Big Ten football

[nelsonmuntz]

And now we're implying that Wisconsin deliberately got blown out for the good of the B1G. Right. You're a lunatic.

I am definitely implying that Wisconsin knew that the best thing for the league was for Wisconsin to lose.

But rather than waste my energy on this, why don't you explain to me why Wisconsin was going to try extra hard to beat Ohio State when a victory by the Badgers would literally cost the school millions of dollars? Are they throwing the game? Probably not. But like the 3 on 3 game at the company picnic, Wisconsin knew what the best outcome was for the school going into that game.

Look at the outcome. They got destroyed. Is Wisconsin 0-59 worse than Ohio State? The same Wisconsin team that went out and beat Auburn in a bowl game? Is Ohio State that much better than Wisconsin? The same Ohio State team that got beat by 2 TDs by VTech? Who knows what happens in a game like that? I do think it was a bad idea to make that game decisive, and I don't think it was.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I am definitely implying that Wisconsin knew that the best thing for the league was for Wisconsin to lose.

But rather than waste my energy on this, why don't you explain to me why Wisconsin was going to try extra hard to beat Ohio State when a victory by the Badgers would literally cost the school millions of dollars? Are they throwing the game? Probably not. But like the 3 on 3 game at the company picnic, Wisconsin knew what the best outcome was for the school going into that game.

Look at the outcome. They got destroyed. Is Wisconsin 0-59 worse than Ohio State? The same Wisconsin team that went out and beat Auburn in a bowl game? Is Ohio State that much better than Wisconsin? The same Ohio State team that got beat by 2 TDs by VTech? Who knows what happens in a game like that? I do think it was a bad idea to make that game decisive, and I don't think it was.

The people who decide how hard to play - the players - don't see a dime of that money, so why the hell do they care? I'm honestly not sure if you're trolling me with this nonsense. That's how ridiculous you are.

Is your argument now that the committee should have discounted the Wisconsin win because Wisconsin didn't have proper motivation to win the game?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

...says the guy who started the nonsensical, since proven wrong, tangent?



...and now goes on another one with Wisconsin throwing the game?

Yes, let's completely disregard a game that ends up being a statistically significant datapoint in a season with far too few valid comparitive ones, just because it happens to be the 13th game. Why not hand the playoff selection to the East German judge, and call it a day?

You couldn't take any of your arguments and turn them the other way. TCU played 9 conference games and Ohio State played 9 conference games, but TCU's conference was better last year. Should we just ignore all TCU's wins last year? That is what you are saying.

The Big 12 was 3-0 against the Big 10 last year. Overall the Big 10 was 6-11 against P5 schools and had 3 losses to the MAC. Should we ignore those games and just focus on a game where the losing team clearly gave up and the coach had 1 foot out the door?

 

[Adios]

You couldn't take any of your arguments and turn them the other way. TCU played 9 conference games and Ohio State played 9 conference games, but TCU's conference was better last year. Should we just ignore all TCU's wins last year? That is what you are saying.

The Big 12 was 3-0 against the Big 10 last year. Overall the Big 10 was 6-11 against P5 schools and had 3 losses to the MAC. Should we ignore those games and just focus on a game where the losing team clearly gave up and the coach had 1 foot out the door?

You going to propose we aim for the Big 12 now?

 

[whaler11]

The committee should have enough sense to not make a single game the deciding factor when several aspects of that game raised questions.

There are no aspects of the game that raise questions.

Also, they didn't decide of one game. They studied the resumes and correctly landed on the team with the best one. If you would stop firing off hot takes long enough to finally look at the data you might finally get it.

But since you've doubled down on the Wisconsin nonsense somehow I don't see it.

 

[whaler11]

You couldn't take any of your arguments and turn them the other way. TCU played 9 conference games and Ohio State played 9 conference games, but TCU's conference was better last year. Should we just ignore all TCU's wins last year? That is what you are saying.

The Big 12 was 3-0 against the Big 10 last year. Overall the Big 10 was 6-11 against P5 schools and had 3 losses to the MAC. Should we ignore those games and just focus on a game where the losing team clearly gave up and the coach had 1 foot out the door?

At some point hopefully you realize they are picking 4 teams. Not the a team from the four best conferences.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There are no aspects of the game that raise questions.

Also, they didn't decide of one game. They studied the resumes and correctly landed on the team with the best one. If you would stop firing off hot takes long enough to finally look at the data you might finally get it.

But since you've doubled down on the Wisconsin nonsense somehow I don't see it.

They studied resumes and ratings and asked ESPN who they wanted, and landed on Ohio State.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

At some point hopefully you realize they are picking 4 teams. Not the a team from the four best conferences.

At some point you realize that the only way to compare conference schedules is to figure out which conference is better. Or maybe we can go by tradition and fan base and DMA.

 

[whaler11]

Can you even imagine asking an FBS coach to lose a conference championship game for the good of the conference.

This is lunacy even for you.

