Candace Parker/Olympic team thread (merged threads)

[UcMiami]

msf22b - do you really expect USA team members or other pool members to make comments on this? None of them want to insert themselves into this issue whatever their personal feelings might be. Not out of fear of any reaction from USA basketball management, but because whatever they have to say can only negatively impact the whole situation. They are all personally happy to have been selected, they all look forward to working with the other team members, and there are a lot of talented players who were not selected probably sums up anything they would have to say to anybody but there best and most trusted friends.

As for USA basketball - the statement: 'We did not select Parker because ... ' is never going to end well for anyone involved. That is true for every personnel decision they have ever made, and the exception has probably been for really young players and included 'needs a little more experience' which is basically what they have said about the guards involved in the Feb training.

And just another thing this 'she is the best player in the world' stuff - she has played for two Olympic coaches in three competitions and has started a total of three games, which tells me that she is considered a 'bench player' when it comes to the NT. She has two fewer starts than the other 2+ time NT player dropped from the team, Candice Dupree who started 5 of 6 games in 2010. She is a very talented player and has had a very nice career but in the last seven years she is one of 6 US players (Jackson won the seventh) to have won MVP of the WNBA and the other five have been able to lead their team to a WNBA final with only the most recent one EDD having failed to win a championship or reach the finals multiple times.

 

[Plebe]

Had to give Michelle a piece of my mind on twitter regarding her latest article about Uconn Women favoritism

Did you DM her or reply to one of her tweets?

 

[Replicant]

Had to give Michelle a piece of my mind on twitter regarding her latest article about Uconn Women favoritism

She writes about "reigniting the idea of favoritism" on the one hand, while holding a gas can in the other..."The U.S. roster should have been built around Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore and Candace Parker. But Parker was left out, reigniting the idea of favoritism within the program toward UConn players."

 

[UcMiami]

Ms Bone has a point and she made it well. It will forever perplex me how a two time WNBA MVP at the height of her game can be left off of any team, much less the US Olympic Team. The US will win without Parker, but that is not the point; The point being that one of the top players in the game was left off of the team; A more egregious omission than the one that cost Kara Lawson four years ago.

As far as her USA basketball career is concerned she has always been a bench player when she has been on the team - in 2008 of the bench players Fowles was probably the 'star' and Catchings, Lawson, and Pondexter were at least as important as Parker. In 2010 and 2014 she was unavailable and in 2012 the star turns off the bench were Whalen and McCoughtry. Parker had her best game of the tournament in a blow out final and her worst game in the toughest game, the semi-final. She is a really good player, and definitely a 'star personality', but in USA basketball circles she is just another member of the NT team pool with 3 NT selections over the last 6 competitions and only 1 over the last four.

 

[UConnCat]

As we've come to expect, a fair and measured story by Jim Fuller on the Parker saga.

The New Haven Register Blogs: Elm City to Eagleville: Explaining Candace Parker's omission from Olympic team no easy chore

Jim was at the USA BB announcement and said that only one question was put to Carol Callan about Parker's absence from the team. Jim includes quotes from Carol Callan, Chris Sienko, Maya and Sue.

Sienko made it clear that Geno has input on the roster but ultimately it's the committee that decides who makes the team.

"The committee is five of us and the coach is obviously involved in the oricess but at the end of rhe day we are responsible for making the selection and not Geno. We want to get input and have an understanding of his feelings but we have to make the decisions."

Jim summarizes his thoughts as follows:

There has been attempts to make this a two-dimensional process. Geno doesn't like Candace, Geno coached Breanna Stewart therefore Stewart makes the team over Parker. I would think it's not quite that simple although it does make it easy for the Geno bashers. I don't question for a second that Auriemma got his wish in this matter with Stewart making the team and being the strong personality that he is, I am sure he did not hold back in expressing his thoughts during the selection of the team. However, to assume that five committee members would just allow Auriemma to walk all over them just to get his way is quite a reach. I doubt Parker, if she has any hopes of making the 2020 Olympics, is going to come out and get into specifics and Callan made it clear that won't happen from USA Basketball's end of things so it will be a case of people choosing whatever side they like. There will be those, like me, that believe that something significant must have taken place behind the scenes for such a drastic move to be made and others will simply go with the "it's all UConn all the time" party line.

