College Football Playoff Looking At Expanded Field Options

[CL82]

Not saying that...just saying that using a basketball format and playing a #1 seed Alabama against the MAC Champ is a waste of time....or an Ohio State against the MAC (OSU has played 25 games against the MAC and has never lost

In football, no matter how you stage it...the same teams will end up near the top,.

So you appear to now be saying that broadening the number of participants in the championship will not in anyway harm or disenfranchise “the best teams”. Since that was your argument against it, are you now in favor of it.

 

[billybud]

So you appear to now be saying that broadening the number of participants in the championship will not in anyway harm or disenfranchise “the best teams”. Since that was your argument against it, are you now in favor of it.

Never said that...that's your continuing "trap game"...being cute.....what I said is it is complete waste of time to put teams in the playoff who have no chance to win it...as basketball does.

Never was my argument that it will harm or disenfranchise the best teams...that is your attempt to be cute and put words in my mouth...

I have been consistent in saying that the best should play for a national title.....example.. Ball State, as a Conference Champ last year would be a waste of time matching with Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State....

In football, the regular season is important, much more important than in basketball...every week is playoff...lose a game and you may be out...Alabama-Auburn-LSU...OSU-Michigan-PSU...Texas-Oklahoma, and on....

A top ten team loses on a Saturday and there are tremors felt across the whole warp and woof of the football fabric....every weekend has import and excitement....

Basketball is all about March...there is a difference in the sports.

 

[CL82]

Never said that...that's your continuing "trap game"...being cute.....what I said is it is complete waste of time to put teams in the playoff who have no chance to win it...as basketball does.

Never was my argument that it will harm or disenfranchise the best teams...that is your attempt to be cute and put words in my mouth...

I have been consistent in saying that the best should play for a national title.....example.. Ball State, as a Conference Champ last year would be a waste of time matching with Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State....

In football, the regular season is important, much more important than in basketball...every week is playoff...lose a game and you may be out...Alabama-Auburn-LSU...OSU-Michigan-PSU...Texas-Oklahoma, and on....

A top ten team loses on a Saturday and there are tremors felt across the whole warp and woof of the football fabric....every weekend has import and excitement....

Basketball is all about March...there is a difference in the sports.

I could go back and quote post directly, but frankly it’s more effort than it’s worth. So, we are in agreement then that it expanded playoff format would not in any way disenfranchise any of the “good teams” but would give more teams access to a meaningful postseason. Kind a hard to find a fault in that, no?

 

[Scoe]

25 teams is the way to go.

 

[billybud]

I could go back and quote post directly, but frankly it’s more effort than it’s worth. So, we are in agreement then that it expanded playoff format would not in any way disenfranchise any of the “good teams” but would give more teams access to a meaningful postseason. Kind a hard to find a fault in that, no?

I don't give a fig about your "disenfranchisement of good teams"...I have posited my thoughts....only the best teams based on their body of work should play for a national championship, no AQ's .......I also don't give a rat's patootie about hand wringing cries of "meaningful postseason for most teams". Meaningful in what way? A bowl that you can win, or a guaranteed loss in a meaningless tournament appearance ?

I am not a fan of the basketball model for football, plain and simple....where making the tournament of 64 is a milestone...and the bottom seeded half of the teams, from the get go, have zero chance of winning the NC. And the season is really the Month of March. But I can see why a basketball oriented fan base might be more oriented to that model.

You agree, that in basketball, with 87% of the Championships having been won by seeds #1-3...and zero seed s #9-16 ever making a Final, that the best win...No?

The difference in football is....In football, every Saturday is part of the playoff....

I would submit that college football is a tournament. It’s a form of madness that is spread out over the weekends of three to four months rather than packed into three to four weeks. The upsets can be quite dramatic in both cases but the power house teams tend to be frequent championship contenders.

You might even consider the polling as a form of the seeding or bracket. While the tournament of college football might not unravel quite as clearly as a bracketed tournament setup, in reality it’s fairly similar. Teams are knocked off, the polls like the brackets are updated, and with each set of games, we get closer to a final championship match.

March Madness enjoys its place in American sports as a unique form of competition. I do enjoy March Madness and that college basketball crowns its champion with the 64 team tournament.

Rather than push a mirror image of March Madness onto college football while ignoring the real differences between the sports, enjoy and celebrate both sports.

