Charli Collier to UCONN!!!!!

[oldude]

I read some of the highlights of what she did - I just don't know because I never saw her. And I've heard how well she did vs them - but were the games close / why didn't she do more vs other teams etc? Was USC playing a defense that allowed her to roam free a bit or on defense were Camara's rebounds tough in traffic etc?

But I hear what you're saying and for the most part I can see what you are saying and what Coco is saying. If Camara is a beast on the glass and her build is stocky she can be the player that guards the big physical post and allow Stevens to be "roving 4" just like Stewie.

The game was at SC and it was close with the Gamecocks up 4 starting the 4th qtr. The Gamecocks pulled away at the end winning by 10, 78-68. Camara started the game and finished with 14 pts (7-13) and 9 boards. Staley's teams play man defense as does KY. While I can not verify the specific matchup, since KY started 3 guards in the game, Camara would have been matched up with either Wilson or Coates.

For the season, Camara earned the starting spot about midway through the season at KY and played aprox 20-25 minutes per game. General concensus was that she was a consistent rebounder and defender with decent scoring ability from both inside and outside up to 15 ft from the basket.

With KY in turmoil last season, leading to the departure of numerous players & coaches, it is difficult to assess how that may have impacted Camara's overall performance.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't agree. "Not built" isn't very relevant as we see this year Natalie vs Collier. Why isn't Natalie getting more minutes this year even though "she is built better to guard posts?" Why has Collier beaten her out if "being built" is so important? You play your best and see how they perform as long as they don't get overwhelmed. And I don't believe her injury has anything to do with "banging in the post" anymore than Lou's injury last year was because she was playing sf or because she went for an offensive rebound in which Lou broke her foot it shouldn't mean she shouldn't aggressively keep trying to get offensive rebounds or defensive ones too. Anybody can break a foot just in how they step etc. Anyone can mess up a knee too.

You play your best - you don't overreact to other teams when you have superior talent. As CD has said for years "We want them to react to what we're doing."
As Geno said - "They have to guard us too." A player like Stevens will be a brutally hard to guard for a center. Similar to Maya Moore who was only 6'1 and often was guarding inside but how was the slower more physical player going to guard her? Should they try to play slowdown bball while we look to run the ball down their throat? The number 1 recruits will always want to come to the team that runs the ball too - and usually that running offense is tougher to stop than half-court low post Hubie Brown basketball.

"Banging" is "overrated" vs "talent." We've seen it with Maya Moore. We've seen it this year with our small team. We used to hear how some would say to put Stewie as a sf because of the fear she will get banged around so much and wear down which was a compelte myth/being "scared." of the big bad wolf in the post. IMO there is fear of low post play like there is fear of a child and the boogeyman. It's overdone. This year I think it will probably get us - but we're not just small we're extremely small. Anyhow imo we will see it again with Stevens though she is 6'6. Bigs can't defend her especially with the backcourt we're going to have that can set easily her up.

Whats Maya got to do with this? How many minutes did Napheesa spend guarding the post last year? Natalie is getting more minutes in the post than Napheesa because of the other skills she brings to the starting lineup. The best option for starting is not the same as the best option for defending the post. Being able to defend the post has everything to do with how you are built. For example KLS is two inches taller than Napheesa Collier, why isn't KLS guarding the post? Banging is not overrated it just is. The better you are built the more banging you can tolerate. Injuries like banging also happens stronger and sturdier you are the more injuries you can stand. Azura is not that sturdy, or maybe like Batouly you have not seen her either?

 

[CocoHusky]

Stewie had no problem doing it.

False. Freshmen & Sophmore Stewie hardly had to guard in the post because she had the low post law firm of Dolson, Tuck, & Stokes. Junior & Senior Stewie had built up a significant amount of upper and lower body strength so that physicality and post defense was actually a strength of her game. Azura would have been a junior this year. Azura is two inches taller than Stewie and maybe I'm wrong but based on body type I don't the the same ability to add muscle mass to Azura's frame.

