Butler Post Game Thread

[Waquoit]

Always wonder how accurate this is with 23 year old kids in amazing physical condition playing 2 games a week.

You're not giving weight to mental energy expended. Playing all those minutes in tight games with the ball in your hands all the time.

 

[ctbro1999]

And won the Bob Cousy award for being the best point guard in the country

Anyone who says Newton was just "a good role player" is obviously a troll.

 

[LIUCHusky]

We couldn't guard Telfort last night. Karaban (who was a teammate of Telfort at New Hampton Prep), couldn't keep him from going to his right and driving in for a layup. That was Butler's offense in the late stages last night.

We've been spoiled. Last year's team would beat this year's team by 15, but that doesn't mean there is no fight in these guys. Karaban took over the game in the last few minutes for us and got some key baskets. Without McNeeley we don't have enough scoring options right now.

Last years team beat most teams by 15. No shame in getting beaten by 15 by 2024 team.

 

[ctbro1999]

You're not giving weight to mental energy expended. Playing all those minutes in tight games with the ball in your hands all the time.

Also, it's not like we're playing zone on defense where guys don't have to chase around their man everywhere, or he's a big that can hang out in the paint most defensive possessions. Diarra's glued to his man most of the time. Even if they are "only" playing 2x a week, that will take a toll on pretty much anyone over the course of a 30+ game season regardless of conditioning.
And that's not even taking into account the mental energy guys need to expend.

 

[Griggs]

View attachment 106416

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!

 

[gsmooth]

I’m not saying Diarra is good at the end of the shot clock. But it’s obvious that’s what we trust him to do because he has the ball almost every single time it happens.

I don’t know why we don’t give Solo the ball more at the end of games

Solo isn't a shot creator off the dribble, that's why. End of games situations you usually want a ball handler that can create a shot for himself or others with their dribbling penetration, that is not what Solo does. He is best moving without the ball. The only caveat I would say where Solo could do what you are asking for in end of game situations, is if he dribbles left of a pick and pulls up from 15ft for a jump shot-he is becoming really good at that.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Solo isn't a shot creator off the dribble, that's why. End of games situations you usually want a ball handler that can create a shot for himself or others with their dribbling penetration, that is not what Solo does. He is best moving without the ball. The only caveat I would say where Solo could do what you are asking for in end of game situations, is if he dribbles left of a pick and pulls up from 15ft for a jump shot-he is becoming really good at that.

We’ve seen Solo put together more and more good drives recently. It’s coming along slowly but surely.

I’d rather he do it with his ability he’s shown to hit tough shots and rise up over guys and get him used to that even if he fails than give it to Diarra which we’ve seen enough of at this point.

 

[aburks41]

This team would be a top 5 team in the country if we had 2 things:

1) A healthy McNeeley
2) A 6'5" PG who can create his own shot, rebound, pass, and defend. AKA, another Tristen Newton. Going after a short 6'0" 150lb Mahaney in the portal was such a bad decision, especially with Diarra and Nowell both being undersized. We needed a BIG guard. Someone with some physicality on the perimeter and the coaching staff made the wrong decision.

That being said, Liam coming back changes everything. He's our best offensive player and defender. He can pass, rebound, and shoot. He can drive to the hoop and finish through contact while drawing fouls. We need him back, badly.

 

[gsmooth]

This is some really good stuff from Dan. I go back to the PC game two years ago, the Adama team, and it was the same then. I was pissed about that game because PC was mauling, clutching, grabbing us off the ball. The Big East simply doesn't see fouls against people who don't have the ball as fouls. That's the style of play. It rewards old school ISO 90s basketball. It penalizes modern offense. It makes for fairly ugly basketball.

Reminds me of the shift in hockey in some ways, you never saw interference calls back in the old days, guys were expected to fight through that stuff if they wanted to get the puck.

I was at that game in Jan 2023 in PC. Let me state this first; UConn got outplayed and I think PC earned the victory because when UConn had chances to the make the play (hitting open shots, making the correct pass to get the open shot, etc.) the did not. However, the officiating was so bad. PC was clutching and grabbing the UConn players, while UConn was getting called for ticky tack fouls-it was pathetic. That day was unusually warm at around 50 degrees and the AMP had a hockey game the night before so the floor was slick. Whenever a PC player slipped on their own, but made slight contact with a UConn defender, UConn got called for the foul.

There was one sequence I remember when Bryce Hopkins, who played very well that day, got called for an offensive foul (he could have gotten called for 1-2 more that day they way he was crashing into defenders), the AMP and Ed Cooley went nuts. Tony Chiazza made the call. The very next trip down the court when UConn had the ball Karaban barely moved on his screen, if he did at all, and Chiazza called a moving screen. At that point it was obvious that Chiazza was looking for the slightest thing he could call an infraction on UConn for and that was what he did.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Dude you are really saying Jalen Adams was better all around player than Tristen Newton because he shot better? LOL! I think what ever you are drinking tonight you need to go to sleep. Jalen while a good one on one player was not really a team player. He was a ball hog and offense wasn't smooth with the ball in his hands. You really think Jalen Adams would work in this offense? I don't see it.

