Building Players the Good the Bad and the Ughly

[hoophuskee]

Nothing wrong with playing your "All American" starters as long as they are playing like All Americans.........sometimes they don't play up to standards and even when they do, All Americans need a break too.......look at the fourth quarter in the recent South Carolina game. If the starters had been given more of a breather perhaps, they wouldn't have been run off the court.......

Who says in the past years that the 1st team A/a's didn't have a break? How could they have won if they didn't have a break?

So we're going to evaluate Geno now on this tournament and disregard everything else over that 20+ years?

 

[Carnac]

Things feel a little different this year. Why?

Well, we don`t lose much in the regular season. And we are certainly not used to losing early in the season. On top of that there is way, way, way too much time between the South Carolina game and our next game.

The South Carolina loss is the first time UConn has lost a game before the first of the year since 11/17/2014, an overtime loss to Stanford.

From the beginning of the 2015-2016 season to date, UConn has a grand total of 7 regular season losses. SC twice, Baylor twice, Arkansas, Oregon, Louisville.

The game following a loss has generally been very one-sided, 20 point plus margins of victory in 6 of the games and a 10 point margin in the other. More significantly, I think, that second game generally occurred fairly soon after the loss. 2 days later twice, 3 days later three times, 4 days later once, 6 days later once.

We are now at 8 days and counting since the South Carolina loss. It will be 11 days when UConn finally takes the floor against Seton Hall.

Way too much time for us UConn fans to perseverate, I think. Cruel and unusual punishment.

On top of all that, we are, for lack of a better word, a bit disoriented by what we have seen. We expected a very deep team and that has not yet materialized, for whatever reason. Some new and returning players also have us scratching our heads. We wonder when Aubrey will finally be back on the floor, and whether she will provide some answers. We wonder about some other injuries, or maybe just aches and pains, mentioned almost in passing, and whether they are affecting performance to any significant degree. We may need to remind ourselves that the third game in three days might not be the best measuring rod. So, lots to perseverate about. And the season is only about one-tenth of the way through.

UConn is now coming up on a stretch of four games in eight days, thank God. Quality opponents, but all games that UConn should win. And, it will give us 160 new minutes of basketball to dissect. Whatever our perspectives today, they will be different by December 11. I am not savvy enough to predict exactly how but I`m pretty sure it will be for the better.

Cruel and unusual punishment indeed. An idle mind is the devil's workshop. Too much time to wallow in our woe. Personally, I like being tested early. I want to know early on what we've got. If you're going to play a top 10 team early in the season, would it would best serve you to play several "warm-up" games in close proximity at the beginning of the season? Teams make up their own preseason schedules. Sometimes you can't always get the games on the dates you want against the teams you want to play. Keep in mind that other teams play some weaker programs that Geno will not.

We were all exposed to the "mega-hype" of this year's team over the summer. We had an abundance of height, the depth of the bench was now incomparable. Then when we played the Fort Hays State exhibition game and the hype didn't manifest itself, we expressed our displeasure. After 4 games, the consensus of the BY is the 2021-2022 edition of the UConn WBB has not lived up to its expectations. Were our expectations too lofty or unreasonable? Or has this team simply failed to jell yet? The areas where the team needs to improve on have been identified. The lack of consistency of some players has also been noted.

Geno has already been called out for not giving some of his reserves more time, compared with players on other elite teams. Are we now comparing Geno's style of coaching with his contemporaries after only 4 games? UConn has 5 more games [schedule] before the 9 day (12/20-12/28) holiday break. During the 17 day period between December 11 to December 29, UConn only plays one game, Louisville on the 19th.

Last day of fall semester classes at UConn is Fri Dec 10. Final examinations begin Mon Dec. 13 and end on Sunday Dec 19. The women's team traditionally takes this time off for study and final exams. League play resumes with a home game against Marquette on Dec. 29.
What can we expect to see in the next two games against Seton Hall (3-2) Friday and (24 ) Notre Dame (6-1) on Sunday? ND is coming off of two wins over Georgia and Oregon St.

