Bourbon & Rye

[HuskyHawk]

Our resident self proclaimed beer expert @Fishy is fond of American Single Malts so I offer up these two in competition with Westland and Westward.

Clermont Steep is 5 years old, 94 proof from Kentucky. It’s on the bourbon side of the single malt profile. I think they used some new charred oak. Not really “craft” as it from Beam/Suntory. It’s ok, but not something I’d get again.

Short Path is from Everett MA. 100% New England malted barley, 90 proof. Younger at 2+ years. This is more Scotch like and I prefer it despite the age. Softer profile. Still hard to justify compared to actual Scotch at $50 a bottle.

 

[Lafayette]

Well, been to Bermuda more than a few times as my wife worked in the reinsurance industry. Found that most of those companies were founded by Kentucky businessmen so despite having to put up with UK nonsense talk, you do get to try a good amount of high quality Whiskey and Bourbon. It really helps put up with the U Kentucky BS.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Special occasion Saturday so split this with a friend. Long held distinction as the worst BTAC offering but he likes smooth lower proof bourbons. It’s is good, quite a bit more wood than regular Eagle Rare. This is the 2016. 17 year old Eagle Rare.

View attachment 110968

Getting more of the oak and barrel flavor should be expected for a 17 year, no?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Getting more of the oak and barrel flavor should be expected for a 17 year, no?

Sure. But I think the relatively low proof robs it of what it could otherwise be. George T. Stagg, one of the other BTAC releases, just crushes this. Likewise the Sazerac 18 isn't as good as Thomas Handy.

 

[Fishy]

Our resident self proclaimed beer expert @Fishy is fond of American Single Malts so I offer up these two in competition with Westland and Westward.

Clermont Steep is 5 years old, 94 proof from Kentucky. It’s on the bourbon side of the single malt profile. I think they used some new charred oak. Not really “craft” as it from Beam/Suntory. It’s ok, but not something I’d get again.

Short Path is from Everett MA. 100% New England malted barley, 90 proof. Younger at 2+ years. This is more Scotch like and I prefer it despite the age. Softer profile. Still hard to justify compared to actual Scotch at $50 a bottle.

View attachment 110972

Price is really going to be an issue for those smaller distilleries.

They have a number they need to keep the lights on and that number represents a leap of faith to anyone looking to buy. There’s a small distillery around here - I think it’s called Ten Mile - and they basically say that they need to sell at x to justify making it.

Totally get it, but their x is more than I want to commit to something that I do not know anything about. Another distillery here - Vale Fox - sold a very good London dry gin and a few pleasant celeb collabs with Jeffrey Dean Morgan while waiting on their own single malt to come to market.

It came to market at $165. Instant brand death.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Price is really going to be an issue for those smaller distilleries.

They have a number they need to keep the lights on and that number represents a leap of faith to anyone looking to buy. There’s a small distillery around here - I think it’s called Ten Mile - and they basically say that they need to sell at x to justify making it.

Totally get it, but their x is more than I want to commit to something that I do not know anything about. Another distillery here - Vale Fox - sold a very good London dry gin and a few pleasant celeb collabs with Jeffrey Dean Morgan while waiting on their own single malt to come to market.

It came to market at $165. Instant brand death.

I think the Old Line single malts, from Maryland I believe, are both good and cheap.

The Clermont Steep is Beam/Suntory, so as big as it gets despite the disguise as a craft offering. They could sell it cheaper. I've talked to some other craft distillers and it is definitely a challenge to have something to sell. Vodka and Gin should be cheap though.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Recently returned from Japan for a work trip. Wanted to visit the Yamazaki distillery in Osaka, but there is a lottery that gets pulled two months in advance for the tours. I still visited the museum and picked up a few small bottles at the gift shop- The Single Malt Whisky and the Distillery Exclusive. I'll be cracking them this weekend to share with friends.

The 12 Year Single Malt is a unicorn in Japan but I was able to find some at a local liquor in a small town. It was behind a glass case and when I asked if they could open it I was told I needed a membership and store credit card to be eligible to buy it. Stuff was priced great at about 65%-75% of what I've seen for prices in the US.

Fast forward to this morning and I was at my local Navy Exchange liquor store just checking out to see if there was anything new. I was looking behind the counter where they keep their limited quantity and high value bottles and saw the Yamazaki 12 year. Funny enough when I approached the cash register the lady had noticed me checking out what they had and defaulted to asking if I wanted any of the Eagle Rare. I politely declined, got a price check on the Yamazaki and grabbed that bottle.

 

[Chin Diesel]

As for Mrs Diesel, while she enjoys a good tasting of bourbons, she would not complain if all she ever drank for the rest of her life is the Woodford Double Oak and Four Roses Single Barrels starting with the "OE" . The "E" is the higher corn mash bill whereas second letter "B" is the higher rye content.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Recently returned from Japan for a work trip. Wanted to visit the Yamazaki distillery in Osaka, but there is a lottery that gets pulled two months in advance for the tours. I still visited the museum and picked up a few small bottles at the gift shop- The Single Malt Whisky and the Distillery Exclusive. I'll be cracking them this weekend to share with friends.

