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Confidence in Danny Going Forward

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For those scoring at home, Ollie beat Phil Martelli, Jay Wright, Fred Hoiberg, Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan and John Calipari in consecutive games to win a NATIONAL FREAKING CHAMPIONSHIP with a roster that had ONE future NBA player on it.

Do you think Hurley could do that at this point in his career? We have lost to St. Joe's and just got blown out by Cincinnati.
 
For those scoring at home, Ollie beat Phil Martelli, Jay Wright, Fred Hoiberg, Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan and John Calipari in consecutive games to win a NATIONAL FREAKING CHAMPIONSHIP with a roster that had ONE future NBA player on it.

Do you think Hurley could do that at this point in his career? We have lost to St. Joe's and just got blown out by Cincinnati.
In that season Ollie got manhandled by Pitino 3 times. And was a miracle by Amida Brimah from losing to.....St Joes lmaooo. He also had a couple of guards names Shabazz Napier and Ryan Boatright. Who would’ve fit Hurley’s style like a glove
 
In that season Ollie got manhandled by Pitino 3 times. And was a miracle by Amida Brimah from losing to.....St Joes lmaooo. He also had a couple of guards names Shabazz Napier and Ryan Boatright. Who would’ve fit Hurley’s style like a glove

Hurley just got his tits lit by 7-5 Cincinnati, and you are "lmaooo"ing about the time Ollie won a National Championship because you don't think it counts?
 
Hurley just got his tits lit by 7-5 Cincinnati, and you are "lmaooo"ing about the time Ollie won a National Championship because you don't think it counts?
Huh? Where did I say I didn’t count? I pointed out Ollie getting manhandled that same year to show it happens even to the best teams. I pointed out Shabazz and Boatright because Hurley has no one close to that caliber. The lmaooo was just because its ironic how he almost loss to St Joes as well. Try harder next time
 
The thing is we're comparing him to KO who I gave a 0 rating on a 0-10 confidence scale. We shouldn't be having these performances every 4 or 5 games.

We shouldn't? I mean this is what this core has done for four years, lol.

And they lost their go-to scorer and we replaced him with three freshmen on the team. How many times do we have to see this before you kind of accept that this is what they're gonna do? They do care an they work hard - they're just not that good. There's a limit to their ability. I mean I'd work really hard to play on the UConn basketball team but i'm only 6'2 and overweight and I suck at basketball. There's only so much I can do an only so much yelling and chair smashing Hurley can do that's going to make me do anything more than what I can actually do. And these guys are actually not very good. In a five game stretch they'll beat someone they shouldn't. They'll lose to someone they shouldn't. The'll get blown out by 20 against a good team and then play two more games that go either way depending on how their stretch of in-game dumpster fire goes. That's what they do.

I mean what's Hurley supposed to do yell at them and scare them or something? Bench them? I mean he sat Carlton for 70% of the Maine game to prove a point. He's got Sid buried on planet Pluto somewhere. There's been entire stretches where he won't let Gilbert and Vital out on the court together unless there's a babysitter there to accompany them (Gaffney).

You look at how he's run his offense historically - I mean he's NEVER had a guy like Carlton in that rotation. But he's there and we don't really have anything else and you can't trot an undersized group out against this Cincinnati team. I mean heck - he did after Carlton played himself to the bench again and it still didn't make a difference. Instead it was Gaffney chasing Vogt around and hugging him. Akok got roughed up by him, too.

I hate saying it, but these kids are not. good. enough. They don't digest coaching. They cave when things get tough. They don't manage their energy well. They have bad basketball IQ. And that's not even getting into their lack of physical tools. LOOK at the difference in size between them and us tonight. They're mid major basketball players. Some of them do a few things well and when everyone's on - they can beat some really, really good teams; but the talent distribution is such that a lot has to happen for those talents to all be on on a consistent basis. So what you get is exactly what you're watching. These are deeply flawed basketball players and you need to roll Yahtzee every game if you want to see a good game from them. The good players we have are young and raw still (less so Akok, but he can't do everything on his own).

I'm not making excuses for Hurley - I would like to have seen more from him tonight. But this constant couch fainting over these guys is so beyond me at this point. Should you expect these performances from them every 4-5 games? 100%. Like freaking clockwork.