It was reported that some UConn players were playing with minor injuries. Are they healed now? What kind of defensive effort will we see Friday? Can UConn cut down on their turnovers, and take better shots? Will they (as a team) play with more of a sense of urgency? That's what I'll be looking for.

 

[Stymie]

I would like to point out that what I spoke of is fact, right? And getting to Final Fours means nothing to you?

And I'm referring to what Geno has done. If I'm referring to what Geno has done. can you name the team that he coached that ever only played a starting 5? So when I say Geno has own using his current method why do you need to exaggerate and state I meant starting 5? You couldn't figure out I mean more than 5 just not a full blown bench?

If you’re hanging your hat on the “Final Four”, may we dial success back?
How about considering the “Elite Eight” sufficient?
“Sweet Sixteen”?
Will, with parity, a successful (UCONN) season may be relegated to “winning” a Big East title?
An over .500% season?
You can gaze way in the past and point to 11 National Championships.
Or you may focus on the more recent past 0-4 in The Final bracket.
Me, I’m focused on the here and now, and still stinging from the performance in their last game.
And by the way- “on the backs” of the starting 5 does not mean utilizing those players exclusively, but generally playing them a huge percentage of the time.
(at the expense of developing additional contributors in roll-over games).

 

[Carnac]

I don't think it's Geno's fault. It's early in the season. Azzi has a foot injury. You might find interesting this UCTV interview posted today.



In the video Greg Mengel, one of the UConn practice players for the women's team, says Azzi still looks like a freshman on the court and is half a step slow. But that she has "all the talent in the world and she just needs to have the confidence in herself." In other words, she'll be fine. She's already getting a lot of minutes and will get more. Geno has big plans for her.

A tale of two halves. It was noted that UConn turned the ball over several times back to back to back in the 3rd quarter in which they outscored UConn by 6. You can't turn the ball over against elite teams. They will make you pay and convert those turn overs (extra possessions) into points.

Aliyah Boston got a lot of cheap/easy baskets in the paint. If you're going to beat SC, YOU MUST neutralize her.
She had 22 points and 15 rebounds (7 offensive). When she puts up those kinds of numbers, they win. Again, she MUST be neutralized. You can't let her run roughshod over your team and do or get whatever she wants to. She'll kill you every time. UConn didn't do that. UConn also could not match her production in the paint.

I asked a question in another thread, I'll ask it again. SC didn't stop playing in the 2nd half, why did we? We played them well enough to lead by 3 at the half, why didn't we play with the same intensity and urgency in the 2nd half? They certainly weren't afraid or intimidated by us. Were we by them? What happened?

 

[Charliebball]

Who says in the past years that the 1st team A/a's didn't have a break? How could they have won if they didn't have a break?

So we're going to evaluate Geno now on this tournament and disregard everything else over that 20+ years?

This is not a new issue.......in my opinion UConn hasn't had an effective bench in a number of years and when the rubber hits the road during the big games Geno has not had dependable subs that can keep the game even while the starters take a breather......the question is whether this is due to the quality of the bench players or the fact that they have the ability but have not been given the opportunity to prove they can handle the responsibility........

 

[Cuango]

It was not after four games. It includes the past four seasons. When was the last time UConn played well against a top five team? If they have let me know when. The difference between UConn and other schools is, per what I have read on the BY, other schools play to win, UConn plays to win NC. Not my thinking. It's what I read on the BY. It must be right. Other teams want to win NC, at UConn it is expected.

Was I dreaming when UConn beat SC and Baylor last year?