And as an aside...I do think that there will be a playoff expansion...but in the realm of maybe 8-12 teams. And may they be the best...whether seeded by computer or committee.

 

[CL82]

I don't give a fig about your "disenfranchisement of good teams"...I have posited my thoughts....only the best teams based on their body of work should play for a national championship.

Apparently you do, because you keep saying only “the best teams” should play for a national championship. So, apparently, you are afraid that some ‘unworthy team’ will play for a national championship. Because there are only two alternatives right? Either “the best teams“ will play for a national championship and your fear is baseless, or another team will win in the playoffs and thus earned the right to compete for a national championship. If you believe the form will happen, then your supposed complaint is baseless. If you believe the latter will happen, then I will respectfully submit that having another team earn their way to the championship qualifies them to compete for it.

 

[billybud]

CL 82...I have explained my thinking.....now go away...I find your bleats tiresome.

 

[CL82]

CL 82...I have explained my thinking.....now go away...I find your bleats tiresome.

If you are going to tag me use the @ symbol before my handle without spaces, then I will see that you posted.

Didn’t intend to offend you in the least. It just seemed that your position is logically inconsistent. But here’s the thing, posting on a fan form is a conversation not a monologue. If reading about the logical fallacies in your position is tiresome to you, perhaps it’s not your thing.

 

[billybud]

If you are going to tag me use the @ symbol before my handle without spaces, then I will see that you posted.

Didn’t intend to offend you in the least. It just seemed that your position is logically inconsistent. But here’s the thing, posting on a fan form is a conversation not a monologue. If reading about the logical fallacies in your position is tiresome to you, perhaps it’s not your thing.

Your thing is not posting your position or thoughts..and it is not a "conversation" with you..it is cutesy game playing....my thoughts are quite coherent, You don't agree with them, so you play your games...

I get it that you want a basketball style tourney, you get it that I think that's not for football...and you get it that I think that the regular season in basketball is not that important and I think that the regular season in football is is. I get it that you think in terms of March Madness...

We have said it all...

 

[CL82]

Your thing is not posting your position or thoughts..and it is not a "conversation" with you..it is cutesy game playing....my thoughts are quite coherent, You don't agree with them, so you play your games...

I get it that you want a basketball style tourney, you get it that I think that's not for football...and you get it that I think that the regular season in basketball is not that important and I think that the regular season in football is is. I get it that you think in terms of March Madness...

We have said it all...

Lol, I'm sorry if you feel threatened by someone disagreeing with you, but that's pretty standard fair for a message board.

FWIW, I still don't understand what your concern is, because you've been all over the place. I mean now you are drifting off to a "basketball style tourney" red herring. You understand no one is suggesting a 64 team playoff, right? Do you understand why that would not work logistically with football?

 

[huskysupporter]

No...football isn't basketball....in basketball, if you catch a couple of elite players and have serviceable support...you can be a NC contender....

Not so in football.......

And, in football, with only 12 games in regular season...the regular season is part of the playoff....

And, in the basketball tourney, fully half of the seeds have never, ever, won an NC...seeds 9-16 are just there to cheer Cinderella's but have no chance to win the tournament...and they have not.

We don't whine that seeds #1-3 have won 87% of the tournaments...because we actually think that seeds #9-16 could...despite the history...magical thinking at its best.

Point noted that 9-16 seeds haven’t won the tourney. But there are four different regions. So if we want to compare to football on a 16 team playoff, it would be akin to 4 seeds in basketball. And four seeds have won.

And I would also note that number one seeds are often knocked out in basketball by lower seeds - sometimes significantly lower.

16 teams is perfect for football. This avoids excluding teams that can actually win it all. Sometimes a team might have a great record in a P5 conference but actually be overrated - let’s use FSU as an example. I forget the year but they were a 3 seed and got embarrassed by 40 points in the opening round. There is no way that you can tell me there werent multiple teams equally deserving that year.

 

[Husky25]

I think they should forget AQ's all together....

If you want to expand...go with the best teams...if you have to use a computer rather than a committee, just do it....

Last year...If they had gone with the Massey Composite,,,Dec 19, 2020

1,,,Alabama
2...Clemson
3...Ohio State
4...Notre Dame
5...Cincinnati
6...Texas A&M
7...Oklahoma
8...Georgia
9....BYU
10...Indiana
11...Florida
12...Iowa State

AQ's make The Tournament interesting. It would do the same in football. You want to get into the tournament? Earn it. Don't rely on the name recognition. Oh, one more thing: No single conference gets more than 3 teams.