The 12 Year Single Malt is a unicorn in Japan but I was able to find some at a local liquor in a small town. It was behind a glass case and when I asked if they could open it I was told I needed a membership and store credit card to be eligible to buy it. Stuff was priced great at about 65%-75% of what I've seen for prices in the US.

Fast forward to this morning and I was at my local Navy Exchange liquor store just checking out to see if there was anything new. I was looking behind the counter where they keep their limited quantity and high value bottles and saw the Yamazaki 12 year. Funny enough when I approached the cash register the lady had noticed me checking out what they had and defaulted to asking if I wanted any of the Eagle Rare. I politely declined, got a price check on the Yamazaki and grabbed that bottle.

It's so funny isn't it? I used to see Yamazaki on shelves for about $65. It was no big deal until they discontinued it. Springbank Scotches, always a little pricey, now are unobtanium. Midwinter Nights Dram from High West? My first bottle was $75, didn't think it was really worth that, did get a second. Now it's behind glass and $200. That Eagle Rare 17? I remember seeing that on shelves at MSRP, which was well under $100. Stagg Jr. was an everyday bourbon at $45, now stores want $200? Why? It isn't any better than Rare Breed. It isn't Buffalo Trace marking those up, it's the shops.

Had a discussion with Ryan Maloney from Julios/Loch & Key two weeks ago at the store. He said the Four Roses SiB store picks are a goner. They want to charge the stores $120 and he says he can't really sell it to anyone at $100. He's now the VP of the whole liquor store industry association. Talked about how sales are down across the board, every category, beer, wine, spirits. Mezacal is doing ok. But he's frustated by some producers not recognizing it. His store does so many single barrel store picks, he started the first ever program at Heaven Hill for those. But he's shifting to producers/bottlers that give him something unique and very good that he can sell at or below $100 and make money on. It's going to be interesting to watch the shakeout.

 

[Chin Diesel]

It's so funny isn't it? I used to see Yamazaki on shelves for about $65. It was no big deal until they discontinued it. Springbank Scotches, always a little pricey, now are unobtanium. Midwinter Nights Dram from High West? My first bottle was $75, didn't think it was really worth that, did get a second. Now it's behind glass and $200. That Eagle Rare 17? I remember seeing that on shelves at MSRP, which was well under $100. Stagg Jr. was an everyday bourbon at $45, now stores want $200? Why? It isn't any better than Rare Breed. It isn't Buffalo Trace marking those up, it's the shops.

Had a discussion with Ryan Maloney from Julios/Loch & Key two weeks ago at the store. He said the Four Roses SiB store picks are a goner. They want to charge the stores $120 and he says he can't really sell it to anyone at $100. He's now the VP of the whole liquor store industry association. Talked about how sales are down across the board, every category, beer, wine, spirits. Mezacal is doing ok. But he's frustated by some producers not recognizing it. His store does so many single barrel store picks, he started the first ever program at Heaven Hill for those. But he's shifting to producers/bottlers that give him something unique and very good that he can sell at or below $100 and make money on. It's going to be interesting to watch the shakeout.

Marketing and scarcity.

Those Four Roses bottles were mid-$40's.

The Barrel Strength Single Barrels were fetching $95 a bottle at the distillery gift shop when we visited it in May and were selling like crazy. I'd have a tough time paying $120 for it.

Did you accidentally switch up Eagle Rare and Rare Breed or did you intentionally mean Rare Breed by Wild Turkey. Rare Breed can be found around $45 and is a great bottle IMO.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Marketing and scarcity.

Those Four Roses bottles were mid-$40's.

The Barrel Strength Single Barrels were fetching $95 a bottle at the distillery gift shop when we visited it in May and were selling like crazy. I'd have a tough time paying $120 for it.

Did you accidentally switch up Eagle Rare and Rare Breed or did you intentionally mean Rare Breed by Wild Turkey. Rare Breed can be found around $45 and is a great bottle IMO.

I meant Rare Breed because it used to cost the same and was a simialr product (not that old, barrel proof) to Stagg Jr. Now RB is about $50 and Stagg Jr. is behind glass. That's just consumers being stupid. If idiots stop paying the inflated prices, or even patronizing stores that charge them, it would normalize. Old Weller Antique used to be $35. Now you can't get it except at secondary prices over $100. It's a lower tier bourbon.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I meant Rare Breed because it used to cost the same and was a simialr product (not that old, barrel proof) to Stagg Jr. Now RB is about $50 and Stagg Jr. is behind glass. That's just consumers being stupid. If idiots stop paying the inflated prices, or even patronizing stores that charge them, it would normalize. Old Weller Antique used to be $35. Now you can't get it except at secondary prices over $100. It's a lower tier bourbon.

