Death of Three Sport Athlete

[Excalibur]

It's not a premier thing. It's a US soccer thing. The choice between club/school is only forced by US Soccer and their development academies. Otherwise, the highest levels of premier soccer encourage school sports participation. On the girls side especially where you have some of the top leagues not affiliated with youth soccer, those girls do play school soccer. But even with US Soccer, you can play for a club affiliated with US Soccer and still compete at a very high level in their National League, which allows youth sports participation.

There are essentially 4 leagues:

Development Academy (US Soccer, MLS Clubs, etc.) = No school soccer
National League (US Soccer) = Permits school soccer
ECNL (Elite Club National League) = Permits it
NPL (National Premier Leagues) = Permit it

Most of the premier clubs around us independently prohibit HS soccer participation.

 

[Poe]

Parents are also holding their kids back for a year from starting kindergarten so they’re better than the younger kids in their class at sports. This is something only the affluent can afford to do as many middle and lower income families have to send their kids to kindergarten as soon as they are eligible so they don’t have to pay an additional year of preschool/childcare.

The cost of sports outside of school is also absurd, so again specialization seems to be only an option for those who can afford it, those that can’t will likely play different sports through the school, or unorganized sports, e.g., pickup b-ball.

 

[the Q]

Parents are also holding their kids back for a year from starting kindergarten so they’re better than the younger kids in their class at sports. This is something only the affluent can afford to do as many middle and lower income families have to send their kids to kindergarten as soon as they are eligible so they don’t have to pay an additional year of preschool/childcare.

The cost of sports outside of school is also absurd, so again specialization seems to be only an option for those who can afford it, those that can’t will likely play different sports through the school, or unorganized sports, e.g., pickup b-ball.

Some will hold the kid back in 8th grade now.

 

[upstater]

I can speak to this. My son (turning 11 shortly) is a very good soccer player, and could be great if he wanted to play year round. He doesn't. He wants to play basketball (he's decent but small) and baseball (not very good). He's also started running -- 5ks for now but asking about longer races. He understands the consequences but will not cave to pressure and thus will not play on the premier club in our town given their futsal and training requirements during the winter. So he plays at the competitive travel level, where he is the dominant presence and learns valuable lessons about leadership, and still gets to play other sports that he enjoys. He says he'll eventually want to concentrate more on soccer, and I've explained that it will likely be harder to break into the premier level the longer he waits. He gets it, and doesn't care. As far as I'm concerned, if it comes to that, it's the club's loss.

Specialization probably makes sense for about 5% of kids that are truly exceptional at a sport from a young age and that clearly love that one sport. But it's tough to field enough teams with only that 5%, so the people running the teams appeal to parents' egos, and it works.

He should play other sports. It's what he wants to do. You outlined the other concerns, that if soccer is his #1 love, he might fall behind. With my daughter, soccer is her #1 sport. That doesn't mean she will push herself beyond the bounds we've set for her to go all out for a college scholarship. We have boundaries as well. And we've made decisions similar to yours in another way.

Here's an example: she was invited to join a Development Academy team and play a year up. But she's only 12, and that would have meant long trips for her (transport provided) multiple days a week, and weekends spent on club buses, hotels. We just said no to this because it would disrupt her life (her family life with us). It would be much less disruptive for us (we'd do a lot less driving since transport is provided) and it would be a lot cheaper (all hotel, food, long distance travel is paid for by the club), but at what cost? Anyway--we made that decision. Another kid from her current team got the invite once we turned it down. She joined. She does homework each night in the van (a 5 hour after school commitment: 2 hours driving roundtrip, 1 1/2 hour practice, 45 minutes yoga/training, 20 minute soccer study session). Her team has 2 Class A coaches, one of whom played in Eredivisie in Holland (top league). After 6 months, there's a night and day difference in this girl's play. She has improved markedly. It's no joke what top level training will do for any athletic kid that shows dedication.

We joined a club that will only take 2 hours 15 minutes a night from my daughter's life, though I am responsible for all the travel/hotels, ugh. She will not be getting the same level of training she could have with the DA team, even though her coach is the head coach of a men's college team D2. But that's OK, since she will still compete against top soccer teams in the National League and she can still play school soccer.

