Clingan 3 pt shooting- get on the record

[Mr. French]

This is not how I remember it. Sanogo attempted 1.3 3's per game and made 36%. That's good, but as I remember it, he was wide open on almost all of them. If his defender had come out to defend the perimeter, he passed and let his teammates play with the extra space.

Did his shooting threat "force the defense to step out and guard him"? I don't think so. Sometimes they did step out, but more often than not they didn't. He took his time to line up his shot and usually the defense was happy to give him that time.

If he had been a lousy 3 point shooter, those 52 three-point shots go away. We probably would have made 1 point per possession on those 52 possessions, and so his 3 point shooting may have gotten us an extra 5-10 points over the course of the season. I don't think of that as a "big weapon". It seems like you might agree, since after a few sentences "big weapon" faded to "wasn't a focus ... just a nice option to have".

100%.

His 3 point shot was necessary for his development, a year later in development, and still rarely used.

 

[navery12]

an objective opinion based on very small sample size of nine shots over 2 years? lol...the argument you guys are giving is that:
a)he wasnt a good enough three pt shooter to take them at UCOnn
b)he will be good 3 pt shooter once he gets nba coaching

how do you jive Billups comments raving about his 3 pt shooting now?

Its a copout to say he will be a good shooter in future, when Billups is saying thats why he drafted him NOW.

Read/listen to Billups actual quotes about DC above.

But that sample size is very telling, good shooters take shots and he didn't which is why I made my comment.

I read and listened to Billups quotes, he's talking about his shooting in drills and workouts. We know he was capable of that at UConn so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take away from that. Everyone here agrees he was capable of that

 

[FreeKlaiber]

But that sample size is very telling, good shooters take shots and he didn't which is why I made my comment.

I read and listened to Billups quotes, he's talking about his shooting in drills and workouts. We know he was capable of that at UConn so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take away from that. Everyone here agrees he was capable of that

Billups didnt rave about his shooting because they are excited that he can knock down 3's in practice

Its because they are FORECASTING that he will make them in games. Pre-NBA coaching. This year. We will see if he gets the green light like Billups claims, and we will have tangible results to measure, for those who get on the record.

Posters like to limit our players futures based on stats alone or what have you shown so far. I get that until it happens on the court in a game, it doesnt matter, its just conjecture. However It doesnt mean it wont happen.

One of the more supposed knowledgeable posters talked about how Castle wouldnt be able to guard opposing PG based on HS film. This was said more than once. Others bash Reed's stats at Mich or Solo Ball's assist usage numbers. This doesnt forecast what they will become, what skillset they might have, but rather it limits them to a simple repeat of the past.

Clingan showed he could shoot pre-game. The assumption that he couldnt make them in games is unfounded based on sample size. He did not have green light it seems. Only the coaching staff knows why. I personally dont think its because he cant shoot the 3, but rather our potent offense was better served doing exactly what we did.

We will see this year.

 

[navery12]

This is not how I remember it. Sanogo attempted 1.3 3's per game and made 36%. That's good, but as I remember it, he was wide open on almost all of them. If his defender had come out to defend the perimeter, he passed and let his teammates play with the extra space.

Did his shooting threat "force the defense to step out and guard him"? I don't think so. Sometimes they did step out, but more often than not they didn't. He took his time to line up his shot and usually the defense was happy to give him that time.

If he had been a lousy 3 point shooter, those 52 three-point shots go away. We probably would have made 1 point per possession on those 52 possessions, and so his 3 point shooting may have gotten us an extra 5-10 points over the course of the season. I don't think of that as a "big weapon". It seems like you might agree, since after a few sentences "big weapon" faded to "wasn't a focus ... just a nice option to have".

But that's exactly my point. Sanogo taking those open 3's when the defense didn't step out and knocking down a solid percentage of them is exactly what made them step out later and allow him to pass the ball for a high percentage shot. That's the advantage, just the threat of a shot is what makes it tough on defenses and was a big part of our success

 

[navery12]

Billups didnt rave about his shooting because they are excited that he can knock down 3's in practice

Its because they are FORECASTING that he will make them in games. Pre-NBA coaching. This year. We will see if he gets the green light like Billups claims, and we will have tangible results to measure, for those who get on the record.

