
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The transition period here from 2013-2015 with the AAC until Navy joins as a football only member, will be the only time since 1978 that UCONN athletics has been entirely housed in a single conference with all it's other members playing the same sports together.

yes - I shudder at thought. I'm tired of it. I want to be all 22 sports in, on the Big 10.
Isn't women's field hockey in the Big East? I don't know if there are others.
 
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