Big East expansion exercise approaching 2025…

[metsfan2323]

Too many fans look at short term success. It’s about eyes and markets. Boston is starving. New York / New England has a boatload of eyes and not too many teams to supply.
Again:
Holy Cross
St Bonaventure
St Joes
Fordham

What makes small school Holy Cross superior to flagship university UMASS? Is it just the fear that UMASS would eat our lunch in the long run or is there another reason?

Remember the reason we are adding a school is to add value to our TV contract.

and I agree recent short term success is way overrated.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Too many fans look at short term success. It’s about eyes and markets. Boston is starving. New York / New England has a boatload of eyes and not too many teams to supply.
Again:
Holy Cross
St Bonaventure
St Joes
Fordham

I love water, but I don't like watering the BE down.

 

[mikeinmanila]

Too many fans look at short term success. It’s about eyes and markets. Boston is starving. New York / New England has a boatload of eyes and not too many teams to supply.
Again:
Holy Cross
St Bonaventure
St Joes
Fordham

I like Holy Cross because it would sink BC even further to irrelevance, while enhancing UConn's profile in the Boston market. St. Bonaventure is interesting if they can capture upstate NY (over Syracuse). St Joes isn't happening (Villanova), nor is Fordham (St Johns).

 

[Richmondhsky]

then we're adding VCU:

• over 20k students in the 12th most populous state
• much better basketball history than UMass
• no pro teams in virginia and richmond is a bigger market than springfield
• contiguous with the original BE core and much closer than the 5 midwestern schools

VCU has >30,000 undergrads
Richmond is about the same as the Hartford to Springfield
VCU has sold out home games for something like ten years
Facilities are great, urban campus with a vibrant nightlife
Absolute rabid fan base

 

[Ricker]

I think a home and away round robin schedule should be valued more than it appears to be, even by the tv contract. Got to say I have no interest in anything that screws up that format.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Well after a quick scan, every single team mentioned is still as bad of an idea as they were 3 months ago...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

then we're adding VCU:

• over 20k students in the 12th most populous state
• much better basketball history than UMass
• no pro teams in virginia and richmond is a bigger market than springfield
• contiguous with the original BE core and much closer than the 5 midwestern schools

I don't hate VCU, but Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Georgetown say "hello" in the market, plus North Carolina has 4 P5 schools.

UMass has BCU in Massachusetts. BCU sucks and would get destroyed from a ratings standpoint in the Boston market.

 

[BPT2Storrs]

It will be interesting to see what happens with all this conference realignment. I think a lot of schools are in for a rude awakening thinking that a move to a better conference will lead to success. Ultimately it leads to more money but does that translate to wins? If success doesn’t happen is the money worth it? You will lose money elsewhere - donations, ticket sales, etc.

College athletics has always been based around rivalries. You can’t manufacture rivalries no matter how hard you try. They happen organically and in most cases are tired to location, culture, history.

 

[Vowelguy]

I don't hate VCU, but Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Georgetown say "hello" in the market, plus North Carolina has 4 P5 schools.

UMass has BCU in Massachusetts. BCU sucks and would get destroyed from a ratings standpoint in the Boston market.

College sports are a non-factor in Boston (outside of the Beanpot). So UMass dominating the ratings would mean they get a 0.2 rating compared to BC's 0.1.

 

[bendm]

I don't hate VCU, but Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Georgetown say "hello" in the market, plus North Carolina has 4 P5 schools.

UMass has BCU in Massachusetts. BCU sucks and would get destroyed from a ratings standpoint in the Boston market.

did everyone in your family go to umass or something this obsession is so baffling

 

[CL82]

By far UMASS is the best add for the Big East and the upcoming television contract negotiations (flagship university, 7 million state population). Yes we hate UMASS and they hate UCONN but that is what great rivalries are made of.

Adding UMASS also makes BCU more irrelevant than they already are which is nice.

How so? What do they add? The inability to fill their arena? The inability to drive ratings? Their lack of success in the NCAA tournament?

Don’t get me wrong, when I was in school UMass were rivals. I’d love to see a, well, I guess you can kind of call it a resurgence, but they have to forfeit all their wins and under the Squid? It would be great to have a regional rival, and UMass as another state school located next-door would be perfect, but today, they bring nothing to the table to the Big East conference other than another mouth to feed.

I’m all for expanding the big east, but whoever we add has to add value. I’m not sure that there really is anyone who does. Gonzaga is a good school, but they are a geographic nightmare for us. Those are the kinds of mistakes that were made in the old Big East that caused it to split.

 

[dennismenace]

It will be interesting to see what happens with all this conference realignment. I think a lot of schools are in for a rude awakening thinking that a move to a better conference will lead to success. Ultimately it leads to more money but does that translate to wins? If success doesn’t happen is the money worth it? You will lose money elsewhere - donations, ticket sales, etc.