The good news is - we're seeing a lot less of it. And all the young players have been as advertised and most of the guys are getting better. 2 out of the 3 guys though who we NEED to be fantastic haven't been anything close to that. So that's why we're at where we're at.

I'm not busting your chops here, I just can't get outsized expectations with these guys. It's a game to game thing. I just want to see the players who will be here forward getting better and I want to see us keep recruiting well. We're doing both, so i'm content for now. I'm soooooooooooooooo unconcerned with results right now I don't even know where to begin because we're just not at that point yet.

But saying we 'shouldn't' be seeing this... I dunno. When you have some raw, talented kids mixed in w/ physically limited, flawed basketball players (who are also a little PTSD after the last coach), this is exactly what you get. Some great nights. Some dumpster fires. Tonight was def the later. It's on Hurley to keep them from happening (i'm typing this watching Marquette getting smoked by a million in Creighton), but until we see the talent level take that step forward - I'm not sweating it. If it's February next year and we're doing this? Then i'll be worried. I'm not worried right now.
 
For those scoring at home, Ollie beat Phil Martelli, Jay Wright, Fred Hoiberg, Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan and John Calipari in consecutive games to win a NATIONAL FREAKING CHAMPIONSHIP with a roster that had ONE future NBA player on it.

Do you think Hurley could do that at this point in his career? We have lost to St. Joe's and just got blown out by Cincinnati.
Cmon. All this says is that if you have the right players, at the right time, then you can catch a wave & win big. I liked Ollie, but that was a once-in-a-lifetime ride that worked in our favor. There’s a lot of mediocre coaches who won championships. Let’s not make it like KO was another Wooden.
 
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For those scoring at home, Ollie beat Phil Martelli, Jay Wright, Fred Hoiberg, Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan and John Calipari in consecutive games to win a NATIONAL FREAKING CHAMPIONSHIP with a roster that had ONE future NBA player on it.

Do you think Hurley could do that at this point in his career? We have lost to St. Joe's and just got blown out by Cincinnati.

Bernie Carbo and Aaron Boone hit big game HR's once, too. Guess they should be gifted lifetime contracts and hit cleanup forever.
 
Cmon. All this says is that if you have the right players, at the right time, then you can catch a wave & win big. I liked Ollie, but that was a once-in-a-lifetime ride that worked i. Our favor. Let’s not make it like Ollie is another Wooden.
The good coaches win when they have good players. That goes for any sport at any level, Its that simple. The bad coaches don’t win when they have good players, and in the case of college sports, bad coaches cant recruit good players. Yes, crazy things can happen, and every team that has ever won a championship has gotten lucky at some point during their championship run. Im not trying to defend Ollie, but 2014 was not a fluke. What happened after 2014 was in fact Ollie’s fault since he failed to recruit/develop good enough players.
 
I consider myself a pretty optimistic and not particularly reactionary guy, but I’m at a seven right now. The coaching staff that Hurley has assembled is impressive and his recruiting has been outstanding out of the gate, but the lack of any kind of coherent half-court offensive sets has me concerned. The kids coming out unprepared game after game has me concerned. The lack of first half adjustments, has me concerned. Seeing our two senior starters making the same mistakes over and over again has me concerned.

Don’t get me wrong I like Hurley and I’m glad he’s our coach, but I am a little concerned about what we’re seeing this season.

After the Miami game where we had such good interior passing by Carlton and good overall team play I had hopes the offense was improving but it didn't continue.
 
The issue I see offensively really centers on off the ball movement to be honest.

Just snatch a rando clip tonight. Just go back - watch five minutes and watch our off the ball movement offensively. Guys aren't getting open. Our screens are set slow and deliberately. Our picks never turn into pick and rolls. So what happens is no one's open to get the ball to. Gilbert and Vital have the ball deep into the shot clock - they drive and either take a contested layup because Carlton is dragging some dinosaur through the key or we don't complete the drive and get a crappy screen with no roll and we jack up a contested jumper. Watch the overall lack of distance and space *every guy* on the floor creates.

So that's kind of the problem. Some of that is guys no playing with intent. It's not finding energy and having confidence in their movements (Polley, Vital). Some of that is being young and not really knowing the offense as well as they should (BK, Gaffney, Akok. Some of it is just being unathletic and slow (Whaley, Carlton). But it's happening.

