Creighton Post Game thread (merged thread)

[Littlemin]

Time to accept reality! The seniors are just not very good. They were clearly vastly overrated coming out of high school and while they will occasionally have good games, they are just not capable of playing consistently at a high level. Geno has been using smoke and mirrors for the past four years to cover and compensate for their erratic performances. I hate saying that, as I think they are great people but the proof is in the pudding.

Why do you think they were overrated? Fans trusting the ratings as an absolute predictor is where the mistake lies. Players peak at different times, and it is a huge jump in competition from HS to D1. Williams and Ono are good players at this level, not dominant or great, but good.
IMO, from afar, I believe Westbrook’s career has been sabotaged to a large degree by injuries. I could be wrong but I believe she is currently playing hurt.
That is why I am cautious to people predicting how good Fudd is going to be. Not playing because of injuries, especially ones to the legs for extended times, can take its toll, both physically and mentally.
There are many factors that go into performing at this level and fans are very rarely (read, never) privy to all those things. While everyone can see this one, one example I will give is for my absolute favorite player on this team. IMO, if Muhl does not learn to channel her emotion and energy positively she is not going to have nearly the career she is capable of having.
To a degree, I root for and speak of Muhl from personal experience, I was a very similar player, a talented, pass and defense oriented aggressive and HOTHEADED point guard that could not really stay on the court through my junior year of HS. Luckily I had an older player from my town who played at Canisuis and in the ABA that convinced me in the summer between my junior and senior years that I was the problem, not the refs or coaches, and I had a really good senior season and a decent career at the NAIA level in college.
But my real point, players are human beings, not robots, with a myriad of factors affecting basketball development and performance; this notion that they have to perform at levels defined by subjective ratings at an entirely different level of competition or be deemed failures is just silly.

 

[JellyBean]

Did Geno actually use the term "sucked" at the halftime interview?

He sure did. He was thinking of another word, but that word was probably right on the tip of his tongue.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Why do you think they were overrated? Fans trusting the ratings as an absolute predictor is where the mistake lies. Players peak at different times, and it is a huge jump in competition from HS to D1. Williams and Ono are good players at this level, not dominant or great, but good.
IMO, from afar, I believe Westbrook’s career has been sabotaged to a large degree by injuries. I could be wrong but I believe she is currently playing hurt.

I think fans on the board have been a little hard on the seniors here. ONO and CW are good players. They aren't superstars but many are not. I recall a lot of criticism being thrown at Mercedes Russell for not developing at UT and many fans felt it was coaching. That was probably a factor but also rankings are imperfect and not everyone who comes through a program with talent or skill will become an AA or dominant player.

I've said for years I liked Westbrook at UT and was impressed by her then but she isn't a point guard. She wasn't one in Knoxville and isn't one now. She's played it out of necessity and injuries have no doubt impacted her development. Sadly it happens to a lot of young players.

If UConn gets back on track this year and winds up winning a NC it will be because PB comes back and wills them to it. It is certainly a possibility. Before the season started I understood the reason for the high level of optimism about the team and agreed this would be the most talented and deepest UConn team since 2001. Of course injuries have taken a huge toll but it's not as though UConn is out of the mix if people come back healthy.

 

[Ozimoto]

I will simply say it is good to get a win. The 21 day layoff showed. I'm not too concerned about the front court play at the moment. Good to see Aliyah show some flashes of last year's play. Dorka and Olivia were solid. Nice to see Olivia hit those two 17 foot jumpers. Dorka does have some sweet moves around the basket.

Now the guards have to get their act together...

 

[Vowelguy]

I’m not concerned about Nikas fouls — would rather have someone aggressive. Plus I’m sure she was amped up to play.

And part of the problem with lotsa fouls is they put you on the bench — but that was gonna happen anyway since she could only play 15 minutes.

To be clear, I don’t want her to foul at will, but first game back where she’s on limited minutes — aggressiveness is quite fine with me.

