Big East Awards Announced - Sanogo and Hawkins All Big East First Team (Merged Threads) | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Big East Awards Announced - Sanogo and Hawkins All Big East First Team (Merged Threads)

Jackson is a great defender but he gambles a ton, sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn’t.

It was going to be hard to dethrone Kalkbrenner, but this is pure bulletin board material. PC also shut out of the awards too noticeably.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
That doesn't include POY or FOY.

Edit: they also weren't giving Hawkins Most Improved while also giving him 1st team selection.
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Why not? That's how he got to be worthy of First Team.
 
I don’t disagree about kolek but why would he be a lock over Sanogo? Sanogo was the bE player of the year to start the season so usually it’s in his hands to lose - what has he done wrong to lose it? Kolek has been that amazing?
 
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JB75 said:
I don’t disagree about kolek but why would he be a lock over Sanogo? Sanogo was the bE player of the year to start the season so usually it’s in his hands to lose - what has he done wrong to lose it? Kolek has been that amazing?
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Yes, Kolek has
 
JB75 said:
I don’t disagree about kolek but why would he be a lock over Sanogo? Sanogo was the bE player of the year to start the season so usually it’s in his hands to lose - what has he done wrong to lose it? Kolek has been that amazing?
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Because Kolek's team easily won the conference and his #'s are much better than Sanogo's.
 
JB75 said:
I don’t disagree about kolek but why would he be a lock over Sanogo? Sanogo was the bE player of the year to start the season so usually it’s in his hands to lose - what has he done wrong to lose it? Kolek has been that amazing?
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Sanogo (at best) finished 3rd. Hopkins ahead of him too.
 
JB75 said:
Kalkbrenner also got destroyed by Adama in BOTH of thier head to head matchups. Especially the first one
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correct and Soriano didn't. Soriano outplayed Sanogo in the first matchup, but not by a lot and Sanogo outplayed Soriano in the 2nd matchup, but not by a lot.
 
JB75 said:
I don’t disagree about kolek but why would he be a lock over Sanogo? Sanogo was the bE player of the year to start the season so usually it’s in his hands to lose - what has he done wrong to lose it? Kolek has been that amazing?
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I wouldn't look at it from the perspective that Sanogo lost it because Sanogo so far has had a great season. I would look at it like Kolek took it with his great season and Marquette won the BE regular season title outright. If Sanogo won BE POY, I wouldn't agree with it, but it wouldn't be some big outrage either.

Alabama has the most valuable win of the season winning at Houston. In the same way, Marquette has the most valuable win in BE play by winning at Creighton.
 
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JT-55 said:
Kalkbrenner should not have won DPOY
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Kalkbrenner DPOY, I just don’t get it. Watched several Creighton games this year and while he is a good player, we have 2 guys just on our team that are better defensively than he is, Sanogo and Ajax, not to mention guys from other teams like Soriano or Carter who I think are as tough as they come. Don’t think Kalk does anything special defensively, especially with his primary responsibility.

This led me to peek at some box scores for Kalk to get a better feel for his heads up play against some of the more notable players. By no means is this an exhaustive study but it does confirm what I suspected and what I saw with my own eyes and that is he is not a lock down defender against his primary guard heads up. Only points listed.

Soriano - 17 points, 15 Points
Ighodaro - 18 points
Sonogo - 26 points, 17 points
Wahab – 14 points (averages 10)
Nebraska Center – 22 points
My favorite – Dixon – 31 Points, 20 Points

Games he missed (Better?):
Ighodaro - 16 points (less than when Kalk played)
BYU Center – 5 points (Avg. 5)
Ari. State Center – 7 points (Avg. 9.3)

I am sure he had some good games like holding Nunge to 15 & 9 (averages 14), and he is good at help side D (Avg. 2.2 blocks), but do these numbers even remotely add up to DPOY? I think not, and didn’t think so last year either.
 
Malamute said:
Kalkbrenner DPOY, I just don’t get it. Watched several Creighton games this year and while he is a good player, we have 2 guys just on our team that are better defensively than he is, Sanogo and Ajax, not to mention guys from other teams like Soriano or Carter who I think are as tough as they come. Don’t think Kalk does anything special defensively, especially with his primary responsibility.

This led me to peek at some box scores for Kalk to get a better feel for his heads up play against some of the more notable players. By no means is this an exhaustive study but it does confirm what I suspected and what I saw with my own eyes and that is he is not a lock down defender against his primary guard heads up. Only points listed.

