BiG CR articles

[UConn Dan]

Missouri is now in a position of negotiating strength. The B1G has to grovel to add Missouri now when it could have had them for a pittance. The difference is this: look at Rutgers' deal, they won't be fully vested for almost a decade. They will pay-into the B1G for a long time. Missouri, since it's in the SEC, will rightly demand immediate full membership. And they have every reason to do so, since a Rutgers type deal would see them take huge losses monetarily. The moment they announce intentions to leave the SEC, the SEC stops paying them. Assume that means 2 years. Now add $15-20m in exit fees. Then subtract the SEC max payout of $30m from the money the B1G will dole out to Mizzou on average over the first 7 years, and you are talking about a huge loss. By my estimate, Missouri would be out $150 million if it decides to move from the SEC to the B1G, UNLESS the B1G came grovelling and gave it a sweetheart deal to move.

I know the SEC has no GOR, but I also thought they had no exit fee as well?

 

[pj]

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/65736/jim-delany-discusses-addition-of-maryland

According to Delany, there wasn't one institutional move that triggered the Big Ten's decision to expansion.

"It's multiple institutions in multiple parts of the country moving into multiple regions," he said. "It really wasn't Notre Dame [joining the ACC in all sports but football]. It was pretty clear to me that Notre Dame for a long time wanted to maintain its independence, and as that's a matter of fact, I knew there wasn’t a possibility for us to add Notre Dame."

Yes. I think the B1G know Notre Dame would always take football independence and the ACC, if that was available, ahead of the B1G; and they're OK with that, they don't want to lose their close-knit culture of equality and fraternity.

But the adamant view of Notre Dame alums and administrators that the B1G is a regional conference, Notre Dame is a national or international university, and therefore the two are not a fit, had to bring home to the B1G that there is a perception of them as a somewhat parochial institution.

With realignment hinging on national television revenue and national brands, I think changing that perception became a high priority.

I think football recruiting also brought it home. The B1G hasn't recruited well out of region.

Since the northeast lacked a strong conference loyalty, is a major population and media center, it made sense to try to expand here. As an eastern and midwestern conference, the B1G has a greater claim to national reach. I'm sure they'll be cultivating New York media institutions for publicity.

 

[GopherHawk]

I agree with you. I think the ACC is stable. What about our UConn hosts? I have posted in favor of their inclusion in the B1G but I certainly believe they would be a great fit for the ACC as well.
Do you see a time that BC et al. will step aside in favor of adding UConn to the ACC?

Whats more likely?

BC and SU smile as UConn is invited to the ACC or Mizzu swallows its pride and accepts and invite from the B1G?

Both would require a deep breath and some meditation by a number of people.

I really believe if the B1G expands(50/50 at best) UConn is one of the top candidates. That is because at 16 teams you want 4 in the East. (PSU, RU, UMd and UConn) If you only have 3 truly Eastern teams it forces an older member to be included in a Pod with the new members. The B1G has proved it wants to keep UM and tOSU in the same grouping. That means either MSU, IU or Purdue would be pushed into the eastern Pod. That doesn't fit.

One Eastern and one Western allows the conference to be naturally divided. Mizzu (no GOR) and UofK(GOR and lil bro issue) are simple fits in the puzzle.

 

[upstater]

I know the SEC has no GOR, but I also thought they had no exit fee as well?

I think you're right. Make that a $130 million loss!

 

[upstater]

Yes. I think the B1G know Notre Dame would always take football independence and the ACC, if that was available, ahead of the B1G; and they're OK with that, they don't want to lose their close-knit culture of equality and fraternity.

But the adamant view of Notre Dame alums and administrators that the B1G is a regional conference, Notre Dame is a national or international university, and therefore the two are not a fit, had to bring home to the B1G that there is a perception of them as a somewhat parochial institution.

With realignment hinging on national television revenue and national brands, I think changing that perception became a high priority.

I think football recruiting also brought it home. The B1G hasn't recruited well out of region.

Since the northeast lacked a strong conference loyalty, is a major population and media center, it made sense to try to expand here. As an eastern and midwestern conference, the B1G has a greater claim to national reach. I'm sure they'll be cultivating New York media institutions for publicity.

ND an international university but Michigan a regional one? I'll have to think about that.

