Dammit, it's gonna get worse...

[ctchamps]

What I meant was not that Second Mile was a child abuse ring, but that Madden in that interview to WEEI where this info comes from was lauded as the guy who unearthed the Sandusky story months ago, as long as 2 years ago, and no one noticed, so we should listen to Madden because he has the inside scoop. Madden tuted his own self in a similar fashion in that interview.

All I said is that I found dozens if not 100 articles written on this from long ago. The only change this week was the PSU cover-up, the previous articles were about Sandusky's molestations That much has been known for a long while.

Thanks for the clarification. Have you observed any articles regarding a child abuse ring that you think have merit to them, even if they might be unsubstantiated and ultimately (hopefully) prove bogus?

 

[cryjeremiah]

Is it really that far fetched that an organization such as this one, would consider any speaker a part of their "advisory board" even if they don't let that speaker know they will be advertised as that?

i'm with you Santini, it's not far-fetched at all. If you are a celebrity or a notable person, I'm sure your name shows up all over the place without your permission. I mean, Markie Mark Wahlburg's name is on that list of advisors.
Especially something as shady as this, they would stick any names they could on there to make it seem legit. It's pretty basic con-man type moves. Let's be honest about this, pedophiles are the worlds worst and most destructive con-men.

 

[Husky68]

He sounded like a loudmouth blowhard to me.

And, not that many people believed him? Huh? That's the kind of crazy bloviating I'm talking about it. It was reported all over PA. Why wouldn't they believe it? It's not like HE ha a scoop. He didn't.

Dennis and Callahan, as any Boston fan knows, are also blowhard know-nothings. As for the coaches who must have known, why did they stick around? Larry Johnson was offered a Big10 DC job at higher pay just this past summer. He knew? If so, why did he stick around? How many other PSU coaches have had such offers over the last few years? I'm sure there were inklings about Sandusky, rumors and such, but these guys didn't KNOW anything, or else they would have hitched a lifeboat off the Titanic.

You are sure, hmm. Are you sure what JoePa knew based on his subsequent actions? I'm not sure even after hearing him speak I understand what he knew. Yet you know what these other coaches knew based on their actions. Why did the GA stay around 9 years given "what he knew", maybe a big promotion made him "know less" - where was his Titanic move? And you are saying that none of the other coaches "asked" the GA "waz up", even after the grand jury was convened?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

What I meant was not that Second Mile was a child abuse ring, but that Madden in that interview to WEEI where this info comes from was lauded as the guy who unearthed the Sandusky story months ago, as long as 2 years ago, and no one noticed, so we should listen to Madden because he has the inside scoop. Madden tuted his own self in a similar fashion in that interview.

All I said is that I found dozens if not 100 articles written on this from long ago. The only change this week was the PSU cover-up, the previous articles were about Sandusky's molestations That much has been known for a long while.

Upstater,

You need to give up the fight here. Every time you say it is not as bad as we think, it turns out to be 10x as bad. There is absolutely nothing that would surprise me anymore on this scandal, so I don't get why you continue to defend anyone involved.

 

[mattp]

There are some pretty high-profile names on that honorary board list. Wonder how long it'll be before their names disappear.

it's an honorary board. i imagine anyone of any notoriety that's ever donated money to, or worked on behalf of the charity is on that list. each of the people on that list are probably on dozens of similar boards b/c well paid public figures tend to be involved in a lot of charities. the fact that they removed his name is a little fishy.

edit:after reading Holtz' comments it seems like that is the case. being on that list doesn't mean anything. having yourself taken off the list is odd but JoPa may have had nothing to do with having his name taken off.

 

[upstater]

Upstater,

You need to give up the fight here. Every time you say it is not as bad as we think, it turns out to be 10x as bad. There is absolutely nothing that would surprise me anymore on this scandal, so I don't get why you continue to defend anyone involved.

I defend child molestation, that's why.

 

[upstater]

You are sure, hmm. Are you sure what JoePa knew based on his subsequent actions? I'm not sure even after hearing him speak I understand what he knew. Yet you know what these other coaches knew based on their actions. Why did the GA stay around 9 years given "what he knew", maybe a big promotion made him "know less" - where was his Titanic move? And you are saying that none of the other coaches "asked" the GA "waz up", even after the grand jury was convened?

