Chief has been lenient on Travis

[boog204]

I already covered that and how it's not applicable to Vital.

Let me help, Chief... I've bolded some parts that you may want to read.

Second impact syndrome occurs when an athlete returns to sport too early after suffering from an initial concussion. The athlete does not need to receive a strong second blow to the head to set the effects in motion. The athlete may receive only a minor blow to the head or a hit to the chest or back that snaps the head enough to have the brain rebound inside the skull.

Because the brain is more vulnerable and susceptible to injury after an initial brain injury, it only takes a minimal force to cause irreversible damage. The brain’s ability to self-regulate the amount of blood volume to the brain is damaged resulting in increased cerebral blood volume which can result in brainstem herniation and death.

The pressure to the brain increases rapidly causing brain death in as little as three to five minutes. Because brain death is so rapid, second impact syndrome has a high fatality rate in young athletes. (sportsmd.com)

...even the mildest grade of concussion can lead to SIS. (Clinics in Sports Medicine via Wikipedia)

 

[boog204]

No assist at all, you're off base there too. Sorry, I do this for a living, and have for 25 years. Worked with a professional team in my fellowship and for a dozen years with a div. 2 football/div 1 hockey program, and now am team doc for four local HS programs.

But Chief pretends to be a basketball expert in an online forum... We know who has the true expertise here, Doc...

 

[Doctor Hoop]

By the way, once his SCAT indicates a concussion, there's very little leeway in progressing back to game play. The training staff would be out on a thin limb if they don't follow protocol.

 

[huskymedic]

Waiting for the inevitable pivot and spin until...

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I already covered that and how it's not applicable to Vital.

You typed a bunch of gibberish and then said "I'm right."

You do realize that there are other people reading this nonsense you post and you're not just in your dark apartment yelling into the mirror? When you say moronic things that are demonstrably incorrect you don't just say "I'm right" and that's the end of it.

The fact that you think your "criticism" of the program has any impact on anything besides providing grounds for people on a message board to make fun of you is incredibly sad.

 

[Chief00]

You typed a bunch of gibberish and then said "I'm right."

You do realize that there are other people reading this nonsense you post and you're not just in your dark apartment yelling into the mirror? When you say moronic things that are demonstrably incorrect you don't just say "I'm right" and that's the end of it.

The fact that you think your "criticism" of the program has any impact on anything besides providing grounds for people on a message board to make fun of you is incredibly sad.

I did cover it and very thoroughly - still waiting for Stairmaster to produce 5 guys with permanent head trauma from basketball - prior to the new protocols. So far he's come up with zero. I said it was very low risk - maybe I need to reconsider and lower that risk. Millions play the game.

 

[Mr. French]

Holy crap why are people even bothering to respond to this maniac?

I admit, I do it often because I can't help it, but at this point it's ridiculous.

 

[Chief00]

Let me help, Chief... I've bolded some parts that you may want to read.

Second impact syndrome occurs when an athlete returns to sport too early after suffering from an initial concussion. The athlete does not need to receive a strong second blow to the head to set the effects in motion. The athlete may receive only a minor blow to the head or a hit to the chest or back that snaps the head enough to have the brain rebound inside the skull.

Because the brain is more vulnerable and susceptible to injury after an initial brain injury, it only takes a minimal force to cause irreversible damage. The brain’s ability to self-regulate the amount of blood volume to the brain is damaged resulting in increased cerebral blood volume which can result in brainstem herniation and death.

The pressure to the brain increases rapidly causing brain death in as little as three to five minutes. Because brain death is so rapid, second impact syndrome has a high fatality rate in young athletes. (sportsmd.com)

...even the mildest grade of concussion can lead to SIS. (Clinics in Sports Medicine via Wikipedia)

You amazingly did not read my post - your focus is on the second event - it's only a second event if you have a serious first event - in this case it was borderline nonexistent or mild. They took a very conservative approach - which is fine but let's not get carried away with hyperbole.

 

[Stainmaster]

I did cover it and very thoroughly - still waiting for Stairmaster to produce 5 guys with permanent head trauma from basketball - prior to the new protocols. So far he's come up with zero. I said it was very low risk - maybe I need to reconsider and lower that risk. Millions play the game.