College athletics has always been based around rivalries. You can’t manufacture rivalries no matter how hard you try. They happen organically and in most cases are tired to location, culture, history.

College athletics at one time might have been about rivalries. It is now about TV money and has been for quite awhile. Take a real good look at college football and what P5 money looks like. It is what it is.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I don't see expansion for quite a while, if ever. There needs to be logic involved with the move and there needs to be overall benefit to the conference as a whole with the addition. No school that could provide this would be available.

Adding a school that is within the original (pre-initial ACC raid) footprint of the BE would make zero sense logically as we already have an ideal six school eastern division. Any school that could provide sufficient financial and/or improvement in image that geographically sits within that footprint already is in a better conference situation than the BE could offer.

The problem with adding a midwest school is that the only legitimate candidates are deficient in profile (St Louis , Wichita St), or are deficient and also overlap a current market (Loyola Chicago).

Expansion won't make sense as things currently stand.

 

[metsfan2323]

How so? What do they add?

It's about potential. UCONN was a doormat when Calhoun took over in 86. What UCONN did have in 86 was flagship university in the Big East Conference. Calhoun saw the potential.

Upgrade UMASS to Big East status and they have the same potential. Suppose UMASS were upgraded and they hired Pitino. You know what would happen.

Without question the best add for the television contract is UMASS, they might get blocked but its only because of fear.

 

[CL82]

It's about potential. UCONN was a doormat when Calhoun took over in 86. What UCONN did have in 86 was flagship university in the Big East Conference. Calhoun saw the potential.

Upgrade UMASS to Big East status and they have the same potential. Suppose UMASS were upgraded and they hired Pitino. You know what would happen.

Without question the best add for the television contract is UMASS, they might get blocked but its only because of fear.

You are confusing “potential“ with “magic thinking.“ Explain to me the basis for why you think UMass has “potential.” Saying “well UConn got better over its tenure in the Big East and eventually one for national championships therefore UMass will do the same thing” really makes zero sense whatsoever. That doesn’t make any case better case for UMass than any other college in the country. By that same “logic“ you could say that Central Connecticut should be given a Big East invite because win UConn got one it went on to win four national championships. If that were true wouldn’t every team currently in the Big East have national championships?

So, let me ask again, what evidence do you see that UMass can be anything more than its historic mediocre self? Are they packing their arena? Do they draw ratings on TV? Have they had consistent success in the NCAA tournament? If the answer to those questions is “no“, and it is, then the answer to the question as to whether or not they should get an invite is also no.

By the way, as you really ought to know, UConn was a good regional program before joining the Big East with enormous fan support prior to joining the Big East. That was part of the reason Jim Calhoun came here. You seem to think it’s history begin with the Dom Perno years. It doesn’t.

As I noted before, however, I would be in favor of UMass joining the Big East conference if it actually added anything. So, if it wants to upgrade facilities, somehow generate fan support, improve its level of play, and hire better coaches, etc. by all means it should do so, but it needs to do at least most of that prior to getting the invite.

 

[metsfan2323]

In fairness maybe blocking UMASS out of fear is the right thing to do. USF wanted UCF blocked because of fear and eventually UCF did eat USF's lunch. USF's worst nightmare came true. We just lose the right to mock BCU for blocking us. We're no better.

 

[metsfan2323]

If i'm in blocking mode I agree VCU is the best add for the Big East.

 

[CL82]

In fairness maybe blocking UMASS out of fear is the right thing to do. USF wanted UCF blocked because of fear and eventually UCF did eat USF's lunch. USF's worst nightmare came true. We just lose the right to mock BCU for blocking us. We're no better.

You are in ability to list a single criteria by which you mess deserves an invite doesn’t mean that the rest of the world is “blocking it out of fear.“ Do you understand the difference?

So again, list your reasons why it is a better candidate than anyone else in the country. If you can’t do that, maybe it’s time to stop beating this dead horse?

 

[Ha Who]

You are confusing “potential“ with “magic thinking.“ Explain to me the basis for why you think UMass has “potential.” Saying “well UConn got better over its tenure in the Big East and eventually one for national championships therefore UMass will do the same thing” really makes zero sense whatsoever. That doesn’t make any case better case for UMass than any other college in the country. By that same “logic“ you could say that Central Connecticut should be given a Big East invite because win UConn got one it went on to win four national championships. If that were true wouldn’t every team currently in the Big East have national championships?

So, let me ask again, what evidence do you see that UMass can be anything more than its historic mediocre self? Are they packing their arena? Do they draw ratings on TV? Have they had consistent success in the NCAA tournament? If the answer to those questions is “no“, and it is, then the answer to the question as to whether or not they should get an invite is also no.

By the way, as you really ought to know, UConn was a good regional program before joining the Big East with enormous fan support prior to joining the Big East. That was part of the reason Jim Calhoun came here. You seem to think it’s history begin with the Dom Perno years. It doesn’t.

