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Big Papi

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Fishy said:
Must be something about outlaws that makes New Englanders go damp in their undies....Whitey Bulger, the Kennedys, Tom Brady.

I guess Ortiz is just the flavor the month there.

You kids love a bad boy.
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Not all of New England. Half of CT is very sane.
 
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What bipolar thinking. Either the guy is a saint who never used steroids or he is a cancer among us?
As a Yankee fan, I feared and respected him. Maybe I was fooled, but he brought joy to the game. I like him.
But to protest that he never used steroids, that is a form of idolatry reserved for Boston. His own words don't leave room for doubt. He "accidentally" used "only what every other player was using" and"apologized" for being careless. For that, I will take Andy Pettitte any day
 
UConn990411 said:
I don't pretend that - he probably was using something then and he certainly might be now.

It's just funny that there are frequently Giants threads on this board, and pretty much only Giants fans seem to post in them. Yet anytime a Pats or Red Sox thread is started, the majority of the posts are from non-Boston fans.

But I guess if your city has two teams in every sport and they all stink, those fans might be a little miserable.
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When have our teams always stunk? Yet another idiotic post. Your defense of the dope is NY teams stink?

You guys are both hilarious and forgetful. When did baseball and football start, in the 2000's? LOL and these are the same fans who thought Yankee fans were arrogant and now you are by far the most arrogant fans in the USA. Enjoy your Papi wind down, he's really someone to admire no doubt.:eek:
 
Just to piggyback... Huge Yankee fan; have always disliked Ortiz but absolutely feared and respected him as a player. I've never understood how Boston fans could look the other way on his failings and revere him so. This is the same guy they were trying to run out of town a few years ago when he was hideous, the same guy who has made a fool of himself questioning official scorers, watching homeruns, not hustling, etc. and who failed the same drug test as ARod in 2004. Fun fact, ARod and Ortiz have failed the same amount of drug tests. Difference is ARod admitted his doings in 2004, Papi blamed it on some milkshakes and laughed it off. ARod becomes a steroid villain (obviously didn't help his case in subsequent years) Papi gets a pass. Not trying to say ARod is a good guy. Biggest narcissist I've ever seen. But Papi managed to get a pass on his actions from most fans. I don't dislike Ortiz because I think he used steroids; let's face it, baseball was more fun to watch when most were using- I dislike him because he's pulled the wool over so many people.
 
boog204 said:
Just to piggyback... Huge Yankee fan; have always disliked Ortiz but absolutely feared and respected him as a player. I've never understood how Boston fans could look the other way on his failings and revere him so. This is the same guy they were trying to run out of town a few years ago when he was hideous, the same guy who has made a fool of himself questioning official scorers, watching homeruns, not hustling, etc. and who failed the same drug test as ARod in 2004. Fun fact, ARod and Ortiz have failed the same amount of drug tests. Difference is ARod admitted his doings in 2004, Papi blamed it on some milkshakes and laughed it off. ARod becomes a steroid villain (obviously didn't help his case in subsequent years) Papi gets a pass. Not trying to say ARod is a good guy. Biggest narcissist I've ever seen. But Papi managed to get a pass on his actions from most fans. I don't dislike Ortiz because I think he used steroids; let's face it, baseball was more fun to watch when most were using- I dislike him because he's pulled the wool over so many people.
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Boston fans are willing to look the other way when it suits them. Brady. Belichick. Ortiz. They made excuses for Manny until he "became a cancer".

The guy was a Dan Hurley. And he's getting a bridge named after him?
 
I feel truly blessed to have been a UConn, Red Sox, and Patriots fan over the past 20 years. No one will convince me otherwise or make me feel bad about rooting for my favorite teams.

Suck it losers!
 
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mauconnfan said:
You mean you don't want their numbers to be what Papi's were prior to meeting Manny? Actually those are real good compared to the guy who played in the band box Hefty Bag park prior to finding his pal Manny.

Great career, exceptional just like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, ARod, Bagwell etc etc etc.actually hitting wise more clutch than most all of them. But he's still "them" like it or not! Hey Piazza made it in although he found did wear a glove too. He may make it, I guess they all will eventually.
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Even the league now says Ortiz may not have failed the one test he failed in 2003. He's been tested all along, including this year, where does this nonsense come from? Jealousy I suppose. Those who can't perform tearing down those who can.
 
