nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,925
- Reaction Score
- 40,376
You could have just posted "yes".
Big 12 and ACC are fumbling with their expansion apprehensiveness? They will become 2nd class BBall citizens as well if they continue.
- Thread starter Zerostatic
- Start date
You could have just posted "yes".
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 13,928
- Reaction Score
- 25,959
The ACC’s basketball problems are, I think, more the result of losing 3 Hall of Fame coaches and several other excellent ones who have something like 10 NCAA titles in their combined careers within the last 5 years. We may hate K, Roy and Boeheim but they could coach.Bennett was excellent too. Add coaches from Miami, and Notre Dame and maybe even slick Rick. We know how a bad coach can set a program back. Imagine trying to replace that many. If every coach was Coach K he wouldn’t be anything special.
It didn’t help that they added a bunch of members that aren’t basketball powers, but replacing legends takes time. And despite all this, they continue to get teams into the Final Four. And have a top program right now.
nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,925
- Reaction Score
- 40,376
Three thoughts:
1) I think the window to be added has closed, and neither the ACC or Big 12 will add UConn alone. UConn does nothing to address the strategic problems those leagues face, and even if UConn played for free in the league, the incremental money from one more team does not really move the needle for either league's members.
2) The Big 12, ACC and Big East, and ultimately the Big 10, need to do something big or all of college sports is going to become a regional entertainment enterprise based in the southeast, at which point the entire product will likely fail.
3) People focus so much on which of the ACC or Big 12 are going to get raided next by the P2. I think the answer is more obvious than that. If the SEC took about 4 schools from the Big 10, the Big 10 would drop to 4th among the football leagues, while the SEC would become permanently dominant over every other league. Why wouldn't the SEC do that?
1) I think the window to be added has closed, and neither the ACC or Big 12 will add UConn alone. UConn does nothing to address the strategic problems those leagues face, and even if UConn played for free in the league, the incremental money from one more team does not really move the needle for either league's members.
2) The Big 12, ACC and Big East, and ultimately the Big 10, need to do something big or all of college sports is going to become a regional entertainment enterprise based in the southeast, at which point the entire product will likely fail.
3) People focus so much on which of the ACC or Big 12 are going to get raided next by the P2. I think the answer is more obvious than that. If the SEC took about 4 schools from the Big 10, the Big 10 would drop to 4th among the football leagues, while the SEC would become permanently dominant over every other league. Why wouldn't the SEC do that?
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2011
- Messages
- 6,090
- Reaction Score
- 27,415
This week, the ACC has 1 school in the men's basketball AP Top 25, Duke. The ACC basketball tournament doesn't come close to selling out any more even when it's in Greensboro. First rounds attendance is usually 10k or less. With 15 schools, now 18, you only need to sell ~1k tickets per school to sell out. It's amazing how far that ACC basketball has fallen.
Imagine if a P2 conference took Duke, UNC, Clemson, and FSU, the ACC would become irrelevant in both basketball and football. Why wouldn't the SEC grab those schools and dominate from the mid Atlantic to Florida to Texas?
Imagine if a P2 conference took Duke, UNC, Clemson, and FSU, the ACC would become irrelevant in both basketball and football. Why wouldn't the SEC grab those schools and dominate from the mid Atlantic to Florida to Texas?
Jetskies
Jets + Huskies Fandom = Character Building
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2022
- Messages
- 1,033
- Reaction Score
- 4,427
y'know ... i used to say an ACC invite would be an automatic "yes" from UConn (or at least a yes from me), but with what I'm reading here in the BY about the ACC's choices, I am starting to get convinced that the ACC is 100% a timebomb, that is no longer a matter of "if", but "when" it explodes. I am starting to think that UConn may even say "no thanks" to the ACC invite if it comes too close to the expiration of their current media deal, and their important schools are still unhappy (UNC, Duke, UVA, FSU, Clemson)
We will get stuck in an AAC 2.0 situation again.
I'll take Big East + Independence all day, before that mess.
Can you imagine a relegated ACC, where the few schools remaining have to pull a Pac12 to stay alive, and start inviting richmond, butler, buffalo, Eastern Michigan, Ball state, and Delaware, to join them? I'd end my UConn fanhood in that exact moment.
"It's been nice cheering with y'all. Good luck to us all." - Me in 2030, probably
but its the truth. Regardless of 'basketball stronk' football was always leading the bus. i do think basketball got underrated over time but that's the way it goes.
@Jetskies since I don't want to multiquote, this is where i've been since the B12 started to talk about uconn because it all made sense. Either the b12 or the b10 are raiding the ACC.
.-.
irony is that if they remained hyperregional as an 8 school league they'd probably be doing a lot better.
