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CT High School Football...

JMick said:
St Joe's in S is almost as pathetic as capital prep playing in the CSC. The difference is that St Joe's can't control their playoff division. Cap prep could easily ask to join the CCC.

The CIAC really needs to move to the district model and then play with the numbers for schools of choice. It also makes no sense when a Class M school plays games against L or LL teams in the regular season and then plays other M schools in the playoffs. If you're playing in the S,M,L, or LL playoffs you should be playing the same size schools in the regular season too
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I respectfully disagree, it clearly separates the men from the boys regardless of school size, and it is more than fair. When a class S school beats a LL school they get a ton of playoff points. Historically some of the greatest teams in state history were class S schools, Bloomfield in the late 90's and early 2000's, Stamford Catholic back in the 60's, Derby in the early 70's, Ansonia in several years. Ansonia actually petitioned the CIAC to allow it (a class S school) to compete in the LL division of the state playoffs some years ago, and their petition was granted. The result was one of the greatest games in state history, the LL final between Amity High and Ansonia (lead by the great QB Sandy Ocsieki). Great class S programs need to be recognized, and they are in the state of Connecticut when warranted, according to the final New Haven Register State poll. I don't think that would be the case under the district model.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
I respectfully disagree, it clearly separates the men from the boys regardless of school size, and it is more than fair. When a class S school beats a LL school they get a ton of playoff points. Historically some of the greatest teams in state history were class S schools, Bloomfield in the late 90's and early 2000's, Stamford Catholic back in the 60's, Derby in the early 70's, Ansonia in several years. Ansonia actually petitioned the CIAC to allow it (a class S school) to compete in the LL division of the state playoffs some years ago, and their petition was granted. The result was one of the greatest games in state history, the LL final between Amity High and Ansonia (lead by the great QB Sandy Ocsieki). Great class S programs need to be recognized, and they are in the state of Connecticut when warranted, according to the final New Haven Register State poll. I don't think that would be the case under the district model.
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It's not logical. If you are playing against Class L teams in the playoffs, you should be playing Class L teams during the year. If you are a LL school that only plays M and S schools all year, then why are you making the LL playoffs? Especially if you haven't even beaten a LL team?
 
JMick said:
It's not logical. If you are playing against Class L teams in the playoffs, you should be playing Class L teams during the year. If you are a LL school that only plays M and S schools all year, then why are you making the LL playoffs? Especially if you haven't even beaten a LL team?
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Of course it's logical, LL teams that did that (only play smaller schools) probably would not make the LL playoffs because they would get so few playoff points, even if they went undefeated. That's built into the CIAC playoff point system. When St Joe's beat LL New Canaan, early in the season they got a boatload of playoff points, and if New Canaan beats Darien in November St Joe's will get even more points. The CIAC playoff point system is fair because school size is an integral part of it.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
Of course it's logical, LL teams that did that (only play smaller schools) probably would not make the LL playoffs because they would get so few playoff points, even if they went undefeated. That's built into the CIAC playoff point system.
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no, it's not. a LL team that goes undefeated against all S schools (within their conference) will still make the playoffs.

you cannot gain less than 100 playoff points for beating a team in your own conference, no matter the size discrepancy. Newtown defeating Notre-Dame Fairfield gets 100 points. Newtown defeating Ansonia would get 80 points.
 
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JMick said:
no, it's not. a LL team that goes undefeated against all S schools (within their conference) will still make the playoffs.

you cannot gain less than 100 playoff points for beating a team in your own conference, no matter the size discrepancy. Newtown defeating Notre-Dame Fairfield gets 100 points. Newtown defeating Ansonia would get 80 points.
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No you're wrong, look at schools like Naugatuck and Seymour in the NVL, until recently those were Class L schools and in a decent year went 8-2 or 9-1, but they never or very rarely made the playoffs because all their games were against mostly class S and M schools like Ansonia, Derby, Oxford, Wilby, etc, and on the very rare occasion when they did squeak into the L playoffs they got their @ ss kicked.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
No you're wrong, look at schools like Naugatuck and Seymour in the NVL, until recently those were Class L schools and in a decent year went 8-2 or 9-1, but they never or very rarely made the playoffs because all their games were against mostly class S and M schools like Ansonia, Derby, Oxford, Wilby, etc, and on the very rare occasion when they did squeak into the L playoffs they got their @ ss kicked.
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@JMick is correct on the playoff point system. The reason Naugatuck at 9-1 wouldn’t make the playoffs in those years was because they didn’t pick up enough bonus points from the teams they beat and losing to a 9-0 Ansonia on Thanksgiving is usually what killed them. Instead of getting 190 points [100 (win) + 90 (bonus for each Ansonia win)], they get zero.
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Consequently, teams in the SCC (D1) and FCIAC have declined requests to play Ansonia because the risk is greater then the reward. I was on the Ansonia staff in 2007 when a call was made to Greenwich. Both teams were coming off state titles in 2006. Greenwich declined and traveled to Naples, FL to play where they lost a close one. Greenwich went undefeated in CT and won another Class LL title. Ansonia coasted to the Class S playoffs where they met Jack Cochran’s vaunted New London team, led by Jordan Reed. They were mammoths upfront and were the state's highest scoring team. JC went on record saying NL was 4 TDs better then Ansonia. Ansonia dominated from start to finish winning 35-0, and earned the #1 ranking.