Not everyone had the same number of data points in 2020, so for 2019:

ACC-Clemson (3)
Big XII-Oklahoma (4)
Big Ten-tOSU (1)
SEC-LSU (2)
PAC12-Oregon (5)

G5:
Memphis (9; 11/12 team field)
Boise State (10, 12/12)

WC:
Georgia (6)
Wisconsin (7)
Penn State (8)
Florida (9 only in a 12 team field)
Notre Dame (10 only in a 12 team field)

Play in round match-ups for a 10 team set up would be:
Boise St. at Wisconsin
Memphis at Penn State

Round 1:
OSU vs. lowest remaining of BSU/MU/PSU
LSU vs. 2nd lowest remaining of Wisc./MU/PSU
Georgia at Clemson
Oregon at Oklahoma

Semis (Neutral site Bowl location)
Highest remaining seed vs. Lowest remaining
Middle seeds

In a 12 team format, OSU, LSU, Clemson, and, Oklahoma get byes and 1st rd. matchups would be Boise St. at Oregon, Memphis at Georgia, Notre Dame at Wisconsin, and Florida at Penn State. Again, re-seed after every round.

The betting, thereby interest, thereby ratings, and thereby money would be through the freaking roof.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[billybud]

Point noted that 9-16 seeds haven’t won the tourney. But there are four different regions. So if we want to compare to football on a 16 team playoff, it would be akin to 4 seeds in basketball. And four seeds have won.

And I would also note that number one seeds are often knocked out in basketball by lower seeds - sometimes significantly lower.

16 teams is perfect for football. This avoids excluding teams that can actually win it all. Sometimes a team might have a great record in a P5 conference but actually be overrated - let’s use FSU as an example. I forget the year but they were a 3 seed and got embarrassed by 40 points in the opening round. There is no way that you can tell me there werent multiple teams equally deserving that year.

Yes...a good team can have a bad game or match up in the playoff as FSU did with Oregon...or Ohio State did when they were waxed 31-0 and 49-28 by Clemson, or Alabama when beaten 44-16 in the championship game by Clemson....Alabama blasting the Buckeyes 52-24...or LSU beating Oklahoma 63-28....or Alabama beating Michigan State 38-0....etc.

 

[Husky25]

Yes...a good team can have a bad game or match up in the playoff as FSU did with Oregon...or Ohio State did when they were waxed 31-0 and 49-28 by Clemson, or Alabama when beaten 44-16 in the championship game by Clemson....Alabama blasting the Buckeyes 52-24...or LSU beating Oklahoma 63-28....or Alabama beating Michigan State 38-0....etc.

What's your point? Are you trying to say the selection process should guard against a powerhouse from being upset?

 

[billybud]

RE Basketball seeding and results

#1 seeds...

first round....139-1
2nd round....132-8
3rd round.....119-21
4th round.....111-29
5th round.... .90-50

 

[billybud]

What's your point?

16 teams is perfect for football. This avoids excluding teams that can actually win it all. Sometimes a team might have a great record in a P5 conference but actually be overrated - let’s use FSU as an example. I forget the year but they were a 3 seed and got embarrassed by 40 points in the opening round. There is no way that you can tell me there werent multiple teams equally deserving that year.

I see you edited....but my point was agreeing with your point that there are some lopsided scores among the 1-4 seeds..

 

[billybud]

But...saying that....if you use the logic about having a great record in a P5 conference and may be over rated...does that not hold as true for a great record in a G5 conference?

Without a crystal ball...it is hard to say...

 

[Husky25]

RE Basketball seeding and results

#1 seeds...

first round....139-1
2nd round....132-8
3rd round.....119-21
4th round.....111-29
5th round.... .90-50

This analogy doesn't translate.

The 1 seeds in basketball are supposed to be the 4 best teams in the country. Seeds 64-68 are probably in the low 200s. It doesn't mean the 16s aren't afforded a seat at the table or don't get to play the games. The tournament is their reward.

The Football Tournament (As I had laid out) would be a selection of 10 or 12 teams from the top 25. I hope they don't go to 16. I don't think there is enough reward for the top seeds.