Oh come on. You're beyond engaging with. Earlier in this thread, you openly disputed the notion that Vital was even concussed in the first place. Go back to your 1950s dream world where players who are knocked unconscious stay in the game and those who break bones keep playing without setting them.

I see you're too chicken to go up to Mrs. Vital and tell her the real deal with her son's diagnosis.

 

[Chief00]

By the way, once his SCAT indicates a concussion, there's very little leeway in progressing back to game play. The training staff would be out on a thin limb if they don't follow protocol.

You seem to be lost in the process weeds - since Stairmaster can't do it -please give me 5 examples of basketball players with permanent brain impairment due to head trauma related to basketball. Plenty of examples for boxing and football if basketball is equally risky why don't we have examples?

 

[huskymedic]

Basketball and the brain: Concussions aren't just a risk in football

 

[gtcam]

So you can't give me an example of a basketball player who played before the new protocols, that had suffered life long brain damage. This is proof the sports are indeed different as anyone who's played more than one can tell you.

Are you qualified to give medical opinions and make decisions if not dont act as if you are chief. Concussions are not usual injuries in that it does affect something that we all need (some of the bashers dont use theirs) iin order to live. There can be secondary concussion injuries that can come about in the lightest if blows/contact within close time periods between blows.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

I'm done here.

 

[gtcam]

You seem to be lost in the process weeds - since Stairmaster can't do it -please give me 5 examples of basketball players with permanent brain impairment due to head trauma related to basketball. Plenty of examples for boxing and football if basketball is equally risky why don't we have examples?

Why do you think you need that? What dont you get? This crusade to get somet h ing as prof is complete BS. Who wants to be the first one to experience something terrible on the chance it never happened (that we know of). Especially in theae days of lawsuits. Drop it Chief

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

You're trying to have a conversation with someone who literally doesn't have the ability to do that.

 

[boog204]

You amazingly did not read my post - your focus is on the second event - it's only a second event if you have a serious first event - in this case it was borderline nonexistent or mild. They took a very conservative approach - which is fine but let's not get carried away with hyperbole.

In what universe are you qualified to know or not know whether Vital had a concussion? I know you believe you are a member of the team and all... Did Bunky tell you something?

 

[Danzz]

No assist at all, you're off base there too. Sorry, I do this for a living, and have for 25 years. Worked with a professional team in my fellowship and for a dozen years with a div. 2 football/div 1 hockey program, and now am team doc for four local HS programs.

Big deal. You have an MD and 25 years of relevant experience but have you ever hung out with Andre? I didn't think so.

 

[jleves]

Holy crap why are people even bothering to respond to this maniac?

I admit, I do it often because I can't help it, but at this point it's ridiculous.

I stopped bothering to engage years ago because the goal posts are moved or opinion is decided to be fact on a regular basis until he's convinced himself he's right and influential, but I still love reading his stuff and the responses. There are times I read something and I think, I should respond to that and then realize 1) it wouldn't make a difference and 2) someone else is going to tell him the same thing.

But overall, when I see a thread started or responded to, I can't wait to grab a drink and sit back and read the thread. They are always entertaining in some surreal way.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I thought this was going to be more Uber-bashing, and simply lacked "OT."

 

[Chief00]

I'm done here.

The rhetoric on this board is all about this terrible risk playing basketball and despite millions playing the game for decades - no one can produce any evidence that playing basketball produces permant head trauma like you could easily produce in boxing or basketball. That's because most of the research points to repeated trauma to the head and that doesn't happen in basketball. In life there is always the possibility of an rare, unusual high impact event but that's hard to mitigate risk for since it can happen in any aspect of life.

 

[Devland]

I think I met Chief in a bar before. He is the guy you unknowingly sit down next to who proceeds to try to impress you with his knowledge on every possible subject and who he knows. You ignore him and he continues to talk to you. Finally you get up and move to the other side of the bar to get away from him. The bartender then comes over to you and says " I'm sorry about that guy. He comes in here all the time. He can be annoying but he is harmless. Your next drink is on me". Thanks for the free drink Chief.