I would stress to people looking at this from the outside that there are very limited options for parents with kids who want to compete at high levels in soccer.

If I designed it myself, of course I would design it differently so that we wouldn't do it this way. But our options are limited.

 

[upstater]

Most of the premier clubs around us independently prohibit HS soccer participation.

That is crazy.

Our club in the National League does not, even though we also have a DA team that does prohibit it. Across town there is a club that is often first place in its ECNL league, and they don't prohibit it either. So these clubs are competing at very high levels nationally, and neither prohibits it. In fact, my daughter's club doesn't even start training until November 1st (altho those maniacs scheduled a far away tourney the very first weekend after the start of training!)

 

[Excalibur]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

 

[the Q]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

I wouldn’t mind a real academy model, like Europe, but the risk is what happens to those kids who physically peak early? What happens to them in Europe now?

 

[superjohn]

The best/worst part about it is the overwhelming majority of the parents who are maniacal about this have a kid that never ends up playing anywhere. All that money, time, and effort wasted and then at the end of it your kid can't stand you.

 

[Chin Diesel]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

Part of the herd mentality.

If almost everyone, including the top athletes, play multiple sports and only a few kids, including mediocre ones, concentrate on one, some mediocre kids end up getting scholarships. A few parents notice that and now everyone is in to specialization. The initial advantage of scarcity is now spread evenly and the field is leveled again.

 

[the Q]

The best/worst part about it is the overwhelming majority of the parents who are maniacal about this have a kid that never ends up playing anywhere. All that money, time, and effort wasted and then at the end of it your kid can't stand yiu.

Most of those kids, the parents would’ve been better off sending all that money into a 529 plan.

Such a small amount of kids get full scholarships, and in baseball almost no players get full rides.

 

[Chin Diesel]

A couple of people brought up height/weight/size and setting expectations.

By age 10 growth charts are spot on for 95%+ of the population. We all know some anecdotal stories of unexplained growth but for the most part, those charts are published for a reason. Need to sit kids down and explain what this means to them going forward. It may not dictate dropping a sport but learning new positions. Same with measurable for each sport- sprint speed, height, vertical jumps, agility, etc.

 

[superjohn]

A couple of people brought up height/weight/size and setting expectations.

By age 10 growth charts are spot on for 95%+ of the population. We all know some anecdotal stories of unexplained growth but for the most part, those charts are published for a reason. Need to sit kids down and explain what this means to them going forward. It may not dictate dropping a sport but learning new positions. Same with measurable for each sport- sprint speed, height, vertical jumps, agility, etc.

You know how doctors predict how tall your kid is going to be? They look at the size of the parents.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

It's not a premier thing. It's a US soccer thing. The choice between club/school is only forced by US Soccer and their development academies. Otherwise, the highest levels of premier soccer encourage school sports participation. On the girls side especially where you have some of the top leagues not affiliated with youth soccer, those girls do play school soccer. But even with US Soccer, you can play for a club affiliated with US Soccer and still compete at a very high level in their National League, which allows youth sports participation.

There are essentially 4 leagues:

Development Academy (US Soccer, MLS Clubs, etc.) = No school soccer
National League (US Soccer) = Permits school soccer
ECNL (Elite Club National League) = Permits it
NPL (National Premier Leagues) = Permit it

thanks for clearing that up!

 

[husky429]

You know how doctors predict how tall your kid is going to be? They look at the size of the parents.

They have a matrix they use. Size of parents + size of the kid at a certain thing. You can find the same things online that are fairly accurate too.

 

[Excalibur]

Most of those kids, the parents would’ve been better off sending all that money into a 529 plan.

Such a small amount of kids get full scholarships, and in baseball almost no players get full rides.

I'm not even sure the scholarship is worth it based on the abuse most college athletes take. Again, I think you really need to love the sport to make it worthwhile.

Our club has professional coaches for the non-premier travel teams. I've had two coaches at two age levels say that my son is the best player they've had at his age and ask why he's not playing up. Even if that were true (it's not), he doesn't love the game enough to dedicate the time that they would demand without burning out. The overwhelming majority of kids don't. If he doesn't love it that much, is he going to dedicate himself to the extent necessary to play at that level when he's older? Probably not. Pushing him to chase imaginary dollar signs would be to his detriment.