 

[oldude]

While it is certainly nice to have a big banger to hip check an opposing team's post player and knock them off of the block down low, it is worth noting that against Baylor's bigs Geno had Pheeze and Gabby front their posts. In addition when Baylor did manage to get the ball into the post, Uconn frequently doubled down on the post leading to several Baylor turnovers. Baylor struggled all game trying to get the ball into the post against Uconn's smaller more athletic defenders.

 

[cbraarj]

I fully agree on the assesment of Azura vs Butler for next season. Azura will play the 4/5 next year. Butler, who has improved from last year, still lacks the footwork and hands to play major minutes.

Finally, I don't think Camara is a wildcard. During the 2nd half of Kentucky's season, she was a rebounding force who could also score. One of her best games was against the Gamecocks where she battled Wilson & Coates as well as anyone. IMO, I think Camara will battle Collier next year for the starting forward spot. They have similar games with Collier being the more fluid player and Camara being the more physical.

Camara had a game 14 and 9 against SC. Imo Napheesa is AA next year if not this year!

 

[CBear01]

Azura is not that sturdy

Let's hope they have her bulking up in the weight room this redshirt year, muscle up for 2017-18

 

[Charliebball]

You may be on to somethimg.

​

After her UConn visit I was convinced that it was just a matter of time before CW signed on the dotted line..........however in the past months CW has widened her interest in other programs........UConn may still be the front runner but based on what I've seen from her social media, she is still looking...........having AAU team mate LG and friend Charli Collier in Storrs is certainly a positive but still not a sure thing from my observations..............

 

[Tonyc]

Next season I like Stevens and Lou out front as shot blockers. Another big underneath. Butler Camara or just Lou up top and Stevens down low on defense on offense we have Lou and Stevens who can shoot from almost anywhere. This will be an unbeatable team a team that could only loose by beating themselves. Then comes 2018 class lead by Collier. Wowszer. For some it will be boring with all the blowouts for other fans it will be pure happiness. For me it will be Be u tit ful basketball and many more NCs. Then only question will be when will UConn lose??????? Hold on to your seats this is gonna be another unbelievable ride. Where are we going....To the Top....To the Very Top....

 

[TitleTown]

False. Freshmen & Sophmore Stewie hardly had to guard in the post because she had the low post law firm of Dolson, Tuck, & Stokes. Junior & Senior Stewie had built up a significant amount of upper and lower body strength so that physicality and post defense was actually a strength of her game. Azura would have been a junior this year. Azura is two inches taller than Stewie and maybe I'm wrong but based on body type I don't the the same ability to add muscle mass to Azura's frame.

Who cares about Freshman and Sophomore years? We are talking about next year. Stevens is taller, stronger, and bigger right now than Stewie ever was!

 

[hoophuskee]

Whats Maya got to do with this? How many minutes did Napheesa spend guarding the post last year? Natalie is getting more minutes in the post than Napheesa because of the other skills she brings to the starting lineup. The best option for starting is not the same as the best option for defending the post. Being able to defend the post has everything to do with how you are built. For example KLS is two inches taller than Napheesa Collier, why isn't KLS guarding the post? Banging is not overrated it just is. The better you are built the more banging you can tolerate. Injuries like banging also happens stronger and sturdier you are the more injuries you can stand. Azura is not that sturdy, or maybe like Batouly you have not seen her either?

Maya wasn't a post and easily played pf didn't she? Her body "wasn't built to be a pf," was it? That's why I brought up Maya.

And why are you talking about Collier last year when you see what she is doing this year?

Noo - Natalie is NOT getting more minutes in the post than Collier. Natalie has been benched a bit too which is part of "the minutes." And just look at the game vs Baylor. In the 4th quarter Baylor was narrowing the gap, we brought back in Collier (even at the risk of fouling out) for the end, and we didn't put Gabby on the bench either. Heck Baylor went with their two bigs. It was Butler that went to the bench vs Baylor while Collier and Gabby fended off the big Baylor frontline. Then once Collier came in, the lead gradually was pushed back out. The game was deciding those last 7 minutes by Collier and Gabby. We don't win without Butler's contribution but there is a reason why Butler will rarely see teh end of a tight game. A player like Collier is better. Their posts have to guard Collier too which is why Stevens will play a lot inside. They won't be able to guard her.