 

[whaler11]

They studied resumes and ratings and asked ESPN who they wanted, and landed on Ohio State.

Well I guess they got lucky because they all picked correctly.

Why do you even follow a sport you believe is rigged?

 

[whaler11]

At some point you realize that the only way to compare conference schedules is to figure out which conference is better. Or maybe we can go by tradition and fan base and DMA.

Or maybe the season is 12-13 games long and not 9?

 

[Adios]

They studied resumes and ratings and asked ESPN who they wanted, and landed on Ohio State.

.....and guess who won?? You're better served offering tricks on the roadside. At least you'd get paid.

 

[The Funster]

Yikes! Is someone actually suggesting that Wisconsin threw that game?

Completely, totally bizarre.

 

[dayooper]

You couldn't take any of your arguments and turn them the other way. TCU played 9 conference games and Ohio State played 9 conference games, but TCU's conference was better last year. Should we just ignore all TCU's wins last year? That is what you are saying.

The Big 12 was 3-0 against the Big 10 last year. Overall the Big 10 was 6-11 against P5 schools and had 3 losses to the MAC. Should we ignore those games and just focus on a game where the losing team clearly gave up and the coach had 1 foot out the door?

I like your style. Two of the three games you cite were decided by a field goal, but why leave that out. It may make a difference. The third was TCU vs Minny freaking sota. Not MSU, Not OSU, not Wisconsin, but Minnesota. Funny, when two of the better ranked teams played (MSU vs. Baylor), the Big10 team won. MSU beat a team you are complaining about being left out. That same MSU team lost to OSU by 12 points at home.

I could see your point until you insinuated that Wisconsin threw the game to help the Big10. That might be the dumbest thing I have ever seen you write.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Does any other sport in the world regularly have situations where both teams in a contest are better off if one of the teams wins?

 

[woomba]

So how much do you think the UConn AD made last year by throwing all those games?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Does any other sport in the world regularly have situations where both teams in a contest are better off if one of the teams wins?

Somebody doesn't watch the NBA.

In all seriousness, your characterization of that game is ludicrous. Even if they're not going to the playoffs, Wisconsin still wants to win a conference championship. That has value to a college football team. And beyond that, it's not like the university president is going to be able to fix a football game. The coach, who is more valuable if he wins, and the players, who don't get paid either way, are the ones who ultimately decide who wins the game.

And not only are you insinuating that Wisconsin players aren't going to play hard because it will potentially lead to the university administration making slightly more money, and the taxpayers getting a little bit of a break, but also that the CFP selection committee should discount the win because of it? You, sir, are on a level of your own.

 

[dayooper]

Does any other sport in the world regularly have situations where both teams in a contest are better off if one of the teams wins?

Absolutely. Any time there is a conference championship. If a team not likely to make the tourney is up against one that assuredly will, it is advantageous for the better team to lose.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Absolutely. Any time there is a conference championship. If a team not likely to make the tourney is up against one that assuredly will, it is advantageous for the better team to lose.

I assume you mean in basketball. The payoff of getting an extra team in the Dance is negligible to a major conference, particularly if that team is going to be an 11 or a 12 seed, which any team that needs to win its conference tournament to go to the Dance is by default. On the other hand, losing to an 18 or 19 win team right before the dance can cost a good team 1 or 2 seeds and significantly impact their potential to advance to the second weekend.

Wisconsin had absolutely nothing at stake in that game.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

They studied resumes and ratings and asked ESPN who they wanted, and landed on Ohio State.

The P5 consist of 4 conferences who have invested in a conference championship game, 1 conference who has not and an independent. If at the end of the season the best XII team has the same record as as each of the conference champions, the XII team is going to be left out every time.

 

[dayooper]

I assume you mean in basketball. The payoff of getting an extra team in the Dance is negligible to a major conference, particularly if that team is going to be an 11 or a 12 seed, which any team that needs to win its conference tournament to go to the Dance is by default. On the other hand, losing to an 18 or 19 win team right before the dance can cost a good team 1 or 2 seeds and significantly impact their potential to advance to the second weekend.

Wisconsin had absolutely nothing at stake in that game.

Apparently, you are not the type of person to have played at a high level of sports. To play at a high level, you must be a very competitive person. One that hates to lose. They did have something at stake, their pride. The pride of going to the Rose Bowl (if they have won). The pride of upsetting a team that everyone in the Big10 can't stand. A chance to increase your recruiting profile. A chance to do what any thoroughbred wants to do, perform in the biggest stage with the championship is on the line.

As a college athlete, I would have loved to play in that type of game, to compete against the best I would never have thrown any game. As a coach, every loss I get eats away at me. I have been apart of a State Chanpionship staff at one of the highest, most competitive divisions in the state. Even as a middle school coach, they eat away.

Just because it fits your meme of UConn should dump their football team, you shouldn't all over a group of kids and their coaches. That a very offensive thing to do.

