Butler Postgame Thread | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Butler Postgame Thread

No one said Mullins isn't great. It's that Hurley has drifted towards this over abundance of shooter profiles, completely abandoning having any athleticism. Our incoming HS recruits are below the rim athletes. We opted for the best "shooter" of this past years class, when our 2 and 4 are limited to that profile. Bringing in kids like Furphy and now recruiting Pierce. Mahaney. Hurley may as well be Gene Hackman.
Mullins is our best athlete. Ross might beat him in a dunk contest but his athleticism rarely translates to the court.

I agree Hurley is too focused now on finesse and hasn't brought in an elite physical athlete since Jackson and Castle but using Braylon as an example is ridiculous.
 
Reibe HAS to get time because Reed can't do a full 40 with all that's being asked from him. Need more help rebounding from everyone.
No doubt. I just think the minutes he's getting recently are about what he's going to get unless there's foul trouble.

He's averaging 13 minutes and 5 pts per game the last 10-15 games since Reed got back full time. The minutes against SJU likely were due to Zuby being a tough matchup and last night, Reed was a beast in the 2nd half.

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Oh, by the way, I don’t believe Butler set one single legal screen, which makes your defense look worse than it was, because it gives them an unfair advantage, which is why they’re illegal.
We should have blown them all up like Demary did when he ran the Butler player over and the Butler guy got called for the illegal screen he set. Of course it is rather dangerous also since Demary took a good pounding for doing it.
 
Mullins is our best athlete. Ross might beat him in a dunk contest but his athleticism rarely translates to the court.

I agree Hurley is too focused now on finesse and hasn't brought in an elite physical athlete since Jackson and Castle but using Braylon as an example is ridiculous.

Don't forget about Solo's athleticism - he uses it to attack, jump/shoot, and block shots. Wish he would use it rebound better.
 
This is what drives me crazy about his "we need athletes" . When we weren't winning anything people were saying "we need hoopers not athletes" and we got hoopers and have basically been at the top of the sport for the last however many years and now the complaint is we're not athletic enough.
It’s not that hard to get 1-2 of these kids on the roster. We are stashing kids like Furphy there, who is a void of athleticism. We brought Mahaney & McNeeley in last year expecting them to be part of a unit alongside AK & Solo? County and Landrew aren't going to blow anyone away with their athleticism.
Mullins is our best athlete. Ross might beat him in a dunk contest but his athleticism rarely translates to the court.

I agree Hurley is too focused now on finesse and hasn't brought in an elite physical athlete since Jackson and Castle but using Braylon as an example is ridiculous
Totally agree with Mullins, which speaks volumes. It a trend. We seem to be moving away from a profile that was central at delivering two dominants NCs. This isn't a complaint, because we are 23-2, it's an observation. Ross is more of a striding athlete than a quick twitch type. He's not going to beat another player to a ball.
Don't forget about Solo's athleticism - he uses it to attack, jump/shoot, and block shots. Wish he would use it rebound better.
Solo is by no means a plus athlete, at all. Last night, Solo did nothing in the box other than sink shots, which is massively valuable. I think he had one rebound and 0 assists, didn't do much of anything else. Which is fine because he just doesn't seem to have the kind of versatility to do many things well at once, and keeping him in the shooting zone is where he's needed most.
 
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I wouldn't consider us unathletic or anything but I think it's a fair observation that this years squad is missing the absolute freak athlete that both of Danny Hurley's championship teams had in Jackson and Castle. It's more apparent to me on the defensive end. By March and April in the championship years, Hurley was able to pick which opposing guard/wing he wanted to completely neutralize by putting his best athlete on them. Ultimately this team may still be able to achieve all of its goals regardless of that but it is an element they don't appear to have.

On Friday, it kind of felt like St Johns had that guy in Dylan Mitchell. Once he was switched onto Mullins, Braylon had a harder time contributing.
 
Yes, want the list? There are two in the BE alone.
Yeah lets see it, are the two in the big east on a top 10 kenpom team playing with four national champions on their team? I literally said, relative to their team's talent level. Yeah if he was on some shit Big East team like Stefaan Vaks, Im sure he'd have the ball alot more and average more because he has to.......
 
We really need a smh emoji.
It’s not that hard to get 1-2 of these kids on the roster. We are stashing kids like Furphy there, who is a void of athleticism. We brought Mahaney & McNeeley in last year expecting them to be part of a unit alongside AK & Solo? County and Landrew aren't going to blow anyone away with their athleticism.

Totally agree with Mullins, which speaks volumes. It a trend. We seem to be moving away from a profile that was central at delivering two dominants NCs. This isn't a complaint, because we are 23-2, it's an observation. Ross is more of a striding athlete than a quick twitch type. He's not going to beat another player to a ball.

Solo is by no means a plus athlete, at all. Last night, Solo did nothing in the box other than sink shots, which is massively valuable. I think he had one rebound and 0 assists, didn't do much of anything else. Which is fine because he just doesn't seem to have the kind of versatility to do many things well at once, and keeping him in the shooting zone is where he's needed most.
I think you are confusing athleticism with performance.
 
