Brimah

[intlzncster]

It hurt Drummond's stock as well in my opinion.

Not so sure, I think it was more his relative 'lack of production' at UCONN. He came in as one of the top 2 prospects, so people expected 20/10/4 without much trouble.

 

[Tenspro2002]

@Gurleyman I agree that is a great point - he does the dirty things that make the team better. But he also goes thru stretches where he is lost and needs a map. And these kill the team. People realize Brimah's intangibles, but his lack of awareness sometimes cripples this team.

That's the thing. When someone doesn't make a play because of a physical limitation, it's disappointing, but you can live with it. When Brimah fails to anticipate a pass and lets a potential dunk slip through his hands, or mistimes a jump and lets an opponent get an easy putback, or goaltends a ball that had no chance of going in, those aren't just a loss of points, they're utterly deflating.

The mental errors kill a team's morale a lot more than the physical ones.

 

[intlzncster]

That's the thing. When someone doesn't make a play because of a physical limitation, it's disappointing, but you can live with it. When Brimah fails to anticipate a pass and lets a potential dunk slip through his hands, or mistimes a jump and lets an opponent get an easy putback, or goaltends a ball that had no chance of going in, those aren't just a loss of points, they're utterly deflating.

The mental errors kill a team's morale a lot more than the physical ones.

He's got hockey sticks for hands. What are you gonna do? Some Jerry Rice stickum maybe.

 

[BUConn10]

Not so sure, I think it was more his relative 'lack of production' at UCONN. He came in as one of the top 2 prospects, so people expected 20/10/4 without much trouble.

Embiid's production was quite literally the same, and had a major back injury going into draft. We have had this debate a few times on the Yard so I'm not gonna get it going again, let's just be glad Drummond is literally making the NBA's bigs, and more importantly the GMs who passed on him for bs reason, his figurative and literal "bit**".

 

[Stainmaster]

Embiid's production was quite literally the same, and had a major back injury going into draft. We have had this debate a few times on the Yard so I'm not gonna get it going again, let's just be glad Drummond is literally making the NBA's bigs, and more importantly the GMs who passed on him for bs reason, his figurative and literal "bit**".

Embiid may have had identical numbers, but his production relative to expectations was greater. Who thought that he was going to put those numbers up his freshman year?

 

[David 76]

I don't mean to imply that everyone possible future NBA player gets the same treatment that Brimah gets here. Quite the opposite (which I did not express very well): expectations for his current performance are much higher than where he is. Most of the other future-NBAers are performing fairly well (though I suspect DHam's status will plummet if he doesn't start to take over some games).

He was not/is not one of our NBA prospects. He is a total surprise. After his freshman year, some of us began to project to much into his development. That is what makes the attacks hard to understand. It would be like people getting all over Lubin.

 

[3rdbass]

This is a funny thread. I'm one of AB's biggest critics and I thought he actually had a decent game. I mean he did post down low and even scored once. He held his position pretty well even though he didn't get many rebounds. He played great D. He is what he is. These guys thinking he is going to dominate are just setting their selves up for a letdown. I personally would rather see SE getting more minutes but this was decent game for AB and definitely not one to call him out on.

 

[David 76]

That's the thing. When someone doesn't make a play because of a physical limitation, it's disappointing, but you can live with it. When Brimah fails to anticipate a pass and lets a potential dunk slip through his hands, or mistimes a jump and lets an opponent get an easy putback, or goaltends a ball that had no chance of going in, those aren't just a loss of points, they're utterly deflating.

The mental errors kill a team's morale a lot more than the physical ones.

I think AB is physically limited by his lack of instinct. It is definitely not lack of effort.

 

[Chief00]

Ridiculous. AB is one of the better free throw shooters on the team this year. Whatever technique he is using keep it up

Agree the coaches time would be better spent working with Purvis, who is under 50% from the line. Nevertheless, that's why I pointed it out - his mechanics have changed - and you usually don't mess with FT shooting unless you need to. So kind of strange.

 

[BUConn10]

Embiid may have had identical numbers, but his production relative to expectations was greater. Who thought that he was going to put those numbers up his freshman year?

I don't see what expectations have to do with it, both were highly recruited players at big programs. You either perform or you don't.

 

[baldinghusky]

He was not/is not one of our NBA prospects. He is a total surprise. After his freshman year, some of us began to project to much into his development. That is what makes the attacks hard to understand. It would be like people getting all over Lubin.

I don't follow recruiting too closely, so perhaps I'm misjudging what people thought he was. It's hard to think anyone with his size and quickness isn't a pro prospect, but then, I'm not very knowledgeable about the NBA.

 

[BUConn10]

I don't follow recruiting too closely, so perhaps I'm misjudging what people thought he was. It's hard to think anyone with his size and quickness isn't a pro prospect, but then, I'm not very knowledgeable about the NBA.

He's not. Let's please end this discussion.

 

[Matrim55]

Embiid's production was quite literally the same...

No, it really wasn't.

Embiid had a much higher FG%, FT%, rebound rate, assist rate and free throw rate. And he was the centerpiece of a team that, when he was available, was arguably the best in the nation. Drummond was the centerpiece of a team that played worse when he was out there.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/joel-embiid-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andre-drummond-1.html

Stats aren't everything, but using PPG & RPG as the measure is not a great way to make the argument.

 

[champs99and04]

Embiid's production was quite literally the same, and had a major back injury going into draft. We have had this debate a few times on the Yard so I'm not gonna get it going again, let's just be glad Drummond is literally making the NBA's bigs, and more importantly the GMs who passed on him for bs reason, his figurative and literal "bit**".