The best option for winning is playing your best players as long as they don't get overwhelmed.

Being able to defend the post has "some to do with how you are built" but as we've seen with someone like Natalie she can't respond well to quickness. Anyone with quick feet around the post and Natalie mightily struggles. There is more to post players than juts the big player's from Baylor that don't move that well.

Banging can be overrated when one has superior talent and decides not to use that talent in favor of size of a much less talented but more of a banger-type player in which you can win without much use of the banger. This season has shown that.

Lou doesn't guard the post because she is soft at the moment and not as strong. Two points on this- let's see Lou average 9.6 rebounds per game. like Stevens did while our team is successful. And secondly, again why was 6'1 Maya able to guard the post? She wasn't wide. She wasn't a banger. She used her quickness. One of the greatest NBA defenders in the post was Dennis Rodman. He was 6'7. His body wasn't built to be a rebounder. He was thin, And if was all about size then why didn't South Carolina or Duke crush us the last two years? Why couldn't Baylor this year?

I haven't seen Stevens much don't really remember and paid little attention to her in the past but everything I hear - the combination of several things -- for example a link someone provided in which Debbie Antonelli raved about her and her toughness or physicality or referenced she was a good rebounder implying she was tough, the stats showing 9.6 rebounds per game and the blocked shots, several posters also agreeing that she belongs inside defensively, the other points I made which you disagree with me on which I firmly think I'm right (don't get upset with me - we just are having a difference of opinion here- I mean no malice in my reply to you- you and I agree with many issues of yours - a LOT lately so in this case we just disagree ,), so overall I "know" (i.e my opinion) I'm right .

Other points to include I could have put in the paragraph above - in that you and I disagree - is that imo Stevens wouldn't have a shot to be the number 1 player in 2019 that Geno says she will be if she stays if she is as soft as you suggest. There is no way she shoots or passes better than Lou and there is no way if she isn't sturdy enough to be Collier's equal - and again I'll say Collier is the main player guarding the post this season not Butler. If she can't defend in the post study like Collier then I don't see her as superior to these players. It will be her ability to impact and defend inside and getting tough rebounds in traffic. I already know Stevens can shoot the ball but imo no way like Lou.

All these points you and I are in a disagreement so I can't believe what you are saying vs others that say she will defend inside or others that have agreed with me prior. You just don't go averaging 9.6 rebounds a game in the ACC and are regarded at this moment if you were to play among the 5 best or so players in wcbb and then say "she isn't sturdy enough to play inside." If Geno is saying she can be #1 pick in 2019 then she is what I think.

 

[hoophuskee]

Next season I like Stevens and Lou out front as shot blockers. Another big underneath. Butler Camara or just Lou up top and Stevens down low on defense on offense we have Lou and Stevens who can shoot from almost anywhere. This will be an unbeatable team a team that could only loose by beating themselves. Then comes 2018 class lead by Collier. Wowszer. For some it will be boring with all the blowouts for other fans it will be pure happiness. For me it will be Be u tit ful basketball and many more NCs. Then only question will be when will UConn lose??????? Hold on to your seats this is gonna be another unbelievable ride. Where are we going....To the Top....To the Very Top....

How could you have "Stevens out front" while also having
"Stevens down low on defense?"

And how often do you see shot blockers getting lots of blocks at the ft line and a bit outside of that ("i.e. "out front")? Aren't the shot blocks primarily coming from down low?

 

[UcMiami]

You know, Tuck spent most of her time guarding the Coates type of centers which allowed Stewart more space to provide the devastating help defense as she cheated off her player. Stewart did not spend a lot of time banging against the brute force centers thanks to the presence of Tuck who was 'strong like bull' even if she was shorter than most of them.

I am not sure what people consider significant playing time, but Butler is providing Stokes senior year kind of minutes so far this year, and in the two toughest games so far has played 15+ minutes in the first half of both. That to me is significant minutes and a significant contribution to the team.