I personally think the entire Buffalo Trace line of brands are all over priced. But what can you do? The people have spoken. Vox Populi.

 

[HCCForever]

As for Mrs Diesel, while she enjoys a good tasting of bourbons, she would not complain if all she ever drank for the rest of her life is the Woodford Double Oak and Four Roses Single Barrels starting with the "OE" . The "E" is the higher corn mash bill whereas second letter "B" is the higher rye content.
View attachment 110987

I’m a fan of Woodford Double Oak as well. I brought it to a family party and we happily finished it.

 

[Deepelm]

I meant Rare Breed because it used to cost the same and was a simialr product (not that old, barrel proof) to Stagg Jr. Now RB is about $50 and Stagg Jr. is behind glass. That's just consumers being stupid. If idiots stop paying the inflated prices, or even patronizing stores that charge them, it would normalize. Old Weller Antique used to be $35. Now you can't get it except at secondary prices over $100. It's a lower tier bourbon.

Lol, again someone has me on ignore or I am blocked from seeing their posts.

 

[Deepelm]

I’m a fan of Woodford Double Oak as well. I brought it to a family party and we happily finished it.

If you find Peerless DO at a bar, or have a buddy with some, give that a try. Very different than the Woodford and quite tasty.

 

[HCCForever]

If you find Peerless DO at a bar, or have a buddy with some, give that a try. Very different than the Woodford and quite tasty.

Thanks for the suggestion. I found a bourbon bar close to me and I will see if they have it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Lol, again someone has me on ignore or I am blocked from seeing their posts.

It's not me!

 

[HuskyHawk]

I personally think the entire Buffalo Trace line of brands are all over priced. But what can you do? The people have spoken. Vox Populi.

But it's not Buffalo Trace doing it. Weller 12 MSRP is $40. Colonel EH Taylor Small Batch is also $40. But good luck finding either at that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If you find Peerless DO at a bar, or have a buddy with some, give that a try. Very different than the Woodford and quite tasty.

Thanks for the suggestion. I found a bourbon bar close to me and I will see if they have it.

You can also regularly find the small .375 bottles of Peerless.

Until discussing with someone at a distillery in Beaufort, SC, I didn't realize it has the low entry proof that often produces some very flavorful bourbons. May need to revisit it.

 

[Deepelm]

You can also regularly find the small .375 bottles of Peerless.

Until discussing with someone at a distillery in Beaufort, SC, I didn't realize it has the low entry proof that often produces some very flavorful bourbons. May need to revisit it.

I've never seen 375 of their spirit. I would love to find them though, since the 750's are $100 + for the DO or toasted.

 

[Deepelm]

It's not me!

But it's not Buffalo Trace doing it. Weller 12 MSRP is $40. Colonel EH Taylor Small Batch is also $40. But good luck finding either at that.

Its whoever you replied to here.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I thought I gave Mrs Diesel clear instructions.

Go to the military liquor store and get the Woodfrod Doubel Oak which is on sale for $44.

Instead she did this. We have done some sampling of the Booker releases over the past year with some friends and the 2025-01 is our favorite.

 

[Deepelm]

I thought I gave Mrs Diesel clear instructions.

Go to the military liquor store and get the Woodfrod Doubel Oak which is on sale for $44.

Instead she did this. We have done some sampling of the Booker releases over the past year with some friends and the 2025-01 is our favorite.

View attachment 111218

New Riff is good stuff.

 

[Fishy]

New Riff is good stuff.

It is. Also, priced right.

 

[Deepelm]

It is. Also, priced right.

100%. We have done 3 picks with them at work, all under $60 for cask strength single barrels. And they were all bangers. The one we have now is a #1 toast barrel, and its just straight brown sugar on the nose and palate.

 

[Deepelm]

Our latest SB from them

 

[Chin Diesel]

Our latest SB from them

View attachment 111452

We broke out the New Riff last just and tried it neat. It had a bit of a bite to it. All three of us who tried it liked it better on the rocks.
Mrs Diesel picked up this mason jar at a boutique shop, so we poured the rest of the. New Riff in it last night and will tryi it this afternoon.

 

[Chin Diesel]

 

[HuskyHawk]

We broke out the New Riff last just and tried it neat. It had a bit of a bite to it. All three of us who tried it liked it better on the rocks.
Mrs Diesel picked up this mason jar at a boutique shop, so we poured the rest of the. New Riff in it last night and will tryi it this afternoon.
View attachment 111465

It’s barrel proof and a bit young. So yeah, has an aggressive profile. Not “smooth”, but then some of us view smooth = boring.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So, I talked to Ryan Maloney at Julio’s a few weeks back and he was excited about this distillery and some barrel picks they had coming. It’s unique as a genuine Estate distillery. They grow all their own corn, rye and barley and in Nevada of all places. This is cheap, $35, a bit young and harsh, but the quality grains do come though. Potential, and I applaud the attempt.