Butler Postgame Thread | Page 9 | The Boneyard

Butler Postgame Thread

You can't be that bad of a judge of ability "completely abandoning having any athleticism" as relates to Mullins is actually pretty bad take, kid has serious hops and quickness.
Idk - nice athlete but I’m not looking at him as that much of a plus there. Good athletes use their physicality to be disruptive, great defenders, play vertically, use their body to create. I wouldn’t say Mullins falls into that category at all. He’s an ok defender, is very handsy.

Maybe we can grab one of these guys in the portal.

 
No one said Mullins isn't great. It's that Hurley has drifted towards this over abundance of shooter profiles, completely abandoning having any athleticism. Our incoming HS recruits are below the rim athletes. We opted for the best "shooter" of this past years class, when our 2 and 4 are limited to that profile. Bringing in kids like Furphy and now recruiting Pierce. Mahaney. Hurley may as well be Gene Hackman.

This is so dumb. It's just complaining about the opposite of what we have, when what we're doing works. He has a system that he needs shooters and BBIQ guys, he doesn't have an ISO system.

Can we mix athleticism in? Sure. Our guys aren't bad athletes, but as always you act like it's completely black and white. He's bringing in shooters who can't move or jump and nothing else. That's just not true and is a typical over-simplification.

If he brings in a bunch of great athletes that aren't great shooters or thinkers, I guarantee our O is looking terrible and we're all complaining that Hurley's "system" isn't working.
 
Yes, want the list? There are two in the BE alone.
I do not know about 20
Steph was in a terrible HS class, apples & oranges:

List of frosh this year based on PPG per 36, only draft prospects. He's 16 here, but you can add kids that aren't draft prospects this year like Acaden Lewis & Nigel James, others as well.

A kid like Tounde could have been a really nice fit in bringing in that athlete we are sorely missing. This team is simply missing athletecism. Not sure why Hurley has completely abandoned that profile since it was at the core of his B2B.
  • AJ Dybantsa — 26.9 ppg
  • Darryn Peterson — 26.6 ppg
  • Cameron Boozer — 25.2 ppg
  • Ebuka Okorie — 23.9 ppg
  • Caleb Wilson — 22.8 ppg
  • Darius Acuff — 22.1 ppg
  • Mikel Brown Jr. — 21.7 ppg
  • Nate Ament — 21.0 ppg
  • Tounde Yessoufou — 21.0 ppg
  • Keaton Wagler — 20.2 ppg
  • Brayden Burries — 19.7 ppg
  • Meleek Thomas — 19.6 ppg
  • Kingston Flemings — 19.2 ppg
  • Hannes Steinbach — 18.8 ppg
  • Koa Peat — 18.5 ppg
  • Braylon Mullins — 16.2 ppg
  • Amari Allen — 14.8 ppg
  • Chris Cenac Jr. — 14.1 ppg
I think the better point is being lost by people who argue for the sake of arguing. In this list, there are two players who are generational talents: AJ and Peterson. And Peterson plays Braylon's position. Go and watch Peterson play and then come back to argue that Braylon is in his class. On the other hand, there is no other guard in the country I would 'trade' for Braylon (other than Peterson). And that means that having him adds value to our team. Another point is that Braylon could easily be averaging more points per game for most other teams.
 
This is so dumb. It's just complaining about the opposite of what we have, when what we're doing works. He has a system that he needs shooters and BBIQ guys, he doesn't have an ISO system.

Can we mix athleticism in? Sure. Our guys aren't bad athletes, but as always you act like it's completely black and white. He's bringing in shooters who can't move or jump and nothing else. That's just not true and is a typical over-simplification.

If he brings in a bunch of great athletes that aren't great shooters or thinkers, I guarantee our O is looking terrible and we're all complaining that Hurley's "system" isn't working.
Listen any “complaint”/observation is nit picking obviously. We are 23-2 and poised for a one seed. I’m certainly not suggesting the program needs wholesales modifications. We have a wonderful product. It’s simply an observation that we’ve moved away from a key ingredient in record breaking teams of just two years ago, to a profile that tends to lead towards a less dynamic roster and much less “bullet proof”. If this team has an off shooting game against the top 15 of the country, how confident are we that we can still win? We just lost to the most athletic team in the conference while shooting 55%.
 
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Listen any “complaint”/observation is nit picking obviously. We are 23-2 and poised for a one seed. I’m certainly not suggesting the program needs wholesales modifications. We have a wonderful product. It’s simply an observation that we’ve moved away from a key ingredient in record breaking teams of just two years ago, to a profile that tends to lead towards a less dynamic roster and much less “bullet proof”. If this team has an off shooting game against the top 15 of the country, how confident are we that we can still win? We just lost to the most athletic team in the conference while shooting 55%.

In our starting lineup of freshman 5 star Castle, Cam Spencer, Alex Karaban, Tristen Newton and Donovan Clingan, which guys were the athletes you're pining for? Castle would be the only one, and he wasn't an offensive creator and finisher in his 1 year like you're suggesting we need. So I just don't get the argument.
 
