BiG CR articles

[huskypantz]

So true; but, some guy named John Pemberton in the late 1800’s created a concoction that was supposed to cure disease, headaches, and even impotence out of drug stores and push carts in Atlanta. Roughly, 130 years later, Coca-Cola is a Fortune 100 company with 146,000 employees globally and revenues of $48 billion. Sometimes, smoke and mirrors work. As it did for Louisville this time.

Smoke, mirrors and cocaine.

 

[NickyNewark]

I agree that most wouldn't have preferred the ACC up until recently. They viewed it as a Southern Conference. But some I've talked with like the idea of Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame in there now. It makes the ACC a whole lot more attractive to them than it was a decade ago. The Maryland and Rutgers invites were done in part to try to get some eastern presense in the Big Ten to try to keep Penn State content.

The direct access to Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas for recruiting football talent would be a bonus. Paterno was already recruiting in Virginia and Maryland anyway.

Jopa had been touting RU for years and in the 80s he considered coaching there but instead send Dicky Anderson also Glen Mason and others in the B1G knew of the potential on NJ/NY and what that market could to to shape perception of the B1G from Midwestern to a national conference! Thats why I think RU feels more of an affinity with the B1G as the schools are less of a mix of private/public like the ACC! This CR stuff has really distracted me from a lot of the things i always loved about CFB ..mostly the regional rivalry's getting similar dollars so no one was at too much of a disadvantage!Getting way too political for me!

 

[UPitt]

You left out the most important parts of the post. First of all, I can't even fathom how you get 10 or 15 million when it's taken teams 2 and 3 years to get out. Your own school Pitt announced in 2011 and is finally in the conference for 2013-2014. 2 years without SEC pay = $60 million. Then you look at Rutgers that is taking 7 years to get paid by the B1G. If Rutgers were leaving the SEC, it would have made $70 million less in those 7 years than it otherwise would have by staying put. Total bill for leaving: $130 million.

WVU announced leaving the Big East in Oct 2011 and officially joined the Big 12 on July 1st, 2012. That is only 8 months, and the Big East required 27 months notice. Also WVU is receiving payment from Big 12 during the first year. Pitt and Cuse are receiving full payment the first year. With no 27 month requirement it is reasonable to assume that if the B1G wanted an SEC school they could ensure a quick entry and pay them during the first year. Also a school like Uconn would follow and join immediately as well. If an SEC school was as timely and crafty as WVU ( Vandy and Mizzou are without question) then they could leave the SEC for under $20 million.

This does not mean an SEC school is leaving, because I do not think any will, but it would not cost $130 million to leave the SEC.

 

[upstater]

WVU announced leaving the Big East in Oct 2011 and officially joined the Big 12 on July 1st, 2012. That is only 8 months, and the Big East required 27 months notice. Also WVU is receiving payment from Big 12 during the first year. Pitt and Cuse are receiving full payment the first year. With no 27 month requirement it is reasonable to assume that if the B1G wanted an SEC school they could ensure a quick entry and pay them during the first year. Also a school like Uconn would follow and join immediately as well. If an SEC school was as timely and crafty as WVU ( Vandy and Mizzou are without question) then they could leave the SEC for under $20 million.

This does not mean an SEC school is leaving, because I do not think any will, but it would not cost $130 million to leave the SEC.

WVU paid 4x the exit fee and was allowed to leave early. They are clearly the outlier. Most teams left after 2 years.

What in heavens are you arguing anyway?

It would cost a school $130 million IF they were given the same buy-in as Rutgers. I can't even see how you can possibly argue that. It's crazy to argue that since Rutgers is getting quarter and half shares. So why even bother arguing it? You're making no sense.

 

[upstater]

• 
  [ ]What doesn't yield enough attention for those slighting the BIG's recent expansion is the following: Jersey and Md are the best recruiting grounds for basketball and football recruits - Mid Atlantic (north of Va) to Maine. PSU, for example, has long depended on these states for their football prestige.

For football, we saw that Grantland map that showed Penn. as having many more blue chips per capita than both Maryland and NJ. Md. and NJ are 2nd and 3rd to PA.

In BBall you have the metro areas of Baltimore, DC, Philly, NYC and Boston which are all roughly similar in talent.

 

[upstater]

They have a $95 million athletic department that has shown itself to be successful and self sufficient. It is top 40 in the Director's cup. They have recently upgraded most of their athletic facilities. Florida State, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech once were their conference mates in the Metro Conference, and they supported their inclusion. They pleased both the basketball oriented schools and the football oriented schools in the league. Notre Dame wanted another midwestern team in the league, and apparently have developed somewhat of a basketball rivalry with Louisville. The ACC saw academic improvement at Louisville even though they need to work on that more.