 

[btstimpy]

I agree with you. I think the ACC is stable. What about our UConn hosts? I have posted in favor of their inclusion in the B1G but I certainly believe they would be a great fit for the ACC as well.
Do you see a time that BC et al. will step aside in favor of adding UConn to the ACC?

I do think that UConn would be a great addition to the ACC, and I've posted that here before. I don't understand Boston College's objection. They think UConn is too close geographically. But, the 4 North Carolina Schools and 2 Virginia Schools think this is a ridiculous argument. We all coexist in quite cozy confines with each other. It is fun to have rivals close by. I think the Boston College position was largely from Gene DeFilippo. He has since retired, so they could change their position.

I don't know what Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville will think. I would hope they would support UConn. Their opinion is going to matter. UConn has earned a spot in a Power Conference in my opinion. Whether it is ACC or Big Ten will be decided by who offers first.

 

[upstater]

I do think that UConn would be a great addition to the ACC, and I've posted that here before. I don't understand Boston College's objection. They think UConn is too close geographically. But, the 4 North Carolina Schools and 2 Virginia Schools think this is a ridiculous argument. We all coexist in quite cozy confines with each other. It is fun to have rivals close by. I think the Boston College position was largely from Gene DeFilippo. He has since retired, so they could change their position.

I don't know what Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville will think. I would hope they would support UConn. Their opinion is going to matter. UConn has earned a spot in a Power Conference in my opinion. Whether it is ACC or Big Ten will be decided by who offers first.

Gene DeFillippo blocked UConn when Pitt and Cuse were added. He stepped down shortly thereafter in the fallout of his boasting. I happen to believe he was a smart devil who fell on his sword because the ACC was moving in 2011 to add ND and UConn pretty quickly until Gene D. claimed that ESPN was orchestrating it all, and that botched the move. In late 2012, the new AD at BC also blocked Uconn, according to newspaper articles that described the presidents and ADs at UNC, Duke and Virginia as incredulous.

 

[UConn Dan]

I do think that UConn would be a great addition to the ACC, and I've posted that here before. I don't understand Boston College's objection. They think UConn is too close geographically. But, the 4 North Carolina Schools and 2 Virginia Schools think this is a ridiculous argument. We all coexist in quite cozy confines with each other. It is fun to have rivals close by. I think the Boston College position was largely from Gene DeFilippo. He has since retired, so they could change their position.

I don't know what Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville will think. I would hope they would support UConn. Their opinion is going to matter. UConn has earned a spot in a Power Conference in my opinion. Whether it is ACC or Big Ten will be decided by who offers first.

I still think BC and Cuse will block UConn -- just ludicrous, but the same as UConn blocking UMass from the AAC if it ever came down to it.

I know we have support of VA and NC schools.

 

[upstater]

I think football recruiting also brought it home. The B1G hasn't recruited well out of region.

When you look at the recruiting of PSU, Ohio State and Michigan, these 3 schools had top classes year after year, sent so many players to he NFL, as many as top programs elsewhere, brought a lot of kids from down south up north, and yet they could never win on the big stages. Why? Because the coaching was subpar: Paterno was 10 years too old, Cooper fumbled around, Carr couldn't win the one game that mattered, Rodriugez was a disaster. Etc. Tressel is the only one that changed some of the perception.

I'd say the B1G had a coaching problem, not a talent problem.

 

[pj]

I'm just speculating about motivations. But if it's coaching, you have to ask, why did the best coaches want to coach in the south?

Re recruiting, check out a recent set of Rivals recruiting rankings: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all After Ohio State (2), Michigan (5), and Nebraska (17), you have to go all the way to #38 (Indiana) to find a B1G school. (Maryland was 33.) These are the national brands in the B1G. The conference itself doesn't seem to have much pull, the other conference members were getting outrecruited by the Big East.

Checkout Michigan's class: almost all from B1G territory: http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/michigan-29. Ohio State is by far the best national recruiter.

 

[B1GALUM]

PSU does fir into the B1G. The problem with the B1G is that Michigan and Ohio St didn't want PSU, and the treatment from the league office and the referees has been beyond absurd over the years. Quick Q: when is the last time that a team was penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct for fans cheering too loud? (and on 4th down late in the 4th Q of a tight game no less)?

