Christain Vital Tweet

[RichZ]

CV did take more three but pretty close. Through his first three years RA was 188 of 499 behind the arc (37.7%) and CV was 199 of 549 (36.2%).

On regular FG's through three years its RA 144 of of 324 (44.4%) vs 181 of 377 (48%) for CV.

On free throws its not close. CV who is always in the middle of things, gets to the line. Through 3 years its RA 144 of 182 for 79.1% vs 269 of 333 (80.8%) for CV.

They each played in 96 games in their first 3 years, but Shad played only about 70% of the minutes in his first 3 years that CV has played. (1967 to 2891)

Beyond the scoring numbers above, CV has averaged 4.9 boards to Shad's 2.5. Even adjusted by the minute differential, that's still a rebound more per game. He also averages about 2 assists (1.4 adjusted for minutes) compared to Shad's 0.85 and steals are 1.5 (1.1 adjusted) to 0.5.

On the negative side of the scale, CV does turn the ball over more than Shad did, at 1.8 TOs per game (1.25 adjusted), as compared to Anderson's 1.1.

The difference, of course, is that Shad compiled those numbers playing in more meaningful games against a higher caliber of competition. Barring a stupendous miracle next season, CV's never going to make the All Tourney team in the NCAA tourney. But Shad had the luxury of playing with some of the best players that UConn has ever put on the court, so defenses could not afford to put their best perimeter defender on him as they often do on CV.

Rashad Anderson, more than any other non-career-starter in our team's history except perhaps TRob (coin flip close) has become legendary in UConn BB lore. Christian Vital isn't thought of in the same light, despite his edge in stats. If we were winning the way we were 15 years or so back, it might be a different story. When Shad came in and fueled a UConn rally or hit a couple clutch threes to thwart an opponent's rally and steal the momentum, it really meant something. Can't say the same for CV. But with a little good fortune, the 19-20 season could mean more than the first three years of his Husky career.

 

[Jaker]

Against good defensive teams who play man to man- CV has not been good. IMO

 

[pj]

Rashad had a little more height to get his shot off, but overall I'd rather have CV. Rashad really benefited by the great talent around him. CV needs to develop a bit more, but he showed this year that he can improve when given proper coaching. I think CV would have done as well as Rashad on those past teams, and may give us a very good year next year. Wish he had a handle and better court vision, then he might even have a shot at the NBA.

 

[businesslawyer]

I'll make it very simple for many of you. If Rashad Anderson had been on this year's team, he would have been at worst our second best player. You can't compare stats on a Top Ten team playing that level schedule to stats at the level we've been on the past three years.

Here's the stat that mattered most: Rashad Anderson as an upperclassman pushed Rudy Gay and Denham Brown off the court so he could get playing time. Do you really think CV would have been doing that? CV struggled this year to keep a grad transfer from Duquesne off the court.

 

[UCfor3]

I'll make it very simple for many of you. If Rashad Anderson had been on this year's team, he would have been at worst our second best player. You can't compare stats on a Top Ten team playing that level schedule to stats at the level we've been on the past three years.

Here's the stat that mattered most: Rashad Anderson as an upperclassman pushed Rudy Gay and Denham Brown off the court so he could get playing time. Do you really think CV would have been doing that? CV struggled this year to keep a grad transfer from Duquesne off the court.

Totally agree. Rashad was doing it against Villanova, Pitt, Syracuse, etc...in the best conference in the country and that's not even including the NCAA and Big East tourney games on the biggest stage. CV has been playing against Tulane, East Carolina and Tulsa. A couple thousand fans with rib sauce on their face and a book in their hand.

 

[superjohn]

Rashad had a little more height to get his shot off, but overall I'd rather have CV. Rashad really benefited by the great talent around him. CV needs to develop a bit more, but he showed this year that he can improve when given proper coaching. I think CV would have done as well as Rashad on those past teams, and may give us a very good year next year. Wish he had a handle and better court vision, then he might even have a shot at the NBA.