We were losing a $60 million athletic department that is financially unable to fund its department without losing money. The stuff above was attractive in comparison.

Did people bother looking at the football record? I mean, look at the ACC. You added Ville, Pitt and Cuse. UConn has winning records combined against the 3 and is .500 against Ville. I'm not saying anything about how great UConn football is, but I'm only pointing out that you added the epitome of mediocre. Even in Ville's best year (last year) they still manaed to lose to the worst UConn team of the decade. As for training facilities and the like, no one in the old BE stood toe-to-toe with UConn. The last line about UConn academics is best addressed by UNC's Chancellor: "The decision to add Louisville had nothing to do with academics."

 

[Gfunk]

You mean this one:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...in-big-ten-expanding-include-maryland-rutgers

However, I never just stop at a particular article in name only, I go to the cited source & this source has issues. as Grantland is not matter a fact journalism, in fact most sports journalism sucks in the facts department. Btw, football always been better down South - the BIG capitalized in decades leading up to post-segregation.

As for the map, I'm pretty sure Md and NJ are ahead of Pa in per capita talent. Then again, I'm tired as hell, color blind and this map is a little small to read right now - I'm on my daughter's old laptop. Lastly, I do believe Pa's hs football culture has faded a lot the past 20 years.

For basketball, I wouldn't put Boston on DC's level, nor Bmore and NYC (Jersey side). Philly is strong, but DC-Bmore has quickly become what some in the business are calling the top city for hs recruits. I'd still take Chicago over DC-Bmore. UConn has done well with DC-Bmore, right? Rudy Gay and Josh Boone, I'm sure more.

PS If many of the colder states consciously decided to upgrade their hs football, it could be done. It would be more expensive than down south, southeast, southwest, but it can be done & if the effort and culture are there, give it a decade. Spring and winter football can happen.

For football, we saw that Grantland map that showed Penn. as having many more blue chips per capita than both Maryland and NJ. Md. and NJ are 2nd and 3rd to PA.

In BBall you have the metro areas of Baltimore, DC, Philly, NYC and Boston which are all roughly similar in talent.

 

[woomba]

No - the map is more or less accurate. What you're might be thinking of is highly ranked recruits.

Pennsylvania hasn't been churning out as many stars as it used to - especially with the rise of private HS sports academics like IMG that pull talented kids with rich families down to the south (which would lead them to technically classify as "Southern" recruits)

 

[UPitt]

WVU paid 4x the exit fee and was allowed to leave early. They are clearly the outlier. Most teams left after 2 years.

WVU only paid extra to leave early because the Big East had the 27 month requirement. Without this requirement, WVU, Pitt, and Cuse would have all left within 8 months with no additional exit fees. The SEC does not have this requirement. Louisville and Rutgers are exceptions because they are waiting for Maryland before they can move. The only reason it takes teams a couple years to move is because the new conference is not always in a position to accept them the first year. As I stated, the B1G could invite 2 teams this fall and have them officially join within 6 to 8 months. A timely move to save money would depend on the B1G (as opposed to the SEC), and I am sure if the B1G wanted to add an SEC team they could manage to allow the team to join within 6 to 8 months. It happened for WVU and the Big 12, so why can't it happen for Vandy or Mizzou and the B1G?


What in heavens are you arguing anyway?

Money has driven conference realignment. If anyone is serious about Mizzou or Vandy joining the B1G, then the $130 you stated becomes a really important figure. I am questioning this figure and explaining why I feel that the cost of moving to the B1G is not nearly as much as you stated. If the cost of moving is closer to $20 million as I predicted, then it is reasonable to assume an SEC team could financially afford to move to the B1G.


It would cost a school $130 million IF they were given the same buy-in as Rutgers. I can't even see how you can possibly argue that. It's crazy to argue that since Rutgers is getting quarter and half shares. So why even bother arguing it? You're making no sense.

This is a big "IF". No offense to our Rutgers fans, but Rutgers, being in a sinking Big East, was in a weak position to negotiate with the B1G, where as an SEC team would be in a much stronger position. Did Maryland get the exact same deal as Rutgers, or is Maryland getting additional help that has not been offered to Rutgers?

IF it is true that Rutgers is getting the deal that you have referenced (7 years to get to paid???) and IF it is true that the B1G would not be willing to offer a more fair deal to an SEC team, and IF it is true that the B1G would not accept an SEC team for 2 to 3 years, THEN it may not be financially possible for an SEC team to move to the B1G.