 

[Inthepaint]

Maybe I've missed this in somebody else's posts. If so, I apologize.
Yes we have all kinds of talent. Yes, some new ones and some veterans have looked a bit confused and the team has looked out of synch.
BB is a team sport, even if there are people who stand out, score a lot of points and cruise through games from the opening tip off.
The TEAMS that are consistent, and put together seamless performances game in and game out, are the ones that find a way to combine the different talents and learn how to play off each other's strengths.
Geno and his staff have to put together all of these pieces of the puzzle and fit them into cohesive units that can defend on the perimeter, keep people away from the lane, control the glass, pressure the ball on defense. THEN, transition quickly get the ball down the court, make quick passes, knowing where all 5 pieces will be and get the best shot whether from beyond the arc or in the paint.
And , because there are so many talented, highly motivated pieces of the puzzle (who also happen to be human beings with all the complexities of their different personalities), in some ways it's harder than if there were just 6 or 7 women to consider.
This latest version of HUSKY WCBB has to jell and find the combinations both starting and rotating in off the bench, that will enable them to "put the pedal to the metal" in the fashion we seem to crave, and just plain outplay and outclass the competition.
I got disgusted a few times already because my expectations are so high.
Have a game on Friday and another one on Sunday.
Think I'll just sit back, chill out and see what happens.

 

[Bama fan]

@Tonyc , I like your spelling of ugly. " Ugh-ly" seems to fit the topic well. Not sure if you meant it , but it worked.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Yes, but when was his last one? It's time to get up to date. A supposedly once in a lifetime talent like Fudd is having trouble getting off the bench. Do you think that would be happening if she was elsewhere? It's not the coach so much as it is the system is out of date. When was the last time UConn's half-court offense worked well against another top five team?

When was his last one? Really? Tara went three decades between championships. Kim went 7 years between championships. Even Pat Summitt went 9 years between championships. Perhaps we should cut Geno and UConn and little slack.

 

[Stymie]

When was his last one? Really? Tara went three decades between championships. Kim went 7 years between championships. Even Pat Summitt went 9 years between championships. Perhaps we should cut Geno and UConn and little slack.

Classic deflection.

 

[TCC Kid]

Charlie I do know of coaches where it does happen. Tara and Dawn I dont know about but yes there are other coaches where it does happen. As far as their good results they do get good results however Geno has won more NC's and has more records then both of them combined

As my Nanny said as I ran away from her (age 12), you must learn to crawl before you can walk. Integrating the top talented Freshmen and Sophs into the lineup isn't caving in to Fans or parents. It seem a tried and true method of walking the new-er kids into becoming "useful" should that time ever arise. I doubt any one is suggesting throwing totally unprepared kids into this coming ND game (although I think their coach suggested that to Geno)

 

[Longtime fan]

Well I would like to see more players get playtime too however some of them are not ready for prime time. In big games we saw that. In some of the games played already we saw the drop in execution and play when non starters got in the game. True they need time to acclimate themselves to the college game but dont expect 30 pt blow outs when they get time and dont expect in big games early in the season that they will respond like an upperclassman. Geno knows that and thats why in the SC game they didnt see alot of time. I would think that in some of the games coming up we will see more players play. Based on Geno's records with players making it big, with their improvement, with their growth from freshman to seniors, with his teams records and accomplishments I think he knows what he's doing and Im not saying some of these posts are insinuating he doesnt know what he's doing however it might be better to ask yourself why is he doing what he's doing because so far its working and Geno has sustained his winning ways for many many years.

For those of you who served in the military know what boot camp is like. They beat you down and build you back up to make you a better solider. You become part of the military team. Everybody is on the same page and you know what is expected of you. Well at UConn the beginning of the season is much like boot camp. The discipline is instilled into his players. There are no secrets, you know what is expected of you and what you need to do to win. Geno's running the show not the players and not their parents. On some other teams the best players run the show. Sometimes parents of players put in their two cents and try to run the show and thats totally wrong. I know because Ive seen it and Ive heard about it. Yeah I cringe when I hear what he says about players having a poor game but you know what? He gets their attention and they respond. Sometimes they gotta grow up and sometimes they need to hear it to get stronger. When they respond positively he tells them and makes them feel special. The recognition he gives them is worth more when he builds them up because of what they went through to get there. Listen to the old players on the early teams and what they say about Geno. They love him because of what theyve become. He knocks them down and builds them up to be something most of them never thought they could become. Becoming successful take courage, building of self esteem, being able to take a punch and bouncing back. Thats what makes you great. Its not handing you a reward for trying. You've got to be strong and Geno makes you strong so you can handle the tuffest situations. Thats why winners win and losers lose.