Soriano - 17 points, 15 Points
Ighodaro - 18 points
Sonogo - 26 points, 17 points
Wahab – 14 points (averages 10)
Nebraska Center – 22 points
My favorite – Dixon – 31 Points, 20 Points

Games he missed (Better?):
Ighodaro - 16 points (less than when Kalk played)
BYU Center – 5 points (Avg. 5)
Ari. State Center – 7 points (Avg. 9.3)

I am sure he had some good games like holding Nunge to 15 & 9 (averages 14), and he is good at help side D (Avg. 2.2 blocks), but do these numbers even remotely add up to DPOY? I think not, and didn’t think so last year either.
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Teams get to the rim a lot less when Kalkbrenner is in the game. 36% of shots at rim with him in vs. 45% when he's out. Which leads to teams taking a lot more midrange 2s when he's in (34%) vs. out (25%). One of the big reasons their defense is top 10 in the country.

For comparison, UConn is at 44% opp attempts at the rim whether Sanogo is in or out (but they shoot worse at rim when Sanogo is out because Clingan is a monster). John's defense overall is significantly better when Soriano is off the court. Opponents shoot better from every level with him in the game (some of that is noise, but there's definitely no evidence he's a difference making defender).
 
Malamute said:
Kalkbrenner DPOY, I just don’t get it. Watched several Creighton games this year and while he is a good player, we have 2 guys just on our team that are better defensively than he is, Sanogo and Ajax, not to mention guys from other teams like Soriano or Carter who I think are as tough as they come. Don’t think Kalk does anything special defensively, especially with his primary responsibility.

This led me to peek at some box scores for Kalk to get a better feel for his heads up play against some of the more notable players. By no means is this an exhaustive study but it does confirm what I suspected and what I saw with my own eyes and that is he is not a lock down defender against his primary guard heads up. Only points listed.

Soriano - 17 points, 15 Points
Ighodaro - 18 points
Sonogo - 26 points, 17 points
Wahab – 14 points (averages 10)
Nebraska Center – 22 points
My favorite – Dixon – 31 Points, 20 Points

Games he missed (Better?):
Ighodaro - 16 points (less than when Kalk played)
BYU Center – 5 points (Avg. 5)
Ari. State Center – 7 points (Avg. 9.3)

I am sure he had some good games like holding Nunge to 15 & 9 (averages 14), and he is good at help side D (Avg. 2.2 blocks), but do these numbers even remotely add up to DPOY? I think not, and didn’t think so last year either.
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Yeah. I agree. I was shocked when I saw him get nominated. I mean two of Creighton‘s biggest games of the year he got dominated by our guy- that shud have cancelled him off the list immediately
 
auror said:
Teams get to the rim a lot less when Kalkbrenner is in the game. 36% of shots at rim with him in vs. 45% when he's out. Which leads to teams taking a lot more midrange 2s when he's in (34%) vs. out (25%). One of the big reasons their defense is top 10 in the country.

For comparison, UConn is at 44% opp attempts at the rim whether Sanogo is in or out (but they shoot worse at rim when Sanogo is out because Clingan is a monster). John's defense overall is significantly better when Soriano is off the court. Opponents shoot better from every level with him in the game (some of that is noise, but there's definitely no evidence he's a difference making defender).
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Always good to hear another take, I do appreciate it, but at the end of the day when I watch him I do not remotely think great defensive player. He is just ok guarding his own guy (primary role) but the computers say he is good helping others (secondary role), which is great but doesn’t make him best in league. To me this combination makes him average to slightly above.
 
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I think it should've been Carter, but wouldn't have argued over Jackson or Mitchell. Kalkbrenner didn't seem as for defensively this year as last. His big thing was 2.5 blocks in conference play, but Carter had 1.4 as a guard.

Also, Carter, Jackson, and Mitchell all guarded multiple positions well, increasing their value.
 
Friarsnoop said:
I think it should've been Carter, but wouldn't have argued over Jackson or Mitchell. Kalkbrenner didn't seem as for defensively this year as last. His big thing was 2.5 blocks in conference play, but Carter had 1.4 as a guard.

Also, Carter, Jackson, and Mitchell all guarded multiple positions well, increasing their value.
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Carter is an absolute menace on defense and shut his man's offense down. Donny Marshall chose him as his DBEPOY. I wouldn't have complained if he got the award, however I think Kalkbrenner is a defender opposing teams have to scheme around. Creighton fouls the least of any team in the country I believe and a big reason for that is because the other defenders can play more aggressively and not come close to fouling if their man gets a step on them.
 