But IF the B1G is serious about adding an SEC team, THEN I am sure the B1G can make a better offer that would cost far less than $130 million.

Again, I do not think any SEC teams will leave for the B1G, but I do think it is financially possible.

 

[TerryD]

Anywhere? Been to Brazil? I prepare students here to take the TOEFL and SAT, and ND is as least as well known as MI- maybe because of the high proportion of Catholics...

I just spent ten days in Ireland (and was there in 2011). Many people knew about ND. In fact, it was about the only American college football team that they knew about.

It might be the Catholic affiliation or it might be that ND just brought 35,000 fans to a game in Dublin last year.

 

[TerryD]

ND an international university but Michigan a regional one? I'll have to think about that.

He is correct in that ND sees itself as a national university and the Big Ten as a regional conference. ND has no desire to join the Big Ten, ever.

 

[TerryD]

I still think BC and Cuse will block UConn -- just ludicrous, but the same as UConn blocking UMass from the AAC if it ever came down to it.

I know we have support of VA and NC schools.

From what I have read, UConn may have a problem with "football schools" like Clemson and Florida State. Those two are not happy with the idea of another "Yankee basketball school" joining the ACC.

 

[babysheep]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but are there any members of the B1G who seem to not want UConn like Cuse, BC, Clemson? I imagine some of the most football-centric schools like Nebraska might

 

[NickyNewark]

WVU paid 4x the exit fee and was allowed to leave early. They are clearly the outlier. Most teams left after 2 years.

What in heavens are you arguing anyway?

It would cost a school $130 million IF they were given the same buy-in as Rutgers. I can't even see how you can possibly argue that. It's crazy to argue that since Rutgers is getting quarter and half shares. So why even bother arguing it? You're making no sense.

RU starts at a half or 50%share that goes up 10% a year and recieves a full share in the 6th year from my understanding!My niece worked in RU's AD last year!Just my understanding but it all shakes out in the end Mds deal was frontloaded but it comes out even later!Lets see 12M or 2 M?Hmmm..btw even as we speak thats being negotiated !

 

[UConn Dan]

I just spent ten days in Ireland (and was there in 2011). Many people knew about ND. In fact, it was about the only American college football team that they knew about.

It might be the Catholic affiliation or it might be that ND just brought 35,000 fans to a game in Dublin last year.

Having a little green leprechaun as your mascot and "Fighting Irish" nickname might have something to do with ND's popularity in Ireland.

 

[NickyNewark]

IF it is true that Rutgers is getting the deal that you have referenced (7 years to get to paid???) and IF it is true that the B1G would not be willing to offer a more fair deal to an SEC team, and IF it is true that the B1G would not accept an SEC team for 2 to 3 years, THEN it may not be financially possible for an SEC team to move to the B1G.

But IF the B1G is serious about adding an SEC team, THEN I am sure the B1G can make a better offer that would cost far less than $130 million.

Again, I do not think any SEC teams will leave for the B1G, but I do think it is financially possible.

Where do you provide a link or proof of that ridiculous assertion?RU gets 50% in the 1st year will be close to 14M minumum!With 10% yearly jumps to 100% by 2020 or the 6th year !! You'd give your left nut to trade places with RU but knew it couldn't happen(PSU) so with "Cuse" ran secretly to "save face"!!Who are you trying to BS?You guys heard about the B1Gs study and knew you had no shot!Where else COULD you go?

 

[NickyNewark]

Having a little green leprechaun as your mascot and "Fighting Irish" nickname might have something to do with ND's popularity in Ireland.[/qute]

 

[UConn Dan]

From what I have read, UConn may have a problem with "football schools" like Clemson and Florida State. Those two are not happy with the idea of another "Yankee basketball school" joining the ACC.

This is correct. I was speaking to why would local rivals (BC, Cuse) block a move to the ACC.

The only schools that supported UConn were Virginia, UNC, Duke and Wake. Maryland didn't have a vote this last round (since they were the school to be replaced), but they probably would have supported us too. Not sure where GA Tech, NC State, VA Tech and Pitt (could not vote) were, but Clemson, Florida State, Miami and BC were all against UConn and voted for Louisville and Cuse (could not vote) voiced their preference for Louisville.

 

[miko33]

And the ACC takes in Louisville over UConn? What is Louisville going to add in research? How to breed better horses and make better baseball bats? Completely mind-boggling.