 

[meyers7]

Very frustrating game to watch. Not just because of the poor offense. But the refs disrupting the flow with all those "traveling" calls. (I hate when they make something an "emphasis") And then minutes and minutes, just to figure out who the ball went out on. But anyway.

The good

• We actually played a game. After so long off, that's an achievement in itself.
• We won. The most important thing. And after so long off, that's an achievement in itself.
• Muhl was back. Good to see her. Hopefully we start getting players back.
• Good defensive effort. Kept Creighton below most of their averages (pts. FG%, 3pt %, etc.)
• 4 players scoring in double figures

The bad

• Still not shooting very well. 45%/25%.
• More TOs than assists.
• 63 pts against a conference foe
• Out rebounded (but only barely), but still Creighton didn't have any height

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Starting guards:
9 turnovers
3 assists
And there the problem lies.

But the front court was out rebounded by Creighton. Consider that UConn had two players at 6'5", and another, an Olympian no less, at 6'3", yet Creighton with no player taller than 6'1" out rebounded UConn. And also consider that the undersized Creighton team pulled down nearly twice as many offensive rebounds as Connecticut- 13 versus 7.

Edwards picks up three fouls in just 22 minutes on the court.

Once again, ONO plays so "aggressively" that she gets to the free throw line exactly one time. Once!

The problem is with both the front court AND the back court.

 

[hoopsfan22]

I liked Meg Culmo's comment about the traveling calls. She said you want to call it fine, but then don't wonder why no one wants to watch. Or something to that effect.

 

[The deacon]

I doubt it. CW's game vastly improves when Paige comes back. The floor opens up more when Paige is in plus they become more fastbreak oriented as a result more fastbreak opportunities for CW.

Could be that Geno's loyalty will have CW still in the starting lineup when Paige returns, but don't you think that Caroline will benefit equally, or possibly even more so than CW at that time?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

It's probably just dumb luck but I thought Caroline would be our 2nd best player from day one. When she started getting shots off, even though she missed, it just confirmed it for me. She's the same player I saw in her high school videos. She's the total package and if we do have any chance to win it all she will be a key. She's a plus defender, plus rebounder, plus scorer and overall she doesn't make a lot of mistakes with the ball even though the refs keep calling that stupid traveling foot shuffle.

There are players who can make plays against top competition, players who can beat up secondary competition and contribute something in March and then reserve depth. We have 2 of the first type, 5 or 6 of the 2nd type and then the rest. Having 5-6 of the 2nd type is important and hopefully they have great careers as coaches and other endeavors later in life, but you really need some of that first grouping to win it all. I think we should be a top 4 team again when Paige gets back even if we don't get much from Azzi. If Azzi can defend, she certainly has the ability to be a player in that first grouping. We have yet to see her pull up jumper with any success yet and even if she can just space the floor and knock down a good percentage of 3 pointers she would help this team a lot. She may well end up our 3rd best player before the year is done.

Which is really good by the way. Evina, CW, Edwards and Dorka are all very solid players. Absolutely will be extremely important going forward.

Call me crazy but I think Dorka is our best draft pick this year. I'd pick her higher than any other draft eligible player on the team.

No question. Possible that no other seniors get drafted. Even less likely that they make a WNBA roster for the start of the season.

 

[TeamFirst!]

A lot of Creighton's offensive rebounds were long bounces back to the guards. It was one "clank" against the rim after another.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

ONO is unofficially a bench player. She played 8 minutes less than the other starters, and logged the same 22 minutes as Edwards. The front court is Dorka and Ducharmes, both of whom played starter minutes against Creighton.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Found it strange and ominous that DeBerry and Gabriel were kept out of the game for reasons that included "unspecified" reasons not related to injuries. What's up with that? Attitude problems? "violation of team rules" is something that never happens at UConn. So the cryptic nature of the reasons for not playing them is troubling.

 

[JellyBean]

The Magnificent Seven!! I tip my hat to these wonderful ladies that gutted it out in this game against Creighton. Wow!! Great job out there ladies!