It’s not that hard to get 1-2 of these kids on the roster. We are stashing kids like Furphy there, who is a void of athleticism. We brought Mahaney & McNeeley in last year expecting them to be part of a unit alongside AK & Solo? County and Landrew aren't going to blow anyone away with their athleticism.

Totally agree with Mullins, which speaks volumes. It a trend. We seem to be moving away from a profile that was central at delivering two dominants NCs. This isn't a complaint, because we are 23-2, it's an observation. Ross is more of a striding athlete than a quick twitch type. He's not going to beat another player to a ball.

Solo is by no means a plus athlete, at all. Last night, Solo did nothing in the box other than sink shots, which is massively valuable. I think he had one rebound and 0 assists, didn't do much of anything else. Which is fine because he just doesn't seem to have the kind of versatility to do many things well at once, and keeping him in the shooting zone is where he's needed most.

You are ALL over the place.

You keep repeating something that we know isn’t true: quick twitch athleticism was not central to our b2b championships.
 
I wouldn't consider us unathletic or anything but I think it's a fair observation that this years squad is missing the absolute freak athlete that both of Danny Hurley's championship teams had in Jackson and Castle. It's more apparent to me on the defensive end. By March and April in the championship years, Hurley was able to pick which opposing guard/wing he wanted to completely neutralize by putting his best athlete on them. Ultimately this team may still be able to achieve all of its goals regardless of that but it is an element they don't appear to have.

On Friday, it kind of felt like St Johns had that guy in Dylan Mitchell. Once he was switched onto Mullins, Braylon had a harder time contributing.

That’s fair and not exactly what Ruff was saying.

As usual he is making points way too definitively and extreme.
 
You are ALL over the place.

You keep repeating something that we know isn’t true: quick twitch athleticism was not central to our b2b championships.
He's like, Solo isn't athletic because he didn't fill the stat sheet, and Reed did but he's not athletic because he plays below the rim, and Braylon isn't because (answer uncertain). He's just throwing stuff against the wall, just to show he's not satisfied, or something
 
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You are ALL over the place.

You keep repeating something that we know isn’t true: quick twitch athleticism was not central to our b2b championships.
This is true but we had one elite physical run and jump athlete on both of those teams. We also had lob threats and the biggest player we've ever had as a defensive cheat code. We still had a lob threat in Samson last season but we've been lacking the elite physical run and jump athlete the past two seasons and we didn't address that with our recruits coming in next season. Hopefully we address it in the portal.
 
In our starting lineup of freshman 5 star Castle, Cam Spencer, Alex Karaban, Tristen Newton and Donovan Clingan, which guys were the athletes you're pining for? Castle would be the only one, and he wasn't an offensive creator and finisher in his 1 year like you're suggesting we need. So I just don't get the argument.
will you STOP trying to use logic with this guy??
 
He's like, Solo isn't athletic because he didn't fill the stat sheet, and Reed did but he's not athletic because he plays below the rim, and Braylon isn't because (answer uncertain). He's just throwing stuff against the wall, just to show he's not satisfied, or something
How hard is this to process - we don't have an athlete like Step or AJx, two players that were foundational for two amazing runs, given their defense and ability to be catalysts athletically. We don't have anything that looks like them and seem to have abandoned it. Not only does having players like that afford a more balanced & dynamic roster, but they are also fun to watch. Players that can make plays, play above the rim, are a lot more fun than jump shooting contests.

These are generally players that can slam home a put back, or take a lob. Ross has some of it selectively, but he's not a twitchy/quick athlete as much as he is an average athlete with some length.

You have this thing where you'd rather attack the poster than simply raise a counterpoint.
This is true but we had one elite physical run and jump athlete on both of those teams. We also had lob threats and the biggest player we've ever had as a defensive cheat code. We still had a lob threat in Samson last season but we've been lacking the elite physical run and jump athlete the past two seasons and we didn't address that with our recruits coming in next season. Hopefully we address it in the portal.
I think the portal is a hard place to find them. A kid like Mitchell obviously was out of the portal, Yaxel. They're out there. A kid like Carr at MSU qualifies.
 
This is true but we had one elite physical run and jump athlete on both of those teams. We also had lob threats and the biggest player we've ever had as a defensive cheat code. We still had a lob threat in Samson last season but we've been lacking the elite physical run and jump athlete the past two seasons and we didn't address that with our recruits coming in next season. Hopefully we address it in the portal.

Sure. I think I said (maybe I didn’t) I’m good with a guy with elite athleticism being a Swiss army defender…maybe Ross was meant as that.

But ultimately the guy has to be good enough to play meaningful minutes and if I’m choosing between players and athletes, I know who I’m taking.

Also, main point being, Ruff keeps saying our whole team identity 23-24 was based on elite athleticism. That’s just not true.

Saying our b2b was based on elite athleticism is a far cry from saying “we could use 1 elite athleticism defender”
 
Sure. I think I said (maybe I didn’t) I’m good with a guy with elite athleticism being a Swiss army defender…maybe Ross was meant as that.

But ultimately the guy has to be good enough to play meaningful minutes and if I’m choosing between players and athletes, I know who I’m taking.