The ACCIAC - like the CIC - is NOT designed to dole out research dollars nor provide huge financial boosts to research dollars for ACC and B1G schools. As indicated above, they are designed to provide purchasing savings on equipment as well as some cross-registration of courses. Definitely nice but far from critical entities that are true game changers in the quality of a school. I like to use the Pitt vs PSU example to illustrate that the CIC does NOT dole out research dollars. While Pitt was stuck in the Big East in the 90s, PSU joined the B1G. When you compare the yearly research expenditures between the schools, you'll notice that they largely mirror each other and I would even go so far as to say Pitt did a little bit better. How can that be if the CIC is this magic research consortium that is supposed to blow everyone else away? Easy, because the CIC was not really that big of a deal in the end anyways. It provided tangible benefits, but not anything that other schools couldn't also get if they created some loose affiliations of their own plus enter into cross-registration agreements with other schools. It can be done quite easily without a formal "research consortia"...

 

[UConn Dan]

Did I stutter?

 

[NickyNewark]

Where do you provide a link or proof of that ridiculous assertion?RU gets 50% in the 1st year will be close to 14M minumum!With 10% yearly jumps to 100% by 2020 or the 6th year !! You'd give your left nut to trade places with RU but knew it couldn't happen(PSU) so with "Cuse" ran secretly to "save face"!!Who are you trying to BS?You guys heard about the B1Gs study and knew you had no shot!Where else COULD you go?

@even knowing the ACC is paying 19M in this 1st year!

 

[NickyNewark]

No I edited a post that didn't add anything you had already mentioned!I didn't want to be redundant.

 

[UConn Dan]

No I edited a post that didn't add anything you had already mentioned!I didn't want to be redundant.

Saw that. Just bustin balls Nicky!

 

[NickyNewark]

You mean this one:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...in-big-ten-expanding-include-maryland-rutgers

However, I never just stop at a particular article in name only, I go to the cited source & this source has issues. as Grantland is not matter a fact journalism, in fact most sports journalism sucks in the facts department. Btw, football always been better down South - the BIG capitalized in decades leading up to post-segregation.

As for the map, I'm pretty sure Md and NJ are ahead of Pa in per capita talent. Then again, I'm tired as hell, color blind and this map is a little small to read right now - I'm on my daughter's old laptop. Lastly, I do believe Pa's hs football culture has faded a lot the past 20 years.

For basketball, I wouldn't put Boston on DC's level, nor Bmore and NYC (Jersey side). Philly is strong, but DC-Bmore has quickly become what some in the business are calling the top city for hs recruits. I'd still take Chicago over DC-Bmore. UConn has done well with DC-Bmore, right? Rudy Gay and Josh Boone, I'm sure more.

PS If many of the colder states consciously decided to upgrade their hs football, it could be done. It would be more expensive than down south, southeast, southwest, but it can be done & if the effort and culture are there, give it a decade. Spring and winter football can happen.

Your correct and he only reads what he wants to read!

 

[upstater]

RU starts at a half or 50%share that goes up 10% a year and recieves a full share in the 6th year from my understanding!My niece worked in RU's AD last year!Just my understanding but it all shakes out in the end Mds deal was frontloaded but it comes out even later!Lets see 12M or 2 M?Hmmm..btw even as we speak thats being negotiated !

No doubt this is fantastic for Rutgers. But we're talking about an SEC team. That's a $15 million loss per year for an SEC team to move. Assuming your niece is right (I actually read worse numbers than that, with RU starting at 25%, so I figured an average of 50%), the $$ lost is more like $15m per year - $1.5m every year. So, $15m, $13.5m, $12m, $10.5m, $9m, 7.5m, $6m, or a total of $73.5 + $60m less in the last 2 years of the SEC deal.

 

[upstater]

IF it is true that Rutgers is getting the deal that you have referenced (7 years to get to paid???) and IF it is true that the B1G would not be willing to offer a more fair deal to an SEC team, and IF it is true that the B1G would not accept an SEC team for 2 to 3 years, THEN it may not be financially possible for an SEC team to move to the B1G.

But IF the B1G is serious about adding an SEC team, THEN I am sure the B1G can make a better offer that would cost far less than $130 million.

Again, I do not think any SEC teams will leave for the B1G, but I do think it is financially possible.

Read Nicky's post about Maryland getting the same deal in the end that Rutgers did.

And, I did say that the B1G would have to pony up to get Missouri. It was in my very first post on this matter.

Lastly, consider that RU could have gone to the B1G this year as well, but it's in the AAC. Why? Because B1G schedules, with 9 games in conference, will be very hard to rearrange at that short notice. It will take two years for any team to join the B1G. So the $60m loss from the SEC is automatic. Next, the question is, will the B1G hold a school like Missouri to the same deal it gave Maryland and Rutgers? I would do research on Nebraska but I suspect they got the same deal as the other schools. Penn State too had to buy in and be vested. This is pretty common across all conferences. You actually GIVE the new conference money. Virgina Tech and UConn did it in the BE.