 

[hoopsfan22]

Found it strange and ominous that DeBerry and Gabriel were kept out of the game for reasons that included "unspecified" reasons not related to injuries. What's up with that? Attitude problems? "violation of team rules" is something that never happens at UConn. So the cryptic nature of the reasons for not playing them is troubling.

Piath has played in 1 game for 2 minutes this season. I'd like to see her play more, but we've also had a lot more games come down to the wire which reduces opportunities for her to get in games.

 

[Fossil]

A win is a win, and especially what they've gone through the last 3 weeks, I'm happy for the team and Geno and staff. Creighton is a solid team and I thought we played a great game until the last several minutes where we seemed to slow the game down to our detriment and try to run offense (execution was bad). I think going forward, Geno needs to tell the team to continue playing the way they did for the first 3 1/2 quarters, because this team's lack of proficient and trustworthy guard play is going to cost us.

I am also now firmly in the camp that we need to also acknowledge that this team is not going to be led by the seniors. The seniors will play very important roles, but the team will be led by our freshman and sophomores.

I thought everyone played pretty well. I think Liv could've played better, but will give her a pass. Evina is playing really poorly the last few games. She is hesitant and a turnover machine. I am actually surprised by this, because she is one of my favorite players on the team, but she is hurting the team big time right now. I'm hoping she will snap out of it.

Looking forward to getting Azzi back in a couple of weeks or so. We desperately need another good shooter out there with CD. You can see teams sagging and leaving many of our players with daylight to shoot knowing that we currently do not have the the players to consistently hit the outside shot. Azzi will open up so much for other guards and post players, can't wait to see Geno let her and CD play freely without worrying about being benched.

The problem I have with a lot of assessments of Azzi is that she will be a big part of the cure for UConn’s winning ways. That may be the case offensively but from what she has shown she appears to be a defensive liability. When guarding other shooting guards she plays the old matador Defense where the offensive player drives right past her (Ole). That type of defense has really hurt UConn in the past Miss St, ND and Az. Hopefully with Attention to footwork and quickness along with improved positioning her Defense will improve and not hold her back from being the star everyone is hoping for. If not it creates a problem for the coaching staff late in games. Do we need the offense or do we need solid defense? Lou improved a lot over time hopefully Azzi will also.

 

[freshler40]

But the front court was out rebounded by Creighton. Consider that UConn had two players at 6'5", and another, an Olympian no less, at 6'3", yet Creighton with no player taller than 6'1" out rebounded UConn. And also consider that the undersized Creighton team pulled down nearly twice as many offensive rebounds as Connecticut- 13 versus 7.

Edwards picks up three fouls in just 22 minutes on the court.

Once again, ONO plays so "aggressively" that she gets to the free throw line exactly one time. Once!

The problem is with both the front court AND the back court.

They seem to use ONO as the start of offense and not the penetrating guards when paige is out. Only in the second half did she go inside, then in one sad moment missed several times under the hoop. She then reverts to not trying again. Our team needs more game time work! We are 4-5 games behind most other top 25 teams and this is hurt a lot.

Rebounds are in large part determination, reading angles off of missed shots and #1 blocking out! Our bigs need better coaching. Somethings can be coached, determination can't I don't think.

 

[donalddoowop]

Found it strange and ominous that DeBerry and Gabriel were kept out of the game for reasons that included "unspecified" reasons not related to injuries. What's up with that? Attitude problems? "violation of team rules" is something that never happens at UConn. So the cryptic nature of the reasons for not playing them is troubling.

You must not have been reading the BY. Reasons were given why they did not play. As far as the traveling calls, watch the players before they start their dribble. Many of them shuffle their feet before they start their dribble. When I refereed, I would always call that. Refs will stop calling traveling when players stop traveling. Don't blame refs for doing their job. However, I have seen times when the refs were wrong but only after watching replay.

 

[hoophuskee]

Could be that Geno's loyalty will have CW still in the starting lineup when Paige returns, but don't you think that Caroline will benefit equally, or possibly even more so than CW at that time?

