Big East expansion exercise approaching 2025… | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Big East expansion exercise approaching 2025…

Kansas, Norte Dame and WVU. Otherwise hard pass on any other school. These are the only brands that increase the per school value of the media payout. Could the NBE land these school? Doubtful, because they make way more in their current situation.

Does FOX pay us more (per school) for adding Temple, SLU, Dayton, etc.? Doubtful. So why would we want to dilute ourselves?

Re-alignment is all about additive value to the bottom line of the networks and the universities. Just because fox wants more schools to increase the revenue on their end, if it doesn’t give more money to each institution as well, then I hope Val has the spine to tell them to F off.
 
navery12 said:
Keep it at 11. The round robin, playing every team twice a year is perfect
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I couldn't care less about the double round robin. Strength and perception of the league is paramount.

Get 12 teams with Gonzaga, reduce the number of league games to 18 (only 9 teams have to travel to Spokane per year). 20 league games is a bit excessive. Play every team once and most teams twice -- set up traditional rivalries that play twice every year, plus rotate others through.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
I couldn't care less about the double round robin. Strength and perception of the league is paramount.

Get 12 teams with Gonzaga, reduce the number of league games to 18 (only 9 teams have to travel to Spokane per year). 20 league games is a bit excessive. Play every team once and most teams twice -- set up traditional rivalries that play twice every year, plus rotate others through.
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I think we should stay with 20 games. However, going to 12 teams by adding Gonzaga while keeping the 20 game schedule could result in regularly get 7 bids as opposed to probably 5 currently.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
I couldn't care less about the double round robin. Strength and perception of the league is paramount.

Get 12 teams with Gonzaga, reduce the number of league games to 18 (only 9 teams have to travel to Spokane per year). 20 league games is a bit excessive. Play every team once and most teams twice -- set up traditional rivalries that play twice every year, plus rotate others through.
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Sure if we can get Gonzaga then that's fine and 12 teams improves the conference. Same would apply to Kansas. But there's 0 chance of either of those teams joining the Big East for all of the reasons already mentioned in this thread.
 
fleudslipcon said:
This is the only plausible suggestion. It would be a good suggestion if the BE has leverage. It doesn't. If anything this announcement lets the schools we would want to play against know the BE is in a financial bind and thus can set terms favorable to themselves.

This is not good news for the BE or for UConn. Viewership matters and I would consider the option of uniting all the conferences minus the P5 and proactively leveraging a tv deal with a major network with this group. The sum of all that viewership will be greater than the individual components. A value will have to be given to how it's divided based on some combination of viewership, success, sports programs and so forth. I doubt it could be achieved but otherwise the clock is ticking for most of these conferences.
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Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this assessment.

The BE has been quite a success story for Fox Sports. The ratings were higher than they forecasted and have been going up every year since (I don’t know how the pandemic affected things though). Although picking up games from the B10/P12/etc, the BE is still the backbone of their channels during this season and they can’t just back fill 100+primetime slots that they’d miss without the BE. From what I understand, both Fox Sports and the BE are very satisfied with the product and have a great partnership.

By trying to “leverage” power with conferences outside the six high majors, the BE would be doing itself a grave injustice and only hurt themselves. Few schools, other than Gonzaga and a few other strong schools in mid major conferences, would draw more eyeballs and thus would weaken the position UConn and the BE are in.

The scheduling alliance seems intriguing, since you could schedule with those few schools that can draw viewers, but not have to worry about dragging along everyone else that goes with the mid major conferences. That’s the only way it’s a win-win plan that wouldn’t hurt the BE.
 
A 12 member conference means two six school divisions. Considering the proximity of UConn, PC, St John's, SH, Nova and Georgetown to each other and their proximity to the remainder of the conference, that will be one of th he two divisions. A twelfth member will be no further east than slightly east of Xavier but more likely somewhere that bridges Creighton to the remaining western half of the BE. That school also needs to have a men's basketball profile that would help the conference as a whole (be in ttb e upper half of the conference in terms of identity).

Not sure there are any realistic candidates (I don't believe Kansas is a realistic candidate).
 
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navery12 said:
Sure if we can get Gonzaga then that's fine and 12 teams improves the conference. Same would apply to Kansas. But there's 0 chance of either of those teams joining the Big East for all of the reasons already mentioned in this thread.
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I wouldn't say zero for Gonzaga. They've already discussed it with mutual interest in the past... they just couldn't get over the distance at the time. However, with the move to larger conferences and the scheduling alliances being set up, etc, maybe there's enough incentive to get over the hump and get creative this time.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
A 12 member conference means two six school divisions. Considering the proximity of UConn, PC, St John's, SH, Nova and Georgetown to each other and their proximity to the remainder of the conference, that will be one of th he two divisions. A twelfth member will be no further east than slightly east of Xavier but more likely somewhere that bridges Creighton to the remaining western half of the BE. That school also needs to have a men's basketball profile that would help the conference as a whole (be in ttb e upper half of the conference in terms of identity).