I also think Hurley needs to hit the eject button on Carlton altogether as a starter/centerpiece on offense - at least insofar as he needs to be more selective when he uses him. He's slow, can't jump and clogs up lanes. He moves like crap. He's just sorta this traditional center, back to the basket guy and he doesn't really fit. And he makes the off the ball movement issue worse because 1) he's actually the worst off the ball guy on the entire floor; 2) is never in good position; 3) drags guys into space where guys are driving and; 4) has frying pans for hands. He doesn't fit and he makes the problems we have right now on offense worse.

But it's pretty apparent Danny sees that - Carlton's minutes are dropping like a rock. Just hard to totally ice him out when you look at what Cincy threw at us tonight.

Its just adjustments. We gotta figure it out. We shouldn't be this bad. I just wouldn't take us being terrible here as an indicator the whole ship is sinking. Everything else has been great.
He’s the polar opposite of brimah who also couldn’t catch but was always on the ground.
 
We shouldn't? I mean this is what this core has done for four years, lol.

And they lost their go-to scorer and we replaced him with three freshmen on the team. How many times do we have to see this before you kind of accept that this is what they're gonna do? They do care an they work hard - they're just not that good. There's a limit to their ability. I mean I'd work really hard to play on the UConn basketball team but i'm only 6'2 and overweight and I suck at basketball. There's only so much I can do an only so much yelling and chair smashing Hurley can do that's going to make me do anything more than what I can actually do. And these guys are actually not very good. In a five game stretch they'll beat someone they shouldn't. They'll lose to someone they shouldn't. The'll get blown out by 20 against a good team and then play two more games that go either way depending on how their stretch of in-game dumpster fire goes. That's what they do.

I mean what's Hurley supposed to do yell at them and scare them or something? Bench them? I mean he sat Carlton for 70% of the Maine game to prove a point. He's got Sid buried on planet Pluto somewhere. There's been entire stretches where he won't let Gilbert and Vital out on the court together unless there's a babysitter there to accompany them (Gaffney).

You look at how he's run his offense historically - I mean he's NEVER had a guy like Carlton in that rotation. But he's there and we don't really have anything else and you can't trot an undersized group out against this Cincinnati team. I mean heck - he did after Carlton played himself to the bench again and it still didn't make a difference. Instead it was Gaffney chasing Vogt around and hugging him. Akok got roughed up by him, too.

I hate saying it, but these kids are not. good. enough. They don't digest coaching. They cave when things get tough. They don't manage their energy well. They have bad basketball IQ. And that's not even getting into their lack of physical tools. LOOK at the difference in size between them and us tonight. They're mid major basketball players. Some of them do a few things well and when everyone's on - they can beat some really, really good teams; but the talent distribution is such that a lot has to happen for those talents to all be on on a consistent basis. So what you get is exactly what you're watching. These are deeply flawed basketball players and you need to roll Yahtzee every game if you want to see a good game from them. The good players we have are young and raw still (less so Akok, but he can't do everything on his own).

I'm not making excuses for Hurley - I would like to have seen more from him tonight. But this constant couch fainting over these guys is so beyond me at this point. Should you expect these performances from them every 4-5 games? 100%. Like freaking clockwork.

The good news is - we're seeing a lot less of it. And all the young players have been as advertised and most of the guys are getting better. 2 out of the 3 guys though who we NEED to be fantastic haven't been anything close to that. So that's why we're at where we're at.

I'm not busting your chops here, I just can't get outsized expectations with these guys. It's a game to game thing. I just want to see the players who will be here forward getting better and I want to see us keep recruiting well. We're doing both, so i'm content for now. I'm soooooooooooooooo unconcerned with results right now I don't even know where to begin because we're just not at that point yet.

