Contentment with the new big East as a permanent home

[BapeKidd88]

Are you delusional?

1) Louisville and Rutgers had accepted P5 invites well before playing a lame duck season in the AAC. Their performance (or lack thereof) in that 1 year had nothing to do with their invite status.

2) UConn football did not play well in the AAC and is seen as an anchor to any serious football conference. Also, BYU is an Indy football team and got the invite to the Big 12, so your argument is further falling apart. Plus, our football schedule now has 5-6 P5 games per year against teams like Indiana, NC State, BC, Syracuse, Maryland, etc. You can’t seriously tell me that’s less beneficial as a “proving ground” than a schedule loaded with conference games against Tulane, USF and SMU.

3) I stated this above, yes, geography has everything to do with UConn not getting an invite to the Big 12. No, it wasn’t the “complaining” of the fan base that kept us out. It’s the fact that we are thousands of miles from most of their members that hurt us. UConn has stated it views itself as a top tier university (both academically and in sports) and being in the Big East, along other well respected universities like Villanova and Georgetown, is more beneficial from a PR standpoint than aligning ourselves with Eastern Carolina University and Tulsa.

1.) It doesn’t matter if the league was called OBE or AAC, Louisville and Rutgers got poached from the Aresco league, headquarters in Providence RI. They are very much part of the 5 who got the call ups.

2.) BYU hasn’t performed well as an Indy. It’s one of their least successful periods in their history (despite their recent success). Thus, being an Indy had zero to do with their P5 invite. It had everything to do with their unique national/global brand, which is unique to them (in a similar way to the Naval Academy. UConn doesn’t have that calling card, and it’s ridiculous to compare the two situations. Hypothetically, UConn is IN COMPETITION with AAC schools (like USF and SMU) for any future spot. Consequently, UConn somehow needs to clearly show how it measures up - if a league is going to project UConn as being a cut above, imo.

3.) Being grouped in with FCS schools like Villanova and Georgetown is a bigger hinderance than being grouped in with FBS schools. East Carolina and Tulsa have played in leagues with TCU, Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF, etc; all before they got their P5 spots. UConn wasn’t hurt in the least by playing them. However, UConn has stigmatized itself as a “Power” candidate by its seemingly low prioritization of football. The Big Boys don’t see Villanova and Georgetown as their peers. They see them as schools that are peddling religious doctrines and care little about big time football.

 

[Zissou]

3.) Being grouped in with FCS schools like Villanova and Georgetown is a bigger hinderance than being grouped in with FBS schools. East Carolina and Tulsa have played in leagues with TCU, Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF, etc; all before they got their P5 spots. UConn wasn’t hurt in the least by playing them. However, UConn has stigmatized itself as a “Power” candidate by its seemingly low prioritization of football. The Big Boys don’t see Villanova and Georgetown as their peers. They see them as schools that are peddling religious doctrines and care little about big time football.

If you are in the BIG Ten then the conference provides for your basketball and football future.

if you are in the AAC, your don’t have a solid path in either. UConn waited for the next TV deal and it was a bust. So the paths for basketball and football are more challenging.

The Big East is the hoops path. No one looks past Villanova in hoops nor the Big East for its schedule, strength, and conference tournament. It’s true that this is a basketball first conference. That many members are Catholic is an aside, as it doesn’t seem to prevent Notre Dame’s football aspirations.

Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina… there are certainly P5 basketball blue bloods that the Big Boys in football don’t respect as their peers.

So what are UConn’s aspirations? To compete with Bama and Georgia and Clemson for the CFP?

 

[McLovin]

1.) It doesn’t matter if the league was called OBE or AAC, Louisville and Rutgers got poached from the Aresco league, headquarters in Providence RI. They are very much part of the 5 who got the call ups.

2.) BYU hasn’t performed well as an Indy. It’s one of their least successful periods in their history (despite their recent success). Thus, being an Indy had zero to do with their P5 invite. It had everything to do with their unique national/global brand, which is unique to them (in a similar way to the Naval Academy. UConn doesn’t have that calling card, and it’s ridiculous to compare the two situations. Hypothetically, UConn is IN COMPETITION with AAC schools (like USF and SMU) for any future spot. Consequently, UConn somehow needs to clearly show how it measures up - if a league is going to project UConn as being a cut above, imo.