This team has alot of talent and has alot more talent coming in over the next couple of seasons. We gonna be better because of Genos teachings. I cant wait for March but I will enjoy the development of this teams over the next few months as I see us compete for another National Championship.

I think we all know that. If you have followed UCONN for a long while, you understand Geno's approach. We just want something
more ( or different in this case) to entertain us. We want to see what would happen if, for example, Piath Gabriel played 30 minutes in 10 Big East games in a row. It would be a diversion. It would be more attention-getting than watching the " starting 7 ( or 9) build a 40 point lead against Marquette mid way in the third period. But it is not going to happen. She will continue to get garbage minutes, and only if she earns them in practice. Only if there occurs a "metamorphosis" in a summer league ( or somewhere ), will there be a meaningful adjustment. to her court time. Believe me, Coach wants this to happen as much as we do. That is why he drafted her. We know what we are going to see. And it is always great. You can predict the starting five...and the substitution pattern right now ( with possible exception of a healthy Griffin ). We have already seen it.

 

[TCC Kid]

Nothing wrong with playing your "All American" starters as long as they are playing like All Americans.........sometimes they don't play up to standards and even when they do, All Americans need a break too.......look at the fourth quarter in the recent South Carolina game. If the starters had been given more of a breather perhaps, they wouldn't have been run off the court.......

Even All-American players are stopped by the opposition, by early season conditioning. Geno is the measuring stick for Women's basketball and for all arguments against playing the bench when it has any real impact on the outcome of the game. The competition in the past 7 or 10 years zoomed ahead of where they were in 2010. If Uconn is beaten it isn't always something Geno did or didn't do. Sometimes the competition has gotten that good.

 

[Charliebball]

As my Nanny said as I ran away from her (age 12), you must learn to crawl before you can walk. Integrating the top talented Freshmen and Sophs into the lineup isn't caving in to Fans or parents. It seem a tried and true method of walking the new-er kids into becoming "useful" should that time ever arise. I doubt any one is suggesting throwing totally unprepared kids into this coming ND game (although I think their coach suggest that to Geno)

I'm not talking about Piath Gabriel getting 30 minutes as a fun exercise..........I'm talking about specific bench players that Geno has already identified as having real talent getting more than three-minute guest appearances during the course of a game so that they can become accustomed to the UConn system under real game competitive pressures.... hardly a ground breaking phenomenon in WBB today......South Carolina has eleven players averaging more than ten minutes per game so far this season...........UConn has seven.........

 

[donalddoowop]

Was I dreaming when UConn beat SC and Baylor last year?

They won but not the way BYers expect them to win. They played well enough to win but that is not usually good enough for posters on this board. Good enough for me but not for many others. Just read the comments, even before the team has time to jell.

 

[donalddoowop]

When was his last one? Really? Tara went three decades between championships. Kim went 7 years between championships. Even Pat Summitt went 9 years between championships. Perhaps we should cut Geno and UConn and little slack.

They both have won NC more recently than UConn. I am talking present. Too many BYers are constantly bringing up the past. Geno talks about how stubborn this team is. Handle that. The players attitudes today are a lot different than just five years ago. How long will Geno's reputation hold up before recruits stop wanting to come to UConn if he can't show he can still win it all with so many top-notch recruits? Up until a few years ago, UConn was achieving things other schools were not achieving. Well, now other schools are achieving those things and that gives recruits other options. What UConn has achieved in the past is remarkable and maybe will never be matched. However, is that enough to continue winning NC, which is UConn's primary goal? We will see.

 

[Carnac]

I think we all know that. If you have followed UCONN for a long while, you understand Geno's approach. We just want something
more ( or different in this case) to entertain us. We want to see what would happen if, for example, Piath Gabriel played 30 minutes in 10 Big East games in a row. It would be a diversion. It would be more attention-getting than watching the " starting 7 ( or 9) build a 40 point lead against Marquette mid way in the third period. But it is not going to happen. She will continue to get garbage minutes, and only if she earns them in practice. Only if there occurs a "metamorphosis" in a summer league ( or somewhere ), will there be a meaningful adjustment. to her court time. Believe me, Coach wants this to happen as much as we do. That is why he drafted her. We know what we are going to see. And it is always great. You can predict the starting five...and the substitution pattern right now ( with possible exception of a healthy Griffin ). We have already seen it.

