Carlton's help defense killed us.

[Doctor Hoop]

“I see a team full of untapped potential.”

 

[Huskyforlife]

How can you tell me how good Cliff will be in college without even playing in college? Never had a problem with you on here and I actually like your posts but this doesn’t seem to be registering. Just because Cliff is more talented doesn’t mean he’ll start or play more minutes than senior Carlton right away. It’s not that hard of a concept. Let me give you an example. Steven Enoch. Is there any question he was a better player and had more talent than Phil Nolan and Amida Brimah? No. So why didn’t he play more often? Because he wasn’t ready to contribute immediately. The majority of non-5 star recruits aren’t. He was better than those two yet he still didn’t take any of their minutes.

Brimah was much better than Carlton imo, even though I'm not sure why Ollie played Nolan over Enoch. In the event Cliff proves to not be a top 50 talent, like Enoch, he'd suffer the same fate if he still isn't better than our upperclassmen who aren't contributing anything. Maybe I should've prefaced my argument by saying I didn't think Carltons high school highlights/game film were impressive, and his play at UConn has confirmed my opinion. Finally, talented freshmen often start at schools who're lacking in a particular area, as we are at center.

Just to be clear, I dont have a problem with you, and I appreciate the compliment. I was genuinely interested in the discourse since we disagree.

 

[JimHurley]

Brimah was much better than Carlton imo, even though I'm not sure why Ollie played Nolan over Enoch. In the event Cliff proves to not be a top 50 talent, like Enoch, he'd suffer the same fate if he still isn't better than our upperclassmen who aren't contributing anything. Maybe I should've prefaced my argument by saying I didn't think Carltons high school highlights/game film were impressive, and his play at UConn has confirmed my opinion. Finally, talented freshmen often start at schools who're lacking in a particular area, as we are at center.

Just to be clear, I dont have a problem with you, and I appreciate the compliment. I was genuinely interested in the discourse since we disagree.

Yeah my bad if I’m coming off as aggressive. I’m just like the rest of us - impatient and passionate.

I guess the overall point I’m trying to make is that even though it’s pretty obvious Cliff WILL be a better player than Carlton over the course of his college career, I’m not sure he’ll be ready to take all his minutes from year 1. I think it will take time for him to adjust to division 1 basketball and that Carlton will be the more productive option next year as he’ll have 3 years of experience under his belt. If I’m wrong and Cliff comes here and plays 30 minutes a night that’s wonderful. I just don’t see that happening and think everyone is expecting Cliff to be an instant fix at the center as a freshman. Highly unlikely we get him anyway but we’ll see.

 

[bendm]

Steven Enoch. Is there any question he was a better player and had more talent than Phil Nolan and Amida Brimah?

brimah and nolan both started throughout the season on a championship winning team. hurley would have traded carlton for either of them yesterday if he could. cliff is also much more highly touted and ranked than enoch was coming out of highschool, so there is a much bigger gap between carlton and cliff than there was between brimah/nolan and enoch. hopefully next year carlton will be on a team in CUSA or the MAC where he belongs so this will cease to be an issue for you

 

[JimHurley]

brimah and nolan are championship winning centers. hurley would have traded carlton for either of them yesterday if he could. cliff is also much more highly touted and ranked than enoch was coming out of highschool. so there is a much bigger gap between carlton and cliff than there was between brimah/nolan and enoch. hopefully next year carlton will be on a team in CUSA or the MAC where he belongs so this will cease to be an issue for you

Point being Enoch was a better player than both, considering he’s now a starting center for a ranked ACC team. But he still couldn’t get minutes over Brimah or Nolan. Some guys take time to develop and I think Cliff will be no different. But again this won’t matter because I think we’re in 3rd place at BEST for Cliff.

 

[bendm]

Point being Enoch was a better player than both

there is no consensus that enoch is better than brimah

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

“I see a team full of untapped potential.”

Saw some tapping today.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

has Carlton dunked the ball this year?

 

[HooperScooper]

has Carlton dunked the ball this year?

Yes, there definitely was one recently. Against Villanova?

 

[Towney007]

Point being Enoch was a better player than both, considering he’s now a starting center for a ranked ACC team. But he still couldn’t get minutes over Brimah or Nolan. Some guys take time to develop and I think Cliff will be no different. But again this won’t matter because I think we’re in 3rd place at BEST for Cliff.

Yeah I mean Cliff will be an upgrade from Day-1 BUT - he's not a five star, one and done kind of talent. I saw him in Springfield - could have just been the game - but I thought he was 'fine.' but not much more than that. He's a development guy, too - with albeit a way higher talent ceiling if he figures it all out.

