Blog Speculation: "Texas to the ACC?"

[brasssbonanzaa]

And as any rational football fan knew beforehand, they got their asses kicked and only played Bama due to a flawed system. 8 team playoff - ND likely loses in the first round.

I wasn't commenting at all on the team's ability, I was commenting on the fan and media reaction to the team's undefeated regular season and championship game berth.

 

[Gfunk]

Baylor, until a couple years ago, was one of the worst football schools out there. The old Texas Gov. Anne Richards had to threaten U. Texas just to shoehorn Baylor into the B12. No one wanted them. They were one of the excluded when all the talk was of the Pac10 picking up 4 B12 schools. Plus, they are a smaller private religious school, non-AAU. Chances of landing in the B1G are practically nil.

Oklahoma is interesting because it has the football credentials that Nebraska has. Nebraska and Oklahoma are quite similar in so many ways, so that's very understandable. Oklahoma however would be hurt pretty badly by not playing Texas schools, so I don't see them moving out of the south because of what it would imply about their recruiting.

Kansas does not have a partner for landing in the B1G.

I've seen this issue come up on Landthieves. I'm not sure how I think about it. A lot of OU fans aren't worried about their Tx pipeline in a BIG without UT & also think the relationship between the two schools is too strong to ever sacrifice the Red River Rivalry, which pre-dates the Big8. Some OU fans think it's better to play UT in a manner which doesn't sacrifice their conference standing, thus, like the days before the Big12 - Big8 and SWC.

Also, Ok borders Tx, it's simply a very convenient out of state option for Tx recruits. Nebraksa is a lot further north : ).

 

[Gfunk]

I wasn't commenting at all on the team's ability, I was commenting on the fan and media reaction to the team's undefeated regular season and championship game berth.

I hear you. My point is that too much hype goes into certain programs, esp ND. My ultimate argument is of course a play off.

There are certain programs that can turn around on a dime, but I no longer think ND is one of them. They struggled for decades until last year, and now they are back to being an after thought because this year they won't even come close to a NCG. They aren't like a Tx or Bama, hell many schools in the Southeast or Southwest, because they don't have the backyard to pluck from, esp since ND is ultimately second fiddle in all but football in Indiana. But if IU, for example, miraculously had a Rose Bowl type season, the state support would eclipse any hype ND has ever gotten in the Hoosier State. IU is ultimately the pride and joy of Indiana, Purdue next - ND is that national school for elites with a proven, proud football history, no more, no less.

 

[Fishy]

Notre Dame's position in Indiana is completely irrelevant - for God's sake, Indiana football is irrelevant in Indiana.

Notre Dame is probably the one true national program. Every one of their remaining games will be played on ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox.

That's muscle - they'll be just fine.

(Not surprising that their deal with NBC alone is worth more than the AAC's yearly 'haul' with ESPN.)

 

[Gfunk]

Notre Dame's position in Indiana is completely irrelevant - for God's sake, Indiana football is irrelevant in Indiana.

Notre Dame is probably the one true national program. Every one of their remaining games will be played on ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox.

That's muscle - they'll be just fine.

(Not surprising that their deal with NBC alone is worth more than the AAC's yearly 'haul' with ESPN.)

ND's BCS record speaks for itself. You're a UConn fan right? Would you trade those 3 NCs under Calhoun for say any number of BIG schools that make more basketball money on an annual basis? I wouldn't. My point is ND's chances of winning it all are slim for now and the foreseeable future. At the end of the day, most of those SEC schools have major built in advantages: most have plenty of money, better recruits, better conference, etc. I wish I could say otherwise. Schools like Michigan and OSU are on the same boat as ND when put up against most of the SEC. Both have plenty of money as well. The muscle that matters is the talent on the football field. ND has simply been floored on the BCS stage, badly. I'm sure they'd trade the money for NC muscle.

 

[upstater]

I've seen this issue come up on Landthieves. I'm not sure how I think about it. A lot of OU fans aren't worried about their Tx pipeline in a BIG without UT & also think the relationship between the two schools is too strong to ever sacrifice the Red River Rivalry, which pre-dates the Big8. Some OU fans think it's better to play UT in a manner which doesn't sacrifice their conference standing, thus, like the days before the Big12 - Big8 and SWC.