Bwhahahahahaha. This board has really been amazing the past few days!

 

[HuskyHawk]

They each played in 96 games in their first 3 years, but Shad played about 70% of the minutes in his first 3 years that CV has played. (1967 to 2891)

Beyond the scoring numbers above, CV has averaged 4.9 boards to Shad's 2.5. Even adjusted by the minute differential, that's still a rebound more per game. He also averages about 2 assists (1.4 adjusted for minutes) compared to Shad's 0.85 and steals are 1.5 (1.1 adjusted) to 0.5.

On the negative side of the scale, CV does turn the ball over more than Shad did, at 1.8 TOs per game (1.25 adjusted), as compared to Anderson's 1.1.

The difference, of course, is that Shad compiled those numbers playing in more meaningful games against a higher caliber of competition. Barring a stupendous miracle next season, CV's never going to make the All Tourney team in the NCAA tourney. But Shad had the luxury of playing with some of the best players that UConn has ever put on the court, so defenses could not afford to put their best perimeter defender on him as they often do on CV.

Rashad Anderson, more than any other non-career-starter in our team's history except perhaps TRob (coin flip close) has become legendary in UConn BB lore. Christian Vital isn't thought of in the same light, despite his edge in stats. If we were winning the way we were 15 years or so back, it might be a different story. When Shad came in and fueled a UConn rally or hit a couple clutch threes to thwart an opponent's rally and steal the momentum, it really meant something. Can't say the same for CV. But with a little good fortune, the 19-20 season could mean more than the first three years of his Husky career.

When Al went down, and then Jalen went down, CV disappeared. When he was drawing defenders that formerly would have taken the #1 and #2 guards, they shut him down pretty effectively.

I would be happy to have him back, but I hope we all recognize that, like Anderson, he doesn't create his own offense. He can score off of passes from other players, who draw the defense away from him. He's an effective shooter when catching the ball and squaring up. He is not an effective shooter off the dribble.

I've said it before, he isn't a shooting guard as a pro, in Europe or elsewhere. He has to improve his ball handling and passing. We need some depth there, and I see CV trying to fill a role like Smith had last year, with better outside shooting. I would be surprised if Christian and Hurley haven't set that as his off-season focus.

 

[Crank]

You know, these this-guy vs. that-guy arguments are difficult because support of one guy somehow is always viewed as attacking the other guy. Not really necessary.

CV and RA are/were both players with significant limitations.
CV, pending next year, played through the most difficult 3 years of our program's history.
RA played through what was arguably our best 4 years, which included a NC and a 2006 team that was among the most stacked team we ever courted.
CV played for KO, and got little or no coaching, development, or guidance - some of the worst DI coaching. This year, under Hurley, he has shown dramatic improvement. FG% up 7%, 3PT up 9% at 41%, up .7 assists, with same minutes.
RA played for JC and got the best coaching available - it's safe to say that he maxed out his potential at UConn.

RA hit multiple huge shots at huge times, which directly led to our national championship, among other things. For that, he will always be royalty. And it is exactly those shots that distinguish him.

I don't buy that "RA played against tougher competition." Sure he did, but he also played with how many? 8 future NBA players? Gordon, Oak, CV(1), Boone, Armstrong, Marcus, Gay? Lot easier to score when the other team has to worry about Ben Freaking Gordon to your left.

Also, CV had the duties of having to play point, which is not his natural position, and also carry the team at times with AG hurt and JA having no-show games. Anderson was never in that position.

I guess the brief way of saying all of that is that RA got the fruits of the heart of UConn's glory, whereas CV(2) got the detritus of our lowest time. Comparison of the two is inherently unfair.

If you look at the two players and say, "which is better?" and you continue CV(2)'s trajectory at UConn through next year, the answer, statistically, is simple - CV(2) is a significantly better player IF you don't consider the "dagger" factor.