If he brings in a bunch of great athletes that aren't great shooters or thinkers, I guarantee our O is looking terrible and we're all complaining that Hurley's "system" isn't working.

This is what drives me crazy about his "we need athletes" . When we weren't winning anything people were saying "we need hoopers not athletes" and we got hoopers and have basically been at the top of the sport for the last however many years and now the complaint is we're not athletic enough.
 
In our starting lineup of freshman 5 star Castle, Cam Spencer, Alex Karaban, Tristen Newton and Donovan Clingan, which guys were the athletes you're pining for? Castle would be the only one, and he wasn't an offensive creator and finisher in his 1 year like you're suggesting we need. So I just don't get the argument.
He was a lock down defender, was disruptive, played above the rim. So yeah, him. And sure he could create off the dribble. Andre was the same, plucked steals and turned them into transition. They’re the kind of catalysts that take a team from good to great. They don’t have to be great shooters. Look how disruptive a Mitchell was against us.
 
This is what drives me crazy about his "we need athletes" . When we weren't winning anything people were saying "we need hoopers not athletes" and we got hoopers and have basically been at the top of the sport for the last however many years and now the complaint is we're not athletic enough.
Precisely.

He was a lock down defender, was disruptive, played above the rim. So yeah, him. And sure he could create off the dribble. Andre was the same, plucked steals and turned them into transition. They’re the kind of catalysts that take a team from good to great. They don’t have to be great shooters. Look how disruptive a Mitchell was against us.

So there was 1 on each team, and they were more so athletically important on D.

So what you said about those teams being built on high level athleticism is just not correct. Cam, Tristen, Alex, Sanogo these guys are the total opposite of what you’re talking about.

Personally, and from a coaching perspective, I’m with the staff on this one. I’ll take shooters, hoopers and competitors over plus athletes all day.
 
No one said Mullins isn't great. It's that Hurley has drifted towards this over abundance of shooter profiles, completely abandoning having any athleticism. Our incoming HS recruits are below the rim athletes. We opted for the best "shooter" of this past years class, when our 2 and 4 are limited to that profile. Bringing in kids like Furphy and now recruiting Pierce. Mahaney. Hurley may as well be Gene Hackman.
Mullins is our best athlete. Ross might beat him in a dunk contest but his athleticism rarely translates to the court.

I agree Hurley is too focused now on finesse and hasn't brought in an elite physical athlete since Jackson and Castle but using Braylon as an example is ridiculous.
 
Reibe HAS to get time because Reed can't do a full 40 with all that's being asked from him. Need more help rebounding from everyone.
No doubt. I just think the minutes he's getting recently are about what he's going to get unless there's foul trouble.

He's averaging 13 minutes and 5 pts per game the last 10-15 games since Reed got back full time. The minutes against SJU likely were due to Zuby being a tough matchup and last night, Reed was a beast in the 2nd half.

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Oh, by the way, I don’t believe Butler set one single legal screen, which makes your defense look worse than it was, because it gives them an unfair advantage, which is why they’re illegal.
We should have blown them all up like Demary did when he ran the Butler player over and the Butler guy got called for the illegal screen he set. Of course it is rather dangerous also since Demary took a good pounding for doing it.
 
Mullins is our best athlete. Ross might beat him in a dunk contest but his athleticism rarely translates to the court.

I agree Hurley is too focused now on finesse and hasn't brought in an elite physical athlete since Jackson and Castle but using Braylon as an example is ridiculous.

Don't forget about Solo's athleticism - he uses it to attack, jump/shoot, and block shots. Wish he would use it rebound better.
 
This is what drives me crazy about his "we need athletes" . When we weren't winning anything people were saying "we need hoopers not athletes" and we got hoopers and have basically been at the top of the sport for the last however many years and now the complaint is we're not athletic enough.
It’s not that hard to get 1-2 of these kids on the roster. We are stashing kids like Furphy there, who is a void of athleticism. We brought Mahaney & McNeeley in last year expecting them to be part of a unit alongside AK & Solo? County and Landrew aren't going to blow anyone away with their athleticism.
Mullins is our best athlete. Ross might beat him in a dunk contest but his athleticism rarely translates to the court.

I agree Hurley is too focused now on finesse and hasn't brought in an elite physical athlete since Jackson and Castle but using Braylon as an example is ridiculous
Totally agree with Mullins, which speaks volumes. It a trend. We seem to be moving away from a profile that was central at delivering two dominants NCs. This isn't a complaint, because we are 23-2, it's an observation. Ross is more of a striding athlete than a quick twitch type. He's not going to beat another player to a ball.
Don't forget about Solo's athleticism - he uses it to attack, jump/shoot, and block shots. Wish he would use it rebound better.
Solo is by no means a plus athlete, at all. Last night, Solo did nothing in the box other than sink shots, which is massively valuable. I think he had one rebound and 0 assists, didn't do much of anything else. Which is fine because he just doesn't seem to have the kind of versatility to do many things well at once, and keeping him in the shooting zone is where he's needed most.
 