Next year is going to be very very interesting - I don't really know what to expect from Camara and freshman are always a mystery - but it has been a very long time since we have had a team with the kind of depth of talent that we will have next year. And with so little of the starting rotation graduating, the depth of experience returning between players this year and the transfers who have had their year in practice ... wow.

 

[hoophuskee]

You know, Tuck spent most of her time guarding the Coates type of centers which allowed Stewart more space to provide the devastating help defense as she cheated off her player. Stewart did not spend a lot of time banging against the brute force centers thanks to the presence of Tuck who was 'strong like bull' even if she was shorter than most of them.

I am not sure what people consider significant playing time, but Butler is providing Stokes senior year kind of minutes so far this year, and in the two toughest games so far has played 15+ minutes in the first half of both. That to me is significant minutes and a significant contribution to the team.

Next year is going to be very very interesting - I don't really know what to expect from Camara and freshman are always a mystery - but it has been a very long time since we have had a team with the kind of depth of talent that we will have next year. And with so little of the starting rotation graduating, the depth of experience returning between players this year and the transfers who have had their year in practice ... wow.

But Stewie was guarding Wilson. Wilson couldn't shoot beyond 8 feet. VS ND similar - they switched off often on both. When we Oregon - Stewie was defending the post. Teh Oregon center was mostly too tall for Tuck. Stewie had to learn to do this - so she would guard the posts too. And we weren't going to put Lou down there defending a power player last year.

We couldn't have won without Butler I believe in both FSU or Baylor. But more minutes is being used for Collier.

 

[oldude]

But Stewie was guarding Wilson. Wilson couldn't shoot beyond 8 feet. VS ND similar - they switched off often on both. When we Oregon - Stewie was defending the post. Teh Oregon center was mostly too tall for Tuck. Stewie had to learn to do this - so she would guard the posts too. And we weren't going to put Lou down there defending a power player last year.

We couldn't have won without Butler I believe in both FSU or Baylor. But more minutes is being used for Collier.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall that last year vs SC, Tuck matched up with Wilson & Stewie matched up with Coates.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I could be wrong but I seem to recall that last year vs SC, Tuck matched up with Wilson & Stewie matched up with Coates.

We'll have to go to the monitor. I thought it was Stewie on Wilson and Tuck on Coates.

 

[CocoHusky]

Maya wasn't a post and easily played pf didn't she? Her body "wasn't built to be a pf," was it? That's why I brought up Maya.

And why are you talking about Collier last year when you see what she is doing this year?

Noo - Natalie is NOT getting more minutes in the post than Collier. Natalie has been benched a bit too which is part of "the minutes." And just look at the game vs Baylor. In the 4th quarter Baylor was narrowing the gap, we brought back in Collier (even at the risk of fouling out) for the end, and we didn't put Gabby on the bench either. Heck Baylor went with their two bigs. It was Butler that went to the bench vs Baylor while Collier and Gabby fended off the big Baylor frontline. Then once Collier came in, the lead gradually was pushed back out. The game was deciding those last 7 minutes by Collier and Gabby. We don't win without Butler's contribution but there is a reason why Butler will rarely see teh end of a tight game. A player like Collier is better. Their posts have to guard Collier too which is why Stevens will play a lot inside. They won't be able to guard her.

The best option for winning is playing your best players as long as they don't get overwhelmed.

Being able to defend the post has "some to do with how you are built" but as we've seen with someone like Natalie she can't respond well to quickness. Anyone with quick feet around the post and Natalie mightily struggles. There is more to post players than juts the big player's from Baylor that don't move that well.

Banging can be overrated when one has superior talent and decides not to use that talent in favor of size of a much less talented but more of a banger-type player in which you can win without much use of the banger. This season has shown that.

Lou doesn't guard the post because she is soft at the moment and not as strong. Two points on this- let's see Lou average 9.6 rebounds per game. like Stevens did while our team is successful. And secondly, again why was 6'1 Maya able to guard the post? She wasn't wide. She wasn't a banger. She used her quickness. One of the greatest NBA defenders in the post was Dennis Rodman. He was 6'7. His body wasn't built to be a rebounder. He was thin, And if was all about size then why didn't South Carolina or Duke crush us the last two years? Why couldn't Baylor this year?