I don’t think it has anything do with loyalty.

Maybe CD starts ahead of Evina. That's a different question I won't speculate on yet.

But as for CWill - no way CWill loses her spot as of right now. CWill was very good last year late in the season and in NCAA's. You can't prove any more than that / what she proved last year. That's not "loyalty"- that's "results."

Secondly, CWill found a groove vs Notre Dame in which she became comfortable driving and then passing the ball.

Third, Geno has a definite affinity for firepower off the bench if he could have it. An old-time Celtic lover - the idea of a fearless freshmen coming off the bench, I think fits into a big preference of his.

Four, freshmen usually struggle in late season tourneys at end of year if given too much attention/responsibility. Unless CD is this year's version of a superstar, then no reason to not have come off the bench vs CWill who has proven results.

Five, nothing wrong coming off the bench. Who says players off the bench can't get more minutes than the starters? If you are getting more minutes and playing more late in the games than a starter, why does it matter who starts?

It's not one factor but it's the accumulation of the above which leads me to say I doubt it big time CW loses her starting spot to CD.

 

[TeamFirst!]

There is zero question that refs are calling traveling more now. It should be less nit picking and more basketball. It is a huge detriment to the sport to have the refs call it so carefully now

 

[Stymie]

There is zero question that refs are calling traveling more now. It should be less nit picking and more basketball. It is a huge detriment to the sport to have the refs call it so carefully now

If they called it like this in the Pros, a game would take 6 hours.

 

[The deacon]

I don’t think it has anything do with loyalty.

Maybe CD starts ahead of Evina. That's a different question I won't speculate on yet.

But as for CWill - no way CWill loses her spot as of right now. CWill was very good last year late in the season and in NCAA's. You can't prove any more than that / what she proved last year. That's not "loyalty"- that's "results."

Secondly, CWill found a groove vs Notre Dame in which she became comfortable driving and then passing the ball.

Third, Geno has a definite affinity for firepower off the bench if he could have it. An old-time Celtic lover - the idea of a fearless freshmen coming off the bench, I think fits into a big preference of his.

Four, freshmen usually struggle in late season tourneys at end of year if given too much attention/responsibility. Unless CD is this year's version of a superstar, then no reason to not have come off the bench vs CWill who has proven results.

Five, nothing wrong coming off the bench. Who says players off the bench can't get more minutes than the starters? If you are getting more minutes and playing more late in the games than a starter, why does it matter who starts?

It's not one factor but it's the accumulation of the above which leads me to say I doubt it big time CW loses her starting spot to CD.

Perhaps loyalty wasn't my best choice of words. Agreed on most points, Hoophuskee, except, and it just a supposition at this point, I do believe Caroline will be the player who gains the most from Paige's return. I'm not considering Azzi until we see her more.

Agreed re the sixth man reference. As one who was not a Celtics' fan, I well recall Frank Ramsey and John Havlicek sparking Boston rallies from off the bench. I just find it hard to fathom that Geno wouldn't start Caroline if she's scoring 15-20 points per game. I believe he already sees Caroline as a potential UConn all-timer, as do I.

So, possibly Evina? So many games to be played which will help sort it out...

Regarding Christyn and her performance in the '21 tournament, I hope she can raise the level of her game again. We'll needs all hands on deck.

 

[WFFL]

There is zero question that refs are calling traveling more now. It should be less nit picking and more basketball. It is a huge detriment to the sport to have the refs call it so carefully now

Or the players can learn the fundamental of not traveling lol

 

[hoophuskee]

That may be the case offensively but from what she has shown she appears to be a defensive liability. When guarding other shooting guards she plays the old matador Defense where the offensive player drives right past her (Ole).

We don't know this yet. She had a foot injury. And it couldn't have been "matador" when UCONN played USF. We'll see.

 

[Boreifs]

Piath has played in 1 game for 2 minutes this season. I'd like to see her play more, but we've also had a lot more games come down to the wire which reduces opportunities for her to get in games.

She was not dressed yesterday.