Manfred addressed the complex part of Ortiz's legacy.

In 2009, Ortiz's name was leaked to The New York Times as one of the players who tested positive for PEDs in 2003 survey testing, which led to MLB's current drug-testing policy. Manfred noted there were several results that were scientifically indisputable at the time, but could not say whether Ortiz was among them because MLB agreed to keep results confidential and the results were subsequently destroyed.

"I do know that he's never been a positive at any point under our program [implemented in 2004]," said Manfred, who indicated he will meet with Ortiz in the Dominican Republic this winter to discuss a potential role as an ambassador for the league. "I think that the feeling was, at the time that name was leaked, that it was important to make people understand that even if your name was on that list that it was entirely possible that you were not a positive."
 
zyron said:
You can talk about Ortiz all you want. The only time I respond is when the Hall of Fame and he should be a first ballot HOF start. If I started a thread that ARod or Andy Pettitte should be in HOF do you think Red Sox fans would chime in?
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As a Sox fan, A-Rod to HOF....absolutely. No question about it. Pettitte? He's marginal based on performance. Borderline call really. But it's grossly unfair to lump Ortiz's one failure based on the overall pre-ban test in 2003 in with those who more clearly used and abused. Ortiz has been tested all along since they implemented testing and banned use, and has never failed one of those tests.

Most of those many test failures by players in 2003 were likely not steroids, but were for various products everyone could buy at GNC. There were dozens of over the counter supplements used widely by athletes and ordinary people that would result in a positive test. I'm not interested in condemning anyone for taking those supplements, even I did at times.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Even the league now says Ortiz may not have failed the one test he failed in 2003. He's been tested all along, including this year, where does this nonsense come from? Jealousy I suppose. Those who can't perform tearing down those who can.
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Of course they say that. They would be sued if they said they were sure. And you assume 99.99 percent of ball played are no longer using? I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Red Sox fan view of steroids: only A-Rod and perhaps some other Yankees used. If Manny did, it doesn't count because we got rid of him (even though we spent years delighting in "Manny being Manny").
 
I love how you guys act as though only Boston fans look the other way about these things.

News flash: fans of every team are willing to look the other way when it comes to players' faults. Several important Yankee players were juicers (Clemens, Giambi, Sheffield), and they were far from role models as well.

This is not a Boston-specific thing, as much as you salty New Yorkers want that to be the case.
 
David 76 said:
What bipolar thinking. Either the guy is a saint who never used steroids or he is a cancer among us?
As a Yankee fan, I feared and respected him. Maybe I was fooled, but he brought joy to the game. I like him.
But to protest that he never used steroids, that is a form of idolatry reserved for Boston. His own words don't leave room for doubt. He "accidentally" used "only what every other player was using" and"apologized" for being careless. For that, I will take Andy Pettitte any day
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You do realize that they were not just testing for steroids right? That hundreds of products available at GNC to the general public, and used by nearly every amateur and pro athlete, plus thousands of ordinary people, would trip that test? Now read his words in that context. He used what everyone used...yes...ordinary stuff from GNC that was later banned. He has specifically denied ever using steroids.

Anybody ever use Sudafed? Or any cold medicine containing Pseudoephedrine? Do you know that it will trigger a positive under the MLB or NFL tests? It's very easy for these guys to make a mistake. At this point, they can't ingest anything not provided by the team because it's so ridiculous.
 
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superjohn said:
Got it. Bonds, Clemens, ARod and Ortiz never juiced.
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Bonds juiced. Clemens juiced (the greatest pitcher in Red Sox history, who'd go into the HOF in a Boston cap). ARod juiced. There's no evidence that Ortiz juiced. Zero. He may or may not have failed a random test for hundreds of substances, but has not failed tests since implemented by MLB in 2004.
 
David Ortiz is a superstar and should be a lock for the hall of fame. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't being objective. The argument that he was only a Dan Hurley is weak at best.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
It's not worth saying something this dumb just to take a shot at a fanbase you don't like. Ortiz and Bonds? Haha.
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Of course Bonds and Ortiz used, at least half the league was using. Bonds never failed a MLB test for steroids. I don't like that the Red Sox fanbase looks the other way when it's one of their own. I would never do that with players from my favorite team, just call it straight.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
Even the league now says Ortiz may not have failed the one test he failed in 2003. He's been tested all along, including this year, where does this nonsense come from? Jealousy I suppose. Those who can't perform tearing down those who can.
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And to give the stock answer.... ARod has been tested like crazy his entire career and only failed one test; the same one Ortiz was reputed to. In fact, the last steroid "scandal" (Biogenesis) had exactly 0 failed tests amongst its suspended players. Those guys were done-in by a disgruntled worker. And maybe those results are disputed, there are 7 total players from that list who have been pretty reliably leaked.