KryHavok
Oh yes, UConn IS a BB blueblood!
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2023
- Messages
- 1,211
- Reaction Score
- 5,747
To be fair, the same can be said for the Big East, but I get your point and don't want to misrepresent what you wrote. Imagine if the All Cretins Crew picked UConn all those years ago, we'd be doubling their Top25 right now.
Watching that conference coming apart is like enjoying a telenovela on Univision, can't completely understand what they're doing, but the visuals are nice: ay, que lastima.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2014
- Messages
- 20,098
- Reaction Score
- 34,060
The only ACC i envision UConn getting invited to is a heavily pilfered shell of the ACC and we'd still take it. It's all in the name. The PAC 12 imploded leaving only OSU and WSU. Instead of just dying, they poached the MWC so the new PAC is really mostly the MWC. Our version of the ACC would be UConn, cuse, bcu, pitt, louisville, wake, smu, cal. If lucky, duke, Va Tech, Ga Tech, NC State. And even if those programs get poached, the ACC would poach the AAC with USF, Memphis, Tulane, etc. The ACC would still be a far better landing spot than Indie. I think.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 3,571
- Reaction Score
- 12,383
With pay to play now above the table and with the sheer size and power of Big10 members, they will ultimately surpass the SEC (and maybe we're already seeing the beginning of it).
one season in football is not a trend
nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,925
- Reaction Score
- 40,376
Then the Big 10 raids the SEC for Florida, Georgia, Texas and Alabama. Either way, there is no way both leagues survive if a P2 emerges. And there is no reason to go after any other league's members because those leagues are already dead.
The predatory nature of conference realignment is phenomenally short-sighted. This is the equivalent of the 10 biggest market NFL teams trying to box out the rest of the league. I guess it would work in the short term to hurt the small market teams, but on the other side of that move would be a league that no one cares about.
.-.
So much for people not caring ---
ESPN has made history with its recent announcement of record-breaking viewership for the Cotton Bowl. With the expansion of the College Football Playoff to 12 teams, ESPN’s $7.8 billion media rights deal is already proving to be a wise investment. Last week, Ohio State defeated Texas 28-14 in one of the most thrilling games of the season. The game averaged 20.6 million viewers, with a peak of 22.7 million, making it the most-watched Cotton Bowl in history.
ESPN Breaks Records with Cotton Bowl Viewership Amid NCAA Playoff Excitement
ESPN has made history with its recent announcement of record-breaking viewership for the Cotton Bowl. With the expansion of the College Football Playoff to 12 teams, ESPN’s $7.8 billion media rights deal is already proving to be a wise investment. Last week, Ohio State defeated Texas 28-14 in one of the most thrilling games of the season. The game averaged 20.6 million viewers, with a peak of 22.7 million, making it the most-watched Cotton Bowl in history.
Well I don’t give a sheet which is all that matters
Jetskies
Jets + Huskies Fandom = Character Building
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2022
- Messages
- 1,033
- Reaction Score
- 4,427
so.... AAC 2.0?
better than independent..... hmmmmm.
I don't see it. I just don't see it.
UConn Basketball must be protected, I was told - are we willing to take the risk AGAIN in a fake version of the ACC? I thought the whole reason we left AAC was to stop playing memphis/USF/ECU and those guys. That conference sucked and it still brings me no excitement to hear those brands.
I really really don't know about that........
I don't want our school to be desperate enough to find a football home, that we ruin the entire Ath Dept's prestige/income with 1 bad decision. I get what you're saying, but if I'm holding the keys, I say no thanks to ACC unless they have a new deal in place.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2014
- Messages
- 20,098
- Reaction Score
- 34,060
The ACC currently has 18 members so it's not like we would join with only a handful of ACC programs. I'm thinking it would be at least 8-10 current programs so no, not AAC 2.0. And if it should come to pass, the ACC would likely have a war chest of exit fees to help financially. And it would still most likely be the 4th best football conference. We'd be a Yes, no question.
Jetskies
Jets + Huskies Fandom = Character Building
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2022
- Messages
- 1,033
- Reaction Score
- 4,427
we'd be a yes, I agree.
I just don't think it'd be a safe long-term decision.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2014
- Messages
- 20,098
- Reaction Score
- 34,060
Drake Toll is the Big 12 guy. First he crapped on UConn saying we didn't have enough revenue. Then he was on board with UConn when Yormark really wanted UConn. I follow him just to see if anything is going on with the Big 12 and UConn. It's just one year so I don't think there is much separation between the Big 12 and ACC. I do think FSU is in big danger of having its brand doing a David Caruso career impersonation.
I don't like that he says the Big 12 and ACC should work together to combat the P2 unless there is more of a basketball focus.