Posters like to limit our players futures based on stats alone or what have you shown so far. I get that until it happens on the court in a game, it doesnt matter, its just conjecture. However It doesnt mean it wont happen.

One of the more supposed knowledgeable posters talked about how Castle wouldnt be able to guard opposing PG based on HS film. This was said more than once. Others bash Reed's stats at Mich or Solo Ball's assist usage numbers. This doesnt forecast what they will become, what skillset they might have, but rather it limits them to a simple repeat of the past.

Clingan showed he could shoot pre-game. The assumption that he couldnt make them in games, is unfounded based on sample size. He did not have green light it seems. Only the coaching staff knows why. I personally dont think its because he cant shoot the 3, but rather potent offense better served doing what we did.

We will see this year.

But it's not pre-NBA coaching. He's going to have 4 months of NBA coaching before he even steps onto the floor. And we've already seen with Andre Jackson the type of jump someone can make with that coaching. I agree there's no reason to think Donovan can't do the same

 

[FreeKlaiber]

But it's not pre-NBA coaching. He's going to have 4 months of NBA coaching before he even steps onto the floor. And we've already seen with Andre Jackson the type of jump someone can make with that coaching. I agree there's no reason to think Donovan can't do the same

keep standing on the fence

they drafted him for his 3 pt shooting NOW, as seen in workouts. Billups said he was blown away

He's not good enough to shoot them at Uconn but good enough for Portland GM to talk about designing plays to take advantage of his 3 pt shooting right after the draft.

OK

 

[husky429]

You're really gonna die on this hill aren't you. I guarantee you the coaches would say its not the exact same offense as they ran with Adama. You should have a private conversation with Hurley and he can explain it to you.

We litigated this a week ago dude. Give it to the jury

 

[UC0NN]

Practice and drills are NOT games.

That said, if you can't hit them in Practice you certainly won't hit them in games. The reverse is not necessarily true.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

Yes 100%. And Hurley also said it would help the offense all off-season and then never brought it into games, which is why I read it as he didn't have confidence in him making 3's. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems pretty straightforward to me

I can't remember exactly when, but Dan Hurley did an interview with Goodman after one of our games. I believe it was one of the games where DC made a 3 (Providence or X???), at least i think it was after one of those. It was a longer form interview, maybe 10 min or so.
During that interview, Dan Hurley said clearly that he wanted Donovan taking 1 3 per half. If the 1 went in, take more. If not, stop for the half.

I honestly think it was just DC's confidence in that shot. He would look for a better shot instead.

I'll look and see if i can find the interview, although i certainly don't blame anyone for having not listened, or not listening now. Goodman is awful.

 

[Tenspro2002]

He was not a good 3 point shooter in games, that is an objective opinion based on stats. I fully believe the Blazers saw his as a good shooter in workouts, he did the same thing at UConn when warming up every game. It just never translated into games.

I fully expect him to be a good shooter in the NBA, the ability to do nothing but basketball will make a huge difference. We saw what it did for Andre Jackson and he was starting from a much lower point than Donovan. His form looks great, he'll get there just like he did with his FT shooting

By "never translated into games" you mean "never got the chance" and not "proved he was a bad shooter," right?

 

[Fan1978]

This narrative is odd. Donovan had ample opportunity to shoot 3s. It's the same offense Adama took 75 3s in. He was open at the top of the key 20x a game. Donovan wasn't taking 3s because he wasn't a good enough shooter to benefit our team.

Luke isn't saying "don't shoot 3s because you're tall"... he's saying "don't shoot 3s because you aren't going to help us win shooting at your %.

He'll get there soon with NBA coaching.

Adama was 6’8”. Donovan is 7’2” and his supporting cast were better 3 point shooters. He can shoot the 3 but not as good as most of his teammates. He did what was best for the team. 2 championships so no second guessing needed

 

[auror]

The argument that Clingan was a good three point shooter last year but was handcuffed by the system is a weird one because it implies the coaching staff were kind of dumb in how they used Clingan.

UConn's offense last year was far better than any NBA offense from an efficiency standpoint. There is absolutely a window where he could be considered a "good enough to shoot when wide open" shooter in an average NBA offense and also be a net negative to OUR offense last season, because we were so often able to get wide open layups and just open shots for even better shooters.