 

[Irishfan]

Apparently, you are not the type of person to have played at a high level of sports. To play at a high level, you must be a very competitive person. One that hates to lose. They did have something at stake, their pride. The pride of going to the Rose Bowl (if they have won). The pride of upsetting a team that everyone in the Big10 can't stand. A chance to increase your recruiting profile. A chance to do what any thoroughbred wants to do, perform in the biggest stage with the championship is on the line.

As a college athlete, I would have loved to play in that type of game, to compete against the best I would never have thrown any game. As a coach, every loss I get eats away at me. I have been apart of a State Chanpionship staff at one of the highest, most competitive divisions in the state. Even as a middle school coach, they eat away.

Just because it fits your meme of UConn should dump their football team, you shouldn't all over a group of kids and their coaches. That a very offensive thing to do.

I am sure that in an effort to help the Big Ten, Michigan would intentionally lose to Michigan State and then follow that up with an intentional loss to Ohio State. Putting up with the abuse from Spartan and Buckeye fans would be worth it if they knew it was helping the conference. They are truly team players.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Apparently, you are not the type of person to have played at a high level of sports. To play at a high level, you must be a very competitive person. One that hates to lose. They did have something at stake, their pride. The pride of going to the Rose Bowl (if they have won). The pride of upsetting a team that everyone in the Big10 can't stand. A chance to increase your recruiting profile. A chance to do what any thoroughbred wants to do, perform in the biggest stage with the championship is on the line.

As a college athlete, I would have loved to play in that type of game, to compete against the best I would never have thrown any game. As a coach, every loss I get eats away at me. I have been apart of a State Chanpionship staff at one of the highest, most competitive divisions in the state. Even as a middle school coach, they eat away.

Just because it fits your meme of UConn should dump their football team, you shouldn't all over a group of kids and their coaches. That a very offensive thing to do.

This was a potpourri of message board drivel, throwing condescension and indignation along with unprovable resume claims of subject matter expertise. Bully for you.

Your argument is that because you think you are competitive and athletic, therefore no major program would play a big game differently even if the best thing for them would be a loss. And you know this because you coach middle school kids and have never been in a position to lose your school a million dollars or more. Got it.

I enjoy watching college football, and I think it is the most strategic of the major sports. College football is rotten to its core, and trails only international soccer in terms of corruption among major sports. It is a sport that permanently maims a large percentage of its participants, most of whom come from poor backgrounds. The sport is predatory and exclusionary, and has created a monopoly that has devalued the athletic programs of dozens of schools, including UConn. It maintains a bowl system that makes no sense at all and costs the schools, and the taxpayers that support those schools, millions of dollars in lost revenue. And they do this so a few hundred middle aged and old men can pull in huge salaries and hang out with rich boosters. So no, I would not put it past the major conferences to fix games given all the other crap the sport does.

This has happened in other sports by the way. There was a significant scandal in Sumo Wrestling about 20 years ago, because the system the sport used at the time actually rewarded wrestlers for cooperating with their opponents. So, not surprisingly, the wrestlers started cooperating and trading wins. It is pure naivety to think that those running these programs are too stupid to figure out what is best for their school. I suspect that they are very good at figuring out what is best for them and their school, and that is why they are coaching and running major college football teams and you are not.

If you want to figure out how people are going to act, don't argue pride and competitive spirit. All you need to do is look at their financial incentives.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I am sure that in an effort to help the Big Ten, Michigan would intentionally lose to Michigan State and then follow that up with an intentional loss to Ohio State. Putting up with the abuse from Spartan and Buckeye fans would be worth it if they knew it was helping the conference. They are truly team players.

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

And history has proven that the officials definitely know which team's victory benefits the conference. See Pitt/WVU around 2008 and Texas/Nebraska 2009.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

 

[itgoeslike]

This gets to what is unfortunately going to be an ongoing problem with the selection. The argument should be about which team accomplished more/played better over their 12 or 13 games. Unfortunately, we're stuck with "experts" and selectors who want to talk about who is "better" and who they would expect to win a heads up matchup. Once you turn it from primarily objective to primarily subective, the process won't work.

The BCS rankings (which was, in part, data driven) eroded influence and control. The CFP moved to restore much of the back room dealings. It's back to being political. At the end of the day, money always trumps the concept of fairness.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

If an unranked Michigan ever threw a game against Ohio St to that Ohio St could play in a National Championship Game/BCS bowl, Michigan's athletic and academic leaders would be lynched and hung along the trees on S State St. If the roles were reversed, the same would happen in Columbus. Hanging would be too civilized for Michigan St fans if the Spartans purposely lost a game to the Wolverines.

 

[sdhusky]

I could see your point until you insinuated that Wisconsin threw the game to help the Big10. That might be the dumbest thing I have ever seen you write.

You haven't read much. I don't think that even in the top 1000 of his dumbest posts.

 

[sdhusky]

If you want to figure out how people are going to act, don't argue pride and competitive spirit. All you need to do is look at their financial incentives.

How do you make money by posting 12000 times on the boneyard?