Also, Ok borders Tx, it's simply a very convenient out of state option for Tx recruits. Nebraksa is a lot further north : ).

I get this, but if all your games are in Great Lakes territory, that changes the equation.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I get this, but if all your games are in Great Lakes territory, that changes the equation.

That's my argument. OK borders Mizzouri, Arkansas and TX. Nebraska is the only B1G school within shouting distance, although in the proposed scenario, KU would be. Even Iowa, the next closest school in the B1G, is about as far as LSU, or the Mississippi schools. Oklahoma is pretty far south. I think they prefer the B12 stay intact, but the SEC is academically superior to the B12 in most respects, so I don't think that's a negative influence.

 

[upstater]

That's my argument. OK borders Mizzouri, Arkansas and TX. Nebraska is the only B1G school within shouting distance, although in the proposed scenario, KU would be. Even Iowa, the next closest school in the B1G, is about as far as LSU, or the Mississippi schools. Oklahoma is pretty far south. I think they prefer the B12 stay intact, but the SEC is academically superior to the B12 in most respects, so I don't think that's a negative influence.

Having been to OK, the state really does have about 1/3rd of it that would fit in well with the B1G. Tulsa and the prairie around it have a very midwest feel to it. But the important part of the state where all the decisions are made (ie. oil) is the other 2/3rds, the part of the state that is all red clay, like western Texas.

 

[Vowelguy]

Baylor could be possible for either league.

There is NOOO way that the B10 is bringing on a Baptist school.

 

[UConnJim]

I am sure that everyone in the Big 12 is wary of what Texas may do in the future. BUT, Texas football is in a great position within the Big 12 to dominate and easily make the college football playoffs. Think about it. The only real traditional football power in the Big 12 outside of Texas is Oklahoma. (Yes, the OSUs, WVUs, KSU's can have good seasons, but they can't be dominant in the Big 12. over the long haul.) It's like the ACC with Florida St the only traditional power which means FSU should have an easy path to the playoffs most years.

Realistically, I think the most likely landing spot for Texas is the Pac 12. Think about it:

Pac East: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Arizona St.

Pac West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Oregon St., Washington, Washington St.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

There is NOOO way that the B10 is bringing on a Baptist school.

Yes, the B1g is vehemently against heavily religious schools. The obvious exception being ND, because it's ND. Even BC is a very, very liberal and non-religious religious school. But I could not in a million years see the B1G taking a Baptist school from Texas, much less one who has a marginal football program.

 

[Fishy]

I don't think Baylor has much appeal to anyone outside of the Big 12.

Even the Big 12 is ambivalent about Baylor - they essentially benefited from friends in politically-high places when the SWC broke up. Friendly politicians pushed Texas Tech and Baylor in over Texas Christian.

There's a reason Baylor threatened legal action when Texas A&M was looking to leave for the SEC - without the Big 12, Baylor is homeless.

 

[whaler11]

Baylor. Hilarious. #TARP

 

[upstater]

Yes, the B1g is vehemently against heavily religious schools. The obvious exception being ND, because it's ND. Even BC is a very, very liberal and non-religious religious school. But I could not in a million years see the B1G taking a Baptist school from Texas, much less one who has a marginal football program.

Notre Dame is a lot more liberal than BC in terms of the administration. It has everything to do with who is running the school. ND has a lot of diversity and rarely interferes with academics, whereas BC has been very heavy-handed with this kind of thing through the decades. From shutting down women's studies to trampling on academic freedom for an English prof. in the 1980s to refusing to hire a prominent professor in the 2000s because he happened to be gay. ND is run by the Brothers of Holy Cross, one of the outfits that is left of the Catholic mainstream. On the other hand, judging by the reaction of alumni to Obama's visit, it may be that those who attend ND are more conservative.

Let's face it, this is all about football.

 

[larryredbull]

I don't think Baylor has much appeal to anyone outside of the Big 12.

