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nelsonmuntz said:
You are right. Head Coaches don't matter. I am surprised more teams don't cut costs and let the players just coach themselves.
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Since you admitted to SDH last week that you do put words in other people's mouths, how about if you stop? I'm on your side in this debate, but it's absurd to pretend that him saying that a coach leaving in December has little effect is the same as saying that a head coach leaving earlier in the year, or never having been there, has little effect.
 
businesslawyer said:
Since you admitted to SDH last week that you do put words in other people's mouths, how about if you stop? I'm on your side in this debate, but it's absurd to pretend that him saying that a coach leaving in December has little effect is the same as saying that a head coach leaving earlier in the year, or never having been there, has little effect.
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Bill Stewart? Steve Fischer? TJ Weist?
 
businesslawyer said:
Since you admitted to SDH last week that you do put words in other people's mouths, how about if you stop? I'm on your side in this debate, but it's absurd to pretend that him saying that a coach leaving in December has little effect is the same as saying that a head coach leaving earlier in the year, or never having been there, has little effect.
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I'm not even saying that a coach leaving in December has little effect. I'm saying that the playoff selection committee isn't going to significantly discount a 59-0 win over a ranked opponent in the B1G title game because their head coach had already left.
 
As a little anecdote:

I was at a company Christmas party at a hotel a few blocks from that game. I couldn't easily get game updates, but I started noticing lots of Cheeseheads walking by.

None of the Wisconsin fans who were leaving early and returning to the hotel were blaming it on the departure of their coach.

Further: When your AD is a coaching legend, the impact of the departure of the football coach is diminished a bit.
 
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Seaa Blue said:
As a little anecdote:

I was at a company Christmas party at a hotel a few blocks from that game. I couldn't easily get game updates, but I started noticing lots of Cheeseheads walking by.

None of the Wisconsin fans who were leaving early and returning to the hotel were blaming it on the departure of their coach.

Further: When your AD is a coaching legend, the impact of the departure of the football coach is diminished a bit.
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Actually, I'm guessing the reason for this is that nelson was (surprise) wrong, and Anderson didn't leave until four days after the B1G title game. Alvarez coached the team in the Outback Bowl, a win over Auburn.

I'm sure he'll post soon about how the fact that Anderson was planning to leave means that Ohio State's win shouldn't matter.
 
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CallMeBruce said:
I'm not even saying that a coach leaving in December has little effect. I'm saying that the playoff selection committee isn't going to significantly discount a 59-0 win over a ranked opponent in the B1G title game because their head coach had already left.
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The Playoff Committee was going to give the bid to Ohio State over TCU and Baylor if it was even close. You guys are coming up with reasons after the fact for why Ohio State got in and the other schools didn't, as if it was obvious for everyone to see.

The NCAA Basketball Selection Committee has ironically and disappointingly become more political, with the past two years being a big, fat, unfunny joke. The P5 being better than everyone else is becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy when they control the committee that decides who gets to compete.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
The Playoff Committee was going to give the bid to Ohio State over TCU and Baylor if it was even close. You guys are coming up with reasons after the fact for why Ohio State got in and the other schools didn't, as if it was obvious for everyone to see.

The NCAA Basketball Selection Committee has ironically and disappointingly become more political, with the past two years being a big, fat, unfunny joke. The P5 being better than everyone else is becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy when they control the committee that decides who gets to compete.
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I note that you failed to address the fact that you were wrong about Anderson leaving before the Big Ten title game, which completely negates your argument about that game having an 'asterisk' next to it.

And I'll admit, when the decision was made, I thought that TCU got screwed because 1) Ohio State was a bigger name and 2) they didn't play a CCG, so they were hurt by recency bias. And both of those things may have contributed, but the fact is that Ohio State's resume was stronger on the season than TCU's was. If you look at the teams they played and the games they won, they were better.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Actually, I'm guessing the reason for this is that nelson was (surprise) wrong, and Anderson didn't leave until four days after the B1G title game. Alvarez coached the team in the Outback Bowl, a win over Auburn.

I'm sure he'll post soon about how the fact that Anderson was planning to leave means that Ohio State's win shouldn't matter.
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I was wondering why Alvarez didn't coach the CCG.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
You just named all the successful coaches who had to step in at year end. Impressive.
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You said it had never happened. You were wrong.
Again
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
Or when you used to criticize Ray Allen's shooting mechanics.
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LOL. The differenc is that you actually said this. You are lying about what I said. Liar
 
CallMeBruce said:
Actually, I'm guessing the reason for this is that nelson was (surprise) wrong, and Anderson didn't leave until four days after the B1G title game. Alvarez coached the team in the Outback Bowl, a win over Auburn.

I'm sure he'll post soon about how the fact that Anderson was planning to leave means that Ohio State's win shouldn't matter.
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I thought this was the case. At work couldn't really take the time to fact check it. Thanks for doing the legwork.
 
noeynox said:
I thought this was the case. At work couldn't really take the time to fact check it. Thanks for doing the legwork.
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Nelson lied? and got caught again?
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Thabeet was too short to be a Big East center? Really?
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Isn't that what you claimed or Stanley Robinson wasn't athletic enough. Some pathetic cry for attention. Forget which.
 
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CallMeBruce said:
I note that you failed to address the fact that you were wrong about Anderson leaving before the Big Ten title game, which completely negates your argument about that game having an 'asterisk' next to it.