Not sure there are any realistic candidates (I don't believe Kansas is a realistic candidate).
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Depaul?
 
MU in MKE said:
I wouldn't say zero for Gonzaga. They've already discussed it with mutual interest in the past... they just couldn't get over the distance at the time. However, with the move to larger conferences and the scheduling alliances being set up, etc, maybe there's enough incentive to get over the hump and get creative this time.
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If the Fox money is right they will be added.
 
MU in MKE said:
I wouldn't say zero for Gonzaga. They've already discussed it with mutual interest in the past... they just couldn't get over the distance at the time. However, with the move to larger conferences and the scheduling alliances being set up, etc, maybe there's enough incentive to get over the hump and get creative this time.
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Interesting. Is it that the difference has lessened or that airplanes have gotten significantly faster?

Look, is there an amount that would cause the eastern schools to have to deal with non-revenue teams having to travel to Spokane occasionally? Sure there is. There's a price for almost anything. But the extra amount each school might get for adding the Zags isn't going to come near covering it.
 
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businesslawyer said:
Interesting. Is it that the difference has lessened or that airplanes have gotten significantly faster?

Look, is there an amount that would cause the eastern schools to have to deal with non-revenue teams having to travel to Spokane occasionally? Sure there is. There's a price for almost anything. But the extra amount each school might get for adding the Zags isn't going to come near covering it.
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A lot of non-revenue sports won't even exist in the future or will become club teams.
 
superjohn said:
A lot of non-revenue sports won't even exist in the future or will become club teams.
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I agree. The NCAA convention could very well lower the threshold for the number of sports needed to be D-1 while keeping the barrier to entry of a conference invitation. They could also allow football-only conferences at the FBS level.
 
dennismenace said:
It makes all the $ense in the world.
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But does it? More mouths to feed with lower values, so payouts are diluted, more travel, meh on the court excitement factors. I'll pass, thank you. I'd much rather be able to schedule OOC and in-season tournament games in the top recruiting areas, create increased excitement and eyeballs, etc.
 
Didn't see this article posted yet...

adimeback.com

Big East Realignment — Don’t Overthink It, It’s Gonzaga or Nobody - A Dime Back

Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman made Big East expansion news yesterday, by way of two tweets from Dana O’Neil. In the first, Ackerman says she will ask the Big East presidents to consider expansion in light of the 2025 expiration of the league’s TV deal with Fox. “What school helps with our...
adimeback.com adimeback.com
 
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superjohn said:
Your first mistake, never say "never, ever" in conference realignment. Kansas may not have a choice, I don't see the Big 12 existing down the road.
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I am comfortable with never, ever in this case. If the Big 12 doesn't exist it's because it got raided and KU is at the top of that list. While it exists, it's still a much better option than the Big East.
 
We’re not a fit for a mid west power conference with a solid Eastern foot hold , but we should add teams
from the West Coast. The logic is mind boggling.
Gonzaga best options if they choose are:
Besides the PAC is if the Big 12 adds Boise than Gonzaga as a basketball only its a remote but their next best possible option,that’s a huge step up financially but little incentive for the B12 simalar to the PAC
If not the logical step up is the MW.
Going from a single bid conference to a multiple bid does increase revenue. It also makes the MW more attractive to basketball oriented schools from certain other conferences.
That’s a win win
As for the Big East the most logical all pretty much duplicate existing markets . Dayton /Xavier Temple:/Nova
Except St Louis whose who is iffy but besides them
The A10 pretty much mirrors the Big East
except Davidson
Another probable is WSU
which UConn owes a favor.
They joined the AAC in large part because of us and we left.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
The entire A10 TV package is what, $10M total? There is a reason for that.
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A10 BB pays $4.5 million a year for the whole conference.
Actually If I were Aresco I would lock up Dayton and VCU
Dayton is too close to Cinncy
and VCU is close to DC for the Big East
But they would be perfect for AAC consideration
 
Tenspro2002 said:
I couldn't care less about the double round robin. Strength and perception of the league is paramount.

Get 12 teams with Gonzaga, reduce the number of league games to 18 (only 9 teams have to travel to Spokane per year). 20 league games is a bit excessive. Play every team once and most teams twice -- set up traditional rivalries that play twice every year, plus rotate others through.
Expand ...
It's really not about the travel to Spokane but the amount of miles Gonzaga would have to log.
 
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of course, it is Gonzaga on a short list.

and YOU could do double headers for them that cuts a percentage of their Eastern travel. Say 2 games in Chicago together at Depaul's new arena; or Villanova double; or MSG.