If you were building a championship team and you were looking for a 6th man, like in 2006, you take RA. If you were slugging along through the swamp of our nadir years, you take CV.

Not sure CV could have hit the shots RA did if you put him in that spot - he's got the moxy and the shot and the Seniors, but that dagger thing is rare.

Pretty sure that if you put RA in CV's place his numbers would have been a lot worse than what he did in the 04-06 era, and he wouldn't have made any lore books.

 

[superjohn]

You know, these this-guy vs. that-guy arguments are difficult because support of one guy somehow is always viewed as attacking the other guy. Not really necessary.

CV and RA are/were both players with significant limitations.
CV, pending next year, played through the most difficult 3 years of our program's history.
RA played through what was arguably our best 4 years, which included a NC and a 2006 team that was among the most stacked team we ever courted.
CV played for KO, and got little or no coaching, development, or guidance - some of the worst DI coaching. This year, under Hurley, he has shown dramatic improvement. FG% up 7%, 3PT up 9% at 41%, up .7 assists, with same minutes.
RA played for JC and got the best coaching available - it's safe to say that he maxed out his potential at UConn.

RA hit multiple huge shots at huge times, which directly led to our national championship, among other things. For that, he will always be royalty. And it is exactly those shots that distinguish him.

I don't buy that "RA played against tougher competition." Sure he did, but he also played with how many? 8 future NBA players? Gordon, Oak, CV(1), Boone, Armstrong, Marcus, Gay? Lot easier to score when the other team has to worry about Ben Freaking Gordon to your left.

Also, CV had the duties of having to play point, which is not his natural position, and also carry the team at times with AG hurt and JA having no-show games. Anderson was never in that position.

I guess the brief way of saying all of that is that RA got the fruits of the heart of UConn's glory, whereas CV(2) got the detritus of our lowest time. Comparison of the two is inherently unfair.

If you look at the two players and say, "which is better?" and you continue CV(2)'s trajectory at UConn through next year, the answer, statistically, is simple - CV(2) is a significantly better player IF you don't consider the "dagger" factor.

If you were building a championship team and you were looking for a 6th man, like in 2006, you take RA. If you were slugging along through the swamp of our nadir years, you take CV.

Not sure CV could have hit the shots RA did if you put him in that spot - he's got the moxy and the shot and the Seniors, but that dagger thing is rare.

Pretty sure that if you put RA in CV's place his numbers would have been a lot worse than what he did in the 04-06 era, and he wouldn't have made any lore books.

You always take Rashad, this isn't even a question. We've been a horrendous team and needed stats from somewhere, Vital has given us some stats. Rashad was the #24 recruit in the nation. Vital is a nice kid and plays hard but he never would have played on those UConn teams.

This board is getting really silly.

 

[Crank]

You always take Rashad, this isn't even a question. We've been a horrendous team and needed stats from somewhere, Vital has given us some stats. Rashad was the #24 recruit in the nation. Vital is a nice kid and plays hard but he never would have played on those UConn teams. This board is getting really silly.

Do you view all people who disagree with you as silly? Or just the ones here?
Rashad was, basically, a one-trick pony. He was masterful at that one trick. And it worked exactly when we needed it to. But Rashad had serious deficiencies in his game that were covered up by the fact that he played with wall to wall studs.

But Rashad is a hero (mine too!), and it's impossible to get "non-silly" people to objectively assess their heroes! Enjoy!

 

[The Viking]

Rashad got into a bit of trouble back in the day. He wore a mask and had a plastic knife covered in fake blood and popped out of the bushes at people walking by near Hilltop I think. I remember his nickname was knifeman for a bit after that. A few friends and I wore scream masks to camp out for seats that year

We need more of that character trait in our recruits.
Anyway hope CV is coming back. He could have a big year next year

 

[superjohn]

Do you view all people who disagree with you as silly? Or just the ones here?
Rashad was, basically, a one-trick pony. He was masterful at that one trick. And it worked exactly when we needed it to. But Rashad had serious deficiencies in his game that were covered up by the fact that he played with wall to wall studs.