But saying we 'shouldn't' be seeing this... I dunno. When you have some raw, talented kids mixed in w/ physically limited, flawed basketball players (who are also a little PTSD after the last coach), this is exactly what you get. Some great nights. Some dumpster fires. Tonight was def the later. It's on Hurley to keep them from happening (i'm typing this watching Marquette getting smoked by a million in Creighton), but until we see the talent level take that step forward - I'm not sweating it. If it's February next year and we're doing this? Then i'll be worried. I'm not worried right now.
He's supposed to coach them, Hurley said Alterique and Josh would be all-league and Alterique would have a chance at AAC player of the year. Why do we make the coaching change and why does Hurley bring back all the same players if we aren't expecting him to coach them out of bad habits and make them better players? We're just supposed to sit here and say they suck while Hurley keeps playing them and expect to get our doors blown off every 4 or 5 games by teams that aren't really any good? If that's what you 100% expect then he obviously shouldn't be playing them more than some spot minutes to spell the young guys when they need a rest.

If you don't expect him to run a half court offense and instead of seeing these veterans to get better were supposed to see them stay the exact same of regress then what is he getting paid to do? Just keep running the same lineup out there and have three cr@p seasons in a row because he couldn't stomach running any players off.

You say you're not making excuses but you are. The talent thing excuse doesn't really work when you get your s***t pushed in by Cincy and St. Joes.
 
9 for me. I love Hurley's eye for talent and he can develop players.

This place sometimes seems to forget its own history. I was at a December home game vs Villanova during the "1990 Dream Season" and we had 17 points at the half, the crowd booed the team off the court at halftime and Calhoun was waving his arms gesturing too the fans to keep booing. I'm sure he really wanted to flip the crowd the bird. I think that game is part of the youtube archive so you can watch for yourself.
 
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Bailing on Carlton will leave us with the worst parts of Hurley's offense...kamikaze drives and long, contested, pull up 3's.
 
Starting to think Hurley may not be the right guy.
You’re totally wrong! This is a long term process. This team and this program can not and will not be changed overnight. When I say overnight I mean within 2 seasons. This will take longer than any of us has the patience to wait, but I trust Hurley to bring this program back
 
For those scoring at home, Ollie beat Phil Martelli, Jay Wright, Fred Hoiberg, Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan and John Calipari in consecutive games to win a NATIONAL FREAKING CHAMPIONSHIP with a roster that had ONE future NBA player on it.

Do you think Hurley could do that at this point in his career? We have lost to St. Joe's and just got blown out by Cincinnati.
This is really dumb. Shabazz was the best player in college basketball and he played the most important position in college basketball. Ollie lost total control of the program after that and was reduced to recruiting role players from Fordham and Cornell and dunkers off of youtube.
 
8-9. Guy is in year two and still doesn't have all of his own guys in yet. We’ve already showed a ton of improvement and I think those posting below that are reacting to the eye burning performance we saw tonight. There are going to be ups and downs, and this is one of the downs. I believe there will be many more ups in the future than performances like this.
 
He's supposed to coach them, Hurley said Alterique and Josh would be all-league and Alterique would have a chance at AAC player of the year. Why do we make the coaching change and why does Hurley bring back all the same players if we aren't expecting him to coach them out of bad habits and make them better players? We're just supposed to sit here and say they suck while Hurley keeps playing them and expect to get our doors blown off every 4 or 5 games by teams that aren't really any good? If that's what you 100% expect then he obviously shouldn't be playing them more than some spot minutes to spell the young guys when they need a rest.

If you don't expect him to run a half court offense and instead of seeing these veterans to get better were supposed to see them stay the exact same of regress then what is he getting paid to do? Just keep running the same lineup out there and have three cr@p seasons in a row because he couldn't stomach running any players off.

You say you're not making excuses but you are. The talent thing excuse doesn't really work when you get your s***t pushed in by Cincy and St. Joes.

LOL OF COURSE he's going to say that stuff about those guys. He's going to talk up and pump up his players - ESPECIALLY ptsd players like that. No matter how much he believes it - he's not going to get in front of a TV camera and say 'yeah, so these guys aren't good enough." Ever. He's going to defend them when he shouldn't. He's going to talk them up. All of it. And he's not here to coach 'bad habits.' They're flawed players. He's not coaching blazing gaps in skillsets out of these kids. That's not how it works lol. He's here to recruit better players and win with those guys. Because you can't with these ones.

He's here to build a program. And as bad as some of these guys have been - they're still further down the line than the younger players we have now sans Akok who is starting. So they're going to be who we're going to play for now and until they play themselves out of their spots (which they're already doing). We've been 15 rounds about pushing kids out of the program. I'm not for it. Sucks for now - but it'll pay off in the end. Roasting players is what Boeheim does. And we're beating his pants off recruits he's been after. Recruits and coaches talk about these things.

