Death of Three Sport Athlete

[Chuck]

Lots of great comments in here. I think the @upstater string is a worthy one. I've heard parents talk negatively about a kid on my son's soccer team and his parents. He plays on three teams and doesn't play any other sports. That kid is super talented and personally driven to be the best at soccer. He loves everything about it. One of our older teams often calls up some kids from my son's team. This kid is the first to volunteer. In fact the coach of the older team now needs to confirm with the kid's parents because one time he lied after his parents shut him down for a weekend and he walked to the game saying he was going to a friend's house. He's also a great kid and teammate. I'd be shocked if he doesn't play through college. I have no issue with that kind of kid (love and ability) specializing.

 

[Excalibur]

What if you're good at soccer?

I can speak to this. My son (turning 11 shortly) is a very good soccer player, and could be great if he wanted to play year round. He doesn't. He wants to play basketball (he's decent but small) and baseball (not very good). He's also started running -- 5ks for now but asking about longer races. He understands the consequences but will not cave to pressure and thus will not play on the premier club in our town given their futsal and training requirements during the winter. So he plays at the competitive travel level, where he is the dominant presence and learns valuable lessons about leadership, and still gets to play other sports that he enjoys. He says he'll eventually want to concentrate more on soccer, and I've explained that it will likely be harder to break into the premier level the longer he waits. He gets it, and doesn't care. As far as I'm concerned, if it comes to that, it's the club's loss.

Specialization probably makes sense for about 5% of kids that are truly exceptional at a sport from a young age and that clearly love that one sport. But it's tough to field enough teams with only that 5%, so the people running the teams appeal to parents' egos, and it works.

 

[upstater]

With soccer, premier teams have legit seasons as the same time as the high school season, which makes kids choose between their club and high school. As a lacrosse coach and former player, I know there are a ton of teams out there and various tournaments, but that is primarily in the summer/fall with some winter leagues as well. Point is, unlike soccer, these club teams don't force kids to pick and choose between their club and school.

It's not a premier thing. It's a US soccer thing. The choice between club/school is only forced by US Soccer and their development academies. Otherwise, the highest levels of premier soccer encourage school sports participation. On the girls side especially where you have some of the top leagues not affiliated with youth soccer, those girls do play school soccer. But even with US Soccer, you can play for a club affiliated with US Soccer and still compete at a very high level in their National League, which allows youth sports participation.

There are essentially 4 leagues:

Development Academy (US Soccer, MLS Clubs, etc.) = No school soccer
National League (US Soccer) = Permits school soccer
ECNL (Elite Club National League) = Permits it
NPL (National Premier Leagues) = Permit it

 

[UofCT]

Too much burnout with sports because they only play 1.

Little billy's daddy needs to realize he isn't going to be a d1 baller at 5'7. Let the kid do track.

I used to work in the youth sports space and this is SPOT ON. Club sports is a beast and essentially emphasizes a year round commitment. It's also insanely expensive. Club fees + tournaments + camps + showcases + highlight reels & video + equipment + travel expenses. The worst part is that this doesn't even guarantee playing time OR that you will get recruited.

 

[the Q]

I can speak to this. My son (turning 11 shortly) is a very good soccer player, and could be great if he wanted to play year round. He doesn't. He wants to play basketball (he's decent but small) and baseball (not very good). He's also started running -- 5ks for now but asking about longer races. He understands the consequences but will not cave to pressure and thus will not play on the premier club in our town given their futsal and training requirements during the winter. So he plays at the competitive travel level, where he is the dominant presence and learns valuable lessons about leadership, and still gets to play other sports that he enjoys. He says he'll eventually want to concentrate more on soccer, and I've explained that it will likely be harder to break into the premier level the longer he waits. He gets it, and doesn't care. As far as I'm concerned, if it comes to that, it's the club's loss.

Specialization probably makes sense for about 5% of kids that are truly exceptional at a sport from a young age and that clearly love that one sport. But it's tough to field enough teams with only that 5%, so the people running the teams appeal to parents' egos, and it works.

Exactly. But I don’t know how anyone can decide they should specialize until they’ve hit puberty, unless the kid just really really loves the sport.

If they just want to play, have at it. If the kid enjoys it and doesn’t get hurt, that’s all that matters.

Once you reach hs is when real
Specialization talks should begin. Even then things can change.