3.) Being grouped in with FCS schools like Villanova and Georgetown is a bigger hinderance than being grouped in with FBS schools. East Carolina and Tulsa have played in leagues with TCU, Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF, etc; all before they got their P5 spots. UConn wasn’t hurt in the least by playing them. However, UConn has stigmatized itself as a “Power” candidate by its seemingly low prioritization of football. The Big Boys don’t see Villanova and Georgetown as their peers. They see them as schools that are peddling religious doctrines and care little about big time football.

If and when the BIG and ACC decide to expand, they will first look to poach each other. Then they will look at UConn, Kansas and WVU. Then they will look at the rest of the Big 12 schools. Then for good humor, they will accept and then laugh at the applications from SMU and USF.

In no world other than your fantasy does “AAC membership” give any school an inside track to an invite to the BIG or ACC (as stated previously, UConn had no real intention to join the Big 12 with their current member makeup, we are only going for a spot in those 2 conferences).

 

[McLovin]

1.) It doesn’t matter if the league was called OBE or AAC, Louisville and Rutgers got poached from the Aresco league, headquarters in Providence RI. They are very much part of the 5 who got the call ups.

2.) BYU hasn’t performed well as an Indy. It’s one of their least successful periods in their history (despite their recent success). Thus, being an Indy had zero to do with their P5 invite. It had everything to do with their unique national/global brand, which is unique to them (in a similar way to the Naval Academy. UConn doesn’t have that calling card, and it’s ridiculous to compare the two situations. Hypothetically, UConn is IN COMPETITION with AAC schools (like USF and SMU) for any future spot. Consequently, UConn somehow needs to clearly show how it measures up - if a league is going to project UConn as being a cut above, imo.

3.) Being grouped in with FCS schools like Villanova and Georgetown is a bigger hinderance than being grouped in with FBS schools. East Carolina and Tulsa have played in leagues with TCU, Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF, etc; all before they got their P5 spots. UConn wasn’t hurt in the least by playing them. However, UConn has stigmatized itself as a “Power” candidate by its seemingly low prioritization of football. The Big Boys don’t see Villanova and Georgetown as their peers. They see them as schools that are peddling religious doctrines and care little about big time football.

And also, when we rebuild football, beating up SMU and ECU will be less beneficial to “projecting UConn as a cut above” than beating the P5 schools on our schedule whose conferences we want to join.

If we can get the football program back to competence, beating future opponents like NC State, Duke, BC, Maryland, Wake Forest, UNC, Indiana, Syracuse, Purdue, etc. and playing competitive games against schools like Ohio State, Michigan, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Clemson, etc. will put us on the big boys radar more than 9 games a year against AAC competition.

Our football program now has at least 4 P5 games scheduled each year over the next few seasons, with more to come. Something not possible if we played a 9 game AAC slate of Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, ECU, USF, etc. What better way to prove we belong back in the big time than by playing and actually beating the schools we wish to join?

 

[MJ1]

Bottom line, BYU was invited as an independent, if UCONN can right the Football ship they don’t need the AAC.
UCONN would get an invite as an independent in Football with great Basketball teams both Men and Women.

 

[Jbirdp5]

1.) It doesn’t matter if the league was called OBE or AAC, Louisville and Rutgers got poached from the Aresco league, headquarters in Providence RI. They are very much part of the 5 who got the call ups.

2.) BYU hasn’t performed well as an Indy. It’s one of their least successful periods in their history (despite their recent success). Thus, being an Indy had zero to do with their P5 invite. It had everything to do with their unique national/global brand, which is unique to them (in a similar way to the Naval Academy. UConn doesn’t have that calling card, and it’s ridiculous to compare the two situations. Hypothetically, UConn is IN COMPETITION with AAC schools (like USF and SMU) for any future spot. Consequently, UConn somehow needs to clearly show how it measures up - if a league is going to project UConn as being a cut above, imo.