But Rashad is a hero (mine too!), and it's impossible to get "non-silly" people to objectively assess their heroes! Enjoy!

We currently have threads saying coach K isn't a good coach, Zion isn't a good basketball player, and Vital is as good as Rashad.

It's a dumb comparison, Vital isn't good enough to play on those teams. Rashad was a starter and played the role of knock down shooter, championship winning teams often have guys who fill roles and are great at those roles. Vital is a jack of all trades player for the worst stretch at UConn in 35 years. He plays hard but he was never meant to start at a program like UConn and it shows how far we've fallen.

 

[polycom]

We currently have threads saying coach K isn't a good coach, Zion isn't a good basketball player, and Vital is as good as Rashad.

It's a dumb comparison, Vital isn't good enough to play on those teams. Rashad was a started and played the role of knock down shooter, championship winning teams often have guys who fill roles and are great at those roles. Vital is a jack of all trades player for the worst stretch at UConn in 35 years. He plays hard but he was never meant to start at a program like UConn and it shows how far we've fallen.

You've been here a while was it always like this? The threads right now are the hottest of takes.

 

[JMick]

You've been here a while was it always like this? The threads right now are the hottest of takes.

There's nothing else for people to talk about. That's the real problem

 

[superjohn]

You've been here a while was it always like this? The threads right now are the hottest of takes.

I used to think there was better basketball talk here than the other college bball boards, that's definitely changed.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

I guess the brief way of saying all of that is that RA got the fruits of the heart of UConn's glory, whereas CV(2) got the detritus of our lowest time. Comparison of the two is inherently unfair.

Rashad Anderson was good enough to start, or play starters' minutes, on arguably the two most ridiculously talented UConn rosters in history.

Christian Vital is good enough to start at UConn now, while we're in the midst of our worst stretch in 30 years.

I'm sorry, but CV would not play a second on the 2004 team. If he were on the 2006 team, MAYBE he'd get to fight with freshman-year Craig Austrie over the backup point guard scraps....and if not for the unfortunate start to AJ Price's college career, those minutes wouldn't have been available either.

 

[tzznandrew]

You've been here a while was it always like this? The threads right now are the hottest of takes.

It wasn't always like this, and least I don't think so. I mean, the game chats were always full of garbage Change started maybe around 2012 or so.

 

[Crank]

Rashad Anderson was good enough to start, or play starters' minutes, on arguably the two most ridiculously talented UConn rosters in history.

Both of those teams had the massive luxury of being able to carry RA as a starter, or for starter minutes, because those teams were, in fact, so incredibly stacked.
Said differently, when you've got Emeka Okafor and Josh Boone rebounding, and Denham Brown and Ben Gordon bombing from outside, you can carry a guy whose only Top-D-1 skill was 3 point shooting.

It is very likely true that CV could never had started or been a 6th man on 04 or 06. But that doesn't answer the question, "who is better, CV or RA?" That answers the question, "which guy was better for that team?"

Does anybody think that, if you put RA as a shooting guard on the last 3 teams that he shoots anywhere near as well as he did with 04 and 06 guys? Of course not. If you put RA on the last three teams and you ask him to do what CV did, people would be calling RA a bum, because his 3pt shooting would be lower and he'd be a bigger turnover machine than CV ever was, minus the rebounding and relentless defense.

Not a rip on RA. Like I said - guy is a legend because he was perfect place, perfect time and had the stones. That's not we UConn needed the last 3 seasons.

CV has been awesome, given the trash he's had to work with.

 

[selles]

Rashad Anderson was good enough to start, or play starters' minutes, on arguably the two most ridiculously talented UConn rosters in history.

Christian Vital is good enough to start at UConn now, while we're in the midst of our worst stretch in 30 years.