 

[JimHurley]

Yeah I mean Cliff will be an upgrade from Day-1 BUT - he's not a five star, one and done kind of talent. I saw him in Springfield - could have just been the game - but I thought he was 'fine.' but not much more than that. He's a development guy, too - with albeit a way higher talent ceiling if he figures it all out.

Yeah we just need to tamper expectations. For scale, Andre Drummond was the #2 recruit in the country and averaged 10ppg/7rpg in the Big East? I honestly think if Cliff came here we could expect half that his freshman year. His ceiling is 10x higher than Carlton’s but next season alone I think senior Carlton would put up better numbers than freshman Cliff.

 

[Towney007]

Yeah we just need to tamper expectations. For scale, Andre Drummond was the #2 recruit in the country and averaged 10ppg/7rpg in the Big East? I honestly think if Cliff came here we could expect half that his freshman year. His ceiling is 10x higher than Carlton’s but next season alone I think senior Carlton would put up better numbers than freshman Cliff.

Kentucky and Duke have really warped the whole 'one and done' perception. They can put together super teams (even though most of those teams have a lot of upperclass talent that hangs around), but no one else really can. We get sooooo carried away with the quality of our own recruits here it's cringe city.

I mean look at Memphis. Honestly. Top recruiting class in the country and they have entire stretches where they *legitimately* look worse than we do. We need what we've always had in the past - and that's 3 year guys who are great athletes but a bit of a development project. I'm not knocking Cliff - he's exactly the kind of guy we should be going after. But people who think he's coming here and dumping 20 every night need to get their head checked.

Same thing this year. This was an already terrible team losing it's only real scorer and best player. As exciting as Akok, Bouknight and Gaffney are - they're not gonna run everyone off the court year-1. That's fantasy land.

People's expectations around here are totally shot.

 

[bendm]

People's expectations around here are totally shot.

i dont think i'm alone here, but for me, it's more about how bad carlton is than how good cliff may or may not be. i also dont think anyone is disappointed with bouk, or akok in particular, and the board had sky-high expectations for them

 

[Huskyforlife]

Yeah my bad if I’m coming off as aggressive. I’m just like the rest of us - impatient and passionate.

I guess the overall point I’m trying to make is that even though it’s pretty obvious Cliff WILL be a better player than Carlton over the course of his college career, I’m not sure he’ll be ready to take all his minutes from year 1. I think it will take time for him to adjust to division 1 basketball and that Carlton will be the more productive option next year as he’ll have 3 years of experience under his belt. If I’m wrong and Cliff comes here and plays 30 minutes a night that’s wonderful. I just don’t see that happening and think everyone is expecting Cliff to be an instant fix at the center as a freshman. Highly unlikely we get him anyway but we’ll see.

All good, I get the frustration.

One thing to consider if we get Cliff, we wouldn't be asking him to be a 15, 10, and 3 blocks kinda guy. He just needs to out produce carlton and Whaley in the box score, which could literally mean something like an efficient 8, 7, and 2 with solid defense. He'd still be an upgrade. Carltons experience as a 3ish year starter, whaley also a junior, hasn't seemed to help them at all, so at some point their experience doesn't matter.

Gotta love how this conversation is basically pointless as well, since it doesn't sound like we're currently in the drivers seat for him. Although I'm ready to throw my support behind Springs in that event.

 

[Storrs South]

Andre Drummond was the #2 recruit in the country and averaged 10ppg/7rpg in the Big East?

That's probably more to do with playing on a team including NCAA Champions Shabazz Napier, & Jeremy Lamb, + highly touted freshman Ryan Boatright. Those were the 1, 2 and 3 scoring options in 2011-2012 plus NCAA Champion and Junior in Alex Oriakhi on the team.

I do agree with your point though that it's difficult to expect the world from a freshman, but Drummond could have done more for that team if asked and maybe Cliff could too.

 

[SwingDog]

Josh has had some good games this year where he was a contributor on both ends of the floor. The problem is he has been very inconsistent, and sometimes lacks energy and enthusiasm, and appears tentative. Coach Hurley mentioned in the Tulsa game that there will be games where shots don't fall but you still need to keep your head in the game, hustle, and play hard. This has been the most frustrating thing about Josh.

 

[AdamaNation]

Igbanu was averaging 10 ppg and gets a career high 28

Theme of the last 5 years.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Every freshman is better than every upper classmen. That is this and every predecessor board's mantra since Ajou Ajou Deng was sitting on the sidelines.

And the recruits Hurley signs next year will be better than next year's sophomores, because by that point the board will have turned on those players.

 

[pj]

Yeah we just need to tamper expectations. For scale, Andre Drummond was the #2 recruit in the country and averaged 10ppg/7rpg in the Big East? I honestly think if Cliff came here we could expect half that his freshman year. His ceiling is 10x higher than Carlton’s but next season alone I think senior Carlton would put up better numbers than freshman Cliff.