 

[Chief00]

I think I met Chief in a bar before. He is the guy you unknowingly sit down next to who proceeds to try to impress you with his knowledge on every possible subject and who he knows. You ignore him and he continues to talk to you. Finally you get up and move to the other side of the bar to get away from him. The bartender then comes over to you and says " I'm sorry about that guy. He comes in here all the time. He can be annoying but he is harmless. Your next drink is on me". Thanks for the free drink Chief.

I don't claim to know all the answers but when no one can answer a basic question to back up conventional wisdom - the alarm bell sounds. I will drop this now, as people requested.

 

[huskymedic]

Basketball and the brain: Concussions aren't just a risk in football

For those who like data instead of anecdotes:
Study Looks at Concussion Rates Among NCAA Sports

>>When it came to the overall estimated annual numbers of SRCs by sport, men's football was followed by women's soccer (1,113), women's basketball (998), men's basketball (773), and men's wrestling (617).<<

SRC = Sports Related Concussions

 

[boog204]

You amazingly did not read my post - your focus is on the second event - it's only a second event if you have a serious first event - in this case it was borderline nonexistent or mild. They took a very conservative approach - which is fine but let's not get carried away with hyperbole.

And amazingly, you did not either... You are wrong on the second impact invent only being relevant if the first is a "high grade" concussion. Read what I posted. But since you won't because you live in a delusional universe, I'll post it again --> ...even the mildest grade of concussion can lead to SIS. (Clinics in Sports Medicine via Wikipedia)

So to sum, if Vital's concussion was only "mild" as you insinuated it might be, he is at risk for SIS which in real terms put's him at risk for a catastrophic head injury. No, we do not have evidence of that happening in basketball. But the risk IS there. An elbow, blind screen, etc. all could have life altering effects. But to you the risk is worth it.

If this is part of the shtick then it is just too far. If this is real, then I'm legitimately disturbed by how obtuse you are.

 

[TRest]

I stopped bothering to engage years ago because the goal posts are moved or opinion is decided to be fact on a regular basis until he's convinced himself he's right and influential, but I still love reading his stuff and the responses. There are times I read something and I think, I should respond to that and then realize 1) it wouldn't make a difference and 2) someone else is going to tell him the same thing.

But overall, when I see a thread started or responded to, I can't wait to grab a drink and sit back and read the thread. They are always entertaining in some surreal way.

The best thing is when you write a post like this, and chief gives it a like. All publicity is good publicity.

Chief's best contribution to this board is his avatar.

 

[intlzncster]

Kemba and Bazz played lots of minutes

aaaaand they were two of our best players ever.

Try playing Jonathan Mandledove 40 minutes. Would be an absolute sh__t show.

 

[Chief00]

The best thing is when you write a post like this, and chief gives it a like. All publicity is good publicity.

Chief's best contribution to this board is his avatar.

He says " I still love reading his stuff"

 

[Chief00]

For those who like data instead of anecdotes:
Study Looks at Concussion Rates Among NCAA Sports

>>When it came to the overall estimated annual numbers of SRCs by sport, men's football was followed by women's soccer (1,113), women's basketball (998), men's basketball (773), and men's wrestling (617).<<

SRC = Sports Related Concussions

Thanks for sharing Men's wrestling has a 10.92 rate vs basketball at 3.89. Backs up my point that the risk of concussion is very different between sports - so if its risk based the protocols should be different. Of these less than 10% are reoccurring, so that brings it down to 0.389 per 10,000.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

I know I wrote that I was done, but I'm going to try. Just. One. More. Time.

Thanks for sharing Men's wrestling has a 10.92 rate vs basketball at 3.89. Backs up my point that the risk of concussion is very different between sports - so if its risk based the protocols should be different. Of these less than 10% are reoccurring, so that brings it down to 0.389 per 10,000.

Which, of course, tells you absolutely nothing about how each individual concussion should be managed. (Hint: They are all managed the same.)

 

[huskymedic]

Thanks for sharing Men's wrestling has a 10.92 rate vs basketball at 3.89. Backs up my point that the risk of concussion is very different between sports - so if its risk based the protocols should be different. Of these less than 10% are reoccurring, so that brings it down to 0.389 per 10,000.

Nobody is arguing that the risks of concussions are different per sport... A concussion is a concussion no matter what sport and the protocols for return are and should be the same for men's basketball and women's soccer but you'll continue to spin it back to what you believe despite bodies of studies and evidence to the contrary.