PSU's board developed the roadmap for its own punishments--the NCAA and B1G had little to do with it. That being said, the feathers were ruffled when Michigan St. opened the issue of expelling PSU from the conference.

From what I heard in the office (a lot of PUS alums), the talk of Penn State going to the ACC was an act of revenge against both the B1G and the NCAA over how Penn State as a whole was treated over the Sandusky crimes. Once it calmed down, everyone agreed that Penn State would not give-up access to the research dollars that the B1G provides for a more ‘favorable’ athletic environment in the ACC.

Penn State was a fantastic add to the B1G. I understand my alma mater as an institution did not want their inclusion. However, this Ohio State guy, was excited about their joining the B1G. I am glad they remain a part of the conference and think they are a great fit given their status as a state flagship public research university. The B1G collectively should have been more welcoming and supportive of Penn State all these years.

 

[upstater]

I'm just speculating about motivations. But if it's coaching, you have to ask, why did the best coaches want to coach in the south?

Re recruiting, check out a recent set of Rivals recruiting rankings: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all After Ohio State (2), Michigan (5), and Nebraska (17), you have to go all the way to #38 (Indiana) to find a B1G school. (Maryland was 33.) These are the national brands in the B1G. The conference itself doesn't seem to have much pull, the other conference members were getting outrecruited by the Big East.

Checkout Michigan's class: almost all from B1G territory: http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/michigan-29. Ohio State is by far the best national recruiter.

I don't think the best coaches wanted to be down south. I think it's a matter of circumstance. Carr and Cooper were shoehorned into their positions. Paterno coached for 50 years. It's circumstance. Urban Meyer after all left Florida and a year later ended up at Ohio State. He could've landed back down south if he'd wanted.

 

[GopherHawk]

Delany, Scott, Slive and Swoffard are in a bar having a drink talking about whats best for each of their conferences. In that case the B12 is doomed. I could see a scenario where only Iowa St and Baylor get left out. If all you have to pay off is the contract of 2 schools the movement becomes simple. You give Baylor and ISU each $200M over 10 years and send them to CUSA. Thats all they were going to get anyway. It allows the other teams to move on. This scenario is based on the fact the GOR is not breakable, but paying the TV contracts to two schools is a cheap way to make everything happen.

Teams in play in this drunken bar scenario are

TCU, OSU, KSU, KU, Mizzu, UT, OU, TT, WVU & UConn

PAC and B1G "claim" to have academic standards.
WVU, UConn and TCU would not be logical for the PAC.
B1G would never take WVU, TCU, TT, KSU or OSU
SEC would allow Mizzu to be taken by the B1G if it allowed them 1st pick in the draft. SEC also knows that OU and Texas could have come but already said no.
ACC is the least powerful and gets 4th choice in the draft.

Swofford is told to sit in the corner while Delany and Slive figure out who goes first. Slive knows that UT is a slam dunk, but feels ATM is almost as good and doesn't want the fight or headaches that come with UT. He knows Delany's ego wants a home run and UT is as good or better than ND. Slive allows Delany the first pick. Delany thinks about it. He knows that OU will want to be with UT so he chooses...

You fill in the rest.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

... when Notre Dame joined the ACC, the Penn State boards were saying "why not us", "lucky devils", and "I'm jealous".

That has to be one of the most nonsensical things I've ever read.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Delany, Scott, Slive and Swoffard are in a bar having a drink talking about whats best for each of their conferences. In that case the B12 is doomed. I could see a scenario where only Iowa St and Baylor get left out. If all you have to pay off is the contract of 2 schools the movement becomes simple. You give Baylor and ISU each $200M over 10 years and send them to CUSA. Thats all they were going to get anyway. It allows the other teams to move on. This scenario is based on the fact the GOR is not breakable, but paying the TV contracts to two schools is a cheap way to make everything happen.

Teams in play in this drunken bar scenario are

TCU, OSU, KSU, KU, Mizzu, UT, OU, TT, WVU & UConn

PAC and B1G "claim" to have academic standards.
WVU, UConn and TCU would not be logical for the PAC.
B1G would never take WVU, TCU, TT, KSU or OSU
SEC would allow Mizzu to be taken by the B1G if it allowed them 1st pick in the draft. SEC also knows that OU and Texas could have come but already said no.
ACC is the least powerful and gets 4th choice in the draft.