I don't like that he says the Big 12 and ACC should work together to combat the P2 unless there is more of a basketball focus.
.-.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2011
- Messages
- 56,399
- Reaction Score
- 215,351
This board is bonkers, now we have posters saying the SEC will go away.
it might happen... but I really don't think it will
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 29,781
- Reaction Score
- 47,363
I haven’t seen anyone saying the SEC will go away but it does seem like the balance of power has shifted in the B1G’s favor.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 9,172
- Reaction Score
- 27,222
Then there is P1! Who is the next target, the NFL, lol.
nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,925
- Reaction Score
- 40,376
Either the P2 cools it, and recognizes that they are best off with a broader appeal of their product beyond just the upper midwest and southeast, or the product becomes a P1, at which point the NFL and NBA will rip it apart.
The existence of college sports has been the biggest obstacle to a widely followed minor league for either the NBA or NFL. If college sports effectively turns itself into a minor league that is trying to compete with the NFL and NBA, it will be pretty easy to crush, and will make an NFL or NBA operated minor league more appealing too fans.
.-.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2011
- Messages
- 1,798
- Reaction Score
- 6,983
I agree that the NFL and NBA are unstoppable forces, but I don't know if it's as easy as you think for them to fully crush big time college football and basketball.
First, minor leagues are just not financially successful anywhere and certainly not in the US. Baseball can be cute and nostalgic, but the teams don't make much money and pay their players next to nothing. Nobody watches the G League and I guess the NFL tried unsuccessfully with NFL Europe. Also, while they don't have NBA/NFL support, I don't think the NBA/NFL have gone out of their ways to try to crush football and basketball minor leagues, but they have all failed or remain tiny.
NCAA football and basketball are just an odd concept that works. Alums and locals love their schools and they are paying and supporting their players significantly more than a typical minor league.
The only way the NFL/NBA could crush college football/basketball is to take all of their players and fans. Fans have just never shown a love for a lesser league, so why would they show up in the same numbers for games, buy all the gear, etc. for a minor league team? And it would be a huge financial hit to the franchises to finance minor league teams at the same support level. Compare a minor league team's facilities and other perks to what top colleges provide their athletes, and now they are making hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more). And if the NBA/NFL used their monopoly to crush state schools, I can't see local politicians, courts, congress being pleased. The NFL crushed the USFL and lost a $3 judgement. I'm not sure the same would happen if they crushed Beloved State U.
I think the P2 (or whatever number we end with) will be careful not to poke the bears too much. If there can only be one survivor (pro or college), the NFL/NBA wins, but it won't be easy.
EDIT: I do agree that the P2 can wind up significantly harming themselves if they use their power to crush other schools and conferences. Their power is partially in being the top of the heap. Fans of lower teams still watch. Transform that heap to just the P2 and they will lose a lot of eyeballs and the NFL/NBA could end them a lot easier.
Last edited:
nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,925
- Reaction Score
- 40,376
If you believe that fans of all the G5, mid-majors and Big East, Big 12 and ACC are easily transferable to becoming fans of a Big 10 or SEC school, than sure, the P2 can survive and thrive. That is very unlikely to happen. More likely, as teams are cut out of competing in football and basketball, the fans of those schools will simply lose interest. As the overall market shrinks, even some of the fans of the surviving programs will wander off because why would they care about a championship in a sport that was rapidly losing fans? At some point, the sport hits a doom loop from which it can not recover, as shrinking fan interest begets more shrinking fan interest.
College sports are unique because such a large portion of the population is connected to the programs. Take that away, and it is just another minor league, but without the support of the major league programs.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2011
- Messages
- 1,798
- Reaction Score
- 6,983
I may have added my edit after you saw my post. I agree that if we really drop to a P2 (or they merge to a P1) that can change a lot of what I said. They'd lose that uniqueness with a large portion of the country, including the entire northeast that didn't attend one of those schools.
Jetskies
Jets + Huskies Fandom = Character Building
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2022
- Messages
- 1,033
- Reaction Score
- 4,427
I watch UConn football because I love UConn. And I love football. I would not go to the rent to watch the Hartford generals or whatever a jets/patriots minor league team in CT would be called. Even if they were better skill-wise than UConn. I think this whole movement is losing sight of things.
The P2 need to chill out and stop trying to milk CFB for every last cent, kicking out everyone else who isn't up to their (subjective) standard. i.e. UConn, OR State, WA State, etc.
After all, there is no P2 without the P4 and there is no P4 without the G5. Keep the beauty and charm of the college game. Libraries and quads, fall leaves on the ground, 55 degrees and sunny. Yes please
Last edited:
Exactly.
.-.