 

[upstater]

If a kid is good enough and dedicated enough to play with a DA, I have no problem. But that's what, 2, maybe 3% of the population? Yet the model is forced on 30-40% . . .

Well, we chose not to do DA BECAUSE of the model. It's way too much. I don't think her current team has that model--it's not a time killer like DA. But if you're talking about year-round soccer, then yes, it's a 8 month model, 10 if you count school soccer.

The DA is rarefied. There aren't that many teams across the USA. There's the MLS Clubs and then about that many other teams unaffiliated with DA.

College scholarships in the DA are pretty high. Our club has a sheet of kids that received full D1 rides the prior year (15% of the team) and partial scholarships (practically the rest of them, up to 85%). About 15% did not receive any offers. This club has several players in MLS right now, and 2 on the USMNT.

But again, I did my own homework on this, and I saw that there are actually very few colleges playing D1 soccer in the northeast. It's basically the state schools and just a handful of others, like Syracuse and Bucknell. That's it. I have less than zero interest in having her attain a partial scholarship to Roberts Wesleyan or whatever.

The irony of course--again--is that I'll pay more for non-DA because of travel.

Obviously, parents talk to other parents, and though some are thinking scholarship or more (in the minority) the majority are doing it because their kid wants it and there are not many options out there. If you're not going to do town travel in my area, your options are limited to 2 clubs and a for-profit club affiliated with Bayern Munich. That's it. It's really take-it-or-leave it.

My other daughter is a good soccer player as well, and when the premier club has her as a guest player, she shines, but since she does so many other things, she is sticking to travel soccer. I'd say 90% of the kids are choosing premier, with no parental pressure to do it.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

I teach and coach in a PK-8 private school in a rich CT town and I see specialization even starting at Grade 5, which is absurd.

Kids bail out of team sports like soccer, basketball, baseball and softball to sign up for "dispensation" for individual sports like ballet, fencing and squash outside of school. These kids are spoiled enough and a team sport is a great opportunity to learn important "soft skills" like collaboration, delaying gratitude, perseverance, supporting one another and grit that are way more important for their long-term success than what high school or college they attend.

Not a fan of specialization one bit.

 

[upstater]

Part of the herd mentality.

If almost everyone, including the top athletes, play multiple sports and only a few kids, including mediocre ones, concentrate on one, some mediocre kids end up getting scholarships. A few parents notice that and now everyone is in to specialization. The initial advantage of scarcity is now spread evenly and the field is leveled again.

When I walk into some of these complexes and see field hockey players as young as 8 doubled over a stick in mid-winter, I tend to agree with you. I'm like, "back problems?" They are doing it because they heard some cow college in the midwest is looking for tuba players and field hockey players. The kids can't love it!! LOL.

With soccer, it's the opposite since so many play it.

As for top athletes, it used to be that being athletic on the soccer field was key. But now skill level--learned from specializing--is increasingly more prized. But remember, you have a kid like Pulisic who was overlooked when he was 14-15 because of his stature and perceived athleticism moving on to the highest stages. I'm sure they liked athletes more than him, but it was his skill level that let him proceed.

 

[upstater]

I wouldn’t mind a real academy model, like Europe, but the risk is what happens to those kids who physically peak early? What happens to them in Europe now?

There was a recent article in the NY Times about this. Dealing with Ajax mostly. It wasn't pretty at all. You're told to hit the road. You're in your teens, and you have a substandard education (you leave school each day at 10:30). It's ugly.

This is why I sometimes think we need to cool it a bit when we denigrate schools for taking in students who would not otherwise be admitted. As long as the school tries to help these athletes increase their academic aptitude, it just might beat the alternative you see in Europe.

 

[the Q]

Well, we chose not to do DA BECAUSE of the model. It's way too much. I don't think her current team has that model--it's not a time killer like DA. But if you're talking about year-round soccer, then yes, it's a 8 month model, 10 if you count school soccer.

The DA is rarefied. There aren't that many teams across the USA. There's the MLS Clubs and then about that many other teams unaffiliated with DA.