36% from 3 is 1.08 ppp plus chance of points offensive rebound, which would put it at roughly NBA average PPP. We scored 1.26ppp last season.

 

[superjohn]

UConn's offense last year was far better than any NBA offense from an efficiency standpoint. There is absolutely a window where he could be considered a "good enough to shoot when wide open" shooter in an average NBA offense and also be a net negative to OUR offense last season, because we were so often able to get wide open layups and just open shots for even better shooters.

36% from 3 is 1.08 ppp plus chance of points offensive rebound, which would put it at roughly NBA average PPP. We scored 1.26ppp last season.

Exactly, there was no point in Clingan shooting threes. Our offense was a fine tuned machine and always got the easiest looks.

 

[awy]

clingan had efg% of .650ish last season, which means he'd have to shoot 3's at a 42% clip to break even. it's also got soemthing to do with them wanting a one two punch with the centers. clingan being a post big can force a match up problem on the opposition.

they basically always want to create easy shots at the basket, lobs/cuts, threes are kind of the second best kind of shot.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

UConn's offense last year was far better than any NBA offense from an efficiency standpoint. There is absolutely a window where he could be considered a "good enough to shoot when wide open" shooter in an average NBA offense and also be a net negative to OUR offense last season, because we were so often able to get wide open layups and just open shots for even better shooters.

36% from 3 is 1.08 ppp plus chance of points offensive rebound, which would put it at roughly NBA average PPP. We scored 1.26ppp last season.

If the staff felt Clingan could knock down 3’s at 36%, he’d have been taking 1-2 a game solely to pull the opposing big out to the 3 point line. It’s not all about PPP off the specific shot, it’s about dragging a rim defender out of the paint further. Of course there’s a reason all of that didn’t happen, because Clingan was not YET good enough of a shooter to do that in the staff’s eyes.

 

[Kolumbo]

This makes no sense to me. Chauncey Billups was himself a 6'3" point guard. DC was a 7'2" center on a 2-time national championship team. I don't believe Chauncey would ask why DC didn't shoot more when Hurley and The UConn Team obviously had outstanding results. Seems like some fluff or something.

 

[HuskyHawk]

There’s a big difference in shooting in practice and in game situations. He has a nice stroke and as he matures will bury that shit in games. He wasn’t really ready to take many in games last year. It also Wouldn’t surprise me if FT shooting was linked. When you are making 70+% on FTs then you can shoot. I’m sure he shoots FTs better in practice too. He had a tendency to rush shots, even around the rim. It will all slow down for him soon.

 

[caw]

I think DC will be a good shooter from the FT line and from three eventually. If I were to guess I'd say by his third year. The kid has good touch and decent form. It's a bit slow from 3 but the form isn't horrid.

I'll also jump on the Castle will be a good shooter eventually.

 

[JustbrewitMan]

Donovan will shoot a volume of at least 0.75 3’s/game next year and will make at least 37%

 

[ctbro1999]

I think he will take less than 25 his rookie season and will ramp it up after that

My hot take is he'll launch more this coming season than Jackson did this past season.

 

[jibsey]

Did Patrick Ewing shoot outside shots at Georgetown? How bout in the NBA? He evolved.
As he goes along and knows he can do it he will be a great shooter, but it may take a couple years.

 

[husky429]

There’s a big difference in shooting in practice and in game situations. He has a nice stroke and as he matures will bury that in games. He wasn’t really ready to take many in games last year. It also Wouldn’t surprise me if FT shooting was linked. When you are making 70+% on FTs then you can shoot. I’m sure he shoots FTs better in practice too. He had a tendency to rush shots, even around the rim. It will all slow down for him soon.

It's really as simple as this. Some folks in this thread don't understand shooting... I'm guessing they weren't players. The takes are astoundingly bad.

I shot >60% from 3 in practice during college. My most important job for the team was farting to warm up seats before the starters rotated out of the game at the under-16. I was genuinely terrible. Castle himself shot, what, 80% from 3 at the combine? The difference between practice and game speed, while you're exhausted, with a 6'10 beast sprinting at you is night and day.

Chauncey is hyping up his guy in this video. That is a good thing. It signals--like all UConn fans knew--that Clingan has decent form and enough reps to have some potential shooting the ball and they're going to work to help him build it.