Even the Big 12 is ambivalent about Baylor - they essentially benefited from friends in politically-high places when the SWC broke up. Friendly politicians pushed Texas Tech and Baylor in over Texas Christian.

There's a reason Baylor threatened legal action when Texas A&M was looking to leave for the SEC - without the Big 12, Baylor is homeless.

Baylor who's current stadium is tarped to reduce available seats (they are building a new stadium that will actually seat less, 45,000) wouldn't be a target for any other conference. They are the Wake Forest of the B12. Their recent sucess is mainly due to a good coaching hire and a good luck. Those 2 things will run out and Baylor will go back to mediocrity in FB.

 

[NEforceUConn]

I don't think Baylor has much appeal to anyone outside of the Big 12.

I don't think UConn has much appeal to anyone outside of the AAC.

wish i didn't have to write it, but its depressing.

 

[upstater]

I don't think UConn has much appeal to anyone outside of the AAC.

wish i didn't have to write it, but its depressing.

UConn at least had a majority of schools in the ACC looking to include it. It lost out to Pitt and Louisville for various reasons. Baylor, to the best of my knowledge, has never been a candidate for one of these conferences.

 

[billybud]

Baylor, to its disadavantage is outside of the footprint, by quite a a bit, of these conferences...UConn is not.

 

[SouthronCross]

Baylor has A LOT of political pull in Texas. Thats how they got into the Big 12 over TCU. And, their backers will fight to the very end to keep them tied to wherever UT goes.

But, if the 16-team superconferences come to pass, they will be on the outside looking in, IMHO. The Texas GA's reach only goes so far.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Unfortunately for Baylor Ann Richards has passed away.

 

[progrocks]

Unfortunately for Texas Ann Richards has passed away.

 

[btstimpy]

UConn at least had a majority of schools in the ACC looking to include it. It lost out to Pitt and Louisville for various reasons. Baylor, to the best of my knowledge, has never been a candidate for one of these conferences.

I'd definitely vote for UConn over Baylor, and over most others for the ACC. We've gone over the proximity to New York and Boston, supporting ACC presence in NY and a close proximity rival that the BC and UConn fans could get excited about locally in New England. So UConn fits the ACC footprint very well.

Then academically, UConn is top 60 in USN&WR, which fits very well. UConn would be in the middle of the pack within the ACC there. That's a good fit.

Then athletically, the ACC sponsors 25 sports. UConn sponsors varsity teams in 22 of the 25 missing only Men's Lacrosse, Wrestling, and Women's Golf. The athletic department at UConn is healthy and could step into the majority of the sports. It looks like the ACC is going to add Men's & Women's Fencing, which only a handfull sponsor today. It would take the ACC to 27. UConn has ice hockey, and I have to imagine that if the ACC gets a television network, the ACC would strike some kind of deal to show Hockey East games particularly if UConn joins with Notre Dame and Boston College. All are Hockey East.

Football wouldn't be the driver for UConn to the ACC IMO, but it would need to maintain itself as competitive enough to make the games interesting. Some will say that nothing else matters but football. Well not to everyone and certainly not to a conference network. Connecticut has excellent venues for Swimming and Soccer from what I've seen that would fit in very well.

Baylor, on the other hand, is ranked 75 academically. That would work, but it's lower than UConn. And Baylor only sponsors 17 of the ACC's 25 sports. Texas only sponsors 20 of the 25. They should be ashamed with all the money their athletic department makes. That's a lot of missing content for the Long Horn Network.

 

[whaler11]

If things have gotten so bad there needs to be a discussion over Baylor and UConn for the ACC..... um one fits and the other doesn't.

 

[Fishy]

Baylor has A LOT of political pull in Texas. Thats how they got into the Big 12 over TCU. And, their backers will fight to the very end to keep them tied to wherever UT goes.

But, if the 16-team superconferences come to pass, they will be on the outside looking in, IMHO. The Texas GA's reach only goes so far.

Baylor no longer has that pull - it was a very specific situation that got them into the Big 12 over TCU.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If things have gotten so bad there needs to be a discussion over Baylor and UConn for the ACC..... um one fits and the other doesn't.