And I'll admit, when the decision was made, I thought that TCU got screwed because 1) Ohio State was a bigger name and 2) they didn't play a CCG, so they were hurt by recency bias. And both of those things may have contributed, but the fact is that Ohio State's resume was stronger on the season than TCU's was. If you look at the teams they played and the games they won, they were better.
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And Randy Edsall was coach of UConn against Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl except he was looking for a job somewhere else.

Anderson left 3 days after the game. You are right, he was 24/7 on Wisconsin right up to the time he walked out the door.
 
sdhusky said:
Isn't that what you claimed or Stanley Robinson wasn't athletic enough. Some pathetic cry for attention. Forget which.
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Nothing screams "look at me" quite like picking a fight with another poster.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Nothing screams "look at me" quite like picking a fight with another poster.
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Its does look pathetic when I do it, doesn't it? Just like it does with your 13,266 attempts to do the same.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Anderson left 3 days after the game. You are right, he was 24/7 on Wisconsin right up to the time he walked out the door.
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CallMeBruce said:
I'm sure he'll post soon about how the fact that Anderson was planning to leave means that Ohio State's win shouldn't matter.
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It's like clockwork. Nelson is always right, even when he's wrong.
 
EROCK CONN said:
Ohio State got into the playoffs because Jim Delaney is playing with a 25" dick. When Bob Bowlsby showed up, the college football power brokers took his tampon and threw it in the garbage.
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Delany may well have a lot of influence with the CFP committee for all we know. But Dooley gave an excellent analysis showing that any influence was not needed. If anything, if one of the "One" "True" "Champion" of the Big 12 deserved to get in, it should have been at the expense of FSU.
 
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Now the committee needs to judge just how hard the coach is trying.
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
And Randy Edsall was coach of UConn against Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl except he was looking for a job somewhere else.

Anderson left 3 days after the game. You are right, he was 24/7 on Wisconsin right up to the time he walked out the door.
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Yeah, I'm sure the selection committee was well aware (remember, the actual point of your line? Oh, wait, that would make you look (more) stupid - guess we'll leave that out).

Pathetic.
 
Pat125 said:
Delany may well have a lot of influence with the CFP committee for all we know. But Dooley gave an excellent analysis showing that any influence was not needed. If anything, if one of the "One" "True" "Champion" of the Big 12 deserved to get in, it should have been at the expense of FSU.
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We will never know, but I think that if TCU beat Baylor in the Big 12 CCG, Ohio State was still going to the playoffs.

I won't defend FSU. They looked primed for a curb stomping in the playoffs.

I have a problem with a conference game deciding whether a conference team goes to the playoffs. Everyone in the stadium for the Big 10 Championship Game, including Wisconsin, knew that the best thing for the league would be for Wisconsin to be blown out. Did Wisconsin throw the game? Probably not. Did Anderson? Probably not. Is it warped to have that game be decisive? Absolutely.

I would like to see more games between teams that benefit from winning rather than benefit from losing. Conference schedules should be 6 games, and the P5 teams should play 3 or 4 games against other P5 opponents. 9 game schedules are a bad idea, because it just makes the incentive problem worse. This is like asking someone to beat their boss in a 3 on 3 game at the company picnic.

Basketball avoids this problem because so many teams make the tournament, and there are so many bubble teams, that there is a bigger incentive to win in intraconference games than in football. That said, the selection committee has made a mockery of the regular season and the process the last two years with some of its bid/no bid decisions.
 
pepband99 said:
Yeah, I'm sure the selection committee was well aware (remember, the actual point of your line? Oh, wait, that would make you look (more) stupid - guess we'll leave that out).

Pathetic.
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No one grabs onto a tangential component of an argument and holds on for dear life quite like you do. Nice work.
 
whaler11 said:
Now the committee needs to judge just how hard the coach is trying.
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The committee should have enough sense to not make a single game the deciding factor when several aspects of that game raised questions.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
We will never know, but I think that if TCU beat Baylor in the Big 12 CCG, Ohio State was still going to the playoffs.

I won't defend FSU. They looked primed for a curb stomping in the playoffs.

I have a problem with a conference game deciding whether a conference team goes to the playoffs. Everyone in the stadium for the Big 10 Championship Game, including Wisconsin, knew that the best thing for the league would be for Wisconsin to be blown out. Did Wisconsin throw the game? Probably not. Did Anderson? Probably not. Is it warped to have that game be decisive? Absolutely.

I would like to see more games between teams that benefit from winning rather than benefit from losing. Conference schedules should be 6 games, and the P5 teams should play 3 or 4 games against other P5 opponents. 9 game schedules are a bad idea, because it just makes the incentive problem worse. This is like asking someone to beat their boss in a 3 on 3 game at the company picnic.

Basketball avoids this problem because so many teams make the tournament, and there are so many bubble teams, that there is a bigger incentive to win in intraconference games than in football. That said, the selection committee has made a mockery of the regular season and the process the last two years with some of its bid/no bid decisions.
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And now we're implying that Wisconsin deliberately got blown out for the good of the B1G. Right. You're a lunatic.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
No one grabs onto a tangential component of an argument and holds on for dear life quite like you do. Nice work.
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...says the guy who started the nonsensical, since proven wrong, tangent?

The 13th game argument strikes me as particularly silly. The Big 10 had so few quality wins out of conference last year that I do not get the argument for why another game against a Big 10 team made Ohio State's claim stronger. The fact that Wisconsin had just lost its coach put an even bigger asterisk next to the win.
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...and now goes on another one with Wisconsin throwing the game?

Yes, let's completely disregard a game that ends up being a statistically significant datapoint in a season with far too few valid comparitive ones, just because it happens to be the 13th game. Why not hand the playoff selection to the East German judge, and call it a day?
 
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