 

[JohnFSilver]

This narrative is odd. Donovan had ample opportunity to shoot 3s. It's the same offense Adama took 75 3s in. He was open at the top of the key 20x a game. Donovan wasn't taking 3s because he wasn't a good enough shooter to benefit our team.

Luke isn't saying "don't shoot 3s because you're tall"... he's saying "don't shoot 3s because you aren't going to help us win shooting at your %.

He'll get there soon with NBA coaching.

The college game doesn’t really need Donovan shooting 3s. Do you want Donovan hunting 3s in college game or the other 4 guys?

They really didn’t need to showcase his shot.

At nba level he is going to shoot that shot to get his defender Away from basket and allow scoot and Simmons to attack the basket.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Did Patrick Ewing shoot outside shots at Georgetown? How bout in the NBA? He evolved.
As he goes along and knows he can do it he will be a great shooter, but it may take a couple years.

When you think about it. Ewing became the greatest jump shooting center of all time.

When I think of Ewing I think of a 10-foot fadeaway jumper.

 

[Deleted at users request]

If he had been able to take shoot 3's our offense would have been significantly better. Obviously it didn't matter, but imagine the lanes for Karaban to cut to the basket if Clingan is pulling his man out of the paint

Instead guys had easy drives to the rim because if Clingan’s man helped off him it was an alley oop dunk. Something he could make 99% of the time.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Can someone name these role playing big men in the NBA that are shooting 3s in todays NBA that explains this narrative centers have to shoot in todays league?

 

[Umami Zen]

Donovan has been told for two years that part of his appeal at the next level in today's NBA is his ability to space the floor-make an occasional three-play defense and rim-protect. This year's UConn team was so efficient on offense that there was no need for Donovan to explore that shot in games. If you watch him in warmups/workouts/shooting drills/NBA tryouts- You can see that he has decent form -a good looking shot-with decent made percentages for a Big.

Had he been on a less efficient offensive team with a more willing HC (green light) Maybe he would have shot more of them. It remains to be seen whether that part of his game will be among his bag of tricks for the Blazers but it appears that Billups is more open-minded to the idea than Danny was. All of the young Bigs coming out of CBB want to be Jokic. LOL..Making threes or the threat of making threes opens up lanes for guards and wings to attack the hoop with the rim protector out of the lane. That's what Billups is excited about.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

The college game doesn’t really need Donovan shooting 3s. Do you want Donovan hunting 3s in college game or the other 4 guys?

They really didn’t need to showcase his shot.

At nba level he is going to shoot that shot to get his defender Away from basket and allow scoot and Simmons to attack the basket.

I don’t understand this point of view. Is the argument that Clingan pulling the opposing 5 away from the paint would not have benefited our offense last year? I get we were elite, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t room for marginal improvement.

 

[Deleted at users request]

The college game doesn’t really need Donovan shooting 3s. Do you want Donovan hunting 3s in college game or the other 4 guys?

They really didn’t need to showcase his shot.

At nba level he is going to shoot that shot to get his defender Away from basket and allow scoot and Simmons to attack the basket.

I don’t understand the thought of him shooting a 30% 3 point shot being a more effective way of spacing the floor than him being a lob threat at the rim.

 

[caw]

It's really as simple as this. Some folks in this thread don't understand shooting... I'm guessing they weren't players. The takes are astoundingly bad.

I shot >60% from 3 in practice during college. My most important job for the team was farting to warm up seats before the starters rotated out of the game at the under-16. I was genuinely terrible. Castle himself shot, what, 80% from 3 at the combine? The difference between practice and game speed, while you're exhausted, with a 6'10 beast sprinting at you is night and day.

Chauncey is hyping up his guy in this video. That is a good thing. It signals--like all UConn fans knew--that Clingan has decent form and enough reps to have some potential shooting the ball and they're going to work to help him build it.

Only one thing, there were some anecdotes before the draft that Castle wasn't even a good shooter in warm-ups this year. The 80% is good for putting some worries to bed.

I would bet Castle wasn't as bad as some people were painting him to be, but does have some obvious flaws. You could see his shot was much better as the season progressed. His early season misses were way off. I'd guess he's around 29-31% on about 3 attempts a game next year.

There seems to be a slight disconnect between his base and his upper body in his form, which is odd because in every other facet of the game his body is better connected than almost any player I've seen (if that makes sense).