3.) Being grouped in with FCS schools like Villanova and Georgetown is a bigger hinderance than being grouped in with FBS schools. East Carolina and Tulsa have played in leagues with TCU, Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF, etc; all before they got their P5 spots. UConn wasn’t hurt in the least by playing them. However, UConn has stigmatized itself as a “Power” candidate by its seemingly low prioritization of football. The Big Boys don’t see Villanova and Georgetown as their peers. They see them as schools that are peddling religious doctrines and care little about big time football.

This guys moving the goalposts all over the field lol.
Byu is independent but got invited for pre independence performance.
East Carolina and Tulsa are closer to p5 because they used to be in a league that are now p5.
Doesn’t consider the fact that we are nowhere near any of the current big 12 footprint at all, the big 12 really focused on all the complaining our fan base did and decided to pass.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Content. Absolutely do not expect a future ACC invitation nor an even less likely B1G invitation barring some more unanticipated P5 musical chairs. However, such bigger dinero would be hard to turn down. Not happening. NNBE, gridiron independence, and Hockey East are UConn's current and likely future opportunities. Go Huskies!

 

[BapeKidd88]

If and when the BIG and ACC decide to expand, they will first look to poach each other. Then they will look at UConn, Kansas and WVU. Then they will look at the rest of the Big 12 schools. Then for good humor, they will accept and then laugh at the applications from SMU and USF.

In no world other than your fantasy does “AAC membership” give any school an inside track to an invite to the BIG or ACC (as stated previously, UConn had no real intention to join the Big 12 with their current member makeup, we are only going for a spot in those 2 conferences).

Bottom line:

Virtually every team that has ever been promoted to a BCS/P5 conference (going back to Utah to the PAC) has made their way by winning their league and making their name via the BCS/NY6 route.

You can choose not to see the process for what it is, or not, but it’s worked.

The C5 (the basketball G5) Catholic 5 - you can’t count Marquette/DePaul - leftovers, don’t boost UConn’s case.

UConn stigmatized itself by getting beat up in the AAC, and relegating football.
In no way has anything that’s developed lately make UConn appealing to the big boy conferences.

Beat UMass!!!!!

 

[Jbirdp5]

Bottom line:

Virtually every team that has ever been promoted to a BCS/P5 conference (going back to Utah to the PAC) has made their way by winning their league and making their name via the BCS/NY6 route.

You can choose not to see the process for what it is, or not, but it’s worked.

The C5 (the basketball G5) Catholic 5 - you can’t count Marquette/DePaul - leftovers, don’t boost UConn’s case.

UConn stigmatized itself by getting beat up in the AAC, and relegating football.
In no way has anything that’s developed lately make UConn appealing to the big boy conferences.

Beat UMass!!!!!

Where was Rutgers big NY 6 route to the big ten?
The most successful group of 5 team of all time Boise isn’t in the p 5 is it?
Your trying to make everything streamlined into a simple equation to get into the p 5 and it’s a much more nuanced situation than you make it out to be.
UConn was completely floundering in the AAC so they decided to try a different approach. Less than 1 season in I find it funny that you have already decided it can’t work and could never work.

 

[Zissou]

Beat UMass!!!

 

[BapeKidd88]

Again, post TX and OU, it is not a power conference.

Not that anyone seriously thought otherwise, but...

Here are snippets from the latest KSL (NBC affiliate) piece about Big 12’s status as a P5 conference:

Big 12’s Power Five Status ‘Will Be Fully Assured,’ According To Study​

Share
BY MITCH HARPER, KSL SPORTS | OCTOBER 5, 2021 AT 11:25 AM

Big 12 Conference Power Five Status 'Will Be Fully Assured' (kslsports.com)

Altimore Collins & Company, a strategy consulting service, recently put together a “data-driven expansion target analysis” centered around the Big 12 Conference. One of their findings is that the Big 12’s Power Five status isn’t going anywhere after Texas and Oklahoma leave the league.

On page six of the 233-page analysis, the study states, “The B12 A-5 status will be fully assured through at least any big reorganization of NCAA models.” Then goes on to state, “fans can stop worrying if the new-look Big 12 will remain a ‘Power Five’ conference. The ‘Power 5’ debate is a media-driven, confused, made-up issue and term, driven by uninformed rival fans and pushed by click-hungry writers.”