I was 5’8 as a freshman. By my junior year I was 6-2 and football coaches were begging me to play. You just don’t know how kids are going to develop, both physically and mentally

 

[Excalibur]

It's not a premier thing. It's a US soccer thing. The choice between club/school is only forced by US Soccer and their development academies. Otherwise, the highest levels of premier soccer encourage school sports participation. On the girls side especially where you have some of the top leagues not affiliated with youth soccer, those girls do play school soccer. But even with US Soccer, you can play for a club affiliated with US Soccer and still compete at a very high level in their National League, which allows youth sports participation.

There are essentially 4 leagues:

Development Academy (US Soccer, MLS Clubs, etc.) = No school soccer
National League (US Soccer) = Permits school soccer
ECNL (Elite Club National League) = Permits it
NPL (National Premier Leagues) = Permit it

Most of the premier clubs around us independently prohibit HS soccer participation.

 

[Poe]

Parents are also holding their kids back for a year from starting kindergarten so they’re better than the younger kids in their class at sports. This is something only the affluent can afford to do as many middle and lower income families have to send their kids to kindergarten as soon as they are eligible so they don’t have to pay an additional year of preschool/childcare.

The cost of sports outside of school is also absurd, so again specialization seems to be only an option for those who can afford it, those that can’t will likely play different sports through the school, or unorganized sports, e.g., pickup b-ball.

 

[the Q]

Parents are also holding their kids back for a year from starting kindergarten so they’re better than the younger kids in their class at sports. This is something only the affluent can afford to do as many middle and lower income families have to send their kids to kindergarten as soon as they are eligible so they don’t have to pay an additional year of preschool/childcare.

The cost of sports outside of school is also absurd, so again specialization seems to be only an option for those who can afford it, those that can’t will likely play different sports through the school, or unorganized sports, e.g., pickup b-ball.

Some will hold the kid back in 8th grade now.

 

[upstater]

I can speak to this. My son (turning 11 shortly) is a very good soccer player, and could be great if he wanted to play year round. He doesn't. He wants to play basketball (he's decent but small) and baseball (not very good). He's also started running -- 5ks for now but asking about longer races. He understands the consequences but will not cave to pressure and thus will not play on the premier club in our town given their futsal and training requirements during the winter. So he plays at the competitive travel level, where he is the dominant presence and learns valuable lessons about leadership, and still gets to play other sports that he enjoys. He says he'll eventually want to concentrate more on soccer, and I've explained that it will likely be harder to break into the premier level the longer he waits. He gets it, and doesn't care. As far as I'm concerned, if it comes to that, it's the club's loss.

Specialization probably makes sense for about 5% of kids that are truly exceptional at a sport from a young age and that clearly love that one sport. But it's tough to field enough teams with only that 5%, so the people running the teams appeal to parents' egos, and it works.

He should play other sports. It's what he wants to do. You outlined the other concerns, that if soccer is his #1 love, he might fall behind. With my daughter, soccer is her #1 sport. That doesn't mean she will push herself beyond the bounds we've set for her to go all out for a college scholarship. We have boundaries as well. And we've made decisions similar to yours in another way.

Here's an example: she was invited to join a Development Academy team and play a year up. But she's only 12, and that would have meant long trips for her (transport provided) multiple days a week, and weekends spent on club buses, hotels. We just said no to this because it would disrupt her life (her family life with us). It would be much less disruptive for us (we'd do a lot less driving since transport is provided) and it would be a lot cheaper (all hotel, food, long distance travel is paid for by the club), but at what cost? Anyway--we made that decision. Another kid from her current team got the invite once we turned it down. She joined. She does homework each night in the van (a 5 hour after school commitment: 2 hours driving roundtrip, 1 1/2 hour practice, 45 minutes yoga/training, 20 minute soccer study session). Her team has 2 Class A coaches, one of whom played in Eredivisie in Holland (top league). After 6 months, there's a night and day difference in this girl's play. She has improved markedly. It's no joke what top level training will do for any athletic kid that shows dedication.

We joined a club that will only take 2 hours 15 minutes a night from my daughter's life, though I am responsible for all the travel/hotels, ugh. She will not be getting the same level of training she could have with the DA team, even though her coach is the head coach of a men's college team D2. But that's OK, since she will still compete against top soccer teams in the National League and she can still play school soccer.

I would stress to people looking at this from the outside that there are very limited options for parents with kids who want to compete at high levels in soccer.

If I designed it myself, of course I would design it differently so that we wouldn't do it this way. But our options are limited.

 

[upstater]

Most of the premier clubs around us independently prohibit HS soccer participation.

That is crazy.