I'm kinda with Jim on this. USA BB surely had to expect that a decision not to include Parker on the team would be met with a lot of questions and criticism, yet they decided to do it anyway. They had to believe all the question and criticism would be outweighed the benefit to the team. How else do you explain this? The people who made this decision are not irrational.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Parker is a great player, and I am sure a worthy selection for the team....Yet, she was not chosen..... Two things come to mind....

One is the example of this happening before (being seemingly slighted)..... Coaches in international competitions are eager to staff their teams with those who are going to be a most comfortable fit.... Perhaps this is the thing with Candace I do not know..... It is said that Geno does not have heavy influence on the selection of roster, and maybe that is or is not believable. But I do remember the past and on the mens side, both Bobby Knight and Dean Smith having Indiana and UNC players on their international teams where other seemingly more deserving players were left on the sidelines....

The other thought is that.... having seen this over a lifetime of corporate life .... is that when applying for a job (which this ease ntially is).... the most quailfied person very often misses out on the position for whatever reason..... the hiring manager feels that the person they eventually hired would be a better fit for the organization..... maybe this is the case here....

Don't know, and I don't want to speculate.....

 

[iri10]

His comment as recounted in this piece:

"you don't use a two-time Olympic gold medalist and two-time WNBA MVP to promote and market ... and then cut her."

Any bureaucracy/management team is prone to errors, but I find it hard to believe that even a women's basketball committee would have had the gumption/stupidity to market her if they had known then that she wasn't going to be on the team.

Furthermore, someone pointed out (I think CocoHusky?) that not long ago Geno had praised the way Candace was playing in coordination with some other players on the team. Geno is not unctuous; he's not going to throw out praise for no reason.

Which is why that it's not illogical to assume that something happened or changed in the recent past. We have no details of such a thing happening, but that's not surprising.

 

[01Neaggrad02]

Weren't they picked by a committee with Geno having some say but not the sole say? Also if Geno was going to exclude someone for their attitude/performance I would have to go with Angel.... she is the one I would leave off...

 

[msf22b]

msf22b - do you really expect USA team members or other pool members to make comments on this? .

I though one or another of the "untouchables" maybe not Sue but Diana or Tamika, if they felt really strongly about it might have said something...their silence indicates to me that on some level, they acquiesce.

And perhaps more significant yet, the absence of a clamor from her own teammates in LA is deafening.

I would not want to be in her place this evening; humiliated, passed over...Am I really one of the best players in the world or is it all a mirage?

Stephen Hawking said on Weibo today to his throngs of Chinese fans: We can't tell if life is or is not a dream.

In this case, Candace's nightmare for sure.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Ms Bone has a point and she made it well. It will forever perplex me how a two time WNBA MVP at the height of her game can be left off of any team, much less the US Olympic Team. The US will win without Parker, but that is not the point; The point being that one of the top players in the game was left off of the team; A more egregious omission than the one that cost Kara Lawson four years ago.

I agree!
I don't care which trials (games) she missed (atleast she wasn't at a fashion show like Cappie)... she was resting from a "basketball-related" injury. She had a larger "ego" (popping collars in 2008) in 2012 but was on that team, diva this diva that.
Chemistry issues? Chemistry could've been built around her, shouldn't have been that she's not a good fit with Fowles, Griner or Tina.
She's not strong enough, not a good defender... doesn't slide over quick enough, are you kidding me lol

Cambage... hmmmm, she's not that damn dominating that the USA needs someone other than Parker.

Candace Parker was on all of our 12 player roster for the 2016 Olympic team... but not on the committees.

BTW I dont think Geno had anything to do with it. Of course he's not gonna say anything "bad" about the committee before the games.

this is all "speculation" tho lol

 

[DaddyChoc]

Weren't they picked by a committee with Geno having some say but not the sole say? Also if Geno was going to exclude someone for their attitude/performance I would have to go with Angel.... she is the one I would leave off...