Swofford is told to sit in the corner while Delany and Slive figure out who goes first. Slive knows that UT is a slam dunk, but feels ATM is almost as good and doesn't want the fight or headaches that come with UT. He knows Delany's ego wants a home run and UT is as good or better than ND. Slive allows Delany the first pick. Delany thinks about it. He knows that OU will want to be with UT so he chooses...

You fill in the rest.

It doesn't matter to me who Delany/Slive/Scott pick first. What matters is, when Swofford arises to announce that he's come to his senses, realizes that the only way he has a chance to save his conference is to try to succeed in the northeast, and that, therefore, his pick will be UConn, Delany tells him to sit back down and names the Huskies to the B1G. Swofford has missed the boat. The ACC should be renamed the Little Brother Conference.

 

[btstimpy]

I still think BC and Cuse will block UConn -- just ludicrous, but the same as UConn blocking UMass from the AAC if it ever came down to it.

I know we have support of VA and NC schools.

I don't get this. UConn played in a successful basketball league with BC and Cuse for decades. It is a closer school geographically for students and fans to road trip to. Maybe it's the private school vs public school thing. If our southern schools like FSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson would get on board, maybe it won't matter what BC thinks. I don't think they have any issue with UConn. It was just that this last go around they really wanted Louisville.

 

[UConn Dan]

I don't get this. UConn played in a successful basketball league with BC and Cuse for decades. It is a closer school geographically for students and fans to road trip to. Maybe it's the private school vs public school thing. If our southern schools like FSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson would get on board, maybe it won't matter what BC thinks. I don't think they have any issue with UConn. It was just that this last go around they really wanted Louisville.

The only reason is they fear competition in the New England/New York market. They should "man up".

 

[UPitt]

I think you're right. Make that a $130 million loss!

$130 million? The SEC has no GOR, no exit fee, and no other exiting policies. Even if the SEC could hold back a teams payments from the time of declaring departure, a team could minimize that to as little as 6 months of pay or about 10 to 15 million, which would be on par with the old BE. It is not the exiting policies or cost of leaving the SEC that hold it together, but rather the competition, future earning, and southern cultural fit.

 

[btstimpy]

That has to be one of the most nonsensical things I've ever read.

BWI and Audibles both. And they had BuffaloLion on there telling all of them that they were crazy. I've seen him over here. Kevin McGuire, who writes columns and covers Penn State, tweeted about it and wrote about it too.

 

[btstimpy]

The only reason is they fear competition in the New England/New York market. They should "man up".

Why would they fear it? They've been in a league with UConn for 25-30 years. Makes no sense.

 

[sdhusky]

I don't get this. UConn played in a successful basketball league with BC and Cuse for decades. It is a closer school geographically for students and fans to road trip to. Maybe it's the private school vs public school thing. If our southern schools like FSU, Georgia Tech, and Clemson would get on board, maybe it won't matter what BC thinks. I don't think they have any issue with UConn. It was just that this last go around they really wanted Louisville.

A big part of it was the explosive growth of UCONN.

SU has to deal with the fact that despite a decade headstart, they are behind UCONN in BE Championships, BET Championships, sweett16's, elite 8, FF's and NC's since the start of the BE.

SU also has to deal with having a losing record against UCONN in football.

BCU always was SU's little brother.

 

[Sea Goat]

I still think BC and Cuse will block UConn -- just ludicrous, but the same as UConn blocking UMass from the AAC if it ever came down to it.

I know we have support of VA and NC schools.

Do we want to be in a conference that would "allow" Syracuse or BC to block us? It seems like the tail would be wagging the dog.

 

[UConn Dan]

Why would they fear it? They've been in a league with UConn for 25-30 years. Makes no sense.

But now they have a new opportunity in a new league that is more-so concentrated in the South where they can say to recruits and media/licensing partners, "We are NYC's team" or "We are New England's team". It's a bunch of BS, but they can say it.

I always thought the Syracuse AD had our back to get us into the ACC, but when it was reported that when their input was requested from the ACC on which team to add, they chose Louisville, I lost all hope of us ever getting an invite to the ACC unless they need some major holes to fill. At this point, I think they take Cinci over UConn if ND (when hell freezes over) ever decided to go all in.