College scholarships in the DA are pretty high. Our club has a sheet of kids that received full D1 rides the prior year (15% of the team) and partial scholarships (practically the rest of them, up to 85%). About 15% did not receive any offers. This club has several players in MLS right now, and 2 on the USMNT.

But again, I did my own homework on this, and I saw that there are actually very few colleges playing D1 soccer in the northeast. It's basically the state schools and just a handful of others, like Syracuse and Bucknell. That's it. I have less than zero interest in having her attain a partial scholarship to Roberts Wesleyan or whatever.

The irony of course--again--is that I'll pay more for non-DA because of travel.

Obviously, parents talk to other parents, and though some are thinking scholarship or more (in the minority) the majority are doing it because their kid wants it and there are not many options out there. If you're not going to do town travel in my area, your options are limited to 2 clubs and a for-profit club affiliated with Bayern Munich. That's it. It's really take-it-or-leave it.

My other daughter is a good soccer player as well, and when the premier club has her as a guest player, she shines, but since she does so many other things, she is sticking to travel soccer. I'd say 90% of the kids are choosing premier, with no parental pressure to do it.

If the kids are happy, not burning out and healthy, I’m all for it (even tho playing other sports will help them with at least 2/3 of that).

But it is rare for kids to not get burnout doing that.

 

[the Q]

There was a recent article in the NY Times about this. Dealing with Ajax mostly. It wasn't pretty at all. You're told to hit the road. You're in your teens, and you have a substandard education (you leave school each day at 10:30). It's ugly.

This is why I sometimes think we need to cool it a bit when we denigrate schools for taking in students who would not otherwise be admitted. As long as the school tries to help these athletes increase their academic aptitude, it just might beat the alternative you see in Europe.

I think some bring it on themselves like duke and their self righteousness until it was exposed that the average sat score of the 2005(ish) team was like 850.

College sports are what they are...big business for the school and a vehicle for some to a better life for students, and not just the future professional athletes.

 

[QDOG5]

The best/worst part about it is the overwhelming majority of the parents who are maniacal about this have a kid that never ends up playing anywhere. All that money, time, and effort wasted and then at the end of it your kid can't stand you.

Personal experience? Were you the kid or the parent?

 

[HooperScooper]

A subject near and dear to my heart. I've been talking about this since my kids were in middle school playing multiple sports and saw the inevitably of it being an issue when they got to high school.

You can blame the proliferation of club and AAU teams in every sport. How did all this come about? Crazy parents and people who had no other skills but their sport and who were able to profit off it because us crazy parents were willing to pay for our kids to play a sport all year long.

A friend of mine in high school was a high level basketball player all throughout high school. I asked him what he did in the offseason with basketball. He said nothing except a couple of weeks at a basketball sleep away camp during the summer and playing pick up down the park. He said there was nothing else. There was no AAU back then. Same with soccer. There was no club soccer back then.

My younger son was a very good athlete in middle school playing soccer, basketball and baseball. I told him that if he wanted to play in high school he was going to have to play AAU/club in sports or he wouldn't make the teams in high school because other kids would specialize and pass him by in ability. He was offered a spot on a club soccer team but their season went from mid-August to the end of May with just a break between Thanksgiving and the first of the year. He decided against it because he said he wouldn't be able to play any other sports if he played club soccer. He's played AAU baseball and that is the only sport he still plays.

Unless you're just an awesome athlete almost every varsity level athlete at our high school specializes in their sport and plays all year long. And the high school coaches promote this.

One of my son's friends is a great athlete who plays baseball and played basketball through sophomore year. At tryouts for basketball his sophomore year the coach pulled him aside and told him he needed to choose between basketball and baseball. He said if you're going to play basketball for him he needed you to be devoted to the sport all year long. He wanted you to play AAU in the spring and fall and play in a summer league with the team. How can you possibly do that and play other sports? His parents were livid. The kid quit basketball after sophomore year and now just plays baseball.

