College Football Playoff Looking At Expanded Field Options

[billybud]

RE Basketball seeding and results

#1 seeds...

first round....139-1
2nd round....132-8
3rd round.....119-21
4th round.....111-29
5th round.... .90-50

 

[billybud]

What's your point?

16 teams is perfect for football. This avoids excluding teams that can actually win it all. Sometimes a team might have a great record in a P5 conference but actually be overrated - let’s use FSU as an example. I forget the year but they were a 3 seed and got embarrassed by 40 points in the opening round. There is no way that you can tell me there werent multiple teams equally deserving that year.

I see you edited....but my point was agreeing with your point that there are some lopsided scores among the 1-4 seeds..

 

[billybud]

But...saying that....if you use the logic about having a great record in a P5 conference and may be over rated...does that not hold as true for a great record in a G5 conference?

Without a crystal ball...it is hard to say...

 

[Husky25]

RE Basketball seeding and results

#1 seeds...

first round....139-1
2nd round....132-8
3rd round.....119-21
4th round.....111-29
5th round.... .90-50

This analogy doesn't translate.

The 1 seeds in basketball are supposed to be the 4 best teams in the country. Seeds 64-68 are probably in the low 200s. It doesn't mean the 16s aren't afforded a seat at the table or don't get to play the games. The tournament is their reward.

The Football Tournament (As I had laid out) would be a selection of 10 or 12 teams from the top 25. I hope they don't go to 16. I don't think there is enough reward for the top seeds.

 

[Husky25]

I see you edited....but my point was agreeing with your point that there are some lopsided scores among the 1-4 seeds..

But...saying that....if you use the logic about having a great record in a P5 conference and may be over rated...does that not hold as true for a great record in a G5 conference?

Without a crystal ball...it is hard to say...

I did edit, but I think your response is meant for @huskysupporter .

 

[huskysupporter]

But...saying that....if you use the logic about having a great record in a P5 conference and may be over rated...does that not hold as true for a great record in a G5 conference?

Without a crystal ball...it is hard to say...

That’s the point. Expand the field to 16 and let it play out. Get a couple G5 in there. Get some more P5 in there. And let them play.

 

[billybud]

That’s the point. Expand the field to 16 and let it play out. Get a couple G5 in there. Get some more P5 in there. And let them play.

I don't mind expansion...just seed the teams based on merit....no AQ's....

No automatic places for G5 or, for that matter, P5.....seed on merit best as is possible.

Heck, if the G5 are good enough to put six in the playoff...let them play...but no freebies....

 

[Husky25]

That’s the point. Expand the field to 16 and let it play out. Get a couple G5 in there. Get some more P5 in there. And let them play.

Can't do that. No, no, no, Sir.

The Committee is responsible to not make Alabama look bad.

What if, say, UCF were to beat Auburn...and it counted?

 

[billybud]

But Auburn had to be a top team and not a three loss team already beaten by Clemson and two SEC teams.

 

[billybud]

I do stipulate that an undefeated UCF did beat a three loss Auburn by 7 in a very good game to watch....and UCF did look as good as Clemson against Auburn...but not as good as Georgia.

And, if Auburn was in a field of 12 to 16 with UCF...UCF would have advanced.

 

[Husky25]

I do stipulate that an undefeated UCF did beat a three loss Auburn by 7 in a very good game to watch....

And, if Auburn was in a field of 12 to 16 with UCF...UCF would have advanced.

I'm referring to the ready made excuses immediately after the final gun that the Mighty SEC team took an obviously inferior G5 program lightly.

To me, not having AQs or a guaranteed G5 slot or two is probably a non-starter, but for whatever reason, you seem afraid of an upset. The potential for an upset is what makes sports more entertaining, not less.

The snowflaky P5 (+Notre Dame) set up is what has driven down ratings in the first place.

 

[billybud]

UCF was ranked #8 in the CFP rankings in 2018....they would have played in an 8 team format...

 

[billybud]

I'm referring to the ready made excuses immediately after the final gun that the Mighty SEC team took an obviously inferior G5 program lightly.