 

[specialisthusky]

Why would they fear it? They've been in a league with UConn for 25-30 years. Makes no sense.

And ask yourself who has had the most success in those 25-30 years throughout its athletic department. That is why they don't want to see us on an even playing field.

 

[Sea Goat]

But now they have a new opportunity in a new league that is more-so concentrated in the South where they can say to recruits and media/licensing partners, "We are NYC's team" or "We are New England's team". It's a bunch of BS, but they can say it.

I always thought the Syracuse AD had our back to get us into the ACC, but when it was reported that when their input was requested from the ACC on which team to add, they chose Louisville, I lost all hope of us ever getting an invite to the ACC unless they need some major holes to fill. At this point, I think they take Cinci over UConn if ND (when hell freezes over) ever decided to go all in.

Let them - the ACC is going down the wrong road and the it will create problems soon enough. Syracuse is just jealous of our success and that won't change. As I posted earlier, Syracuse is, at best, a second tier private institution in the Northeast that is over-priced for what you get. The last thing they want is being compared to public institution every bit as good as them academically (and on a much more positive trajectory) at 1/3 the cost.

 

[btstimpy]

But now they have a new opportunity in a new league that is more-so concentrated in the South where they can say to recruits and media/licensing partners, "We are NYC's team" or "We are New England's team". It's a bunch of BS, but they can say it.

I always thought the Syracuse AD had our back to get us into the ACC, but when it was reported that when their input was requested from the ACC on which team to add, they chose Louisville, I lost all hope of us ever getting an invite to the ACC unless they need some major holes to fill. At this point, I think they take Cinci over UConn if ND (when hell freezes over) ever decided to go all in.

I hope UConn is the next choice. I'm not sold on Cincinnati. But, I would imagine Pittsburgh and Louisville will be wanting them. I realize that UVA will have a hard time winning basketball games vs UConn. But I like good competition. It makes the league fun to follow. We already have a hard time beating Duke in basketball and Virginia Tech in football. It's exciting when we do.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

BWI and Audibles both. And they had BuffaloLion on there telling all of them that they were crazy. I've seen him over here. Kevin McGuire, who writes columns and covers Penn State, tweeted about it and wrote about it too.

No disrespect to you, stimpy. You seem like a fine and reasonable fellow. It's just that a bunch of people saying they want out of the most profitable and stable conference for one that is still on shaky footing makes no sense to me. The ACC's troubles can be summed up in three words. South Eastern Conference.

 

[UConn Dan]

I hope UConn is the next choice. I'm not sold on Cincinnati. But, I would imagine Pittsburgh and Louisville will be wanting them. I realize that UVA will have a hard time winning basketball games vs UConn. But I like good competition. It makes the league fun to follow. We already have a hard time beating Duke in basketball and Virginia Tech in football. It's exciting when we do.

I love competition in any sport -- that's how you get better. Like the one and only Jim Calhoun said, "Line 'em up!"

 

[btstimpy]

No disrespect to you, stimpy. You seem like a fine and reasonable fellow. It's just that a bunch of people saying they want out of the most profitable and stable conference for one that is still on shaky footing makes no sense to me. The ACC's troubles can be summed up in three words. South Eastern Conference.

Yet they do, and they think they are a major part of why the Big Ten is most profitable and stable. If they move out and join the ACC, they think they will take that profitability and stability with them. I think that the Big Ten would survive just fine. I'm just saying what they have been saying.

Here you go from 1 year ago this week: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/08/17/3302523/in-ncaa-debacle-acc-option-more.html

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I don't think the best coaches wanted to be down south. I think it's a matter of circumstance. Carr and Cooper were shoehorned into their positions. Paterno coached for 50 years. It's circumstance. Urban Meyer after all left Florida and a year later ended up at Ohio State. He could've landed back down south if he'd wanted.

Unless of course you are Nick Saban making a cool $5.3 million a year at Alabama, which ranks him #1 in college sports and would make him #11 (of 32) of coaches in the NFL.

http://coacheshotseat.com/NFLCoachesSalaries.htm

Have to love those salaries at supposed, amateur, non-profit universities.