Agree with your premise Longtime Fan. First things first. First, Let's get our house in order by finding 7 players that can/will play at the level Geno (and us) wants and expects them to. I'm not one who is concerned about the reserves right now. They will get minutes in time as they earn and deserve them.

Right now, Geno will be trying to win the game first!! Identify 5 -6 or 7 players that prove THEY can/will play as a cohesive unit, and give his team the best chance to win that particular game. Then, if the score and conditions permit, he can put the reserves in the game when it will give them the best chance to show what they can do, and give them the best chance to be successful. That may not happen until the 2nd half.

For those that want to see more of the reserves in the game, let's play close attention to what they do when/if they are inserted into the game. Do they play within the fabric of the offense and defense. Do they contribute (make plays) and produce, or are they just out there, not making any contributions (invisible)? Remember the old adage: "It's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil."

 

[GoingPostal]

It was not after four games. It includes the past four seasons. When was the last time UConn played well against a top five team? If they have let me know when. The difference between UConn and other schools is, per what I have read on the BY, other schools play to win, UConn plays to win NC. Not my thinking. It's what I read on the BY. It must be right. Other teams want to win NC, at UConn it is expected.

How about last year against then #1 South Carolina?

 

[GoingPostal]

No. Their offense struggled against SC. In a way what you say is good because it shows expectations are not as high as in past years. Compare last season's win to the wins UConn had when SC had Wilson. Those games were well played and not close. UConn does not beat good teams like that anymore and it is time some posters realize that. Today if UConn wins by less than double figures some say they played a bad game. I don't think that is fair to the team or the coaches.

They had Stewie, Tuck, and !Moriah

 

[TCC Kid]

I'm not talking about Piath Gabriel getting 30 minutes as a fun exercise..........I'm talking about specific bench players that Geno ophas already identified as having real talent getting more than three-minute guest appearances during the course of a game so that they can become accustomed to the UConn system under real game competitive pressures.... hardly a ground breaking phenomenon in WBB today......South Carolina has eleven players averaging more than ten minutes per game so far this season...........UConn has seven.........

From which position of the Choir did you eject me? In essence I was agreeing with your belief --that game time is the, not necessarily prime time, is the time to HONE Practice skills. My personal belief, can you believe I coached for about 8 years and never won an NC in WCBB(?, very little is learned if players don't ever get into real, not cupcake, games.. The one part of the equation Uconn fans tend to forget 1. Geno has been coaching near 40 years and opposing coaches by now know his game really well. 2. WCBB has evolved since 2010, amazingly, bigger, more talented , faster, more skilled kids are playing the game 24/7/365. The top of the hill ain't what it once was.. One kid or 2 like Paige or Azzi isn't all it takes to win it all. Unlike DT, Swin, Shea, Svet, Maya, Stewie--(even Stewie had Dolson and Stokes, KML.

 

[huskyd]

 

[JonathanXIV]

Classic deflection.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

[Carnac]

From which position of the Choir did you eject me? In essence I was agreeing with your belief --that game time is the, not necessarily prime time, is the time to HONE Practice skills. My personal belief, can you believe I coached for about 8 years and never won an NC in WCBB(?, very little is learned if players don't ever get into real, not cupcake, games.. The one part of the equation Uconn fans tend to forget 1. Geno has been coaching near 40 years and opposing coaches by now know his game really well. 2. WCBB has evolved since 2010, amazingly, bigger, more talented , faster, more skilled kids are playing the game 24/7/365. The top of the hill ain't what it once was.. One kid or 2 like Paige or Azzi isn't all it takes to win it all. Unlike DT, Swin, Shea, Svet, Maya, Stewie--(even Stewie had Dolson and Stokes, KML.