Our club in the National League does not, even though we also have a DA team that does prohibit it. Across town there is a club that is often first place in its ECNL league, and they don't prohibit it either. So these clubs are competing at very high levels nationally, and neither prohibits it. In fact, my daughter's club doesn't even start training until November 1st (altho those maniacs scheduled a far away tourney the very first weekend after the start of training!)

 

[Excalibur]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

 

[the Q]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

I wouldn’t mind a real academy model, like Europe, but the risk is what happens to those kids who physically peak early? What happens to them in Europe now?

 

[superjohn]

The best/worst part about it is the overwhelming majority of the parents who are maniacal about this have a kid that never ends up playing anywhere. All that money, time, and effort wasted and then at the end of it your kid can't stand you.

 

[Chin Diesel]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

Part of the herd mentality.

If almost everyone, including the top athletes, play multiple sports and only a few kids, including mediocre ones, concentrate on one, some mediocre kids end up getting scholarships. A few parents notice that and now everyone is in to specialization. The initial advantage of scarcity is now spread evenly and the field is leveled again.

 

[the Q]

The best/worst part about it is the overwhelming majority of the parents who are maniacal about this have a kid that never ends up playing anywhere. All that money, time, and effort wasted and then at the end of it your kid can't stand yiu.

Most of those kids, the parents would’ve been better off sending all that money into a 529 plan.

Such a small amount of kids get full scholarships, and in baseball almost no players get full rides.

 

[Chin Diesel]

A couple of people brought up height/weight/size and setting expectations.

By age 10 growth charts are spot on for 95%+ of the population. We all know some anecdotal stories of unexplained growth but for the most part, those charts are published for a reason. Need to sit kids down and explain what this means to them going forward. It may not dictate dropping a sport but learning new positions. Same with measurable for each sport- sprint speed, height, vertical jumps, agility, etc.

 

[superjohn]

A couple of people brought up height/weight/size and setting expectations.

By age 10 growth charts are spot on for 95%+ of the population. We all know some anecdotal stories of unexplained growth but for the most part, those charts are published for a reason. Need to sit kids down and explain what this means to them going forward. It may not dictate dropping a sport but learning new positions. Same with measurable for each sport- sprint speed, height, vertical jumps, agility, etc.

You know how doctors predict how tall your kid is going to be? They look at the size of the parents.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

It's not a premier thing. It's a US soccer thing. The choice between club/school is only forced by US Soccer and their development academies. Otherwise, the highest levels of premier soccer encourage school sports participation. On the girls side especially where you have some of the top leagues not affiliated with youth soccer, those girls do play school soccer. But even with US Soccer, you can play for a club affiliated with US Soccer and still compete at a very high level in their National League, which allows youth sports participation.

There are essentially 4 leagues:

Development Academy (US Soccer, MLS Clubs, etc.) = No school soccer
National League (US Soccer) = Permits school soccer
ECNL (Elite Club National League) = Permits it
NPL (National Premier Leagues) = Permit it

thanks for clearing that up!

 

[husky429]

You know how doctors predict how tall your kid is going to be? They look at the size of the parents.

They have a matrix they use. Size of parents + size of the kid at a certain thing. You can find the same things online that are fairly accurate too.

 

[Excalibur]

Most of those kids, the parents would’ve been better off sending all that money into a 529 plan.

Such a small amount of kids get full scholarships, and in baseball almost no players get full rides.

I'm not even sure the scholarship is worth it based on the abuse most college athletes take. Again, I think you really need to love the sport to make it worthwhile.

Our club has professional coaches for the non-premier travel teams. I've had two coaches at two age levels say that my son is the best player they've had at his age and ask why he's not playing up. Even if that were true (it's not), he doesn't love the game enough to dedicate the time that they would demand without burning out. The overwhelming majority of kids don't. If he doesn't love it that much, is he going to dedicate himself to the extent necessary to play at that level when he's older? Probably not. Pushing him to chase imaginary dollar signs would be to his detriment.

 

[upstater]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

Well, we chose not to do DA BECAUSE of the model. It's way too much. I don't think her current team has that model--it's not a time killer like DA. But if you're talking about year-round soccer, then yes, it's a 8 month model, 10 if you count school soccer.

The DA is rarefied. There aren't that many teams across the USA. There's the MLS Clubs and then about that many other teams unaffiliated with DA.

College scholarships in the DA are pretty high. Our club has a sheet of kids that received full D1 rides the prior year (15% of the team) and partial scholarships (practically the rest of them, up to 85%). About 15% did not receive any offers. This club has several players in MLS right now, and 2 on the USMNT.