I'm sorry, but CV would not play a second on the 2004 team. If he were on the 2006 team, MAYBE he'd get to fight with freshman-year Craig Austrie over the backup point guard scraps....and if not for the unfortunate start to AJ Price's college career, those minutes wouldn't have been available either.

Vital would have brought value to the 2006 team. That team lacked a smaller guard capable of chasing around other small guards on defense. Vital would have brought that piece and gotten some run when the situation dictated.

 

[UCfor3]

It's all in the nuance of the opinion and how you state it. It's one thing to say "I think this coach, while he has been pretty successful, is a little overrated in my opnion and here's why." It's another thing when someone says the national player of the year is mostly just an athlete and isn't all that great a basketball player despite all evidence to the contrary. The first thing usually and hopefully prompts a discussion. The second thing prompts a reaction, which is probably what it was designed for. We could all probably be a little less dismissive of others somewhat benign opinions that we might not agree with but over the top outrageous opinions usually provoke equally outrageous reactions.

 

[McLovin]

I don't see the point of arguing whether CV is as good as any past player or what type of roles he would have had on any past team. That is all speculation and whatever stats are used for either side of the argument can't be compared apples to apples. Offensive schemes and players' roles within those schemes has changed so much over the past 10 years.

Regardless if he stays or goes, I think it is fair to say it won't have much of an impact on the outcome of next season. It is a team sport. It takes a very special type of player (Kemba / Shabazz) to materially impact the results of the entire season. Obviously everyone on here knows that CV isn't going to be that guy, nor have there ever been expectations for that during his UConn tenure.

Why don't we all just take a deep breath and realize that CV loves UConn and our fans. Let's show him that same respect. And if he does return next year, regardless of his role on the team, we should support him and hope he has a chance to finally be part of a winning team (and just maybe a chance to play in the post season).

 

[superjohn]

Both of those teams had the massive luxury of being able to carry RA as a starter, or for starter minutes, because those teams were, in fact, so incredibly stacked.
Said differently, when you've got Emeka Okafor and Josh Boone rebounding, and Denham Brown and Ben Gordon bombing from outside, you can carry a guy whose only Top-D-1 skill was 3 point shooting.

It is very likely true that CV could never had started or been a 6th man on 04 or 06. But that doesn't answer the question, "who is better, CV or RA?" That answers the question, "which guy was better for that team?"

Does anybody think that, if you put RA as a shooting guard on the last 3 teams that he shoots anywhere near as well as he did with 04 and 06 guys? Of course not. If you put RA on the last three teams and you ask him to do what CV did, people would be calling RA a bum, because his 3pt shooting would be lower and he'd be a bigger turnover machine than CV ever was, minus the rebounding and relentless defense.

Not a rip on RA. Like I said - guy is a legend because he was perfect place, perfect time and had the stones. That's not we UConn needed the last 3 seasons.

CV has been awesome, given the trash he's had to work with.

There is so much wrong in here I don't even know where to begin. You're making it out like Rashad lucked into the perfect situation, he was the 24th best recruit in the country and could have played anywhere. He was primarily a three point shooter here because that's the role Calhoun wanted for him on a championship winning team. He was doing way more off the dribble the following season before he got staph and his season and UConn's season was derailed. Rashad would average 20 for us these days.

You're saying it's likely true Vital wouldn't have started on that team or been the 6th man, no s^^t. Charlie V, Denham Brown, Hilton Armstrong, and Marcus Williams (before ineligibility) came off the bench for that team. Only chance Vital could have gotten a few minutes in '06 is because of AJ not playing and us scrambling to find Austrie but ballhandling is a weakness for Vital. Rashad is a far better player than Christian.

 

[8893]

Vital reminds me more of Donyell.

 

[freescooter]

I honestly don’t get where some of these guys get the idea that they are NBA ready, or where their “people” get it. Sometimes you wonder if they ever have watched an NBA game.

 

[Towney007]

There wasn't a single, NBA caliber player on our roster this year.