Bottom line is, we're not even halfway into the guy's second season, he's brought in a top 20 recruiting class one year and might have a second one coming - we actually play defense again and all our young players are soaking up more and more playing time. Some games i'd rather forget, but there's been plenty that have surprised me pleasantly, too. I feel like we're right where we should be - even if these games still happen now and then.
 
I just want to ask the folks who are concerned if they honestly think any coach is drawing up whatever it is Vital and Alterique are doing out there. Do you think he's telling them to not move off the ball, to never run the baseline or make a hard cut, to take 18-foot twos and fadeaways?
 
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I just want to ask the folks who are concerned if they honestly think any coach is drawing up whatever it is Vital and Alterique are doing out there. Do you think he's telling them to not move off the ball, to never run the baseline or make a hard cut, to take 18-foot twos and fadeaways?
No but he's coaching the triple weave and coaching Carlton to come out to the three point line constantly.

We've been turning it over like madmen lately as well, that isn't a talent issue it's a focus issue. It wasn't there in the earlier games.

Just call it straight, you can believe he's a great program builder who will turn it around while also pointing out all the bad stuff too.
 
No but he's coaching the triple weave and coaching Carlton to come out to the three point line constantly.

We've been turning it over like madmen lately as well, that isn't a talent issue it's a focus issue. It wasn't there in the earlier games.

Just call it straight, you can believe he's a great program builder who will turn it around while also pointing out all the bad stuff too.

I agree. Not sure why it's so black and white with people.

Great mentor. Great defensive coach generally. He has the potential to be an elite college coach.

But hes also absolutely not maximizing our offense throwing Carlton on the perimeter. Even Akok isn't facing up on the 3 pt line when he gets in the handoff situations. Sooo easy to defend.

It simply isn't working.

I'd love to see some dribble at back cuts, guard to guard handoffs with Bouk to switch him onto Riques (usually smaller) defender. Have polley set screens and open up for shots. Pin down screens for our shooters. Horns sets again. Anything.

A lot of options have the potential to work. We have yet to adjust at all.
 
9 for me. I love Hurley's eye for talent and he can develop players.

This place sometimes seems to forget its own history. I was at a December home game vs Villanova during the "1990 Dream Season" and we had 17 points at the half, the crowd booed the team off the court at halftime and Calhoun was waving his arms gesturing too the fans to keep booing. I'm sure he really wanted to flip the crowd the bird. I think that game is part of the youtube archive so you can watch for yourself.

Great memory. I just went back to watch this. It was 16 points at the half:
 
Springs sitting out this year will be great long term, but really is going to hurt us this year. We have no depth in the front court. Josh and Whaley are going to play because we have no choice.

I think Cole is going to be a huge upgrade over Gilbert.

That spring scholarship we have is going to be very important. Staff is swinging for a major recruit.

Confirmed. Furthermore, if last night’s trend continues - there could be two sets of shoes to fill in spring.
 
I agree. Not sure why it's so black and white with people.

Great mentor. Great defensive coach generally. He has the potential to be an elite college coach.

But hes also absolutely not maximizing our offense throwing Carlton on the perimeter. Even Akok isn't facing up on the 3 pt line when he gets in the handoff situations. Sooo easy to defend.

It simply isn't working.

I'd love to see some dribble at back cuts, guard to guard handoffs with Bouk to switch him onto Riques (usually smaller) defender. Have polley set screens and open up for shots. Pin down screens for our shooters. Horns sets again. Anything.

A lot of options have the potential to work. We have yet to adjust at all.
Chief agrees up to a point. But, you still need guys, who can knock down the shot off a well designed and executed play. Additionally, there were two torture chambers going inside on both ends of the court, and our guys just got totally physically abused.
Akok was the only guy who competed in the paint. He is still a relative skinny dude, but he is also a serious dude, who did The Grind ALL summer.
Watching Akok play and practice, one thing is clear, he sets high standards for himself. When he messes up, he’s very unhappy with himself. He doesn’t keep repeating a mistake like some of his teammates.
 