We know what JoePa knew. He thought it was fondling, and in his way, that's OK. All this is NEW information that came out this week. Do I think it's plausible that the GA never told his fellow coaches what he saw? Um, it's plausible. I don't see the point in keeping the coaches around, but if they'd known, they would have been gone. As recently as this summer. I'll say it again. I knew about Sandusky a while back from the news and from PSU posters on the boards saying that he was a pedophile as early as 2007. The new stuff is what Paterno, McQueary, Curley and Schultz were hiding.

You think that was an open secret? If it was, I want to know why so many coaches committed career suicide when they didn't have to.

As for MM leaving, for where? He's not exactly a mover and shaker.

 

[upstater]

Thanks for the clarification. Have you observed any articles regarding a child abuse ring that you think have merit to them, even if they might be unsubstantiated and ultimately (hopefully) prove bogus?

None. Never heard of it. The only thing that makes it plausible is that Sandusky was so brazen about it. one incident was in a high school conference room. It wouldn't be surprised to hear that others were in on it.

 

[noeynox]

I defend child molestation, that's why.

Ugh, I know you're being sarcastic, but don't even kid like that bro.

This is the worst situation in the history of sports organizations it seems. It appears some good people have gone down to the disgusting actions of a pedophile, and the inactions of people that could have stopped him a long time ago.

 

[UCHuskies08]

This wouldn't surprise me at all. I couldn't come up with a reason for JoePa to not have done anything, EXCEPT - if there were something even more sinister going on that he felt had to be covered up at all costs.

 

[upstater]

Ugh, I know you're being sarcastic, but don't even kid like that bro.

This is the worst situation in the history of sports organizations it seems. It appears some good people have gone down to the disgusting actions of a pedophile, and the inactions of people that could have stopped him a long time ago.

This is my only possible response to nelson. any other will not satisfy the freak.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Ugh, I know you're being sarcastic, but don't even kid like that bro.

This is the worst situation in the history of sports organizations it seems. It appears some good people have gone down to the disgusting actions of a pedophile, and the inactions of people that could have stopped him a long time ago.

I have not seen evidence of good people going down so far, just Paterno and some members of Penn State's administration.

 

[upstater]

This wouldn't surprise me at all. I couldn't come up with a reason for JoePa to not have done anything, EXCEPT - if there were something even more sinister going on that he felt had to be covered up at all costs.

there's more to the story for the simple fact that law enforcement was involved in the 1998 event and the case was never dropped.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is my only possible response to nelson. any other will not satisfy the freak.

Remind me again, which of us is defending the coverup of a pedophile?

 

[upstater]

Remind me again, which of us is defending the coverup of a pedophile?

Well, since I don't defend the coverups of pedophiles, it must be you.

 

[Kgun7]

Ugh, I know you're being sarcastic, but don't even kid like that bro.

This is the worst situation in the history of sports organizations it seems. It appears some good people have gone down to the disgusting actions of a pedophile, and the inactions of people that could have stopped him a long time ago.

The only good people were the victims ... everyone else was part of the cover-up.

McQueary's name and reputation were going to be immortalized one way or another the second he turned the corner and looked into that shower. For a few moments he controlled how the world would remember him. Too bad we aren't talking about that young, brave, aspiring GA that stood up to a monster of a pedophile and a senile dictator...

 

[Husky68]

We know what JoePa knew. He thought it was fondling, and in his way, that's OK. All this is NEW information that came out this week. Do I think it's plausible that the GA never told his fellow coaches what he saw? Um, it's plausible. I don't see the point in keeping the coaches around, but if they'd known, they would have been gone. As recently as this summer. I'll say it again. I knew about Sandusky a while back from the news and from PSU posters on the boards saying that he was a pedophile as early as 2007. The new stuff is what Paterno, McQueary, Curley and Schultz were hiding.

You think that was an open secret? If it was, I want to know why so many coaches committed career suicide when they didn't have to.

As for MM leaving, for where? He's not exactly a mover and shaker.

You keep changing the level of generalization in your comments and responses.

"We know what JoePa knew. He thought it was fondling..." Huh! You know what JoePa "said", you don't know what he "knew". Kind of like a famous man once said "I never had sex with that woman ..."

All the coaches would have left if they had "known" yet when the one who "absolutely knew" didn't leave for 9 years and was promoted it was because "As for MM leaving, for where? He's not exactly a mover and shaker". The one guy I would be absolutely (and wrongly) sure would leave no later than 2009 is MM, given his "inklings". Even the Pres of the University, given his written response yesterday supporting AD and VP Finance thought he would get through this; my view is so did the head coach in waiting prior to last Friday (i.e., no matter what he knew or had inkling about he thought since he kept his pants up and did not admit to actually seeing any criminal sodomy acts, that he was ok and would be next head coach at PSU).