People bash Ansonia year after year saying they play no one. The fact is, under the current playoff point system, no one wants to play them. It’s not that they’re worried they’ll lose (which is possible), but a LL or L school would only get 70 or 80 points for a win before bonus points. Losing 20 to 30 extra points could be the difference in making the playoffs in those divisions.
 
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kris1 said:
@JMick is correct on the playoff point system. The reason Naugatuck at 9-1 wouldn’t make the playoffs in those years was because they didn’t pick up enough bonus points from the teams they beat and losing to a 9-0 Ansonia on Thanksgiving is usually what killed them. Instead of get 190 points [100 (win) + 90 (bonus for each Ansonia win)], they get zero.
View attachment 25121
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No he's wrong when he said my original post was not logical. Who cares about logical, what I care about is what's fair, and the present system is fair to the smaller schools like Ansonia, Bloomfield, and St Joe's, on a statewide basis when the final Register poll comes out. In the district model those great class S programs would suffocate. If they can play with the bigger schools and beat them then let them.
 
huskyrob1 said:
No he's wrong when he said my original post was not logical. Who cares about logical, what I care about is what's fair, and the present system is fair to the smaller schools like Ansonia, Bloomfield, and St Joe's, on a statewide basis when the final Register poll comes out. In the district model those great class S programs would suffocate. If they can play with the bigger schools and beat them then let them.
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I don’t disagree with your point on the small powerhouse programs being suffocated in the district model. That’s probably part of the reasons things haven’t moved in that direction. @JMick was correct on the point system, though.
 
kris1 said:
Consequently, teams in the SCC (D1) and FCIAC have declined requests to play Ansonia because the risk is greater then the reward. I was on the Ansonia staff in 2007 when a call was made to Greenwich. Both teams were coming off state titles in 2006. Greenwich declined and traveled to Naples, FL to play where they lost a close one. Greenwich went undefeated in CT and won another Class LL title. Ansonia coasted to the Class S playoffs and where the met Jack Cochran’s vaunted New London team, led by Jordan Reed. They were mammoths upfront and were the state's highest scoring team. JC went on record saying NL was 4 TDs better then Ansonia. Ansonia dominated from start to finish winning 35-0, and earned the #1 ranking.

People bash Ansonia year after year saying they play no one. The fact is, under the current playoff point system, no one wants to play them. It’s not that they’re worried they’ll lose (which is possible), but a LL or L school would only get 70 or 80 points for a win before bonus points. Losing 20 to 30 extra points could be the difference in making the playoffs in those divisions.
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I don't think that's entirely true Kris, didn't both Newtown and Masuk (LL schools) play Ansonia a couple years ago? As I recall both were great games.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
I don't think that's entirely true Kris, didn't both Newtown and Masuk (LL schools) play Ansonia a couple years ago? As I recall both were great games.
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They did play in the SWC/NVL Challenge. Ansonia beat Masuk easily in 2013. Newtown beat Ansonia in a close one in 2014. However, the scheduling was based where teams ranked in their league the previous year. So, it wasn’t like they had a choice.
 
huskyrob1 said:
No he's wrong when he said my original post was not logical. Who cares about logical, what I care about is what's fair, and the present system is fair to the smaller schools like Ansonia, Bloomfield, and St Joe's, on a statewide basis when the final Register poll comes out. In the district model those great class S programs would suffocate. If they can play with the bigger schools and beat them then let them.
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??? If anything Ansonia would gain more respect moving out of the NVL. 8 game district conference schedule +2 free games. Winner of each district goes to playoffs and you get wildcards. Done, solves all the problems.
 