I don't really see how the production is the same. Even if you ignore Embiid's per 40 stats, which were superior, he was a significantly better passer, a much better defender, and a far more polished scorer. He shot 63% from the floor and 69% from the line, compared to Drummond's 54% from the field and 30% from the line. Embiid also had a PER over 28 while Drummond was at about 22.

Edit: I guess I should have read @Matrim55 's post first.

 

[mauconnfan]

I don't see what expectations have to do with it, both were highly recruited players at big programs. You either perform or you don't.

To actually have AB and Embiid in the same sentence is beyond laughable. Seriously did you watch these 2 guys play?

 

[champs99and04]

To actually have AB and Embiid in the same sentence is beyond laughable. Seriously did you watch these 2 guys play?

He's talking about Drummond, not AB.

 

[mauconnfan]

He's talking about Drummond, not AB.

My bad - hammered!

 

[BUConn10]

No, it really wasn't.

Embiid had a much higher FG%, FT%, rebound rate, assist rate and free throw rate. And he was the centerpiece of a team that, when he was available, was arguably the best in the nation. Drummond was the centerpiece of a team that played worse when he was out there.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/joel-embiid-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andre-drummond-1.html

Stats aren't everything, but using PPG & RPG as the measure is not a great way to make the argument.

Fair point sir. But I still feel their was a significantly different "air" around each player's draft profile. Drummond was a rare physical specimen and Embiid was injured throughout draft workouts, with a back injury which is career ending for bigs. Yet he was still skyrocketing above guys like Wiggins and Parker predraft talks while Drummond was plummeting.

 

[Matrim55]

Fair point sir. But I still feel their was a significantly different "air" around each player's draft profile. Drummond was a rare physical specimen and Embiid was injured throughout draft workouts, with a back injury which is career ending for bigs. Yet he was still skyrocketing above guys like Wiggins and Parker predraft talks while Drummond was plummeting.

Honestly, I think that was justified. Embiid was amazing in college - just as good as Towns was last year, at least. Drummond, meanwhile, was disappointing.

I'll grant you that folks should have realized, in the aftermath of that Mavericks NBA title, just how important and devastating a true rim-runner (Tyson Chandler) could be. Some teams lacked foresight and paid the price, to Detroit's benefit.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I think AB is physically limited by his lack of instinct. It is definitely not lack of effort.

I agree -- it's not a matter of effort, it's a matter of basketball IQ/instinct. Neither of those are physical, though.

I would argue that a player's failures are frustrating/angering to teammates and fans in the following order:

1. Lack of effort [Emotional]
2. Lack of instincts/IQ [Mental]
3. Lack of size/strength/speed [Physical]

Brimah provides #1, but then again sure do most players at the college level. His failures in #2 give a lift to the opponent, deflate us, and cause harm on the scoreboard.

 

[Giddyup5]

At 51-37, Brimah cuts off baseline and draws a charge.
At the other end, Purvis comes off an AB screen and both defenders overcommit to Brimah's roll (sensing a lob). Purvis gets a basically uncontested 15 footer (a flat-footed big put his hands up five feet away, but had no bearing on shot). 53-37.
Then OSU misses a 3, AB lays his body on his guy crashing the boards hard, neutralizing him, and Purvis gets the rebound
Back on the offensive end, Brimah sets a high screen for Gibbs and rolls hard to the basket - Omar is in the opposite corner and his man sinks all the way into the restricted area right under the basket to take away the lob. Gibbs reads it nicely and throws a cross court pass to Omar, who hits the open three. 56-37
Back at the other end, OSU looks like they will get a good look at a 3 in the corner, but AB flies out to contest. Announcers said he got a hand on the three, but ball hit rim and he doesn't get credit for a block, so announcers might have been seeing things. But he forced a rushed shot.
OSU keeps the ball on a rebound after a held ball - after deterring a couple dribble drives, AB ends the possession with a block, UConn ball.
After a media TO, Adams gets an and one with AB sitting. 59-37.
Miller fouls, Brimah comes back in
At 59-41, AB hands off to Gibbs on the perimeter and rolls. Gibbs beats his man and AB's man stays at home, keeping a body on him the whole way to deny the lob. Gibbs gets a red carpet to the rim for a layup line level shot. 61-41
On defense, AB gets a defensive rebound, draws foul, makes 1 of 2.
Next possession, AB gets a friendly roll for 2
At other end , he boxes out effectively on weak side and taps the rebound to Miller. Miller gets credit for it.
Back on offense, AB comes up to set another high screen, Purvis rejects the screen and goes opposite, AB's man stays on him, instead of sagging, Purvis uses that open lane to whip a pass to Miller for a dunk (a pass AB doesn't catch).

Next possession, AB fumbles a pass from Omar out on bounds. Boneyard screams that he's useless out there and we need Facey since we are playing 4 on 5. Stats show in that 6-minute stretch when we put it away, AB had 3 points, 1 rebound, 1 block.

This is why I love the Yard. Thanks Gurley!

 

[joober jones]

I don't think Enoch is quite ready to supplant Brimah in the rotation at this point.

 

[tzznandrew]

@mauconnfan - you always have to have one player you irrationally dislike. Brimah has displaced AO. Fair enough.

Kid isn't perfect, but as many others have pointed out, the team is much better with him on the floor.

 

[TheChamps990411]

If he's peaked as a player, why do his statistics show a measured improvement over the last 3 years? He just doesn't have as high a ceilings as everyone on here wants.

More playing time?

 

[intlzncster]

More playing time?

We're generally talking about per-whatever numbers so not sure that applies.