 

[Husky25]

I see you edited....but my point was agreeing with your point that there are some lopsided scores among the 1-4 seeds..

But...saying that....if you use the logic about having a great record in a P5 conference and may be over rated...does that not hold as true for a great record in a G5 conference?

Without a crystal ball...it is hard to say...

I did edit, but I think your response is meant for @huskysupporter .

 

[huskysupporter]

But...saying that....if you use the logic about having a great record in a P5 conference and may be over rated...does that not hold as true for a great record in a G5 conference?

Without a crystal ball...it is hard to say...

That’s the point. Expand the field to 16 and let it play out. Get a couple G5 in there. Get some more P5 in there. And let them play.

 

[billybud]

That’s the point. Expand the field to 16 and let it play out. Get a couple G5 in there. Get some more P5 in there. And let them play.

I don't mind expansion...just seed the teams based on merit....no AQ's....

No automatic places for G5 or, for that matter, P5.....seed on merit best as is possible.

Heck, if the G5 are good enough to put six in the playoff...let them play...but no freebies....

 

[Husky25]

That’s the point. Expand the field to 16 and let it play out. Get a couple G5 in there. Get some more P5 in there. And let them play.

Can't do that. No, no, no, Sir.

The Committee is responsible to not make Alabama look bad.

What if, say, UCF were to beat Auburn...and it counted?

 

[billybud]

But Auburn had to be a top team and not a three loss team already beaten by Clemson and two SEC teams.

 

[billybud]

I do stipulate that an undefeated UCF did beat a three loss Auburn by 7 in a very good game to watch....and UCF did look as good as Clemson against Auburn...but not as good as Georgia.

And, if Auburn was in a field of 12 to 16 with UCF...UCF would have advanced.

 

[Husky25]

I do stipulate that an undefeated UCF did beat a three loss Auburn by 7 in a very good game to watch....

And, if Auburn was in a field of 12 to 16 with UCF...UCF would have advanced.

I'm referring to the ready made excuses immediately after the final gun that the Mighty SEC team took an obviously inferior G5 program lightly.

To me, not having AQs or a guaranteed G5 slot or two is probably a non-starter, but for whatever reason, you seem afraid of an upset. The potential for an upset is what makes sports more entertaining, not less.

The snowflaky P5 (+Notre Dame) set up is what has driven down ratings in the first place.

 

[billybud]

UCF was ranked #8 in the CFP rankings in 2018....they would have played in an 8 team format...

 

[billybud]

I'm referring to the ready made excuses immediately after the final gun that the Mighty SEC team took an obviously inferior G5 program lightly.

To me, not having AQs or a guaranteed G5 slot or two is probably a non-starter, but for whatever reason, you seem afraid of an upset. The potential for an upset is what makes sports more entertaining, not less.

The snowflaky P5 (+Notre Dame) set up is what has driven down ratings in the first place.

Why do you assume that I am afraid of an upset...it happens on football Saturdays...I am adamant about what I do not like...and that is automatic "places"....

I don't like AQ's in the basketball tournament either...use whatever merit methodology you want but buck the societal trend to have inclusion for inclusion's sake....

For gawd's sake...if you want to watch a 16 seed play, you'd better catch the first game or you won't see them (at least in 139 of 140 cases)... why bother except for the appearance of exclusion.

 

[Husky25]

UCF was ranked #8 in the CFP rankings in 2018....they would have played in an 8 team format...

And they had to go 25-0 over two seasons to be ranked #8 in 2018. They went from #7 in January 2018 to #19 in August. Oklahoma went from #8 to #6.

 

[Husky25]

Why do you assume that I am afraid of an upset...it happens on football Saturdays...I am adamant about what I do not like...and that is automatic "places"....

I don't like AQ's in the basketball tournament either...use whatever merit methodology you want but buck the societal trend to have inclusion for inclusion's sake....

For gawd's sake...if you want to watch a 16 seed play, you'd better catch the first game or you won't see them (at least in 139 of 140 cases)... why bother except for the appearance of exclusion.

If no AQ, then there is no reason to have a Conference Championship Game. Heck there is no reason to have conferences at all.

Going back to 80% of Div. 1 being Independent is the pretty much the only way for no AQs to work. If P-5 University presidents agree to that, they would be fired by proxy and find out via text message within 15 minutes.