I wouldn't consider us unathletic or anything but I think it's a fair observation that this years squad is missing the absolute freak athlete that both of Danny Hurley's championship teams had in Jackson and Castle. It's more apparent to me on the defensive end. By March and April in the championship years, Hurley was able to pick which opposing guard/wing he wanted to completely neutralize by putting his best athlete on them. Ultimately this team may still be able to achieve all of its goals regardless of that but it is an element they don't appear to have.

On Friday, it kind of felt like St Johns had that guy in Dylan Mitchell. Once he was switched onto Mullins, Braylon had a harder time contributing.
 
Yes, want the list? There are two in the BE alone.
Yeah lets see it, are the two in the big east on a top 10 kenpom team playing with four national champions on their team? I literally said, relative to their team's talent level. Yeah if he was on some Big East team like Stefaan Vaks, Im sure he'd have the ball alot more and average more because he has to.......
 
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We really need a smh emoji.
It’s not that hard to get 1-2 of these kids on the roster. We are stashing kids like Furphy there, who is a void of athleticism. We brought Mahaney & McNeeley in last year expecting them to be part of a unit alongside AK & Solo? County and Landrew aren't going to blow anyone away with their athleticism.

Totally agree with Mullins, which speaks volumes. It a trend. We seem to be moving away from a profile that was central at delivering two dominants NCs. This isn't a complaint, because we are 23-2, it's an observation. Ross is more of a striding athlete than a quick twitch type. He's not going to beat another player to a ball.

Solo is by no means a plus athlete, at all. Last night, Solo did nothing in the box other than sink shots, which is massively valuable. I think he had one rebound and 0 assists, didn't do much of anything else. Which is fine because he just doesn't seem to have the kind of versatility to do many things well at once, and keeping him in the shooting zone is where he's needed most.
I think you are confusing athleticism with performance.
 
It’s not that hard to get 1-2 of these kids on the roster. We are stashing kids like Furphy there, who is a void of athleticism. We brought Mahaney & McNeeley in last year expecting them to be part of a unit alongside AK & Solo? County and Landrew aren't going to blow anyone away with their athleticism.

Totally agree with Mullins, which speaks volumes. It a trend. We seem to be moving away from a profile that was central at delivering two dominants NCs. This isn't a complaint, because we are 23-2, it's an observation. Ross is more of a striding athlete than a quick twitch type. He's not going to beat another player to a ball.

Solo is by no means a plus athlete, at all. Last night, Solo did nothing in the box other than sink shots, which is massively valuable. I think he had one rebound and 0 assists, didn't do much of anything else. Which is fine because he just doesn't seem to have the kind of versatility to do many things well at once, and keeping him in the shooting zone is where he's needed most.

You are ALL over the place.

You keep repeating something that we know isn’t true: quick twitch athleticism was not central to our b2b championships.
 
I wouldn't consider us unathletic or anything but I think it's a fair observation that this years squad is missing the absolute freak athlete that both of Danny Hurley's championship teams had in Jackson and Castle. It's more apparent to me on the defensive end. By March and April in the championship years, Hurley was able to pick which opposing guard/wing he wanted to completely neutralize by putting his best athlete on them. Ultimately this team may still be able to achieve all of its goals regardless of that but it is an element they don't appear to have.

On Friday, it kind of felt like St Johns had that guy in Dylan Mitchell. Once he was switched onto Mullins, Braylon had a harder time contributing.

That’s fair and not exactly what Ruff was saying.

As usual he is making points way too definitively and extreme.
 
You are ALL over the place.

You keep repeating something that we know isn’t true: quick twitch athleticism was not central to our b2b championships.
He's like, Solo isn't athletic because he didn't fill the stat sheet, and Reed did but he's not athletic because he plays below the rim, and Braylon isn't because (answer uncertain). He's just throwing stuff against the wall, just to show he's not satisfied, or something
 
You are ALL over the place.

You keep repeating something that we know isn’t true: quick twitch athleticism was not central to our b2b championships.
This is true but we had one elite physical run and jump athlete on both of those teams. We also had lob threats and the biggest player we've ever had as a defensive cheat code. We still had a lob threat in Samson last season but we've been lacking the elite physical run and jump athlete the past two seasons and we didn't address that with our recruits coming in next season. Hopefully we address it in the portal.
 
In our starting lineup of freshman 5 star Castle, Cam Spencer, Alex Karaban, Tristen Newton and Donovan Clingan, which guys were the athletes you're pining for? Castle would be the only one, and he wasn't an offensive creator and finisher in his 1 year like you're suggesting we need. So I just don't get the argument.
will you STOP trying to use logic with this guy??
 
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You are ALL over the place.

You keep repeating something that we know isn’t true: quick twitch athleticism was not central to our b2b championships.
I mean, Landrew is DEFINITELY not an athlete. He was only getting offers from the Alabama's of the world as a WR because.......

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
 

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