To me, not having AQs or a guaranteed G5 slot or two is probably a non-starter, but for whatever reason, you seem afraid of an upset. The potential for an upset is what makes sports more entertaining, not less.

The snowflaky P5 (+Notre Dame) set up is what has driven down ratings in the first place.

Why do you assume that I am afraid of an upset...it happens on football Saturdays...I am adamant about what I do not like...and that is automatic "places"....

I don't like AQ's in the basketball tournament either...use whatever merit methodology you want but buck the societal trend to have inclusion for inclusion's sake....

For gawd's sake...if you want to watch a 16 seed play, you'd better catch the first game or you won't see them (at least in 139 of 140 cases)... why bother except for the appearance of exclusion.

 

[Husky25]

UCF was ranked #8 in the CFP rankings in 2018....they would have played in an 8 team format...

And they had to go 25-0 over two seasons to be ranked #8 in 2018. They went from #7 in January 2018 to #19 in August. Oklahoma went from #8 to #6.

 

[Husky25]

Why do you assume that I am afraid of an upset...it happens on football Saturdays...I am adamant about what I do not like...and that is automatic "places"....

I don't like AQ's in the basketball tournament either...use whatever merit methodology you want but buck the societal trend to have inclusion for inclusion's sake....

For gawd's sake...if you want to watch a 16 seed play, you'd better catch the first game or you won't see them (at least in 139 of 140 cases)... why bother except for the appearance of exclusion.

If no AQ, then there is no reason to have a Conference Championship Game. Heck there is no reason to have conferences at all.

Going back to 80% of Div. 1 being Independent is the pretty much the only way for no AQs to work. If P-5 University presidents agree to that, they would be fired by proxy and find out via text message within 15 minutes.

 

[CL82]

But...saying that....if you use the logic about having a great record in a P5 conference and may be over rated...does that not hold as true for a great record in a G5 conference?

Without a crystal ball...it is hard to say...

Isn't that an argument for playing the game?

 

[CL82]

For gawd's sake...if you want to watch a 16 seed play, you'd better catch the first game or you won't see them (at least in 139 of 140 cases)... why bother except for the appearance of exclusion.

Isn't that an argument against playing any game? Just rank the teams at the start the season and declare a champion.

 

[billybud]

If no AQ, then there is no reason to have a Conference Championship Game. Heck there is no reason to have conferences at all.

Going back to 80% of Div. 1 being Independent is the pretty much the only way for no AQs to work. If P-5 University presidents agree to that, they would be fired by proxy and find out via text message within 15 minutes.

In most of my lifetime, teams fought to be conference champions...the post season and bowls were a reward trip for players and fans...but pretty remote from a national championship.

The American need to declare a definitive #1 (rather than AP and UPI) created the BCS and the current CFP.

Maybe we look at things differently in the south...where conference play against rivals is the season...on Saturdays, hordes of cars caravan across the south with team flags flying...It's about Alabama v Auburn, Georgia v Florida, FSU v Miami, UNC v NC State...With only four teams competing in the CFP.....playing for the championship is fairly remote for most fans.

I have no problem with any team being included in a playoff....on merit....

Isn't that an argument against playing any game? Just rank the teams at the start the season and declare a champion.

No...just more of your cute games...It is what it is...Sixteen seeds have almost a zero chance (.7%) to advance in the basketball tourney...why play the game when the end result is everything but predetermined. And you bet, it is an argument about why play a 16 seed against a #1 seed....play 140 times and lose 139....

 

[Husky25]

In most of my lifetime, teams fought to be conference champions...the post season and bowls were a reward trip for players and fans...but pretty remote from a national championship.

The American need to declare a definitive #1 (rather than AP and UPI) created the BCS and the current CFP.

Maybe we look at things differently in the south...where conference play against rivals is the season...on Saturdays, hordes of cars caravan across the south with team flags flying...It's about Alabama v Auburn, Georgia v Florida, FSU v Miami, UNC v NC State...With only four teams competing in the CFP.....playing for the championship is fairly remote for most fans.