1) ARod
2) Manny
3) Sosa
4) David Segui
5) Jason Grimsley
6) Larry Bigbie
7) Ortiz

The other 6 were either named by the Mitchell Report (Segui, Bigbie - outed as 2003 failures), failed a test (Manny, Sosa), were outed by a news organization (SI --> ARod, NYTimes --> Ortiz, Manny) or admitted to investigators that they were users (Grimsley). And various reports (again, who knows) state that 96 legitimately failed the test based on substances that were banned at the time. The other 8 used supplements that were not banned yet.
 
Huskybass said:
David Ortiz is a superstar and should be a lock for the hall of fame. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't being objective. The argument that he was only a Dan Hurley is weak at best.
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Absolutely agree... I think they should let the performance be the indicator and forget all of the rumors, etc. He's one of the "clutchest" hitters I've ever seen and has carried a team like few others have.
 
superjohn said:
Immune your character, bwahahaha.
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He has asked you to provide your reasons 20 times and you keep dodging the question. Why don't you stop running from the question and answer him.
 
Had to check back. When I first saw the @Kemba'sYogurt post it was obvious many pages of smack were about to be had. Great rivalry. Something UConn men's bb and football are missing.

And what is the significance of yogurt and Kemba?
 
Jerry1714 said:
He has asked you to provide your reasons 20 times and you keep dodging the question. Why don't you stop running from the question and answer him.
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Dodging and running from what? Ortiz is a user, he failed the test in 2003 and lied about not knowing he failed until 2009. He has had a persecution complex about it saying he has been tested more than any player in mlb. Arguing his case for several years to the press on why he's a Hall of Famer also strikes me as a guy who is only out for himself. He has interrupted press conferences to call out scorekeepers, he has gone after journalists who dared question him. When the going is good he comes across as a loose and jovial guy as soon as things are going badly or he's questioned he turns defensive as hell and nasty. I could go on and on about why I think he's a phony, Sammy Sosa was also once beloved and I saw through his act as well.
 
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Jerry1714 said:
You sure you want to know?
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LOL. It would be the only original information in this thread. The moment anything about professional sports for a New York or Boston team appears you get the same collection of supporters and detractors having a go at it. And the yardstick never moves. At least mice on a wheel get exercise. I guess finger movement is aerobic.
 
104 names on a list. And any one on it is under suspicion. Oh, except. Ortiz. You know he didn't. Because MLB said his test only showed legal substances? No, because they say he may not have used. It was (supposed to be) a confidential test. What do you think they would say?

No on is tougher on their own players than Yankee fans.
Mann's behavior would not have been tolerated in .NY.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Even the league now says Ortiz may not have failed the one test he failed in 2003. He's been tested all along, including this year, where does this nonsense come from? Jealousy I suppose. Those who can't perform tearing down those who can.
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Hilarious. They haven't caught Trumbo either. It's pretty simple but you guys continue to look the other day - first guy ever to perform like this at 40 and the first guy in the 500 HR club to hit 97% of his MR's after the age of 26 - Hmmmmmm if you don't get that you're just naive Hawk, great Husky fan, love you for sure but this is just unfounded how you treat the obvious. Hell ARod never tested positive either I should stick by him too huh? LOL
 
Huskybass said:
David Ortiz is a superstar and should be a lock for the hall of fame. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't being objective. The argument that he was only a Dan Hurley is weak at best.
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Even without steroids it's a very good argument and only a Sox fan would think otherwise. If you're not a pitcher you are asked to catch, throw, hit, run the bases and hit for power. He has 2 of 5 in his arsenal, a very below average fielder who doesn't even want to be out there., doesn't run out ground balls ever, an embarrassment. Great hitter since he found Manny and Fenway at 26 nothing at all to talk about prior. Great clutch hitter too, learned to be a professional hitter potentiall because he "saw the ball better after 2003" LOL

But if Bagwell, ARod, Clemens, Palmiero, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire get in then so should he, that I will agree with.
 
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