Next year? We'll have some guys with a real shot.

 

[NEforceUConn]

Not sure how this thread got "off the rails" so fast. If CV is back the team will be better, full stop. If he works hard this summer he has the chance to surprise a lot of people. I'm taking the optimistic side and hoping that his game gets better, then we can reopen the RA vs CV rants.

 

[Crank]

Rashad . . . was the 24th best recruit in the country and could have played anywhere. He was primarily a three point shooter here because that's the role Calhoun wanted for him on a championship winning team.

You still maintain that I'm being silly?
Do you think his HS ranking is relevant to the discussion? Very relevant? You've brought it up at least twice.
Is his NBA draft position (undrafted, iirc) relevant? You haven't mentioned that.

He was primarily a three point shooter here because that's the role Calhoun wanted for him on a championship winning team.

This is like saying, Tacko Fall is mainly plays inside, because that's the role the coach wants for him.

Rashad was a great 3 point shooter, and our best ever clutch shooter. Hands down.
But the guy had mittens on, didn't create for anybody else, and was slow on D.
I remember one Calhoun story where he said he had a player come off the court and ask to be switched off a guy, saying, "he's too fast for me coach." JC said he never had a guy say that to him. I think that was RA.
I also remember Calhoun saying once, about a guy, "he didn't get one rebound. How can you play a full game and not get one rebound." Might have been RIP, but it could have been RA.

Point is, RA was what he was. Calhoun certainly didn't tell him, "go out there and don't assist or rebound, your "role here is primarily as a 3 point shooter.""

His last year he averaged 2.8 rebounds and 0.7 assists per game.

If we are all to believe your scorching take, we'd have to believe that JC was willing to take any chance RA had of making the league and flush it down the toilet.

You are a trench digger.

 

[superjohn]

You still maintain that I'm being silly?
Do you think his HS ranking is relevant to the discussion? Very relevant? You've brought it up at least twice.
Is his NBA draft position (undrafted, iirc) relevant? You haven't mentioned that.

This is like saying, Tacko Fall is mainly plays inside, because that's the role the coach wants for him.

Rashad was a great 3 point shooter, and our best ever clutch shooter. Hands down.
But the guy had mittens on, didn't create for anybody else, and was slow on D.
I remember one Calhoun story where he said he had a player come off the court and ask to be switched off a guy, saying, "he's too fast for me coach." JC said he never had a guy say that to him. I think that was RA.
I also remember Calhoun saying once, about a guy, "he didn't get one rebound. How can you play a full game and not get one rebound." Might have been RIP, but it could have been RA.

Point is, RA was what he was. Calhoun certainly didn't tell him, "go out there and don't assist or rebound, your "role here is primarily as a 3 point shooter.""

His last year he averaged 2.8 rebounds and 0.7 assists per game.

If we are all to believe your scorching take, we'd have to believe that JC was willing to take any chance RA had of making the league and flush it down the toilet.

You are a trench digger.

You're arguing Vital is better than Rashad, sorry you're offended people think it's stupid.

You win, Vital is better than Rashad because he put up better #'s on a team that's gone 46-52 overall while playing in the AAC.

 

[johnhuskies95]

This thread has turned into a Vital bashing of sorts because of a throwaway comment comparing him to Rashad. Vital is a good college player and valuable on both offense and defense. Whether or not he would play for a national championship team is irrelevant considering we're not winning a national championship next year anyway. The biggest goal is to make the tournament and in my opinion he's definitely good enough to start for a tournament team.

 

[Fishy]

If we’re comparing players from that era, CV is more Denham Brown than Rashad. I do agree CV has turned into an excellent shooter.

Denham and Rashad were both better players than Vital. Vital would not have seen the court on those UConn teams.

Back to the original post....how do we know Christian wasn’t talking about cleaning his dorm room or finishing a project or reorganizing his sock drawer?

Don’t follow these players on social media.