Geno loves Angel and Angel loves Geno

 

[DaddyChoc]

 

[UcMiami]

I though one or another of the "untouchables" maybe not Sue but Diana or Tamika, if they felt really strongly about it might have said something...their silence indicates to me that on some level, they acquiesce.

And perhaps more significant yet, the absence of a clamor from her own teammates in LA is deafening.

I would not want to be in her place this evening; humiliated, passed over...Am I really one of the best players in the world or is it all a mirage?

Stephen Hawking said on Weibo today to his throngs of Chinese fans: We can't tell if life is or is not a dream.

In this case, Candace's nightmare for sure.

I just think most active players just don't want to get embroiled in this - and I wouldn't be surprised if Agler said: OK, your owner and I have expressed our feelings, and we know you all support Candace, but both she and I want the focus in this building and on this team. We have a WNBA season to prepare for, so lets keep focused on that now. The best response we can give is to win our conference, and the WNBA finals and whatever you might want to say is going to distract from that goal.
At least that is what I would say to the team.

 

[malevocalist#]

Did you DM her or reply to one of her tweets?

Replied to one of her tweets

 

[Woof 101]

I agree!
I don't care which trials (games) she missed (atleast she wasn't at a fashion show like Cappie)... she was resting from a "basketball-related" injury. She had a larger "ego" (popping collars in 2008) in 2012 but was on that team, diva this diva that.
Chemistry issues? Chemistry could've been built around her, shouldn't have been that she's not a good fit with Fowles, Griner or Tina.
She's not strong enough, not a good defender... doesn't slide over quick enough, are you kidding me lol

Cambage... hmmmm, she's not that damn dominating that the USA needs someone other than Parker.

Candace Parker was on all of our 12 player roster for the 2016 Olympic team... but not on the committees.

BTW I dont think Geno had anything to do with it. Of course he's not gonna say anything "bad" about the committee before the games.

this is all "speculation" tho lol

DaddyChoc no spitting match here but I have to respectfully agree to disagree with you here. I have read much on this subject and kept to myself on it other than liking your photo above, that is a classic.
Knowing what I know and what I believe you know about the game and the staff involved you may want to rethink the statement.

Chemistry issues? Chemistry could've been built around her, shouldn't have been that she's not a good fit with Fowles, Griner or Tina.
What we have here are world class athletes on a limited practice schedule. This with a world class coaching staff to go along with direction from the national committee. Why in the world would any (US) team / staff waste time to build chemistry around a single player? NOT Genos MO and you may have hit the nail on the head without knowing it! He just may have had some influence here.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Angel is a talent, and Geno knows that. Angel played well in 2012--when this pic was taken--but she played poorly in 2014. In Turkey, 9 players played well. Odyssey and Stewie played very little, so they don't count. Angel was out of control and not doing what the coaches wanted, so she had limited PT. All the others--Sue, Dee, Tina, Maya, Brit, Lindsay, Seimone, Candice, and Nneka--played well.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Chemistry could've been built around her...

I disagree.

You can't build chemistry around SOMEONE; chemistry is something grows BETWEEN people. Building it around SOMEONE is akin to a Cult of Personality. You can't force people to get along; that just plain doesn't work.

This is NOT a statement regarding Parker, just a commentary on the concept.

 

[hjoerring]

You are talented. You have high grades and SAT scores to prove that. It may not be enough to get you in Harvard. This does not send a message to young girls (or even young boys) that working hard goes unrewarded.

We need to get off this entitlement train. If everyone with a perfect score (or those trying the hardest)/game we would not have enough space at Harvard or on a team. In real life this is where things become interesting-- not the 'I worked my ass off to get an "A" and you are telling me that I may not be selected!' Each player was selected (if we think beyond conspiracy) based on what the team needed and how they complimented one another, and yes, whether are are willing to do what is asked of them. We can be surprised because we are on the outside looking in and playing with cardboard figures. Any of the selected players could equally have been selected against-- using age, how long they have been on USA bb, etc. And as one person suggested, one or two players from each WNBA team, etc. But what would this not answer? Images (many XUconn players) can be deceptive and will give ample amunition for the peanut gallery to go amok.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I disagree.