As I noted before, however, I would be in favor of UMass joining the Big East conference if it actually added anything. So, if it wants to upgrade facilities, somehow generate fan support, improve its level of play, and hire better coaches, etc. by all means it should do so, but it needs to do at least most of that prior to getting the invite.

I think it is time to ignore illogical posters, you agree?

 

[CL82]

I think it is time to ignore illogical posters, you agree?

Well, if we all agreed to do that The Boneyard would be a series of one post threads….

 

[bobbyinaz]

I don't see expansion for quite a while, if ever. There needs to be logic involved with the move and there needs to be overall benefit to the conference as a whole with the addition. No school that could provide this would be available.

Adding a school that is within the original (pre-initial ACC raid) footprint of the BE would make zero sense logically as we already have an ideal six school eastern division. Any school that could provide sufficient financial and/or improvement in image that geographically sits within that footprint already is in a better conference situation than the BE could offer.

The problem with adding a midwest school is that the only legitimate candidates are deficient in profile (St Louis , Wichita St), or are deficient and also overlap a current market (Loyola Chicago).

Expansion won't make sense as things currently stand.

The only reason to consider expansion is if FOX or another potential TV partner says the only way payouts increase is if inventory increases as well. At that point FOX or whomever the new suitor is will dictate what schools to add

 

[Urcea]

being completely serious Vermont is a better add for the BE than umass by a lot (and that doesn't make sense either)

 

[Vowelguy]

I didnt think there could be a worse take in this thread.

being completely serious Vermont is a better add for the BE than umass by a lot (and that doesn't make sense either)

I stand corrected.

 

[Kolumbo]

There are at least 240,000 living UMass alums, many of them in the northeast. There is also no Big East team in Massachusetts, the 15th largest state in the country. There is only one other major conference program in Massachusetts, and that is the BCU dumpster fire. UMass is a rising program academically, only ranked a few spots below UConn in US News. Finally, UMass has been successful at basketball in the past.

If you can find me a large school:

• with lots of alums in a Top 15 population state
• that has decent basketball history
• doesn't have strong competition in its media market and
• is within the Big East footprint,

Then add that school instead.

No basketball success, but another large school that hits 3 of 4. The Big XII just added UCF so. . .

 

[Kolumbo]

I don't hate VCU, but Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Georgetown say "hello" in the market, plus North Carolina has 4 P5 schools.

UMass has BCU in Massachusetts. BCU sucks and would get destroyed from a ratings standpoint in the Boston market.

Half the Big East is in the middle of B1G country so I think VCU is a good add despite UVA. DC and Richmond are far enough apart and Georgetown hasn't been carrying its load anyway.

 

[metsfan2323]

You are in ability to list a single criteria by which you mess deserves an invite

Complete BS. I have stated over and over again in this thread why I think they would be the best addition for the conference.

Gives UCONN a local conference rival. Will fill both arenas as fanbases will travel.
Flagship university, twice the population of CT (we are adding for the TV contract right?)
Their fanbase has proven they will show-up when given a reason to (see 1990's). (no different than our fanbase)
Restore the original Big East footprint.
Adding UMASS weakens BCU in their own state.

 

[CL82]

Complete BS. I have stated over and over again in this thread why I think they would be the best addition for the conference.

Gives UCONN a local conference rival. Will fill both arenas as fanbases will travel.
Flagship university, twice the population of CT (we are adding for the TV contract right?)
Their fanbase has proven they will show-up when given a reason to (see 1990's). (no different than our fanbase)
Restore the original Big East footprint.
Adding UMASS weakens BCU in their own state.

Central would give UConn an even more local rival. Why are they a better candidate? BU would restore the original footprint and there addition would "weaken BCU" as well as .much as UMass would (which is pretty much not at all by the way.) Why aren't they the choice?

Yes Massachusetts has people living in it. Is there any evidence at all that any material number of them want to watch UMass? (Here's a hint check the ratings of UMass games and realize the answer is no.)

So, no, you haven't provided any realistic reason that UMass should be invited.

This is such a dumb hill for you to die on.

 

[metsfan2323]

Central would give UConn an even more local rival. Why are they a better candidate?

You lose all credibility and the debate when you write something that stupid. You should go back to I haven't given any reasons to add UMASS. That was dumb too (because I have over and over again), but not this dumb.

 

[CL82]

You lose all credibility and the debate when you write something that stupid. You should go back to I haven't given any reasons to add UMASS. That was dumb too (because I have over and over again), but not this dumb.

You still haven't. I mean you understand that right? Imagining that something will happen is not proof that is will happen. I am beginning to believe that you actually don't don't understand the difference.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The only reason to consider expansion is if FOX or another potential TV partner says the only way payouts increase is if inventory increases as well. At that point FOX or whomever the new suitor is will dictate what schools to add

Yes but, there really won't be a material inventory increase in terms of quantity if another school is added. In terms of quality of the inventory increase, I stand behind my belief that no school that could provide this is available and willing.