The guy averaged 6.1 assists passing to a bunch of nobodies though?

 

[HCCForever]

I noticed that as well and said such in the chat during the game.

With that said, he did a lot of standing around, running some slow motion around some weak screens. Just think it's time...or should have been done a lot sooner...for Hurley and staff to draw up some special sets for his teammates to free him up for a lot more catch and shoot 3s than he's currently getting. Not every time down the floor, since you want his teammates ready to take good shots, but more often than we're seeing. He's just too good a deep and even midrange shooter to not be getting more shots.

Sounds like Solo could use a session with Rip on running constantly. I believe that Rip helped Hawkins in this mental aspect of the game. I have faith in Solo's mid-range game as well as his three-point shooting.

 

[freescooter]

I think this team is good, not great. Probably not a serious March threat. We are going through the adjustment period that virtually every defending champion does. Guys move on and new guys in new roles need to adjust and sometimes don’t quite work out. Biggest thing I see is the fact that we no longer have the totally dominant shot blocker inside. Both Sanogo and Clingon controlled the inside. Guys dribbled by their guarder only to find very large athletic people who understood how to block shots standing in the way. That made the defense infinitely better. Neither Johnson nor Reed are that type of player.

On offense, we have a 6th man running the point. I like him. He was terrific in his role. He is just ok as the full time ball handler. In some ways it takes away from his ability to hit those corner 3s. I honestly don’t know how we just miss so many bunnies.

I think Hurley is a jerk. Good coach. Great recruiter but still a jerk. It will be interesting to see if he is another Coach K who won back to back, then won 3 more titles and 7 more Final Fours or more like Billy Donovan who also went back to back but only made 1 more Final Four and zero additional titles. Side notes he has one earlier final four run. His only post title Final Four he lost in 2014 to UConn. He was considered the next big thing in 2007. He was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015.

 

[superjohn]

is if he dribbles left of a pick and pulls up from 15ft for a jump shot-he is becoming really good at that.

That's the play I always want him to be making, he's pretty much automatic with it.

If Solo got the ball more we're looking at someone who is pushing 20 ppg. As is when McNeeley comes back we have three guys who are 15 ppg guys.

 

[Waquoit]

This team would be a top 5 team in the country if we had 2 things:

1) A healthy McNeeley
2) A 6'5" PG who can create his own shot, rebound, pass, and defend. AKA, another Tristen Newton.

Wouldn't most top 20 teams be top 5 if they added 2 All-American caliber players to their roster?

 

[RuffRuff]

not sure if the refs are loving it but fans the sport are.

 

[superjohn]

I think this team is good, not great. Probably not a serious March threat. We are going through the adjustment period that virtually every defending champion does. Guys move on and new guys in new roles need to adjust and sometimes don’t quite work out. Biggest thing I see is the fact that we no longer have the totally dominant shot blocker inside. Both Sanogo and Clingon controlled the inside. Guys dribbled by their guarder only to find very large athletic people who understood how to block shots standing in the way. That made the defense infinitely better. Neither Johnson nor Reed are that type of player.

On offense, we have a 6th man running the point. I like him. He was terrific in his role. He is just ok as the full time ball handler. In some ways it takes away from his ability to hit those corner 3s. I honestly don’t know how we just miss so many bunnies.

I think Hurley is a jerk. Good coach. Great recruiter but still a jerk. It will be interesting to see if he is another Coach K who won back to back, then won 3 more titles and 7 more Final Fours or more like Billy Donovan who also went back to back but only made 1 more Final Four and zero additional titles. Side notes he has one earlier final four run. His only post title Final Four he lost in 2014 to UConn. He was considered the next big thing in 2007. He was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015.

"Billy Donovan was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015."

His last four seasons in college he went to three elite 8's and a final 4 in his last season. Four final 4's, two national championships.

Yep, just a good coach. What???

 

[ctbro1999]

"Billy Donocan was just a good coach when he left for the NBA in 2015."

His last four seasons in college he went to three elite 8's and a final 4 in his last season. Four final 4's, two national championships.

Yep, just a good coach. What???

There are some truly horrid takes being tossed around in the Boneyard today.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Dude you are really saying Jalen Adams was better all around player than Tristen Newton because he shot better? LOL! I think what ever you are drinking tonight you need to go to sleep. Jalen while a good one on one player was not really a team player. He was a ball hog and offense wasn't smooth with the ball in his hands. You really think Jalen Adams would work in this offense? I don't see it.

Also, my post wasn’t meant to say that Jalen Adams is better than him. I don’t care to go back and forth about that.

It’s moreso meant to show just how bad Newton shot from the field despite having the most ideal circumstances possible for a PG.

 

[controlfade]

Steven A loves him

 

[Waquoit]

It’s moreso meant to show just how bad Newton shot from the field despite having the most ideal circumstances possible for a PG.

Oh, in that case it's still a fail.

 

[Excalibur]

Also, my post wasn’t meant to say that Jalen Adams is better than him. I don’t care to go back and forth about that.