I haven't seen Stevens much don't really remember and paid little attention to her in the past but everything I hear - the combination of several things -- for example a link someone provided in which Debbie Antonelli raved about her and her toughness or physicality or referenced she was a good rebounder implying she was tough, the stats showing 9.6 rebounds per game and the blocked shots, several posters also agreeing that she belongs inside defensively, the other points I made which you disagree with me on which I firmly think I'm right (don't get upset with me - we just are having a difference of opinion here- I mean no malice in my reply to you- you and I agree with many issues of yours - a LOT lately so in this case we just disagree ,), so overall I "know" (i.e my opinion) I'm right .

Other points to include I could have put in the paragraph above - in that you and I disagree - is that imo Stevens wouldn't have a shot to be the number 1 player in 2019 that Geno says she will be if she stays if she is as soft as you suggest. There is no way she shoots or passes better than Lou and there is no way if she isn't sturdy enough to be Collier's equal - and again I'll say Collier is the main player guarding the post this season not Butler. If she can't defend in the post study like Collier then I don't see her as superior to these players. It will be her ability to impact and defend inside and getting tough rebounds in traffic. I already know Stevens can shoot the ball but imo no way like Lou.

All these points you and I are in a disagreement so I can't believe what you are saying vs others that say she will defend inside or others that have agreed with me prior. You just don't go averaging 9.6 rebounds a game in the ACC and are regarded at this moment if you were to play among the 5 best or so players in wcbb and then say "she isn't sturdy enough to play inside." If Geno is saying she can be #1 pick in 2019 then she is what I think.

We are definitely diverging. Maya was/is built well enough to play multiple positions on the court including PF.
Here is a picture of Stewie & Azura together, please note the apprciable difference in the definition of the arms and shoulders. I don't know how else to try and explain it to you.

 

[TitleTown]

We are definitely diverging. Maya was/is built well enough to play multiple positions on the court including PF.
Here is a picture of Stewie & Azura together, please note the apprciable difference in the definition of the arms and shoulders. I don't know how else to try and explain it to you.

Yeah Stevens is bigger.

 

[CocoHusky]

I could be wrong but I seem to recall that last year vs SC, Tuck matched up with Wilson & Stewie matched up with Coates.

You are wrong. Morgan guarded Coates and frustrated her immensely into a 2 point game- a Season low for Coates.

 

[todbo]

Guess I'm feeling a bit sorry for Natalie. In her senior year, she may be the last one off the bench.

 

[CocoHusky]

Guess I'm feeling a bit sorry for Natalie. In her senior year, she may be the last one off the bench.

That may turn out to be true but it will have nothing to do with Charli Collier coming to UCONN, because Natalie will be gone by the time Charli arrives. Charli is a HS Junior, Natalie is a College Junior by eligibility.

 

[bags27]

That may turn out to be true but it will have nothing to do with Charli Collier coming to UCONN, because Natalie will be gone by the time Charli arrives.

instead because of Batouly.

But last one off the bench (and I don't think so: it's more likely Kyla or one of the freshmen) still gets 15 minutes, given the size of the leads next year.

 

[oldude]

You are wrong. Morgan guarded Coates and frustrated her immensely into a 2 point game- a Season low for Coates.

I stand corrected.

 

[CocoHusky]

Other points to include I could have put in the paragraph above - in that you and I disagree - is that imo Stevens wouldn't have a shot to be the number 1 player in 2019 that Geno says she will be if she stays if she is as soft as you suggest.

I never and would never suggested Azura was soft! Don't know where you are coming from with this!

 

[Charliebball]

Guess I'm feeling a bit sorry for Natalie. In her senior year, she may be the last one off the bench.

I think she'll still be used in a match up against some of the bigger slower posts next year...............but I would say that Bent, Irwin and Butler will certainly see more minutes this year then next unless they find another gear by the end of the season............

 

[todbo]

That may turn out to be true but it will have nothing to do with Charli Collier coming to UCONN, because Natalie will be gone by the time Charli arrives. Charli is a HS Junior, Natalie is a College Junior by eligibility.

Thanks! I lost count somewhere in there...