There just aren't many 3 sport athletes in high school varsity sports any more. Football is interesting because they don't ask you to do anything in the sport offseason except work out. I can only think of a a handful of boys in my son's junior class who play 3 varsity sports. And some of the sports are like cross country, wrestling, golf, etc. which don't force you to play all year long. In our high school if you want to play soccer, basketball and baseball it's almost mandatory you play all year long. And that's just wrong.

 

[superjohn]

Personal experience? Were you the kid or the parent?

No but it's very rare for kids to get full D1 rides for sports and even more rare they grow up and make a lot of money in their chosen sport.

It did apply to one of my best friends growing up. His dad got him playing basketball 24/7 from a young age. His dad played college ball and was 6'3 or so and the mom was 6'0 so their pedictrician told them the son would be like 6'8.

We would all be playing at the local park or gym and his dad would show up and take him to the other end of the court and make him shoot hundreds of ft's. They made basketball his whole life and even got crazy enough with it that they basically floated the idea to my uncle if their son could live with our uncle and go to St. Anthony's to play for Bob Hurley. The truth was he wasn't good enough to play there and my uncle thought they were nuts for entertaining the idea. End result after traveling around the country playing in a million tournaments and camps he only grew to 6'2 and wound up playing D3 ball and quit because he was totally burned out and wanted a social life. To his credit he always had a great relationship with his parents, don't think this is the case with a lot of these situations.

 

[intlzncster]

Reading this article while sitting at physical therapy session for my freshman daughter's post shoulder surgery.

Young athletes confront pressure to specialize in a single sport, despite risks - Hartford Courant

Some good perspectives from both sides of the argument.
Randy Edsall makes a good point about recruiting kids who play different sports and using different muscle groups. It is a bit ironic though considering Uconn's football players are generally less athletic than their opponents. To be fair several of his recruited players were NFL combine warriors and freakishly off the charts good athletes.

The specialization affects some athletes more than others and can be regional based on sports schedule.

A couple of examples.

My daughter plays volleyball which is a fall sport in Florida. State championships generally end by mid-December. In early December tryouts for travel/club teams start and tournaments go Jan-Apr. AAU tryouts are May and AAU I'd Jun/Jul. Summer conditioning for the HS season also starts in June and I'd 3 days a week of sport specific training (This is actually the best time of year since the facility trains HS through pro level athletes in multiple sports. They know their stuff). Also during summer are two mandatory summer camps and then tryouts for HS are first week of August. Lather, rinse, repeat. By the time many of these girls are seniors in HS or in college their bodies are shot.
Second example is football. Son is playing for first time as a HS senior Seasonal sport but there is no winter football. Many of the players move to basketball, indoor track or other sports. Yes, there is 4 day a week weight training but you are building muscles and using body differently than games. Spring ball is two weeks and then summer camps are done in helmets and shorts. No full contact or full speed for 8 months a year.
Baseball is real bad down south. It's literally year round. There have been some good rules regarding pitch count and days of rest but these kids play 10-11 months startingno later than age 10.
Lacrosse is starting to pick up and take some soccer talent away and their seasons overlap. You caniay both.
Swimming? Year round?
Track and Field and Cross Country? Year round.

Another benefit of the multisport athlete was leading and following. Some athletes were good enough to betop dog in everything. Most kids were better at onesport and a filler in the others. That allows them to learn when to lead, when to follow, understand equal amounts of work and effort can lead to differing results, being coached by different coaches with different styles, cross over friends from the sports and a bunch of other life skills. Specialization puts you with the same group for 6-8 years while body and brain develops. Not a fan.

My high school baseball program in CT was year round as well.

Not many 2 sport athletes either.

I would have gone nuts. I played 3 (soccer/hockey/lax) up until sophomore year of highschool, when I moved to 2.5*. Sometimes I doubled up playing soccer during other seasons on top.

*I substituted real hockey, for pond hockey. We had a league. There were four big ponds in our town and each pond got a team. Plus we had a fifth team called The Stoners who got high before every game. Some of my best memories form High School were these pond hockey sessions. WE still talk about it to this day.

Fun is being thrown away to the god of competitiveness.

For the record, playing soccer made me so much better with other sports. Same with hockey and lacrosse. The ambidextrous-ness and Ambipedal-ness of these sports added to an overall level of coordination that I believe helped (and still does) in many things.