It’s moreso meant to show just how bad Newton shot from the field despite having the most ideal circumstances possible for a PG.

Part of that was Newton was the bail out guy at the end of the shot clock, and part of that was just his streakiness as a shooter.

Newton was great, but it's a testament to how good the roster was that he wasn't the best player (or even the second best player) on either championship team. (Hawkins/Sanogo in 2023, Clingan/Spencer in 2024)

 

[mauconnfan]

Steven A loves him

It’s sn asinine thing to say and a bad look. Creighton won’t foul them the next game unless they try to. Stupid and arrogant.

 

[Tyler2Rings]

As usual Vecenie nails it. I'm glad to be a fan during the Dan Hurley experience, warts and all

 

[AllHusky]

This team would be a top 5 team in the country if we had 2 things:

1) A healthy McNeeley
2) A 6'5" PG who can create his own shot, rebound, pass, and defend. AKA, another Tristen Newton. Going after a short 6'0" 150lb Mahaney in the portal was such a bad decision, especially with Diarra and Nowell both being undersized. We needed a BIG guard. Someone with some physicality on the perimeter and the coaching staff made the wrong decision.

That being said, Liam coming back changes everything. He's our best offensive player and defender. He can pass, rebound, and shoot. He can drive to the hoop and finish through contact while drawing fouls. We need him back, badly.

Is there an opportunity for Liam, Alex and Jaylin to play as 2-4? Gives you the bigger guard at the 2. Still relying on Hass as the 1 just about 100% of the time. Does Solo even have a chance of being effective at the 1?

 

[Deleted at users request]

Part of that was Newton was the bail out guy at the end of the shot clock, and part of that was just his streakiness as a shooter.

Newton was great, but it's a testament to how good the roster was that he wasn't the best player (or even the second best player) on either championship team. (Hawkins/Sanogo in 2023, Clingan/Spencer in 2024)

It’s a cop out when the other guy was constantly going 1 on 5. You don’t take that many end of shot clock shots. He was just a very inefficient scorer.

In the 5 games Clingan was out he was 14/56 from the field. Good for 25% from the field on over 10 shots a game.

You can find the game logs here if you want to look for yourself.

Tristen Newton 2023-24 Game Log | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

2023-24 Game Log for Tristen Newton

www.sports-reference.com

I’m hopeful we can find/develop a much better PG in the future that can take advantage of the easy opportunities this offense can provide them.

Hopefully that PG is Nowell and we don’t kick the can down the round on yet another HS PG recruit for a transfer.

 

[Palatine]

Stewart is on the edge of making a jump. Terrific against Dixon at Nova. Horrible at home versus Telfort. But he is bringing the energy and you can see him figuring out his role on offense. He wants it. And he is working his tail off. Looking for a breakout game.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Always wonder how accurate this is with 23 year old kids in amazing physical condition playing 2 games a week.

Anyone who thinks college kids should play a full game and expect them to compete at a high level for the whole game is either trolling or has no idea what they are talking about. NBA teams manage minutes like pitch counts, and even high school coaches track playing time to maintain their top players. Even back in the day, players like El-Amin would take plays off to rest up. NBA players did this all the time before coaches and trainers really started paying attention to minutes played.

On top of deteriorating performance from overplaying the talent, fatigue is cumulative, and bad steps or other mistake are more likely when a player is tired than when they are fresh. Or we could do like Auriemma and play one of the greatest players of the last decade in the last minute of a 20+ point blowout, and see where that gets us.

 

[boog204]

Stewart is on the edge of making a jump. Terrific against Dixon at Nova. Horrible at home versus Telfort. But he is bringing the energy and you can see him figuring out his role on offense. He wants it. And he is working his tail off. Looking for a breakout game.

Man, Jaylin is like the most beloved player on this board. Last four games.... 14, 0, 14, 4. Not sure how you all think he's "figuring out his role" when he is more or less invisible every other game. He's got tons of talent for sure. But nothing has shown me he's figured out really anything.

Also, it would help if he could guard someone. He's just as bad as Solo and yes, he was great against Dixon, a guy Stew clearly had an athletic advantage on. But it's not a surprise that opposing teams 2/3's tend to have career games against us. Solo and Stew are the defenders.

 

[NotADime89]

It’s a cop out when the other guy was constantly going 1 on 5. You don’t take that many end of shot clock shots. He was just a very inefficient scorer.

In the 5 games Clingan was out he was 14/56 from the field. Good for 25% from the field on over 10 shots a game.

You can find the game logs here if you want to look for yourself.

Tristen Newton 2023-24 Game Log | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

2023-24 Game Log for Tristen Newton

www.sports-reference.com

I’m hopeful we can find/develop a much better PG in the future that can take advantage of the easy opportunities this offense can provide them.

Hopefully that PG is Nowell and we don’t kick the can down the round on yet another HS PG recruit for a transfer.

 

[Palatine]

Nowell is being given a shot. Since Nova he has gotten meaningful minutes in the first half of games. He doesn’t score and has been taken advantage of on defense. He needs to start showing something with the minutes he is being gifted.