Also, main point being, Ruff keeps saying our whole team identity 23-24 was based on elite athleticism. That’s just not true.

Saying our b2b was based on elite athleticism is a far cry from saying “we could use 1 elite athleticism defender”
Not sure why my points get twisted - no, I didn't say those teams were entirely based on that, what I said was that guys like AJx and Steph were core to our success, and dominance. We overwhelmed teams.

Newt, Spencer, AK, are not great athletes. We have one player on each of those teams that was a difference maker athletically and complimented the stable of shooters in other positions. Nowadays, we are just shooters everywhere.
 
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The reason your points get twisted is cuz you say definitive things like “at the core of our championships” and “completely abandoned recruiting athleticism” … try not using such absolutes unless you want to stand by those things.

Now you’re agreeing with others that it would be nice to add 1 plus athlete, that’s not at all what you originally were saying.
 
Sure. I think I said (maybe I didn’t) I’m good with a guy with elite athleticism being a Swiss army defender…maybe Ross was meant as that.

But ultimately the guy has to be good enough to play meaningful minutes and if I’m choosing between players and athletes, I know who I’m taking.

Also, main point being, Ruff keeps saying our whole team identity 23-24 was based on elite athleticism. That’s just not true.

Saying our b2b was based on elite athleticism is a far cry from saying “we could use 1 elite athleticism defender”
It's something we can get around and still reach our goals if our execution is great and we make shots but it's leaving us with very little room for error. I was worried about St. John's exposing it (they did) and I'm still worried about St. John's in the one or two more times we face them. There are a few better versions of St. John's around the country where we will be at a pretty substantial athletic disadvantage.

I know I'm a broken record on this but I think we should've made Toure our top priority recruit for next season.

IMO, getting at least one elite physical run and jump athlete is more than a nice to have thing. I think it's pretty essential.
 
You have this thing where you'd rather attack the poster than simply raise a counterpoint.
You keep wanting to police what a message board is and isn't. Sometimes there's no counterpoint to be made because the point in question makes no sense. Sometimes a poster just needs to hear that they're full of it. Often, actually.
 
It's something we can get around and still reach our goals if our execution is great and we make shots but it's leaving us with very little room for error. I was worried about St. John's exposing it (they did) and I'm still worried about St. John's in the one or two more times we face them. There are a few better versions of St. John's around the country where we will be at a pretty substantial athletic disadvantage.

I know I'm a broken record on this but I think we should've made Toure our top priority recruit for next season.

IMO, getting at least one elite physical run and jump athlete is more than a nice to have thing. I think it's pretty essential.
And I’m crying over some milk I spilled.
 
It's something we can get around and still reach our goals if our execution is great and we make shots but it's leaving us with very little room for error. I was worried about St. John's exposing it (they did) and I'm still worried about St. John's in the one or two more times we face them. There are a few better versions of St. John's around the country where we will be at a pretty substantial athletic disadvantage.

I know I'm a broken record on this but I think we should've made Toure our top priority recruit for next season.

IMO, getting at least one elite physical run and jump athlete is more than a nice to have thing. I think it's pretty essential.
I'm sure we were right there until Arkansas came in with a price that would have been ridiculous to top
 
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Taris did an excellent job in identifying the double teams, after a tough start, and finding the open teammate. His passing is what (IMO) opened things up for him.
7 assists for him had to be a career high - hopefully that's a tool he keeps in his toolkit.
 
There is no argument with hurleys success, his system or the players he has brought in. The results speak for themselves.

But I sometimes think I might enjoy watching the games a little more if just every so often a fast break was run to perfection, a player took his man off the dribble and posterized the help defender or out of nowhere a player threw down a thunderous put-back over the defense rather than always praying for a three point jump shot to go in.
 
How hard is this to process - we don't have an athlete like Step or AJx, two players that were foundational for two amazing runs, given their defense and ability to be catalysts athletically. We don't have anything that looks like them and seem to have abandoned it. Not only does having players like that afford a more balanced & dynamic roster, but they are also fun to watch. Players that can make plays, play above the rim, are a lot more fun than jump shooting contests.

These are generally players that can slam home a put back, or take a lob. Ross has some of it selectively, but he's not a twitchy/quick athlete as much as he is an average athlete with some length.

You have this thing where you'd rather attack the poster than simply raise a counterpoint.

I think the portal is a hard place to find them. A kid like Mitchell obviously was out of the portal, Yaxel. They're out there. A kid like Carr at MSU qualifies.
No CBB team has a Steph or Ajax
 
Taris did an excellent job in identifying the double teams, after a tough start, and finding the open teammate. His passing is what (IMO) opened things up for him.
I really hope something clicked for Tarris last night. He was drawing people and making great reads/passes in that second half along with some powerful finishes around the hoop. He's our one physical dude who is capable of going beast mode around the rim. If he is fully engaged, aggressive and making the right decisions it changes the whole team as does Solo making threes. Fingers crossed both players turned a corner last night.
 
No CBB team has a Steph or Ajax
StJ - Mitchell
MSU - Carr

But you're right, not many of them to go around. Those two stand out, might be missing some.

Budinga at the 5, same with Florida's 5.
 
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