But again, I did my own homework on this, and I saw that there are actually very few colleges playing D1 soccer in the northeast. It's basically the state schools and just a handful of others, like Syracuse and Bucknell. That's it. I have less than zero interest in having her attain a partial scholarship to Roberts Wesleyan or whatever.

The irony of course--again--is that I'll pay more for non-DA because of travel.

Obviously, parents talk to other parents, and though some are thinking scholarship or more (in the minority) the majority are doing it because their kid wants it and there are not many options out there. If you're not going to do town travel in my area, your options are limited to 2 clubs and a for-profit club affiliated with Bayern Munich. That's it. It's really take-it-or-leave it.

My other daughter is a good soccer player as well, and when the premier club has her as a guest player, she shines, but since she does so many other things, she is sticking to travel soccer. I'd say 90% of the kids are choosing premier, with no parental pressure to do it.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

I teach and coach in a PK-8 private school in a rich CT town and I see specialization even starting at Grade 5, which is absurd.

Kids bail out of team sports like soccer, basketball, baseball and softball to sign up for "dispensation" for individual sports like ballet, fencing and squash outside of school. These kids are spoiled enough and a team sport is a great opportunity to learn important "soft skills" like collaboration, delaying gratitude, perseverance, supporting one another and grit that are way more important for their long-term success than what high school or college they attend.

Not a fan of specialization one bit.

 

[upstater]

Part of the herd mentality.

If almost everyone, including the top athletes, play multiple sports and only a few kids, including mediocre ones, concentrate on one, some mediocre kids end up getting scholarships. A few parents notice that and now everyone is in to specialization. The initial advantage of scarcity is now spread evenly and the field is leveled again.

When I walk into some of these complexes and see field hockey players as young as 8 doubled over a stick in mid-winter, I tend to agree with you. I'm like, "back problems?" They are doing it because they heard some cow college in the midwest is looking for tuba players and field hockey players. The kids can't love it!! LOL.

With soccer, it's the opposite since so many play it.

As for top athletes, it used to be that being athletic on the soccer field was key. But now skill level--learned from specializing--is increasingly more prized. But remember, you have a kid like Pulisic who was overlooked when he was 14-15 because of his stature and perceived athleticism moving on to the highest stages. I'm sure they liked athletes more than him, but it was his skill level that let him proceed.

 

[upstater]

I wouldn’t mind a real academy model, like Europe, but the risk is what happens to those kids who physically peak early? What happens to them in Europe now?

There was a recent article in the NY Times about this. Dealing with Ajax mostly. It wasn't pretty at all. You're told to hit the road. You're in your teens, and you have a substandard education (you leave school each day at 10:30). It's ugly.

This is why I sometimes think we need to cool it a bit when we denigrate schools for taking in students who would not otherwise be admitted. As long as the school tries to help these athletes increase their academic aptitude, it just might beat the alternative you see in Europe.

 

[the Q]

Well, we chose not to do DA BECAUSE of the model. It's way too much. I don't think her current team has that model--it's not a time killer like DA. But if you're talking about year-round soccer, then yes, it's a 8 month model, 10 if you count school soccer.

The DA is rarefied. There aren't that many teams across the USA. There's the MLS Clubs and then about that many other teams unaffiliated with DA.

College scholarships in the DA are pretty high. Our club has a sheet of kids that received full D1 rides the prior year (15% of the team) and partial scholarships (practically the rest of them, up to 85%). About 15% did not receive any offers. This club has several players in MLS right now, and 2 on the USMNT.

But again, I did my own homework on this, and I saw that there are actually very few colleges playing D1 soccer in the northeast. It's basically the state schools and just a handful of others, like Syracuse and Bucknell. That's it. I have less than zero interest in having her attain a partial scholarship to Roberts Wesleyan or whatever.

The irony of course--again--is that I'll pay more for non-DA because of travel.

Obviously, parents talk to other parents, and though some are thinking scholarship or more (in the minority) the majority are doing it because their kid wants it and there are not many options out there. If you're not going to do town travel in my area, your options are limited to 2 clubs and a for-profit club affiliated with Bayern Munich. That's it. It's really take-it-or-leave it.

My other daughter is a good soccer player as well, and when the premier club has her as a guest player, she shines, but since she does so many other things, she is sticking to travel soccer. I'd say 90% of the kids are choosing premier, with no parental pressure to do it.

If the kids are happy, not burning out and healthy, I’m all for it (even tho playing other sports will help them with at least 2/3 of that).

But it is rare for kids to not get burnout doing that.