You can't build chemistry around SOMEONE; chemistry is something grows BETWEEN people. Building it around SOMEONE is akin to a Cult of Personality. You can't force people to get along; that just plain doesn't work.

This is NOT a statement regarding Parker, just a commentary on the concept.

I rather is be about Parker.

and why is chemistry being thrown around, good fit etc. We hear of "building a team around Taurasi". Depends on what type of getting along you're talking about. We're not talking about "bashing each other heads in then go out for a glass of wine... its not going to happen".

she was a problem in 2012?

 

[NoelAustin]

It was the third gold for former UConn stars Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi. Asked at a postgame news conference what it meant to win one for her coach and confidant Geno Auriemma, the normally bubbly Taurasi choked back a sob. "He knows me better than anyone else on this earth, including my family," said Taurasi, as tears trickled down her face.

Parker understands. She dedicated her gold medal to Auriemma's longtime rival Pat Summitt, the legendary Tennessee coach who shocked the basketball world by announcing she is fighting early onset Alzheimer's.

After her disappointing game in the semifinals against Australia, Parker tried to call Summitt, but was unable to reach her.

"She's watched every game," Parker reported. "We've traded texts. A huge piece of this gold medal goes to her.

"I wouldn't be here if not for her."

------ Has anyone suggested that perhaps Geno and Candace don't have good chemistry, and that the selection committee has concluded as much? Has there ever been another time that a player, after winning a world championship, dedicated a gold medal to the historical nemesis of her current coach? Does anyone really believe that Candace would not have become an all-world talent without Pat's influence? Candace is one of a few players (along with Maya Moore and Tamika Catchings and maybe Griner) who could have gone right from high school to starting in the WNBA. I believe this is about personalities and team chemistry, not about current basketball ability. It is also about the incredible wealth of talent that Team USA has to choose from. Still very disappointed that Parker will not be there.

 

[HuskyNan]

Guys, Parker isn't on the team. Forcing the other guy to agree with you isn't going to put her on the team. What is the point of all this back and forth?

 

[Jim]

Some people are saying this was a Parker vs Stewart pick, but I don't think it came down to those two at all. I think the final choice was between Candace and Tina Charles. Here's my reasoning:

I agree with SwishNDish's assessment that you need Griner and Big Syl down low to deal with some of the international centers, and to give them room to operate you need your 4 to be a threat from the perimeter. Since Stewie and EDD are bigger 3-point threats than Candace, those two were solidly on the team. That leave Candace and Tina, who are sort of 'tweeters -- immensely talented but not as big at the 5 and not as good 3-point threats at the 4. So now the issue is if BG and Sylvia get into foul trouble, who would do better at the 5. When you add in Geno's familiarity with Tina, and I think there was a little favoritism here, Tina gets the nod over Candace.

I think a more interesting topic to debate is if an injury occurs to one of the 12 picks before the Games start, will Candace be asked to fill that spot and would she accept if offered?

 

[Icebear]

The back and forth makes me think through issues I may not consider and forces me to clarify exactly what I am trying to express. I don't understand why disagreement is threatening to some people. More insight is gained through honest disagreement than is ever gained through rah, rah agreement. Compromise and agreement is developed by first understanding the depth and breadth of disagreement and the nature, strengths and weaknesses, of who you are in an exchange of ideas with.

 

[bleeckerhusky]

The back and forth makes me think through issues I may not consider and forces me to clarify exactly what I am trying to express. I don't understand why disagreement is threatening to some people. More insight is gained through honest disagreement than is ever gained through rah, rah agreement. Compromise and agreement is developed by first understanding the depth and breadth of disagreement and the nature, strengths and weaknesses, of who you are in an exchange of ideas with.

I agree with Icebear. When something unusual or unexpected happens, people want to try to understand what may have caused it.

 

[HuskyNan]

There has been nothing new added to these threads except veiled, or not so veiled, shots at various players. But carry on, if you must.