It bled over to sports I enjoy now like surfing, snowboarding, and disc golf. And I continue to play soccer.

 

[CL82]

Exactly.

If you just like soccer, play it a bit and do other stuff.

Don’t just run around the soccer field for 10 months.

Soccer is a highly undervalued sport. Soccer players have stamina, "spurtability", and understand angles and pursuit.

 

[Paesano]

I would like to add a few comments to this discussion based on my own experience with my youngest son. I will start out by saying something that I KNOW will get a really negative response. If your kid is an exceptional student, but not an exceptional athlete, consider guiding them away from sports entirely. By exceptional student, I mean a kid that will be well within the top half of applicants that get accepted to Ivy and Ivy-level schools. By exceptional athlete I mean a kid that can get recruited to play their top sport at an Ivy or a top academic D3 school like Chicago or Williams.

Here is why. This push to get kids to "specialize" does not apply only to sports. There is a term in current day college admissions called "pointed applicants". It means an applicant that was exceptional and totally "passionate" about something. A recruited athlete is a pointed applicant. A kid that is on the national Science Olympiad or Math Olympiad team is pointed. A nationally ranked ballroom dancer is pointed. You get the point. The top schools are starting to admit that they no longer want well rounded applicants. A kid that is a three sport athlete and is good at all of them but not able to be recruited for any of them is not interesting to colleges. They already have their athletes in the form of their recruited athletes. The schools say that they want well rounded classes, not well rounded applicants. So if your "passion" was sports but you aren't a recruited athlete, you wasted your time from the standpoint of getting into a top school. If your kid wants to play three sports but could be recruited if they "specialized", well, you have a decision to make. Let the kid do what he/she wants or encourage the kid to do what they need to do to get their foot in the door of an elite college. If your kid has no chance at being at least a recruited D3 athlete, but wants to play sports, you have a decision to make. Tell them to dump sports and do something that will get them into a top school or let them do what they want.

This goes for everything a kid does in high school. Gone are the days when schools liked well rounded kids. Now they want well rounded classes full of kids that "specialized" or "focused" in one thing each. Really, what they want is a bunch of kids whose big accomplishments are impressive enough to put into their incoming class profile. Admissions offices are full of virtue signaling narcissists now. The better the school, the worse it is. There are thousands of kids who are the best player on their high school basketball or soccer or baseball or football teams. There are thousands of kids that are team captains. There are thousands of kids that are valedictorians. There are thousands of kids that score at or above a 1550 on their SAT. There are thousands of kids that are student council or class presidents. There are thousands of kids that volunteer hundreds of hours in their communities. Back in the day, a kid that was all of those things was the golden unicorn of applicants. Not many kids are ALL of those things. But, now, they are not interesting. Now you need to have played your instrument at Carnegie Hall or you need to have done published cancer research or you need to have started a million dollar business and so on. If you have done something they can brag about, you can have weaknesses in other areas. Recruited athletes and kids with other "hooks" I haven't even touched on yet can have major weaknesses in other areas.

Advising your children is way more complex than I ever anticipated. The advice you give depends on where they fall academically. It depends on where they fall athletically. It depends on where they fall artistically. It depends on whether or not they can be nationally ranked at SOMETHING. It depends on their level of maturity and self discipline. It depends on their competitiveness. It depends on your family finances. It depends on your family's logistical hurdles. And, oh yeah, it depends on what will make them happy. That last one was what drove a lot of our advice to our kids. Frankly, it is becoming rare and I am not sure it was the right thing to do.

 

[QDOG5]

@superjohn, I hear ya. Believe me out here in the burbs it can get pretty ridiculous. The funny thing is the dads that I know that played college sports are for the most part the easiest going on their kids. They know despite all the coaching the kids receive the desire has to come from the individual and every kid is not going to have the same mental makeup.

 

[superjohn]

Soccer is a highly undervalued sport. Soccer players have stamina, "spurtability", and understand angles and pursuit.

Not exactly undervalued, it's by far the most popular sport in the world.

 

[intlzncster]

Not exactly undervalued, it's by far the most popular sport in the world.

Yup. 'Underappreciated in the US' would have been a better phrase.