“NCAA has legislatively empowered the Big 12 with A-5 conference authority powers going forward. …Among life’s many worries, this should not be one. The autonomous powers will not be soon curtailed,” stated the Altimore Collins & Company study

 

[The Shot]

Not that anyone seriously thought otherwise, but...

Here are snippets from the latest KSL (NBC affiliate) piece about Big 12’s status as a P5 conference:

Big 12’s Power Five Status ‘Will Be Fully Assured,’ According To Study​

Share
BY MITCH HARPER, KSL SPORTS | OCTOBER 5, 2021 AT 11:25 AM

Big 12 Conference Power Five Status 'Will Be Fully Assured' (kslsports.com)

So this is your problem. You post a catchy headline that seems to backup the garbage you’re spewing and hope that no one reads it. The fact is this article clearly undercuts your position.

“The better question for the Big 12 in the future is what will happen with the next TV deal? Texas and Oklahoma are massive TV draws. So everyone expects the per team payouts to dip from the $37-$39 million the league is making now with the Longhorns and Sooners as members. But how much does it change?”

What defines the Power 5 is the money. The new Big 12 will not be making what the other members of the Power 5 are. The autonomy that the Big 12 enjoys may remain but the money behind them will dry up. Try harder.

 

[BapeKidd88]

I’m content with UConn in the Big East.

if somehow the BIG Ten came calling you’d take it as a great move for football and money, even though the hoops would be a downgrade.

The ACC you would take solely for the cash. It’s not a great fit, but a sustainable financial fit.

UConn would have been a misfit in the old Big12, but again you’d take it just for the cash. The new Big12 still would offer a geographical misfit, but without the cash. It’s P5 spending without P5 revenue, and won’t be sustainable.

I’m content with UConn in the Big East. If the BIG Ten or ACC invites come, you take them. You don’t pass on winning the lottery, but it’s not likely. Be content with where you are and don’t dream of the lottery as your path to happiness.

There's no way in hades UConn would ever reject a P5 lifeline, especially in the #1 Basketball Conference per Kenpom. UConn knows that means eventually being on the wrong side of a split. Benedict would kill for that spot.

To put things into perspective:
Just ONE year of Big 12 NCAA tournament credits would be BIG for UConn.

It wasn't that long ago, when UConn was better positioned to campaign for a spot at the big boy table, that UConn spent a ton of advertising dollars... in Texas.


[twitter]

 

[BapeKidd88]

So this is your problem. You post a catchy headline that seems to backup the garbage you’re spewing and hope that no one reads it. The fact is this article clearly undercuts your position.

“The better question for the Big 12 in the future is what will happen with the next TV deal? Texas and Oklahoma are massive TV draws. So everyone expects the per team payouts to dip from the $37-$39 million the league is making now with the Longhorns and Sooners as members. But how much does it change?”

What defines the Power 5 is the money. The new Big 12 will not be making what the other members of the Power 5 are. The autonomy that the Big 12 enjoys may remain but the money behind them will dry up. Try harder.

That doesn't undercut anything. The author rightly stated that the TV deal (like a few conferences) will be up for renegotiation soon. How much does it change? That remains to be seen.

For a league that's the #1 Basketball league and the #3 football league (after realignment), I am sure the Big 12 feels pretty good about their situation. Perhaps if the conference slipped to the 2nd best hoops conference there would be more cause for concern.

That said, I think they'll do ok. They just added more content at the Power level.

 

[BapeKidd88]

The Shot:

You need to ask yourself. What do you think UConn's value (i.e. worth) would be on the Power level?

Then, once you've established - in your mind - UConn's "value" at the big boy table, consider how much more the "Big 12 Four" are worth, given UConn didn't even get interviewed for a spot.

 

[Tyler2Rings]

Do you think the Big 12 Conference didn't consider UConn because of all the whining

What a take. UConn missed the B12 because of whining.

 

[The Shot]

The Shot:

You need to ask yourself. What do you think UConn's value (i.e. worth) would be on the Power level?