What would really be great before 2025? How bout Big City Saint John's and Depaul getting far better. That would be the bananas. Georgetown too. Names. Nostalgia. That is what we are getting and ... if the BE numbers are damn good; the horizon would be outstanding if those 3 leap.
 
superjohn said:
I guess I don't get why you're inflating Wichita and selling Gonzaga short. They aren't at all on the same footing...

Gonzaga recruits nationally/internationally and Seattle is a basketball hotbed. Who cares that Gonzaga is a small Catholic private school and not a flagship state University? The Big East is a league of small Catholic private basketball schools. UConn is the only state flagship University in the league.

The only hurdle is geography which could be fixed with creative scheduling and figuring out what to do with non-revenue sports. I can't believe anyone wouldn't want them for their basketball and brand. They are one of the best programs in the country and a national brand.
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i think these responses are still beside storrs' point.

everyone appreciates the value of adding a mark few-coached gonzaga program, plus the BE would probably get rid of the round robin meaning the other 11 teams all wouldnt even need to travel to spokane every year. regardless, those travel costs are well worth the cache the zags bring.

but storrs' legitimate concern is what happens to the zags after few leaves/retires? are they wholly dependant on few or are they a blue blood that can stay at an elite level regardless of who the coach is? we dont know b/c it hasnt happened yet.

for all the reasons storrs gave i dont think they compare favorably to UK or Duke or UNC or Nova etc. and it's very possible that they could eventually become a BE bottom dweller like depaul except theyre 2000 miles away from the heart of the conference. that would be a drag.

the retort to that is who cares- we should add them now and reap the benefits of having gonzaga nova and uconn in the same league for the next decade and worry about them collapsing later because who knows if the BE will even exist.
 
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bendm said:
i think these responses are still beside storrs' point.

everyone appreciates the value of adding a mark few-coached gonzaga program, plus the BE would probably get rid of the round robin meaning the other 11 teams all wouldnt even need to travel to spokane every year. regardless, those travel costs are well worth the cache the zags bring.

but storrs' legitimate concern is what happens to the zags after few leaves/retires? are they wholly dependant on few or are they a blue blood that can stay at an elite level regardless of who the coach is? we dont know b/c it hasnt happened yet.

for all the reasons storrs gave i dont think they compare favorably to UK or Duke or UNC or Nova etc. and it's very possible that they could eventually become a BE bottom dweller like depaul except theyre 2000 miles away from the heart of the conference. that would be a drag.

the retort to that is who cares- we should add them now and reap the benefits of having gonzaga nova and uconn in the same league for the next decade and worry about them collapsing later because who knows if the BE will even exist.
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That's pretty much it. DePaul being a drag is one thing, having to travel 3,000 miles for a bad opponent sounds like a mess and waste.

If you can guarantee Few is at Gonzaga for the next 10-15 years then it is worth the investment.

But forget my citing of the DUI earlier on questioning Few's judgement. UNC and Duke likely just hired two duds as coaches. What are the chances that with K and Roy out of the picture in the hiring process and both programs dwindling in mediocrity by 2025 they don't approach Few to triple his current salary?

I contend it is Few recruiting nationally, recruiting internationally and not Gonzaga. Even if Seattle has a decent HS talent pool, they'd be competing against UC system, UW, and UO if a new coach had to come in and try to continue what Few created. Larger arenas, same to better facilities, larger pool of resources to work from and no future HOF coach.

It could work in the end if they pull the trigger it is just a risky proposition.

The same questions were asked of UConn when Calhoun left but has a lot more going for it to make it an advantageous place to succeed in the long run and believe Hurley has started to silence the naysayers.
 
AZHuskiePop said:
We’re not a fit for a mid west power conference with a solid Eastern foot hold , but we should add teams
from the West Coast. The logic is mind boggling.
Gonzaga best options if they choose are:
Besides the PAC is if the Big 12 adds Boise than Gonzaga as a basketball only its a remote but their next best possible option,that’s a huge step up financially but little incentive for the B12 simalar to the PAC
If not the logical step up is the MW.
Going from a single bid conference to a multiple bid does increase revenue. It also makes the MW more attractive to basketball oriented schools from certain other conferences.
That’s a win win
As for the Big East the most logical all pretty much duplicate existing markets . Dayton /Xavier Temple:/Nova
Except St Louis whose who is iffy but besides them
The A10 pretty much mirrors the Big East
except Davidson
Another probable is WSU
which UConn owes a favor.
They joined the AAC in large part because of us and we left.
Expand ...
Agree with a lot of your logic ^, except when it comes to conference realignment we owe no one any favors.
 
It seems fox is saying they aren’t gunna pay much more than they are unless a bigger market is brought in. I think St. Louis solves that. But Gonzaga having a scheduling alliance like 1 or 2 big East teams a year will also be ok.
 
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