I mentioned them, forgetting the religious connection, as a possible for the B1G, not the ACC. It was a mistake, quickly renounced. Honestly, only UT and A&M would appeal to the B1G in TX. They do want access to richer demographics and were shut out of NC. The ACC has fabulous demographics and doesn't need that help. The B1G cities are all shrinking. I posted before they had (I think) 7 of the ten slowest growing cities as their key markets (for the nutty Buffalo to the B1G crowd, that would give the 8 of 10).

I actually long thought that the B1G could consider trying to poach Colorado from a demographics perspective. That would be a partner for Kansas, one they may prefer to Missouri.

 

[upstater]

I mentioned them, forgetting the religious connection, as a possible for the B1G, not the ACC. It was a mistake, quickly renounced. Honestly, only UT and A&M would appeal to the B1G in TX. They do want access to richer demographics and were shut out of NC. The ACC has fabulous demographics and doesn't need that help. The B1G cities are all shrinking. I posted before they had (I think) 7 of the ten slowest growing cities as their key markets (for the nutty Buffalo to the B1G crowd, that would give the 8 of 10).

I actually long thought that the B1G could consider trying to poach Colorado from a demographics perspective. That would be a partner for Kansas, one they may prefer to Missouri.

This demographic thing is really a non-issue for both TV markets and for colleges. The size of the B1G universities more than make up for the gain in market share down south, where the schools are much smaller. As for transplants, their local ties are not that strong, and you likely won't find a Michigan kid rooting for North Carolina just because he moved to Charlotte.

 

[billybud]

Give it a generation...

Many of the parents of fans of Florida teams came from somewhere else...FSU and Gator fans aren't usually second generation Florida natives.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

If Texas goes anywhere its to the SEC
The populated area of Texas are closer to Louisiana than AZ.
I don't know if A&M could keep them out.
Thats the best football conference in the country and its got to bother the fans that their rival is stealing their glory.

 

[larryredbull]

If Texas goes anywhere its to the SEC
The populated area of Texas are closer to Louisiana than AZ.
I don't know if A&M could keep them out.
Thats the best football conference in the country and its got to bother the fans that their rival is stealing their glory.

Texas never goes to the SEC. Multiple reasons why this never happens.

 

[Gfunk]

I mentioned them, forgetting the religious connection, as a possible for the B1G, not the ACC. It was a mistake, quickly renounced. Honestly, only UT and A&M would appeal to the B1G in TX. They do want access to richer demographics and were shut out of NC. The ACC has fabulous demographics and doesn't need that help. The B1G cities are all shrinking. I posted before they had (I think) 7 of the ten slowest growing cities as their key markets (for the nutty Buffalo to the B1G crowd, that would give the 8 of 10).

I actually long thought that the B1G could consider trying to poach Colorado from a demographics perspective. That would be a partner for Kansas, one they may prefer to Missouri.

Ah this is overstatement - try slower growth & a handful of cities who are shrinking, yet their metros are still growing. I live in Minneapolis-Saint Paul. In just 2 years Minneapolis has grown by nearly 10 thousand people and is currently part of a metro that ranks 13the in the US, GDP, large metros. It's quite possible Minneapolis will go from 383,000 in 2010 to well over 410,000 by 2020 - from 2000 to 2010, Mpls actually lost about 200 people, but the metro grew plenty. I'm starting to lose track of all the construction going on this city - in fact it's annoying - and damn, city planning is my field.

What BIG administrators don't seem to get is that hs football has been superior in the Southeast and Tx for well over 50 years. The rise of the SEC & success of other schools in the region, as well as the Southwest, correlates with post-segregation policies. It's just an understated fact on CF boards. Such a divide could be changed, though a competitive gap will always remain: states in the BIG, and only if they want to, could implement spring football and build year round facilities. But hey now, there are more important things at the end of the day.

Bottom line: BIG football will depend more on a few king programs who recruit nationally to keep pace, which has been the case anyways. If the BIG can expand w/my wish list: OU, Tx, UConn, KU if 18, then Tx solves a lot of recruiting issues and adds two more kings in football, two kings in hoops. Case closed - set for the very long term, big two sports.