Then, once you've established - in your mind - UConn's "value" at the big boy table, consider how much more the "Big 12 Four" are worth, given UConn didn't even get interviewed for a spot.

This will be my last reply to you since you are troll. I want to make it clear what my points (backed up by data) are before you start moving the goal posts.

• Arguing success on the field is second to money. Money controls everything and in the FBS arms race, if you don’t have any you are screwed.
• The Big 12 is shell of its former self and has lost over half of its value which should be reflected in the next negotiations.
• Neither UConn or any of the 4 replacement teams add anything to the Big 12. They further water down brand value in the league.
• The Big 12 remains a Power 5 conference in autonomy and name only. Once the money dries up, so do they.

The Wall Street Journal calculated the the values of all FBS brand values and it is damning to the argument that the Big 12 Fair disclaimer that these values are from 2018. That being said the programs in it were on similar trajectories UCF finished #11/10 and played in the Fiesta Bowl and UConn went 1-11 and was a dumpster fire that has burned since. I will sum up the number for you but I encourage to look yourself.

• Texas and Oklahoma are the 1st and 7th most valuable college football and have brand value of roughly $2 billion
• The next highest value brand from the Big 12 is KSU at 29.
• The combined value of the other 8 schools is $1.545 billion.
• Texas and Oklahoma account for 56% of league value which is inline with the dip in money that commissioner Bowlsby expects.
• The 4 replacement teams have a value of $232 million dollars or just 11.6% of Texas and Oklahoma.
• UConn is valued at $56 million which places it just behind BYU and UCF and in front of Cincinnati and Houston.
• The 4 new teams provide less value than all but 2 teams in the Big 12.
• Interestingly West Virginia who has had more success than any of the 4 teams added is the least valuable brand in the new Big 12 meaning performance doesn’t indicate value when it comes to negotiations.

If you lose 56% of your value and only receiver roughly 5% there is no way to polish that turd. You are by definition 1/2 of conference you previously were. As a sub-6 foot male past my prime I didn’t realize that I’d ever be dunking this much.

 

[Waquoit]

Name another program that has both BB teams featured in a nationally televised doubleheader 2 states away? That's some brand value, right there.

 

[Waquoit]

UConn knows that means eventually being on the wrong side of a split. Benedict would kill for that spot.

Eventually be on the wrong side of a split? What's your surname, Van Winkle?

 

[Get a Job]

Eventually be on the wrong side of a split? What's your surname, Van Winkle?

Are you saying you think @BapeKidd88 is Vanilla Ice?! It would explain so much!

 

[Waquoit]

Are you saying you think @BapeKidd88 is Vanilla Ice?! It would explain so much!

I doubt Bape is as cool as Ice.

 

[BapeKidd88]

Eventually be on the wrong side of a split? What's your surname, Van Winkle?

The Power 5 is a club, and these conferences support each other.

Do you think the new big east will follow suit with some of the Power 5 on initiatives such as this?

[twitter]

 

[shizzle787]

The Power 5 is a club, and these conferences support each other.

Do you think the new big east will follow suit with some of the Power 5 on initiatives such as this?

[twitter]

To answer your question, yes.

 

[BapeKidd88]

UConn is valued at $56 million which places it just behind BYU and UCF and in front of Cincinnati and Houston.

This doesn't seem to be supported by the conclusion of Power 5 expansion.

UConn is making 4 million on its share of the new big east contract. The CBSSN agreement with UConn football is for peanuts.

Houston's value to the Big 12 footprint (and contract) goes up enormously within that framework (given their market and access for the other Big 12 schools). Cincinnati has a similar value of its own within that structure that feeds the other schools. Their success this year is also building more brand value for the group.

That's what people lose in this discussion of brands and value. The collective dynamic of brand value (and how the teams combine within that structure) is equally - if not more - important that trying to tabulate values for individual schools.

The dynamics that UConn brings to the table just don't raise the tide for the other boats in a similar way.

The new big east is hoping that when their 12-year contract comes up, that UConn can benefit their smaller school fanbases collectively. We will see.

That's why the new big east should really pick up a 12th school, because in the next NBE negotiation it will be all about "CONTENT" AND the lack of size of those fanbases.