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9.
I have a lot of confidence in him because of his ability to recruit. He's put together a coaching staff of great recruiters, he works his ass off on the recruiting trail, he's an elite talent evaluator, and he is a very good closer. His recruiting will, for the most part, overcome his in-game deficiencies.
 
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It took Calhoun half-a-decade to build the culture he wanted and needed, by the way. There's a reason he demanded a 7-year contract when he took the job.

Hurley's a 9, dude.
The most salient point made and strongest reason not to abandon ship. The sky is not falling and the chicken little in us needs to calm down.

Look ahead. The 3 best basketball players on the team are freshmen. Imagine them in their junior year; Bigger, faster, stronger, and most important, experienced. Cole and springs will bring increased athleticism to their positions. The two committed recruits; Andre is a player like we don't have and Javonte Brown Ferguson may have the highest upside of anyone on the team. I feel certain more and better players are on the way.

Hurley's in game coaching doesn't look like much right now. But his hands are tied by the limitations of the current personnel. Don't jump ship or you will look wet and foolish when you climb back on in TWO years
 
He just got a bunch of stud freshmen and one of them is the only one on the team who can get his own shot. This is a process
 
7. But I think about JC always saying that his team has to impose its will on the opponent. I don’t think Dan has succeeded in imposing his will on his own team.
If he had imposed his will as I assume you mean, the team would be playing worse and the culture of losing would be more firmly ingrained. If he had imposed his will and taken minutes from the hold overs who aren't grasping what he is doing, the season would have been a string of losses. And 70% of the boneyard would be screaming for Dan Hurley's head on a platter.

If he benched CV for playing hero ball the cry from here would be that we need CV because he can score.
If he benched AL for over dribble and not running the offense the cry from here would be that we need Al because he is are only ball handler
If he benched Polly for lack of effort the cry from here is he is our best 3 point shooter.

He has a double barrel challenge - Destroy the losing mentality and Develop players. He is trying to do both at the same time. Which, IMO, is the right move for now.

Wait until after 3 years to judge this guy. Wait until Bok and Gaff are juniors or seniors. Then judge Dan Hurley's performance
 
I feel like you’re giving him a nine because of what you think he will do. Not where we are right now.

I’m just curious what are your expectations this year? And if it’s improvement and players getting better, where have we seen that? Brendan Adams is the only player that has made strides.

when do you start to judge him on record and win quality? Many of these players have been coached more by him then Ollie now.
Gaffney has made tremendous strides for a guy who missed 20 practices. Did you see his 7 assist 0 TO game. He is under control with his head up. He penetrates with a purpose. His passes are very catchable. These are thing that I don't see with Al.

Bouk also has started to play with more control. He is learning that he can't get away with some of those high school moves here. As his repertoire of moves improves, he can become a real go to player.

Akok makes his presence felt more in each game. He seems by nature to be very team integrated and looks to score in the flow. But because the primary guards do not create the flow, he is not getting the ball when and where he needs it.

Can you compare Whalley this year to last year and say he has not improved. last year he just took up minutes. This year he is active on defense and working the boards as best he can as an undersized post.

The most these guys have had with Dan Hurley's coaching is 1 year and 12 games. KO had 2 plus years with these guys and it is harder to coach bad habits out than good habits in. Under stress players fall back to what is comfortable, the bad habits.
 
Can we please stop comparing Hurley's situation to Calhoun's? Calhoun took over the worst program in a conference where 6 of the 9 schools would make a Final Four in the 80's, and the conference had five Hall of Fame coaches when Calhoun took the UConn job. Does anyone even know the name of Cincinnati's coach without looking it up?

UConn didn't just lose to Mark Jackson or Alonzo Mourning or Derrick Coleman. That Cincinnati team had whatever players it had, and a first year coach that is pretty unpopular with his own fan base, and they thumped the Huskies.
 
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Right so he’s 27th. Which would roughly mean the team should be contending for a top 25 ranking if he’s being paid at that level. I have a lot of confidence in him and really like the players he is bringing in, but staring down the barrel of another tough conference play season is brutal. It’s fair to question some of the decision making that’s happening is all. I’m okay with some tough losses, but showings like tonight are not acceptable.
Hey, I've got an idea. Based on your logic, why don't we make him the highest paid coach and go straight to the national championship this year. Problem solved!
 
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