Agreed. Our reserves MUST prove that they can/will perform and produce against the cupcake teams BEFORE they get a shot at the BIG BOYS. You crawl BEFORE you walk. Show me that you can play well and dominate lessor competition BEFORE you ask me to give you playing time against the elite teams. The reserve players will decide when they are ready to step up and go play in the DEEP END of the pool, not Geno.

 

[TCC Kid]

Agree with your premise Longtime Fan. First things first. First, Let's get our house in order by finding 7 players that can/will play at the level Geno (and us) wants and expects them to. I'm not one who is concerned about the reserves right now. They will get

Cruel and unusual punishment indeed. An idle mind is the devil's workshop. Too much time to wallow in our woe. Personally, I like being tested early. I want to know early on what we've got. If you're going to play a top 10 team early in the season, would it would best serve you to play several "warm-up" games in close proximity at the beginning of the season? Teams make up their own preseason schedules. Sometimes you can't always get the games on the dates you want against the teams you want to play. Keep in mind that other teams play some weaker programs that Geno will not.

We were all exposed to the "mega-hype" of this year's team over the summer. We had an abundance of height, the depth of the bench was now incomparable. Then when we played the Fort Hays State exhibition game and the hype didn't manifest itself, we expressed our displeasure. After 4 games, the consensus of the BY is the 2021-2022 edition of the UConn WBB has not lived up to its expectations. Were our expectations too lofty or unreasonable? Or has this team simply failed to jell yet? The areas where the team needs to improve on have been identified. The lack of consistency of some players has also been noted.

Geno has already been called out for not giving some of his reserves more time, compared with players on other elite teams. Are we now comparing Geno's style of coaching with his contemporaries after only 4 games? UConn has 5 more games [schedule] before the 9 day (12/20-12/28) holiday break. During the 17 day period between December 11 to December 29, UConn only plays one game, Louisville on the 19th.

Last day of fall semester classes at UConn is Fri Dec 10. Final examinations begin Mon Dec. 13 and end on Sunday Dec 19. The women's team traditionally takes this time off for study and final exams. League play resumes with a home game against Marquette on Dec. 29.
What can we expect to see in the next two games against Seton Hall (3-2) Friday and (24 ) Notre Dame (6-1) on Sunday? ND is coming off of two wins over Georgia and Oregon St.

It was reported that some UConn players were playing with minor injuries. Are they healed now? What kind of defensive effort will we see Friday? Can UConn cut down on their turnovers, and take better shots? Will they (as a team) play with more of a sense of urgency? That's what I'll be looking for.

Much of what you say is right, I could agree.
No one in their right mind, on this site, would "Call OUT" Geno! This is the team I come here to cheer on. It been the team of many here BEFORE Geno. More than a few REAL Uconn fans departed the fandom of UConn men for the women's team. We know what Geno has done, few have that burned into their LOVING memories. We who support this team have been thankful for these many DECADES of great fun.
The Fans, and from your words are one, of Vince Lombardi second guessed him. Questioned his and Woodens subbing practices. That doesn't make us RIGHT or WRONG--just fans. Cut me, I don't bleed red--it's blue and white.
If looking at the top coaches that have won NC's in the past 15 years (WCBB wasn't as tough before that) they tend to have success putting some (possibly all) of their reserves in games long long before Geno would have done that. Are they right? Theyve had success. Is Geno wrong? Geno's had successes and then some.
No one is throwing Geno anywhere soon. But his feet are not golden he makes errors in judgement, as we all do. So, Carnac--allow us 4 or 5 decade fans to seek answers to questions without answers.

 

[TCC Kid]

Agreed. Our reserves MUST prove that they can/will perform and produce against the cupcake teams BEFORE they get a shot at the BIG BOYS. You crawl BEFORE you walk. Show me that you can play well and dominate lessor competition BEFORE you ask me to give you playing time against the elite teams. The reserve players will decide when they are ready to step up and go play in the DEEP END of the pool, not Geno.

Actually, factually, I never crawled, not once. Family lore. Bad adage, it is only sometimes true. It doesn't, like coaching, work for everyone.