Since I looked up child molester for another post, it also defined pedophile. Some criminal law site. It noted (more or less) that pedophiles "may or may not" also be child molesters and child molesters may or may not be pedophiles. Not sure what the PSU posters meant calling him a pedophile, did they mean child molester, the more specific type of child molester that commits sodomy on ten year old boys, or what? If that was the case in 2007, boy this was so common knowledge that I'm not inclined to be giving MANY PEOPLE IN HAPPY VALLEY a pass on this. I would use a WW II comparison about a COUNTRY of people who "didn't want to know" but even this isn't bad enough to compare to that.

 

[metsfan2323]

The only good people were the victims ... everyone else was part of the cover-up.

McQueary's name and reputation were going to be immortalized one way or another the second he turned the corner and looked into that shower. For a few moments he controlled how the world would remember him. Too bad we aren't talking about that young, brave, aspiring GA that stood up to a monster of a pedophile and a senile dictator...

I think people are placing too much blame on McQueary. To make a corporate comparison he was a mail room guy who reported criminal wrong doing of a senior executive to the CEO and the CEO chose to do nothing. Is it the mail room guys fault that the organization is now destroyed?

McQueary deserves a chance to explain his actions and i'm sure he will get it.

 

[storrsbred1]

IF, IF there is way more to this story, it could be devastating to a lot of "big" names. Who know who is a deviant, family man or not?

This cover up is sickening. This should not be about Paterno. The only thing I hear is gratuitous mention of the kids before the defense of how great a man blah, blah, blah.

That scum red-head should be out of there. Don't understand why he's not.

 

[CL82]

And I heard that Joe Pa has been on the board the entire time.

Wow. Very bad, if accurate.

 

[noeynox]

I think people are placing too much blame on McQueary. To make a corporate comparison he was a mail room guy who reported wrong doing of a senior executive to the CEO and the CEO chose to do nothing. Is it the mail room guys fault that the organization is now destroyed?

Except, he witnessed probably the most hideous crime imaginable short of murder, maybe even including a cold blooded murder, because the victims here were probably victimized over and over again. Who knows if some of his victims have gone on to drugs or killing themselves over what they have experienced. McQueary was 28 years old. There should have been no calling daddy, and no agreeing to tell Paterno what he saw. An immediate call to police would have ended the torment years earlier.

In regards to Paterno, it is hard for me to fathom that he would allow this to continue to happen. As it is now being reported that Paterno didn't even address Sandusky regarding what McQuary allegedly saw, I could only believe that people at PSU knew about this before then, probably even predating the 1998 incident. I can't believe that preserving the reputation of the school and the program was the motivation for keeping it quiet. These are educated, smart people. They had to have known this would have come out someday, and the longer it went on the worse it would be for the university. Let alone the fact that morally you had a serial rapist of young boys on your campus, using your facilities to commit these acts and no one thought to put a stop to this? Sandusky was ON CAMPUS last week? This makes zero sense to me.

 

[metsfan2323]

Except, he witnessed probably the most hideous crime imaginable short of murder, maybe even including a cold blooded murder, because the victims here were probably victimized over and over again. Who knows if some of his victims have gone on to drugs or killing themselves over what they have experienced. McQueary was 28 years old. There should have been no calling daddy, and no agreeing to tell Paterno what he saw. An immediate call to police would have ended the torment years earlier.

In regards to Paterno, it is hard for me to fathom that he would allow this to continue to happen. As it is now being reported that Paterno didn't even address Sandusky regarding what McQuary allegedly saw, I could only believe that people at PSU knew about this before then, probably even predating the 1998 incident. I can't believe that preserving the reputation of the school and the program was the motivation for keeping it quiet. These are educated, smart people. They had to have known this would have come out someday, and the longer it went on the worse it would be for the university. Let alone the fact that morally you had a serial rapist of young boys on your campus, using your facilities to commit these acts and no one thought to put a stop to this? Sandusky was ON CAMPUS last week? This makes zero sense to me.

True but remember McQueary witnessed this in 2002, the police already investigated Sandusky in 1998 and covered it up. What if McQueary received a threatening phone call? McQueary deserves a chance to explain his actions.

 

[mattp]

I think people are placing too much blame on McQueary. To make a corporate comparison he was a mail room guy who reported criminal wrong doing of a senior executive to the CEO and the CEO chose to do nothing. Is it the mail room guys fault that the organization is now destroyed?