Carlton just had 0 points, 2 rebounds, and 3 fouls against Tulsa, following 0 points, 3 rebounds, 3 fouls against Houston, with his competition for minutes coming from Whaley. You really think he's going to keep Cliff of the court?

It's more likely Carlton is a grad transfer out of here than that he puts up better numbers than a freshman Cliff.

 

[navery12]

I'm not expecting Cliff to come in and average 20 and 10, I think 5 and 5 with around a block a game is fine because he's not gonna be a revolving door for opposing big men like Carlton has been

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yeah my bad if I’m coming off as aggressive. I’m just like the rest of us - impatient and passionate.

I guess the overall point I’m trying to make is that even though it’s pretty obvious Cliff WILL be a better player than Carlton over the course of his college career, I’m not sure he’ll be ready to take all his minutes from year 1. I think it will take time for him to adjust to division 1 basketball and that Carlton will be the more productive option next year as he’ll have 3 years of experience under his belt. If I’m wrong and Cliff comes here and plays 30 minutes a night that’s wonderful. I just don’t see that happening and think everyone is expecting Cliff to be an instant fix at the center as a freshman. Highly unlikely we get him anyway but we’ll see.

These people all penciled in Sid as an immediate day one starter too. Not many freshmen are that, and Cliff is not Wiseman or Embiid or Anthony Davis. He's a couple notches below that. That said, at this point I have doubts that Carlton is even going to be back. I'm increasingly thinking we will get Cliff, and Javonte Brown Ferguson will be the developmental back-up, with Akok and Springs at the 5 and Sid and Jackson at the 3. It would be a monster defensive team.

 

[mauconnfan]

Josh has regressed in a pretty large way. That guy at the latter half of last year has only showed up a couple of games and mostly against smaller lineups. What happened? Was it the weight lifting and added bulk who knows but it's alarming. He went from a kid who looked like he could easily give us 13/7 consistently to a guy who is MIA quite often. His footwork which was slow but effective is now lost, his defense has gone with it. He over hedges and creates open people and too many others leaving their guys to help. He doesn't do anything in a hurry, very strange regression. I mean there's a chance for a player like him to have a summer which takes him in a whole different direction in preparation for next year in which he becomes quicker in his footwork and adds a little explosion. At that point he's a guy who will play minutes next year no doubt. But this is a tough one and I hope Josh makes the changes and adjusts his body back to that which we had hope for.

 

[mauconnfan]

These people all penciled in Sid as an immediate day one starter too. Not many freshmen are that, and Cliff is not Wiseman or Embiid or Anthony Davis. He's a couple notches below that. That said, at this point I have doubts that Carlton is even going to be back. I'm increasingly thinking we will get Cliff, and Javonte Brown Ferguson will be the developmental back-up, with Akok and Springs at the 5 and Sid and Jackson at the 3. It would be a monster defensive team.

Like some of this but Sid and Jackson at the 3 scares me. At least give me one 3 that can make shots I'm simply sick of watching bad shooting. By no means do I not want either guy but th lineup needs shooters and most teams have 3's who can shoot minus is for years now!

 

[HuskyHawk]

Like some of this but Sid and Jackson at the 3 scares me. At least give me one 3 that can make shots I'm simply sick of watching bad shooting. By no means do I not want either guy but th lineup needs shooters and most teams have 3's who can shoot minus is for years now!

Well, I'm hopeful that Seth Towns will actually start at the 3, but I can't quite pencil him in at this point. Sid has hit more 3 pointers than Vital lately so there's that. I don't see anything horrible in his form and he's getting more arc on the ball than last year. Jackson is evidently getting better from outside as well. If Polley is back and healthy you can certainly use him as well.

If we got Towns, Sid would become a flex 3-4 type player.

 

[mauconnfan]

Well, I'm hopeful that Seth Towns will actually start at the 3, but I can't quite pencil him in at this point. Sid has hit more 3 pointers than Vital lately so there's that. I don't see anything horrible in his form and he's getting more arc on the ball than last year. Jackson is evidently getting better from outside as well. If Polley is back and healthy you can certainly use him as well.

If we got Towns, Sid would become a flex 3-4 type player.

Sid is not a good shooter we don't want him taking 3's minus Nova. I still like what he's done to earn minutes 7 rebounds yesterday was nice. He also had his hands on 3-4 others that were either swiped from him or he was fouled without a call. Gilbert also shot almost 50% from 3 in HS so let's not think Jackson is ready to start banging in 3s. Not sure on Polley but would love a healthy Towns. Need good shooters in a huge way.