JMick said:
??? If anything Ansonia would gain more respect moving out of the NVL. 8 game district conference schedule +2 free games. Winner of each district goes to playoffs and you get wildcards. Done, solves all the problems.
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I agree, but they don’t have the budget or the other sports that are necessary to join say the SCC, which geographically would be the best fit.
 
kris1 said:
I agree, but they don’t have the budget or the other sports that are necessary to join say the SCC, which geographically would be the best fit.
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With the district model they wouldn't have to. Their SOS would probably go up just by playing an S schedule lol.
 
Anybody see Will Levis in person? If so how has he looked?
 
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kris1 said:
I agree, but they don’t have the budget or the other sports that are necessary to join say the SCC, which geographically would be the best fit.
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Agreed, in small States like CT it is a geographic model. Leagues have a mix of school sizes with some traditional rivalries going back one hundred years or more. District models only work well for very large states, smaller schools get screwed in small States that have district models, and as you pointed out in your previous post is probably the reason why things have remained the way they are. It would be very unfair to smaller schools in terms of state wide recognition and long rivalries with larger neighboring schools if done away with might even have an economic impact in certain towns. A district model in CT would be a disaster, school athletic budgets would also be stretched thin.
 
huskyrob1 said:
Agreed, in small States like CT it is a geographic model. Leagues have a mix of school sizes with some traditional rivalries going back one hundred years or more. District models only work well for very large states, smaller schools get screwed in small States that have district models, and as you pointed out in your previous post is probably the reason why things have remained the way they are. It would be very unfair to smaller schools in terms of state wide recognition and long rivalries with larger neighboring schools if done away with might even have an economic impact in certain towns. A district model in CT would be a disaster, school athletic budgets would also be stretched thin.
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This just doesn't make sense.
Do 9 team regions and play 8 conference games. Then get two flex options in the schedule for your rivalry game and a marquee matchup.

You're worried about Ansonia when we should be looking in the best interest of schools that aren't power houses and can't compete against 100 player rosters when they have 22 kids suited up for varsity.
 
JMick said:
This just doesn't make sense.
Do 9 team regions and play 8 conference games. Then get two flex options in the schedule for your rivalry game and a marquee matchup.

You're worried about Ansonia when we should be looking in the best interest of schools that aren't power houses and can't compete against 100 player rosters when they have 22 kids suited up for varsity.
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Name me one small school in the state that has complained about not being able to compete against larger schools with 100 player rosters!!!!
I've never heard of Warde, Ludlowe, Trinity Catholic, or St Joe's complain about playing Danbury, Greenwich, or Trumbull. Danbury is the largest school in the state and TC and St Joe's kicks their @ ss every year.
 
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For the record, Derby left the SCC and joined NVL because they felt they were at a competitive disadvantage against bigger schools. They also though they’d fare better in a weaker NVL, playing against teams who’s socioeconomic and geographic make up we’re similar to theirs. That hasn’t quite worked out the way they’d hoped. They’re still toward the bottom of the league.

When you look at the traditional powers in CTHSFB, to me it comes down to coaching. Yes, the larger schools have an advantage in numbers, but there are still large schools that suck at football, like Danbury. When you look at New Canaan, Darien, Ansonia, St Joe’s, Windsor, Southington, West Haven, Shelton, even Hillhouse. They’re consistently in the mix because of the continuity in the coaching staffs. There may be small changes within the staff but the way they do things doesn’t change. Sure, they have great football minds and they prepare their kids as well as anyone, but they demand the most from their kids. They have high expectations every year and they hold their players accountable to that standard. Ansonia, for example, has coaches who have been on the staff for 40-years. Who better to teach kids the tradition of the program, then they guys who started it. It’s becomes part of the culture. The kids understand it and want to live up to that tradition. Not all small schools can compete with (I didn’t say beat) the big boys. You can probably count them on one hand. For the state as a whole, the district model is probably the best option. I think the biggest hurdles with that model have been getting teams to agree to end their traditional Thanksgiving rivalries and how it would impact schools that are already working with limited athletic budgets.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
Name me one small school in the state that has complained about not being able to compete against larger schools with 100 player rosters!!!!
I've never heard of Warde, Ludlowe, Trinity Catholic, or St Joe's complain about playing Danbury, Greenwich, or Trumbull. Danbury is the largest school in the state and TC and St Joe's kicks their @ ss every year.
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Trinity and Joe's recruit kids. They would/should play LL anyway. If your roster has X% of kids from a town other than where the school is located they should be considered LL
 
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JMick said:
Windsor... How many Hartford kids do you think play for them? 10? 15?
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Bloomfield....New London....New Britain....basically, anywhere Jack Cochran has been :D
 


Ansonia led 62-6 at the half. Ansonia’s overall record is now 800-237-57.
 
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