I have no problem with any team being included in a playoff....on merit....


No...just more of your cute games...It is what it is...Sixteen seeds have almost a zero chance (.7%) to advance in the basketball tourney...why play the game when the end result is everything but predetermined. And you bet, it is an argument about why play a 16 seed against a #1 seed....play 140 times and lose 139....

Money has rendered the above nearly 100% moot and whatever you remember happening for most of your lifetime, no longer applies.

Bowl games used to matter. Now the vast majority are exhibitions, worthy of being skipped by high draft picks, and loss leaders for the programs who participate in them. 3 postseason games matter. That is it and since the advent of the CFP, those have been largely boring and low rated. The P-5 is smothering the golden goose.

 

[CL82]

In most of my lifetime, teams fought to be conference champions...the post season and bowls were a reward trip for players and fans...but pretty remote from a national championship.

The American need to declare a definitive #1 (rather than AP and UPI) created the BCS and the current CFP.

Maybe we look at things differently in the south...where conference play against rivals is the season...on Saturdays, hordes of cars caravan across the south with team flags flying...It's about Alabama v Auburn, Georgia v Florida, FSU v Miami, UNC v NC State...With only four teams competing in the CFP.....playing for the championship is fairly remote for most fans.

I have no problem with any team being included in a playoff....on merit....


No...just more of your cute games...It is what it is...Sixteen seeds have almost a zero chance (.7%) to advance in the basketball tourney...why play the game when the end result is everything but predetermined. And you bet, it is an argument about why play a 16 seed against a #1 seed....play 140 times and lose 139....

So... where do you envision a 16 seed in say 12 team playoff? Just wondering.

 

[Husky25]

So... where do you envision a 16 seed in say 12 team playoff? Just wondering.

It's a false analogy to begin with.

A 16 seed in the Basketball Tournament is a low major program, ranked in the 200s. The 12 seed in a football playoff (at least as I laid out earlier) would theoretically still be in the top 20.

 

[CL82]

It's a false analogy to begin with.

A 16 seed in the Basketball Tournament is a low major program, ranked in the 200s. The 12 seed in football playoff (at least as I laid out earlier) would theoretically still be in the top 20.

The 12th team would be the equivalent of a three seed in the basketball tournament.

 

[DoctorWho85]

This analogy doesn't translate.

The 1 seeds in basketball are supposed to be the 4 best teams in the country. Seeds 64-68 are probably in the low 200s. It doesn't mean the 16s aren't afforded a seat at the table or don't get to play the games. The tournament is their reward.

The Football Tournament (As I had laid out) would be a selection of 10 or 12 teams from the top 25. I hope they don't go to 16. I don't think there is enough reward for the top seeds.

There is plenty reward in a 16 team playoff. Like home field advantage for the first two games. Bare minimum should be 12 with all conference champs getting an auto bid and 2 at large. But the SEC and Big 10 will cry about that and it'll get pushed to 16 so both SEC and BIG 10 get 2-3 teams every year.

 

[Husky25]

There is plenty reward in a 16 team playoff. Like home field advantage for the first two games. Bare minimum should be 12 with all conference champs getting an auto bid and 2 at large. But the SEC and Big 10 will cry about that and it'll get pushed to 16 so both SEC and BIG 10 get 2-3 teams every year.

While 10 Auto bids with only 2 WC might be fair what "should" happen, it's unrealistic. For one thing, The P-5 will never agree to expand G5 NYD6 bids from 1 to 5. For another, it doesn't leave enough room when Notre Dame makes their semi-decade run.

 

[ScottVib]

The point of 12 will be to have AQs and ensure that they solve the geographic spread "problem". They'll be 6; P5 champs + one G5 team. Then 6 WCs probably determined by the same/similar committee rankings as the current playoff.

12 will become 16 fairly quickly as it won't require adding any weeks/weekends to the season, but will add inventory (and slots for more P5 teams and perhaps a random G5 every few years). The G5 won't get more than one AQ unless/until they are willing to expand out another weekend in a move to 24 (putting it at par with FCS).