McQueary deserves a chance to explain his actions and i'm sure he will get it.

the bottom line is McQueary walked in on a rape and didn't stop it, or report it to the police. what else is there to explain? he said he walked in on Sandusky raping a 10 year old. his first action should have been to protect that 10 year old by kicking the old man's ass around the locker room before calling the police. instead he witness a rape and did nothing to stop it when he very easily could have.

i'm more inclined to give JoePa a pass because we don't know exactly what he knew yet. if all he heard was a rumor and it was investigated and found to have no merit, he did nothing wrong. McQueary witnessed it so there's no question.

 

[CL82]

the bottom line is McQueary walked in on a rape and didn't stop it, or report it to the police. what else is there to explain? he said he thought he walked in on Sandusky raping a 10 year old. his first action should have been to protect that 10 year old by kicking the old man's ass around the locker room before calling the police. instead he witness a rape and did nothing to stop it when he very easily could have.

Agree.

 

[metsfan2323]

The police new about Sandusky in 1998. There is a dead District Attorney. We know very little at this point.

 

[freescooter]

I don't know what the 1998 police investigation did or did not reveal, but it seems that they didn't have enough information to proscecute, or at least didn't pursue it. NOne the less Sanduky was asked to leave. So far that seems to make sense. Who knows what went on behind the scenes...or who had suspicisions...but after the 2002 incident, someone should have done something, in particular McQueary, since he had the most direct knowledge. To me,though, Joe had an obligation to go well beyond notifying the AD...at a minimum, he should have advised McQueary to contact the police, since agian, McQueary was the one who had the direct knowledge of the crime. One might also ask what the hell McQueary's old man was thinking...I can imagine my own father if I came to him with that story...he'd be driving me to the police station, calling 911 on the way...I'd like to think I'd do the same.

 

[metsfan2323]

Two police officers heard Sandusky confess! Law enforcement chose not to prosecute Sandusky. Law enforcement failed. Why? We don't know yet. The FBI needs to get involved in this case because police usually don't police themselves.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I don't buy Mr. Paterno thought it was just fondling....whatever "just" fondling means.

Here's the scenario: A grad assistant, and former quarterback, shows up at the house of the most influential man in town (if not the state) and says something to the effect of: "Coach, I saw your good friend and right-hand man of 3 plus decades in the shower fondling a little boy." And Paterno doesn't ask, "What exactly did you see? What is so shocking that you and your father are here on a Saturday Morning to tell me in person?".....he never asks for details?? Or you have to believe he asked and a grad assistant sitting in the living room of an icon (who happens to be his boss) refused to offer any details or answer the question. BULL CHIPS!!!

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

There are rumors out there now that not only was the 2nd Mile Charity being used as a 'child molestation pimp shop' for rich donors, but there are reports that are surfacing that there may be evidence that 2nd mile was funneling money back into the Penn St football program. If true, it would explain why Penn St would allow the charity to remain involved with the program after multiple incidents with Sandusky. Wow!

If true, this is about to completely blow up! If true, Penn St may have to completely shut down the football program at least temporarily.

 

[upstater]

You keep changing the level of generalization in your comments and responses.

"We know what JoePa knew. He thought it was fondling..." Huh! You know what JoePa "said", you don't know what he "knew". Kind of like a famous man once said "I never had sex with that woman ..."

All the coaches would have left if they had "known" yet when the one who "absolutely knew" didn't leave for 9 years and was promoted it was because "As for MM leaving, for where? He's not exactly a mover and shaker". The one guy I would be absolutely (and wrongly) sure would leave no later than 2009 is MM, given his "inklings". Even the Pres of the University, given his written response yesterday supporting AD and VP Finance thought he would get through this; my view is so did the head coach in waiting prior to last Friday (i.e., no matter what he knew or had inkling about he thought since he kept his pants up and did not admit to actually seeing any criminal sodomy acts, that he was ok and would be next head coach at PSU).

Since I looked up child molester for another post, it also defined pedophile. Some criminal law site. It noted (more or less) that pedophiles "may or may not" also be child molesters and child molesters may or may not be pedophiles. Not sure what the PSU posters meant calling him a pedophile, did they mean child molester, the more specific type of child molester that commits sodomy on ten year old boys, or what? If that was the case in 2007, boy this was so common knowledge that I'm not inclined to be giving MANY PEOPLE IN HAPPY VALLEY a pass on this. I would use a WW II comparison about a COUNTRY of people who "didn't want to know" but even this isn't bad enough to compare to that.

Huh. Interesting.