I still say the monetary loss to Missouri would be so huge that there would be absolutely no reason for them to do it. If you're in a flailing conference like the BE or in the future the B12, then it's a helluva lot easier to move. The other conferences are locked in. If the B1G wants a 15th, UConn is a prime candidate.

 

[upstater]

Your correct and he only reads what he wants to read!

You better read it again. Because Pennsylvania is pretty dark in that graphic.

 

[upstater]

The ACCIAC - like the CIC - is NOT designed to dole out research dollars nor provide huge financial boosts to research dollars for ACC and B1G schools. As indicated above, they are designed to provide purchasing savings on equipment as well as some cross-registration of courses. Definitely nice but far from critical entities that are true game changers in the quality of a school. I like to use the Pitt vs PSU example to illustrate that the CIC does NOT dole out research dollars. While Pitt was stuck in the Big East in the 90s, PSU joined the B1G. When you compare the yearly research expenditures between the schools, you'll notice that they largely mirror each other and I would even go so far as to say Pitt did a little bit better. How can that be if the CIC is this magic research consortium that is supposed to blow everyone else away? Easy, because the CIC was not really that big of a deal in the end anyways. It provided tangible benefits, but not anything that other schools couldn't also get if they created some loose affiliations of their own plus enter into cross-registration agreements with other schools. It can be done quite easily without a formal "research consortia"...

I've been saying this for years, but as someone who was at a CIC school, the biggest benefit of all was access the metrics and assessments. You could easily benchmark your program or project against the finest public state universities in the country, and this access to information allowed the university to allocate resources accordingly. It made a huge difference.

And it had little to do with money.

 

[UPitt]

Where do you provide a link or proof of that ridiculous assertion?RU gets 50% in the 1st year will be close to 14M minumum!With 10% yearly jumps to 100% by 2020 or the 6th year !! You'd give your left nut to trade places with RU but knew it couldn't happen(PSU) so with "Cuse" ran secretly to "save face"!!Who are you trying to BS?You guys heard about the B1Gs study and knew you had no shot!Where else COULD you go?

The 7 years without being paid??? I was quoting the upstarter post above and using it to represent a hypothetical situation. I understood the deal with Rutgers to be similar to what you stated. I was not sure about the Maryland deal, but my understanding was they would be getting more than Rutgers now. I did not know that Maryland would lose money later.

As for the ACC vs B1G, I prefer Pitt in the ACC. I feel we better fit in with more smaller private and semi-public universities. 10 years ago I would have felt different, but I have seen the gap grow between large land grant universities and the privates over the past 10 years. If it continues to grow Pitt would have been out of place in the B1G.

 

[btstimpy]

Did people bother looking at the football record? I mean, look at the ACC. You added Ville, Pitt and Cuse. UConn has winning records combined against the 3 and is .500 against Ville. I'm not saying anything about how great UConn football is, but I'm only pointing out that you added the epitome of mediocre. Even in Ville's best year (last year) they still manaed to lose to the worst UConn team of the decade. As for training facilities and the like, no one in the old BE stood toe-to-toe with UConn. The last line about UConn academics is best addressed by UNC's Chancellor: "The decision to add Louisville had nothing to do with academics."

The ACC schools that have instate rivals in the SEC like Louisville because they do as well. There was a debate in the conference between playing 8 conference games per season or playing 9. We were at 9, and they complained about their ability to schedule with 9 due to their SEC rivals. The other schools didn't have this issue. It's similar in the SEC where Alabama/Auburn and the Mississippi schools want 9 games. They don't have an instate ACC rival. This was a factor for the votes of Miami, FSU, GT, and Clemson. The vote was taken before the Sugar Bowl, but Louisville's spanking of the Florida Gators has added to their popularity in that part of the ACC.

Additionally, Louisville has recently wrapped up home and home series against NC State, UNC, Miami, and FSU over the past decade. They have a history of ticket sales in these ACC stadiums for football that impressed these schools. The same went for bowl games against Wake Forest, NC State, and Virginia Tech.

I personally would like to see UConn invited, and I've explained that here. Virginia sits in the mid-Atlantic and has a long history of playing northeastern schools dating all the way back to when the Ivy League Schools dominated college football. We owe Yale, Princeton, and Penn a few lossses even though we obviously don't play them anymore. I also like the academic resume of UConn.