Malamute said:
Always good to hear another take, I do appreciate it, but at the end of the day when I watch him I do not remotely think great defensive player. He is just ok guarding his own guy (primary role) but the computers say he is good helping others (secondary role), which is great but doesn’t make him best in league. To me this combination makes him average to slightly above.
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His impact is much better than average overall. You can say his man to man is average at best but he is out there to help when not away from the basket. While he blocks shots at a very good ratio versus his minutes, he changes just as many as well as changing minds of those who go to the basket.

Ultimately he's well above average and with work on his footwork, staying on the floor on ball fakes he will be an absolute menace moving forward.
 
mauconnfan said:
His impact is much better than average overall. You can say his man to man is average at best but he is out there to help when not away from the basket. While he blocks shots at a very good ratio versus his minutes, he changes just as many as well as changing minds of those who go to the basket.

Ultimately he's well above average and with work on his footwork, staying on the floor on ball fakes he will be an absolute menace moving forward.
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Obviously no bias as a Friar fan, but I think the only advantage Kalkbrenner has on Clingan is experience. Clingan is much more disruptive, IMO.
 
Friarsnoop said:
Obviously no bias as a Friar fan, but I think the only advantage Kalkbrenner has on Clingan is experience. Clingan is much more disruptive, IMO.
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A lot of it is risk taking. Clingan goes for every block while Kalkbrenner plays straight up a lot. Less fouls for Kalk (literally 1/3 of his foul rate per 40). More activity for Clingan. The freedom of being the backup. Clingan will have to either tone it down or we'll need a really competent backup next year.
 
auror said:
A lot of it is risk taking. Clingan goes for every block while Kalkbrenner plays straight up a lot. Less fouls for Kalk (literally 1/3 of his foul rate per 40). More activity for Clingan. The freedom of being the backup. Clingan will have to either tone it down or we'll need a really competent backup next year.
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As an aside, I'd have Clingan study Jake Stephens of Chattanooga on offense. That should be his upside goal.
 
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auror said:
A lot of it is risk taking. Clingan goes for every block while Kalkbrenner plays straight up a lot. Less fouls for Kalk (literally 1/3 of his foul rate per 40). More activity for Clingan. The freedom of being the backup. Clingan will have to either tone it down or we'll need a really competent backup next year.
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I agree with this
I also just do not understand how a guy like Kalk wins DPOY with his rebounding numbers. Like if you’re shutting down guys, I get it. But he seems to be a really good help defender who doesn’t make a ton of splash plays & also rebounds slightly below average for a guy his size
 
MDHuskFan said:
I agree with this
I also just do not understand how a guy like Kalk wins DPOY with his rebounding numbers. Like if you’re shutting down guys, I get it. But he seems to be a really good help defender who doesn’t make a ton of splash plays & also rebounds slightly below average for a guy his size
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Once again, we can dive into the on/off stats and eye test. Kaklbrenner boxes dudes out. Clears out for Scheierman or Kaluma or whomever to grab the board. Since he doesn't overextend gambling for blocks, he's usually in position to box. His team grabs substantially more defensive rebounds as a % when he's in the game vs. off. Compare that to Scheierman or Soriano, for example, and despite them having gaudy rebound numbers, their teams grab similar amounts of rebounds whether they are in the game or not. And the team numbers are much worse than Kalkbrenner's.
 
Last edited:
auror said:
Teams get to the rim a lot less when Kalkbrenner is in the game. 36% of shots at rim with him in vs. 45% when he's out. Which leads to teams taking a lot more midrange 2s when he's in (34%) vs. out (25%). One of the big reasons their defense is top 10 in the country.

For comparison, UConn is at 44% opp attempts at the rim whether Sanogo is in or out (but they shoot worse at rim when Sanogo is out because Clingan is a monster). John's defense overall is significantly better when Soriano is off the court. Opponents shoot better from every level with him in the game (some of that is noise, but there's definitely no evidence he's a difference making defender).
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You really missed the boat when you registered for this site and didnt pick "Pythagoras" as your username. Oh well, too late to screw with the mojo this year but in the offseason I will put you in touch with BigRed and he can change it for you so you can keep your likes and post counts.


Confused No Idea GIF by G2 Esports
 
ToolzieFan said:
I “liked” this before realizing it meant Clingan was not unanimous. Let’s hope it provides just a little more motivation, although I’m sure none is needed. I’m so happy for both these guys, and for the program.
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My guess is a voter or two believes only starters should get votes.
 
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